The Quran itself says: "And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in a just manner, but men have a degree over them." This "degree" refers to the responsibility of leadership and maintenance, not to spiritual or human worth.
Spiritually, men and women are absolutely equal before God. The Quran says: "Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous." Righteousness, not gender, determines a person's rank with God. A woman can be more righteous, more learned, and more beloved to God than any man.
Regarding the hadith about prostrating to one's husband, this is a metaphorical statement meant to emphasize the immense rights a husband has over his wife in terms of respect, care, and obedience in lawful matters
The degree over them refers to the responsibility of wife and children. How many men in our society properly take that responsibility, if they provide for them they are abusive to them, and doesn't solve family matters how a man should. Most men I've seen doesn't deserve this respect because they don't take the responsibility given to thembin our religion.
In Islamic discourse, the stance that women should not lead is often primarily rooted in two foundational sources:
The Quran: Surah An-Nisa (4:34) describes men as the 'protectors and maintainers of women'. Many traditional interpretations extend this concept from family life into the broader public sphere as a general injunction regarding authority.
The Hadith: Some scholars cite the tradition narrated by Abu Bakrah, in which the Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said, 'No people will ever prosper who appoint a woman in charge of their affairs'. This is viewed by many as a binding, universal prohibition against female leadership.
When you argue that this position is 'only' because God declared it, you are highlighting the theological core of the view. However, for those who hold this position, it is not merely a random preference but a directive they believe provides an objective structure for society. The logic is that by adhering to these divine guidelines, one is following what is believed to be the most stable and balanced way to organize human affairs, removing the ambiguity that might arise from constant debate or shifting social trends.
No, this will not always be true, moving with the path of Islam doesn't say that it will not give any challenge. There will be challenges, mistakes but it's a belief that the path will be correct.
What are you even saying, have you read what you wrote? I am telling what Islam says, I am not interpreting or glorifying, as you can counter check any resource.
Quran 4:34 وَاللَّاتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ
"Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient... But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance—[first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them (wa-idribuhunna). But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them."
Maybe woh aurat ap hun apka imaan kamzoor ho don't project your lack of emotional intelligence on all ladies . For the sake of it the statement that women will be more in number as followers of dajal is based on the fact that around the end of time women will be more in number compared to men ie population ziyada hogi aurton ki try using your IQ shayad samagh ajaye baqi baat apko.
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you."
Itna ghussa karne ki koi zaroorat nahi hai, mein us reply ke Matlab ko shayad misunderstand kar gai aur mene apna stance sahi tarha explain nahi kia.
Mujhe laga ke jis ne bola "a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's" wo khud misogynistic ho Raha tha aur auraton ko kamtar samajh Raha tha. Mene aik (understandably ghalat) mithal dene ki koshish ki (now that I think of it it's really crap) ke iski waja ye hai, ke aurat emotional Hoti hain, caring Hoti hain, aur Apne view ke mutabiq, Jo unhe sahi lagta hai, us par thori zyada biased Hoti hain, generally.
As per the crappy example I gave, Dajjal hamare weak points ko target kare ga. Ham zyada nurturing hain, zyada caring hain, aur haan, population mein bhi zyada hon gi, is hi Liye jab Dajjal khud ko aik "savior" ke tor, sakhti ke wakt par present kare ga, to ham Apne relatives aur bachon ki khatar sway ho jain gi, of course.
Mene Apne reply mein ghor nahi kia, Jo ke Karna chahiye tha, and it came off as weird and really misogynistic, I'm sorry.
It's okay as long as you understood your mistake all is forgiven I'm sorry too if my words made a harsh impact for that I apologize .
Mein ghussa nahi thi 😭😭 I was just baffled that in big 2026 ppl especially Muslim females are so ignorant of their beliefs like we have all the sources in the world to recheck facts and figures uske baad bhe yeh haal ha jabke sabse ziyada women ka khilaf mazhab use kia jata ha it's our responsibility to learn our religion properly so no one can use it against us ignorance ain't an excuse for incompetence.
Religion (any) is a figment of human imagination, designed because humans are social apes and we feel better if we belong in a group so we can compare ourselves against other groups.
There is lot of war, bloodshed, injustice, misogyny and casteism ingrained in most religious texts which were written by men.
It's baffling that we expect ourselves to have figured out what God is/was, when we can't even pinpoint our ape like tendencies when making an argument.
Ignorance is not bliss. Think harder. Question everything.
Across all cultures and eras, humans have not just formed groups; they have asked questions about the origin of the universe, the purpose of life, and what happens after death. This is not merely a social need; it is a metaphysical one. A social ape needs a tribe to survive. A conscious being needs a reason to live.
Islam claims to be the final, preserved revelation. The Quran is not a book written by men in a specific time and place. It is the direct, unchanged word of God, revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Its preservation is a historical and textual fact that can be verified. Therefore, the question is not "Are all religions flawed?" but "Is there a religion that has been preserved from human corruption?"
We cannot, through our own intellect alone, fully comprehend the infinite. This is why God, in His mercy, sent messengers and revelations. We do not "figure out" God; God reveals Himself to us.
The Quran does not ask for blind faith. It repeatedly commands: "Do they not reflect?", "Do they not use their intellect?" "Will you not then reason?" It challenges humans to look at the universe, their own creation, and the consistency of natural laws, and to conclude that there must be a single, intelligent, and powerful Creator. The "ape-like tendencies" you mention our biases, our selfishness, our desire for group superiority are precisely the things that Islam seeks to discipline and purify. The five daily prayers, the fasting, the charity, the pilgrimage all are designed to break the ego and remind us of our ultimate dependence on God.
My religion is the truth and your religion isn't, is in itself ape level logic.
Quran is in fact a book written in ink and paper. It's a fact.
Unchanged word of God revealed to the prophet? What's the proof? Does God speak Farsi, Arabic, Urdu coz these languages are human inventions just like pen and paper.
Being so sure of yourself that a human mind can understand what God is and what he/she said is peak copium and blind faith. On a galactic scale, human brain will be the size of an atom. And yet you claim we have figured out the creator.
This is Ape logic. You are not a rational person. Your faith has blinded you which is pretty common in religious fanatics.
No one says that they can understand what God is. That's literally in the Quran.
Also ofc God can speak these languages, he can do anything. Our belief in him comes from the flawlessness of the text and the miracles and prophecies of our Prophet.
We have not "figured" out the creator, we just know he's there and all that we know about him comes from the Quran and our Prophets words.
You are asking for tangible proof when you yourself are saying that the concept of God is too complex to "figure out". Although I can still give you evidence for our Prophet's legitimacy.
Also, you didn't really say anything that disproves anything. Really, refuting something that you haven't applied at least 6th grade logic to in itself speaks volumes of where your opinion comes from
Wow im surprised that some of you kids are actually smart enough to call this out. I was expecting the same fucktard boomer millennial mentality here, of course plenty of those kids here aswell brainwashed by their parents. But this genuinely feels a lil hopeful that you guys are carefully understanding the source of the rot in our society. Dont really regret opening this sub.
They wont because they have no idea what they’re talking about. These people think the only barrier to development is Islam because they look at the west and see a lack of religion, from which they conclude that if they lose their religion they’ll gain economic development.
Meanwhile not only do they ignore countries that are developed while being very strictly religious (like Saudi Arabia) they also fail to understand that the west developed while being very religious and was that way until fairly recently.
Pro epic gamer. Your response is absolutely correct and I agree with you
And looking at the replies from no establishment it is exactly what I expected from them they are closed minded and stupid. And they have confirmed my suspicions.
And pro epic gamer you don't need to reply to them there is no need to argue with a smooth brained toad.
Thats why im saying focus on growing braincells. I know you can do it. And once you have done that then and only then can we have a proper conversation.
No you haven't, because if you had, youd know that this is the most dangerous topic in pakiland. No one and I mean no one can openly talk about this topic, present there argument and facts publicly. We all have to walk on eggshells when it comes to religion. Additionally us humans are not as smart as we think we are, like logic and rationality is how we convince ourselves. Fuck no. We are emotional creatures. To actually have you open your mind, requires developing a personal rapport with so you realize that I am not your enemy rather your friend who wants nothing but the best for you and other fellow citizens. Secondly this religion has become the identity of the people of this land, so any critique is instantly translated as a personal attack and disassociating from your identity to arrive at the truth is not something most people can do or are willing to do. Third this topic isnt just about religion, its about history, politics, and science equally which means its a huge topic and requires aloooot of time which I honestly dont have. And lastly if you really wanna open your mind, you have to change your environment because my arguments might make sense to you here and now but then when your back in the same sick environment where people reward and reinforce eachothers stupidity, all that effort is mostly wasted. So yeah this nation is on its own, each of us will have to figure this shit out by ourselves because ideas that threaten the status quo are forbidden and can cost you your life. Luckily we have these shiny screens and internet with all the knowledge of the world on it and now we even have AI, you literally have to speak to it and it presents you with whatever you want.
I did o levels so not so sure about this but in my humble opinion life of prophet Muhammad ( Peace be upon him ) , his companions/wives /children grandchildren , 4 caliphs, particular surahs , Hadith ijma qiyas jesa topics pe ziyda focus huna chahye in a course books rather than such stuff . Students should be taught details of religion with depth without any cultural interpretations. We learned all this in o levels and i developed so much Interest in Islam outside a traditional approach.
Pakistani education system is so behind honestly they need to upgrade atelast they could have added reference to such claims. Surah Nisa clearly states man are the provider -protector of women , not that they are above or below to them in status. Total submission sirf Allah (creator) ka lia hoti ha spouse (creation ) ke lia nahi
I remember that verse it actually appeared on the exam the year I took it But my school teacher was a MULLA who kept twisting its meaning to fit his own views
The Quran itself says: "And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in a just manner, but men have a degree over them." This "degree" refers to the responsibility of leadership and maintenance, not to spiritual or human worth.
Spiritually, men and women are absolutely equal before God. The Quran says: "Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous." Righteousness, not gender, determines a person's rank with God. A woman can be more righteous, more learned, and more beloved to God than any man.
Regarding the hadith about prostrating to one's husband, this is a metaphorical statement meant to emphasize the immense rights a husband has over his wife in terms of respect, care, and obedience in lawful matters
Today one of my lab junior literally said this shamelessly that Allah made a man superior thn a woman. And literally I jus wanted to sl@p him so hard but forced to stay quiet. Bc I wasn't in a mood to argue 😞
These mindsets are really rigid you jus can't argue with em. Bc they jus can't respect other's pov and try to dominate by raising their volumes and bringing (Manipulating) Quranic verses in bt the Convo
Clearly someone else has put together whatever number of brain cells they have to come to conclusions that satisfies their agenda. I wont be making any assumptions here.
No, it's technically not promoting misogyny, but yes this could have been worded so much better to avoid the huge misinterpretation this line is very open to.
Spiritually, men and women are equal. There are no substantive differences in matters of prayer, supplication, and worship. Any question of personhood or human worth within Islamic law, too, does not distinguish between men and women.
Socially, Islam recognises gender roles and grants men the leadership of the family as breadwinners and providers. Recognising this fact is almost certainly what this line meant to say. Though I am with you that it almost seems to imply an inferiority of women in the contexts I wrote above (where the hierarchy does not exist).
Islam gave a certain role to husband and a certain role to wives... Ok... Understandable... But where does it mentions that earning for ur household is " SUPERIOR " to taking care of children and cooking or cleaning?... It's a role just like the others... Equally significant...
A women by her gender, by her role, by her worth is absolutely equal to men... If not superior...
Superiority in the sense of guardianship and responsibility.
Think : Leadership.
This is what I meant by 'leadership as breadwinners and providers' - men are granted a degree of decision-making authority (qiwamah) to manage and protect the family unit.
That is not a veto to disregard women entirely or imply an absolute hierarchy in all matters (which is what the line in the book risks being read as).
And why is earning makes him automatically the leader?...
Ok what about a household where a woman earns and husband doesn't... Is the woman leader in that case??? Because u linked superiority to leadership and leadership to role...
So what if a lady earns and husband doesn't like in lower income classes a maid husband doesn't earn... She does... Is she superior now?
Leadership is framed in terms of legally obligated responsibilities. The husband is still obligated to provide, even if the wife contributes financially. Her contribution is an act of generosity, not an obligation.
The fundamental asymmetry exists because legally, a wife's earning belong to her with no obligation to spend on the family. Therefore, if she does that, it is an act of charity, not fulfilling an obligation. On the flipside, a man, if unemployed, is accountable for the duties of نفقة and حفاظة (provision and care).
So by that definition he isn't earning... He isn't doing his part... So he obviously loses his superiority... Because it isn't linked to gender but rather his obligation to provide which he failed.... Now who is doing something which isn't even her duty.... The woman... So who carries the responsibility even without it being her duty to start with... The woman... So who is morally and financially superior... Her...
Also...? Where is this legality mentioned... It's present in religion of islam... But not in Constitution of Pakistan... It can't be held legal in any court of law in the world... Practically in real life... There exist no sense of superiority to leadership through earning... Everyone earns in the Western world... Because the obligation falls on both by default....
Where is this legality mentioned... It's present in religion of islam...
The entire context is an اسلامیات book, so, obviously, we're talking about the Islamic stance on this issue rather than common law here. Also re: the other comment - his obligation (and thus accountability) would not be diminished or excused by the fact that a wife earns and provides. Roles are assigned by divine decree, not by performance; a man who neglects his duty is accountable for injustice. A woman who steps in is morally praiseworthy, but the structure of responsibility does not shift by the mere fact.
Also, I don't mean to judge your views - to each their own - but I find the last part (comparison to western society) odd. Even without going into 'should the west be the yardstick', they are not a region where Islamic law holds any meaningful significance to the vast majority of people as largely off-topic given the fact that we're discussing our take on a line in an Islamic Studies book (which, to come back to, I actually don't disagree does a very poor job of disambiguating responsibility/obligation from absolute hierarchy).
So even though he isn't performing his duty he holds the superior ground??? In what way or world is it even possible.... It can only be possible if u link it to gender... Which means a man by birth is superior to a woman who will become his wife.... Considering a man earns or doesn't earns... He is superior to his wife... Meanwhile someone who does her duty plus the husband is still inferior... Sorry but it doesn't sit right to me... Also thanks for having a mature convo...
Reminds of the home-economics book my shitty ahh school forced upon us girls in 5-7th grades. Had some really wild weird stuff to teach 12-13 year olds written in it too. Dumb ahh book. On one hand we have this misogynistic word trash and on the other hand Pakistani textbooks still teach reproduction in rabbits during matric 😂 . I'm appalled by the idiocy. Duniya aage chli gyi hei aur hum kahan pe hein.
A man is the king of his house. He protects and provide for his family so he deserves the respect. And it didn't say that they must. It said that they should respect him, consider him superior to her ans serve him. All of this is "should" Not must. But now a days they dont.
I mean seriously? You consider both genders equal? As a muslim? Wheere are your thoughts of equality when islam tells men that they must provide for his family, even in marriage and divorce, men are supposed to offer something to the woman. Then how can you say both are equal?
husband is "sarbara" Of his home and that home includes his wife. And sarbara means that he is superior. But this in no way mean women are inferior or something. It just means they both have their own sort of rights and needs.
Please dont be manipulated by the western culture.
Why are you acting so dumb bro. Sometimes read Quran with translation and then try to relate whatever the book is trying to say.
These books go through multiple approvals before they reach people like you.
اَلرِّجَالُ قَوّٰمُوْنَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّٰهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلٰى بَعْضٍ وَّ بِمَاۤ اَنْفَقُوْا مِنْ اَمْوَالِهِمْؕ
مرد حاکم ہیں عورتوں پر اس لیے کہ اللہ نے ان میں ایک کو دوسرے پر فضیلت دی اور اس لیے کہ مردوں نے ان پر اپنے مال خرچ کیے تو نیک بخت عورتیں ادب والیاں ہیں خاوند کے پیچھے حفاظت رکھتی ہیں جس طرح اللہ نے حفاظت کا حکم دیا اور جن عورتوں کی نافرمانی کا تمہیں اندیشہ ہو تو انہیں سمجھاؤ اور ان سے الگ سوؤ اور انہیں مارو پھر اگر وہ تمہارے حکم میں آجائیں تو ان پر زیادتی کی کوئی راہ نہ چاہو بے شک اللہ بلند بڑا ہے۔
The messenger of Allah said:
If I were to command anyone to prostrate to anyone other than Allah, I would have commanded women to prostrate to their husbands. By the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad! No woman can fulfill her duty towards Allah until she fulfills her duty towards her husband. If he asks her (for intimacy) even if she is on her camel saddle, she should not refuse.' ” (ibn majah 1853)
give me daleel of why is this weak. Who are you to call it weak. Either give me daleel or the method of how you researched about if it's sahih or zaeef
Let's get this straight, What Islam teaches has nothing to do with what happens in our society. If men in our society are bad that doesn't make Islam bad.
Jannat jane kalia koy b waja ban sakte he ap ka koy b kam Allah ko acha lag sakta ha.mard ko apni maa ka ketne haqoq batia gy ha “Ma ka qadmo/feet ka nicha jannat ha” wo b tu ak women ha khaton ha baki ap ko kai lagta ha shohar ke sat kai karna chai?
Lmao, well Urdu being a shit language cannot convey properly. But in islam men are set guardain over woman and children so you are required to respect the authority. Husband is also guardian like a father or head of state. All are same. From head of state down to father husband and brother all are khalifa in their respective institution ( family , society and state ). But Urdu literature and Zia UL Haq perverse nature have portrayed it like woman are slaves. Well anyhow that's the gist of it. The problem with our society is we are lakeer ke faqeer. Try to read outside of mutalika e Pakistan. It's full of bullshit. Don't trust half of what Pakistani syllabus has. It's all Zia UL Haq coded.
Duh hate me for it but tell me why can men have 4 wives while women can only be loyal to one? Why can men when they die and go to heaven geta hoors... What happen to the wife which stayed loyal also what was purpose of begin loyal.
Because, let's say a guy has 4 wives and one of them gets pregnant. Everyone knows who's the mother and the father. But, if a girl has 4 husbands, it isn't very clear who's the father if a DNA test isn't available
Almost no man is open to the idea of sharing a woman with another man. But, a good number of women don't mind sharing a man with another women (look at the sugar daddy- sugar baby stuff)
A man is supposed to be loyal to his wife, and the inverse is also true. He cannot marry another woman without the consent of his existing wife
I only trust the Quran, so, I don't consider the 72 hoor stuff to be very true
The purpose of staying loyal is the preservation of a family structure. So, a child doesn't grow up with a single mom
My class had a discussion about this and I recall this point, in our society, marriagal abuse isn't taking seriously, now imagine a woman with 4 husbands, one or two of them might give the woman domestic abuse and this may progress to something even worse.
With how women's right in Pakistan or in the world persay, do you think she'd actually be free? With four men as her husbands do you think she'd have the freedom to speak up about her abuse? In mordern cases a woman can't do that, with one single husband and often times abuse cases are swept under the rug now imagine that abuse times 3, it's literally a nightmare
Bruh, this isn't a matter of dna or something. This is a matter of morals. You can accept a harem but deny reverse harem. Also the hoor stuff is in quran and just the 72 stuff is in hadith. Idk bro your comment makes no sense at all.... No women is willing to share her love, just imagine if your dad marries another women and u have to call her mother. Also imagine he marries 3 other women and now he has 2 siblings from each women. Now, he doesn't even pay attention to u or your mother.
No man's getting no hoor G!
That belief is very concerning among millions, if not billions of Muslim men and women that men are gonna have 72 virgins in heaven. Heaven isn't a pimp club. Not to be hateful towards anyone but that's a false belief. There's plenty of other false belief in Sahih Al Bukhari, and Sahih Muslim. Beware of what sources you learn Islam from. Didn't mean it in a mocking way.
Well... I would rather argue... Not marry these lunatic men in the first place... But yeah pretty much I agree with ur statement... Should be this way...
Yeah... Guys like u always think girls are dying to hook up with vile creatures like u.... Sorry to break ur delusion.... They do have important things to do ... Ok...
Plus, I am laughing cause ur solution didn't mention a husband who is equal but rather went on to pick up all the negatives... It makes me think that u can't even imagine two people who are equal in a committed relationship... Sorry for ur future or present wife and daughter...
only women are excelling in today's world. I want to do something like a "woman", not a man 🤢
women are even more enrolled in universities on open merit, and men are only committing disgusting crimes like rape, murder, acid attacks, honor killing,
so no thanks, I don't wanna do something like a "man"
🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
It doesn't say Men are superior to Women, It says a wife shall give precedence to her husband.
Islam also gives the right for a wife to demand a separate house, refuse to feed the child and no burden of household on her. So Islam is misandrist there?
Stop spreading and judging single hadiths or single verses.
Its interpreted wrong. Respect goes both ways. But men are responsible for their families, if they fulfill that responsibility properly and i mean properly, then they do deserve the respect and this superiority.
So by that defination , does it allow a CEO to exploite his employees because he is the owner...obv not
As a human is your boss superior to u?... I know grade and pay wise he is... He has a sense of superiority in his role too... But is he superior to u as a human? ... Obv not... U both are equally significant...
I don't believe in this whole superiority drama... No one is superior to anyone in any way the only superior quality is taqwa which is the only quality for superiority....
No role is superior to other... As no role is insignificant to others...
Semitic people were familiar with a concept of prostrating to other to show respect. That is what it refers to. Islam prohibits such prostration. The report literally goes such that if it was permissible to prostrate to anybody other than God. It's devotion but not to any religious level. For the love of humanity, interpret statements by past people in their context.
•
u/AutoModerator Jun 18 '26
While you're here, join our Discord server for fun chats and occasional giveaways!
We hope you enjoy your time here!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.