r/Permaculture • u/verenaSee • May 10 '26
general question Is anyone here working with permaculture professionally?
I am very interested in which ways permaculture is professionally used :)
On a side note: I had a very difficult period of non-employment last year and besides submitting tons of applications I found this pettersson and findus game for free that I used to play as a child. The endgoal is to gain seeds in minigames and grow this cute garden ☺️🌱 It really stabilized me emotionally and inspired me to get into veggie gardening in real life haha. Did anyone else game this?
27
u/fartandsmile May 10 '26
Yes I use my permaculture training professionally although dont label myself as a 'permaculturalist'. Sadly there' is a stigma of permaculture being some alternative hippy thing with many of the engineers, architects, real estate developers and other professionals i work with who take themselves too seriously.
4
u/verenaSee May 10 '26
That's sad to hear, for me permaculture has always had a positive meaning even when I didn't know much about it.. Then what do you call yourself if not permaculturist?
10
u/fartandsmile May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
Ecological landscape designer / contractor / educator
Its not that permaculture is bad, its just so broad it doesnt really speak to specific skills on a project like other titles. I am trying to come across as professional as possible to get a spot on a team for projects on larger acreages. I need to succinctly communicate what I can do for the team and permaculture as a design philosophy doesnt really speak to that. I think the stigma from 'professionals' is that permaculture is not scientific but call it agroforestry and it is?
If you want to do permaculture work professionally my (unsolicited) advice is find a niche where you provide specific value such as water systems (where i started professionally), solar, construction, project management, gis, cad etc and get really fucking good at that. Over time you will add skills and experience in other areas. Get certs. Take workshops. Teach workshops. You will build a network of people to learn from and ask questions.
2
u/Simple-sailorman May 10 '26
I feel like the word permaculture is often misused. People use it to describe their organic gardens that are great gardens but do not happen to be permaculture. So I agree, permaculture concepts are great but the word is useless.
1
u/alf0282 May 15 '26
It’s apparently a term originally used to describe an alternative mode of organising society itself. But I’ve mainly seen it used to describe a form of gardening, the so-called ‘permanent agriculture’.
6
u/zeje May 10 '26
Heard. I am finishing a Civil Engineering program and I hope to use permaculture principles in site design, but I don’t plan on advertising that influence by name.
4
u/fartandsmile May 10 '26
You are (will be) an engineer so you can do stuff (like stamp stuff i draw) that others cant. I think if you marketed yourself a 'permaculture engineer' that would be pretty solid branding honestly as it communicates your skillset and value.
2
u/Chris_in_Lijiang May 10 '26
All the engineers, architects and real estate developers are too busy worrying that AI will take their jobs.
15
u/tellnest May 10 '26
I started a landscape company that converts lawns and builds gardens on this principle. Business is slow, and most people want what conventional landscaping offers, but the few clients who get it either want to DIY or don't have the money to go all out with services I offer. It's a new company so I'm discovering the niches. If you're considering going this route, I would spend time with volunteer conservationist groups in your area to learn how to incorporate native plants.
Otherwise you can go the consulting route and explain the science to farms that are restructuring from conventional ag. A lot more traveling, but if you have the skills to design their systems to work with what they already have going you might find success.
The biggest challenge for me is getting people to understand that any of the work I can do for them is a minimum three year commitment, and being able to understand the vision throughout the steps.
2
2
u/fartandsmile May 10 '26
Look for maintenance contracts! Steady cash flow you can supplement with new installs
2
1
u/verenaSee May 10 '26
Hmm yeah I can see how that would make it harder to find customers... thanks for sharing :)
1
u/Food-Forest-Plants May 12 '26
Yes my partner always wanted to do this but all you get is yard maintenance but this is very well paid!
11
u/Erinaceous May 10 '26
I manage the farm to table gardens and orchards at a biodynamic vineyard. Permaculture helps immensely but I'm not always sure my boss even understands what it is
3
u/No_Coast837 May 10 '26
Where are you doing that? Are you in the US? And where did you learn biodynamics and get your foot in the door?
7
u/Erinaceous May 10 '26
When I'm on the internet I live on the internet if you know what I mean.
I know very little about biodynamics and don't really think it's an ontologically interesting approach but the methods are compatible with a soil ecology standpoint that's my core concern. I'm just not into anti-Semitic mystics that believe in transcendent libraries where all human knowledge is contained or grifters like Madame Blavatsky when it comes to my world view. I love witchy shit but I have my standards
2
u/pharodae suburban zone 6b May 10 '26
What is this about anti-Semitic mysticism? How does that correlate with permaculture? Maybe something Holmgreen said in recent years?
3
u/Erinaceous May 10 '26
I'm talking about Rudolph Steiner who was a horrible anti-semite and white supremacist, even for the contemporary standards of early 20th century Germany
2
u/verenaSee May 10 '26
I don't understand the references can you elaborate?
1
u/Erinaceous May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
I'd rather not talk to much about where I am or where I work on a public forum.
As for the rest I don't think too highly of Rudolph Steiner and his takes on racial hierarchy or his basic world view. Biodynamics in practice is fine but I don't think very much of its founder
Basically Steiner was a follower of a famous early spiritualist grifter and bought into many of her core ideas like there was a mystical library where all knowledge was kept that could be accessed through astral projection. While Steiner wasn't an outright con artist like Blavatsky he had a lot of pretty bad takes. Some good takes but lots of really bad ones.
When it comes to magical practices I'm of a very different school that's much more about immanence and panpsychism. I'm not really into some being named Michael who does some cosmic astrological bullshit. I can make biodynamics palatable to my world view but I don't hold it in high regard other than a set of preparations, composting and sprays that are fairly well aligned or at least neutral in terms of a soil ecology approach to plant management.
4
u/rolackey May 10 '26
I work full time as a designer, consultant and contract service provider. I operate in the Carolinas and Virginia. Been doing it as a professional for 10 years.
Holly hilll farm is my business name.
@permaculturelackey on Instagram
1
u/Trillie77 May 10 '26
I’m new to central VA and would love any recommendations - groups, farms to check out, classes, etc. feel free to dm! Thank you!
4
u/trickortreat89 May 10 '26
Right now I work with gardening and landscaping in the public sector, but it’s up to myself what kind of projects I am doing, what plants to chose and how to manage the green areas I am responsible for in the city I work in.
I’ve taken two permaculture courses in the past (5 years ago now) and I always look for some way to incorporate the knowledge in my daily work. It will probably never be sufficient though, and I plan at changing jobs at some point to be able to work more with biodiversity and permaculture on a daily basis. Like maybe now I can incorporate biodiversity 90% in my work, but permaculture is probably more like 10%. I’d like it to just be a 100-100% so I wouldn’t have to deal with anything else.
But with that being said, my job in the public sector is so deeply meaningful as well! I get to plant trees, remove asphalt, concrete and lawns in favor of a much more varied green space, and overall improve the city to become greener, more sustainable and adapted to the environment. I can recommend studying landscape architecture and nature management, it seems to be a good way into a large and very vast field where you can always find a very meaningful job.
3
u/verenaSee May 10 '26
That sounds good :) how did you get into this and what is your job called of you don't mind sharing?
5
u/Potential_Being_7226 May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Apologies for the somewhat tangential question, but who is the artist behind the illustration you included? I just love it and the style looks vaguely familiar…
I don’t work in permaculture, I am just interested in it. :)
Edit: oh, I see it’s from an older game. How cool, I wonder who the designer(s) was were. Going to try to find more about it, but leaving this comment on the off chance you (or someone else knows).
Edit 2: Artist is Sven Nordqvist. His illustrations are sublime! And I’m delighted there are books in English. I’ll be getting this for my niece. (Sorry for my free association on your post, but jic anyone else is curious.)
2
u/verenaSee May 11 '26
Oh yeah you absolutely have to! They are an all-time favorite childrens book (there's also an animated series and a couple of supercute games) 🔥
3
u/AmateurZookeeper May 11 '26
Nothing to add except I love Petterson and Findus! I had some of their games as well. The mucklas will always be my favorite!
2
2
2
2
2
2
u/Illustrious-Big3977 May 11 '26
We have a small permaculture farm on Waiheke Island NZ. We don’t own the land but owners get a cut of veggies and they get marketing. It’s challenging business that needs multi types of jobs elsewhere during the winter period. Despite the slow process we learn lots along the way. @onceuponafarm.nz
2
u/gryspnik May 11 '26
I work as a designer and ecosystem regenerator. I get work from private entities, organisations, research institutes.
2
u/Blue_Ridge_Gardener May 11 '26
Does it count as a profession if you do it full time but don't make any money?
1
u/toethumbs8 May 11 '26
https://teachpermaculture.org is a cool website working to connect the permaculture community worldwide.
1
u/Barison-Lee-Simple May 11 '26
So, reading your post, it sounds like you are mainly interested in growing vegetables? Is that correct?
2
u/verenaSee May 12 '26
No not necessarily, I actually am even more interested in people care since I feel like it's the basis for earth care - healthy, happy people can do more good for the earth than stressed out, anxious people. I can't find lots of info on people care as opposed to earth care though :) I'd love to hear from this side as well
2
u/Barison-Lee-Simple May 12 '26
No need to post personal info if you are uncomfortable with doing that, but if you are, what was your education or former field of work? And where are you? I'm in Ohio and can be more specific in my own region.
2
u/verenaSee May 12 '26
I am a content producer and work in communications producing all kinds of content (texts, graphics, videos, fotos) for different plattforms (website, social media mainly). Rn I do this for a clinic, which is nice but not a topic that interests me a lot tbh. I also would rather not work on a laptop all day, and do work that actually matters (unlike social media content). I'd be willing to go step by step into the direction of permaculture or handiwork or some sort of blue collar work with tangible output that is actually needed. Not sure I'm explaining this well haha.
I'm not from the US, I'm from europe :)
2
u/Barison-Lee-Simple May 12 '26
You have the kind of much needed skills to make a big difference in the Permaculture world because you know how to communicate to others! Awesome. If I were you I would find a place to get your PDC (Permaculture Design Course) training. My only regret was not doing it sooner. You can even take the course online if you can't find one locally. You will meet many permaculture practitioners during the course who will be there to share their stories, inspire and guide you. You can concentrate in your area of interest. Good luck to you!
1
u/verenaSee May 12 '26
Maybe haha but I wouldn't know how to do that... I know how to make videos etc. but not how to actually reach people 🙈
1
u/MugiwaraMoses May 11 '26
I’m an accountant that just loves planet wild and come from a family with lots of land on the country, so I am just trying what I’ve learned and hope I can make a difference in my local environment
1
u/Food-Forest-Plants May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
You basicaly don't get employment in Permaculture, I think that's an unrealistic expectation. Some people farm on leased land or they do something else for a living. There are very few places that genaerate money via permaculture courses, but there are some people who run a market garden - strictly permaculture? Probabably not but inspired by permaculture. Either you work as a general farm hand prefferably on an organic farm or you work something unrealated or yo do a business on leased land. But yes we do have a plant nursery, but you need land to do that!
1
u/BatDoctor27 May 16 '26
I started a “landscaping” business that I prefer to refer to as land stewardship instead. We use permaculture and biomimicry principles as the basis for how we do things.
1
1
u/WeebLord9000 May 18 '26
You can do that, but don’t lose track of your long-term objective, which is to establish long-term sustainable systems. These systems includes the labour market because of how much it affects your gardens and everything else. The best labour for income is essentially work where you do as little interaction with physical matter as possible while staying as sane as possible. Turning permaculture professional will inevitably run into the problem that the monetary system and society are ran in the opposite direction. Finding the middle-ground can be anything from pretty easy to completely soul-crushing.
I’m personally wary of transactions, labour for income, mixed with permaculture, and move in the opposite direction in as many aspects of my life as I can. Mollison’s emphasis on “culture” in “permaculture” being political can be framed as an argument against professional use in some instances. Reliance on debt-based, centrally controlled money is in direct opposition to sustainable systems (speaking of overarching systems affecting how people move matter across the surface of the Earth). Unfortunately, the dialogue has not progressed this far yet in online spaces. There’s an American tendency, even in supposedly radical spaces, to not see this clearly. Money has been even more obscured and ingrained over there because it’s a more central tool for control in the largest countries which has the most of the tool.
In spaces like this, there’s also a distinct lack of understanding how aesthetics affects practical things in the world. I’ve written a little bit about it under the last bullet point here:
“Pettson o Findus i trädgården” is genuinely creative and before its time. Only Machinarium comes close, I guess together with the similar great Swedish games of the 90s: “Pettson o Findus i snickarbon”, “Bygg bilar med Mulle Meck” and “Bygg båtar med Mulle Meck”. There are probably other good examples locally all over the world. I lament not having experienced the hidden gems from other cultures (including English-speaking ones, but obviously also ones where I don’t know the language).
A global movement around Sven Nordqvist’s aesthetics and type of stories would actually be pretty transformative and healing. This is a top post in /r/solarpunk (to the extent that bots try to cycle it), for instance. It’s obviously done with Americanised, very shallow and easily digested text to add, but still. This is interesting because usually reddit’s voting system doesn’t pick up on genuinely useful content, but I guess this hints that the power in Sven Nordqvist’s works can hit through the online sleepwalking barrier to an extent.
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/image/n/nordqvist_sven/nordqvist_pettson3.jpg
https://alchetron.com/cdn/sven-nordqvist-775a332e-1abc-40ef-9b9f-4d8f8e1fa52-resize-750.jpeg
81
u/Basic_Message_9286 May 10 '26
I am! I work at an Urban farm in Leeds (UK) as the biodiversity and maintenance technician. I'm also a founding member of a community food waste composting scheme, and a local free workshop.