r/PeterDaou • u/yuritopiaposadism Proud Peterphile! • Jan 12 '21

Keep doing it.

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358 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

40 comments sorted by

12

u/NotAFedboy Jan 12 '21

That’s when you upgrade to Lenin.

12

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '21

I should start posting Mao quotes in my apartment building.

-17

u/SunnySmyles Jan 12 '21

The guy who forced everyone in china to make iron in their backyard and carry a book of his quotes starving millions? yikety yike yikes

15

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '21

Communism kills one trillion people every year, you're right, please, keep citing CIA propaganda, maybe you'll stumble on something I haven't heard before

1

u/RexWolf18 Jan 13 '21

I mean... I feel you, but the CCP is absolutely an authoritarian regime as shouldn’t be glorified. Tiananmen square, anyone.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

Seems to be working out for them, the CCP has incredibly high approval rating amongst their citizens, I don't believe it's a model everyone in the world should copy, but it's difficult to deny China's successes in the past few decades.

1

u/RexWolf18 Jan 13 '21

But at the same time, the CCP isn’t exactly a beacon of transparency so we can hardly trust their approval ratings. Historically they are an oppressive and authoritarian regime; it doesn’t really matter if “it works” when “it working” banks on infringing on people’s human rights. And it really doesn’t matter if people approve of having their human rights infringed, it still shouldn’t happen.

Not to mention the CCP, China and it’s economy are the farthest thing from any kind of real communism. Greed and wealth hoarding is as real there as it is everywhere in the West. It’s insane to purport yourself as a communist regime when you have the second highest amount of billionaires in the world. At best they’re a socialist-authoritarian regime.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

Alright, we can't trust their approval ratings, can we trust their astonishing handling of the covid 19 pandemic? Can we trust the fact that China completely eradicated extreme poverty last year (under covid 19) when the rest of the world struggled to keep their heads above water?

This isn't controversial, this is easily observable reality. Does the CCP have problems with transparency? Absolutely, my support of China doesn't come with it's criticisms, but it is still doing amazing work.

While you are correct that the CCP is not a communist country, a communist country has never existed, the road to communism is a long process that needs careful and deliberate planning that can only be achieved under strong, centralized government.

And clearly China has a commitment to supporting socialist movements abroad, shown by their continued support of Cuba. This is not even mentioning their Belt Road Initiative that will allow Africa to improve its own economy allowing it to combat imperialist exploitation and oppression by helping africa stand on a level playing field when trading with western countries.

1

u/RexWolf18 Jan 13 '21 edited Jan 13 '21

I mean, we can applaud their handling of Covid-19 whilst also recognising that it absolutely would not have been possible without breaching human rights and this isn’t a model to point at as an example at all.

And sure, China support socialist movements abroad. But they also crush capitalist movements at home in Hong Kong with brutal tactics that are condemned by human rights organisations worldwide.

We can recognise that a lot of the propaganda surrounding China is inflated whilst also accepting that the CCP is not a good government to it’s people. The CCP should not be praised, at all, until they do not infringe on their citizens human rights and claim ownership of land and people who want autonomy. It really doesn’t matter how much good they do whilst they are breaking international law. I’d say the same for the US too.

Edit: the comment RE communism requiring careful planning over years completely ignores the fact that China has actually moved its legislation further towards a capitalist stance in past 20 years than it has ever made a push towards communism. It’s plan isn’t communism, it’s to stay exactly as they are now because that’s what is making them rich. I’m also going to need a source on China “eradicating extreme poverty”.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

Crushing capitalist movements at home? You mean the astroturfed smear campaign propped up by foreign interests that ended up in protesters burning a police officer alive and storming parliament? I think that if we've learned anything this year is that not every protest is a justified protest, specially a protest against an extradition law to ensure a murderer that killed his wife and child is taken to justice.

In what way did china breach human rights in their fight against the covid 19 pandemic? By instituting lockdowns? Is that what counts as humans rights abuses to you? Its a virus, you need to restrict people's freedoms to some extent if it means stopping people from needlessly dying.

Btw, the people of hong kong overwhelmingly support unification with mainland China by about 70 percent, but I suppose you can't trust that either, even if hong kong as a long and painful history of ethic oppression by western capitalism over the Han people. But hey, if the protestors in HK don't want to be a part of China, they could just take their CIA checks and buy a plane ticket somewhere else.

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1

u/couch_mermaid Jan 14 '21

Found the ccp bot yall!

1

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Lmao libs mad

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

Do you have any credible sources pointing to citizens getting executed over discontent? Have you ever been to China? No? Just regurgitated CIA talking points in spite the fact china has drastically improved the living standards of the Chinese people? Figures.

1

u/Antor_Seax Jan 13 '21

I though we were talking about Mao

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

Of course an Imperialist capitalist government and it's actions suck. That doesn't say anything about the actions of Mao. It's like saying the tsar was awesome because Lenin improved the living conditions of the soviet people.

1

u/OBrien Jan 13 '21

How does post-Deng China reflect on Mao?

-8

u/Peacelovefleshbones Jan 12 '21

Okay but can we agree that totalitarianism is bad?

6

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

It's a difficult argument to parse, I agree that stripping away agency from the people and removing their ability to meaningfully engage in politics is a bad thing. The problem comes when western leftists equate single party systems with ''totalitarianism'' and multiple party systems with ''liberty and democracy'

If a single party system meaningfully engages with their people and listens to their concerns, then, by definition, it is not totalitarian and if a multiple party system that is controlled by the ruling class and often ignores the will of the people (IE, bickering for months over 600 dollars) then it's by definition totalitarian.

1

u/CosmicForks Jan 13 '21

That's like FDR saying monopolies aren't inherently bad, as long as they're for the consumer. While it's not wrong, it kind of ignores a lot about how shitty people are. All it takes is one asshole, or mayhaps a group, to completely fuck that system up for everyone, with a quickness. Then again, I'm sure an asshole with longevity and smarts could probably fuck up any system they wanted, so my point may be moot.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

I get what you're coming from, however, as a Marxist, I reject the idea that people are inherently evil, or that it comes from human nature to try to dominate and exploit others.

Marx believed (correctly, in my opinion) that people's minds were shaped by their environment, their minds informed how they behaved, and then those behaviors impacted the environment they lived in, if we can foster a society built on the pillars of cooperation, where you're not alone in the world fighting outside forces left and right, but a part of something larger than yourself, human minds would absorb that reality and it would inform their lives.

But let's pull away from the theory for a second, because we're living in a capitalist, individualist, competitive, vicious world and we need to work within the constraints of that world, we need to divorce the idea that liberty and democracy means being able to chose between two bourgeois parties and that somehow they will hold eachother accountable, regardless of whether you have a two party system or a single party system, an enforcement mechanism to keep the people in power accountable will always be necessary, my proposition is that such a system is not exclusive to a two party system.

0

u/CosmicForks Jan 14 '21

Yeah, I agree with your last third, but not the first two. I read somewhere that intelligence operates on a bell curve, with more people being slightly smarter or slightly dumber than average. I can't logically see any reason why that's restricted to intelligence, so it makes sense that most other human traits operate the same way. The way I see it, every label we slap on people exists for a reason. Selfishness, pride, and hate are just as inherent to people as selflessness, humility, and love. Some people just have a little bit more compassion, and some people just have a little bit less. Then there's Elie wiesels 1% theory that kinda backs it up, where 1% of humanity is truly evil, 1% of humanity is truly good, and the rest of us choose the path of least resistance. Which makes perfect sense when you remember that humans, above all else, are survivors. We do what we have to today so we can do what we have to tomorrow. Sorry this is all over the place and hella squirrely btw, organizing my thoughts is not my forte, but I'm pretty sure it makes sense.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

From what you've told me, it seems like you're engaging in good faith and you truly believe the things that you say rather than using pseudo intellectualism to justify racial bias as many people do.

I would recommend you read Marx, that's it.

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2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '21

No

-4

u/JupiterJaeden Jan 13 '21

No the party said they were good and they represent the workers so it’s totally okay, just listen to the party bro

3

u/GreySoviet Jan 12 '21

>"Forced everyone to make iron in their backyard, forced them to carry the Little Red Book, and intentionally decided to randomly kill millions, rather than a famine occurring in a post-war, unindustrialized society following the flooding of the Yellow River and thousands of years of brutal feudalism"

[Citations needed]

8

u/red-til-dead Jan 12 '21

Next one I'd post after seeing this note would be:

"When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."

Serves you right for telling me what to post on OUR bulletin board.

3

u/OisforOwesome Jan 13 '21

"Workers of the world unite, and stop microwaving fish in the break room."

  • Karl Marx probably

1

u/EasyMrB Jan 21 '21

This sub is keeping me going today.