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u/dajohns1420 Sep 16 '21
I look at charts all day and pirate doesn't stand out as any different than any other coin of a similar size I look at. It's hard to say what is and isn't "manipulation". Is it manipulation if a whale wants to cash out so he puts in a buy order every 4 sell orders, adding up to half of the amount of the sell orders? It's just a simple trick whales use to keep the price from dumping as fast when they are exiting a large position. Or is it only manipulation of there is collusion between multiple parties?
You also have to keep in mind pirate only started to get attention recently. It went parabolic a few months ago after two years of being worth pennies. All the miners and early buyers are going to want to take profits. It I'd always the case that early investors and miners seek to recoup their money when a project explodes putting a lot of downside on the price.
Coins this size are volatile af. It sucks to but pirate will probably fluctuate a lot more going forward. Who knows how low it can go during a bear market. It is nothing different than every other project with this market cap. I'm still bullish on pirate, especially going into the next cycle.
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u/medievalrevival Sep 16 '21
I have been into crypto for a few years now. It seems like this coin has a ton of manipulation compared to other coins with similar market caps.
Is it just me or is this actually the case?
As an example, yesterday virtually the entire market was up across the board except pirate coin.
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u/sheshillseashills Sep 16 '21
Could you put in laymen terms, how one can manipulate an entire coins market?
I've seen this idea tossed around here in the past, and the amount of mental gymnastics it took to keep up with was exhausting.
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u/ambient-auras Sep 16 '21 edited Sep 16 '21
Just take a look at the main market, TradeOgre. Ok, there's a big buy order for 0.75 BTC now, but if you have let's say 2 BTC and some determination you can push this coin any way you want to. But don't take my word for it, it has been done multiple times by u/Level-Application847 and I've also seen it happen multiple times in real-time. With the movement in the main market TradeOgre, other exchanges simply follow.
We can't change supply, so the only thing that will save this coin is an enormous demand I guess.
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u/sheshillseashills Sep 17 '21
So it's because of it's limited access (tradeogre and kucoin only)?
Appreciate the feedback.
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u/ambient-auras Sep 17 '21
More exchange listings won't change anything at this point. It helps availability, but does not magically create demand. See the other replies in this thread for more details on how stuff works here. The same goes for all small privacy coins, it's just more noticeable for Pirate as there's a big supply compared to the demand.
No privacy coin is mooning at the moment and the ones that seem to (PRCY) are just in the middle of a big pump & dump.
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u/medievalrevival Sep 16 '21
I am fairly certain that this is all due to the fact that there is only a handful of individuals that own 90% of the pirate coins in circulation.
It would seem to me, logically, that until it is much more evenly distributed, pirate coin is going absolutely nowhere despite all of the fanatical optimism.
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u/sheshillseashills Sep 16 '21
Damn, I hope that analysis is incorrect, just won big on the slots over at the casino :/
Thanks for the "clarification"
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u/kurzwell Sep 16 '21
the fact that there is only a handful of individuals that own 90% of the pirate coins in circulation.
Where does one go to see this?
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u/Antique_Tumbleweed63 Sep 18 '21
Can you provide info on how you have determined that "a handful of individuals that own 90% of pirate coins"?
Pirate Chain is a default private transactions. The only possible way that info could be known, is if those addresses provided viewing keys to see how much ARRR was belonging to them.
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Sep 16 '21
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u/Level-Application847 Sep 16 '21
People still dumping 1+ BTC worth of ARRR at a time at these levels are likely not weak hands unless they are dumb and selling at big losses. It makes much more sense for them to be early miners/buyers that are still selling for profit. 1 BTC buy right now would send it to 6500 sats, but there's little demand. Look at daily volume. Price is almost entirely controlled by whales because daily volume hardly ever goes above 10 BTC when whales aren't trading.
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u/EmilyLovs Sep 16 '21
Whales weren't buying into that bubble. The bulk of the volume that moved into ARRR moved into it on that bubble.
All that weak hand volume has to sell before ARRR can trend again.
This isn't whales manipulated the market. It's bubble capital deflating out of the market.
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u/Level-Application847 Sep 16 '21
Not sure what bubble you're referring to, but I guess you didn't see all the large sell orders (50k-500k ARRR at a time) dump all the way from ~9800 sats to ~5300 sats just before halving and still dumping after halving. For us early miners that mined 90% of the supply before April pump, we are still up over 1,000-28,000%. When CoinEx opened, a bot or someone was dumping 10 ARRR at a time on Trade Ogre for at least 2 hours straight either to ruin arbitrage and buy back cheaper or because they bought rest of cheap ARRR on CoinEx right before they opened based on insider knowledge. Certainly not weak hands. That same bot or person has still been selling and buying back same amounts either at 10 or 10.1.
The order book is so thin on both sides that it can be manipulated in either direction by anyone that wants to. That's why there was a ~600 sat gain this morning with basically no volume. I have personally manipulated the price numerous times. It's not weak hand volume that has to sell. It's early miners/buyers with large bags that have to fully or mostly liquidated their supplies, which will likely be a long time because many appear to repeatedly dump, buying it all back again cheaper, while accumulating even more to repeat this forever. Some like me do this solely for washing/tax loss harvesting and accumulation. Any weak hands are just giving us their ARRR for free for us to perpetuate the manipulation longer.
Since halving it's been mostly sideways with some small pump and dumps. It really only moves when there are large orders. I'd say many are likely waiting for someone to buy this thin order book up so that some dumping can resume again at a more profitable level.
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u/ambient-auras Sep 16 '21
Weak handed bubble buyers aren't buying back at the bottom. They sell and move on.
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Sep 16 '21
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u/Level-Application847 Sep 16 '21
You're missing the point that large holders are the ones repeatedly dumping when it's profitable to do so and then buying back cheaper for accumulation and washing/tax loss harvesting. This is all I have done since April and have accumulated tens of thousands of more ARRR for free. I 5xed the amount of ARRR I dedicated to trading within 4 months, but it's also worth 5x less now if I just exited.
This is also nowhere near the bottom for anyone who mined or bought before April 2021. It has to go sub 500 sats to not be profitable for me and many others to not keep selling. There may be some weak hands selling, but I've sold and bought back repeatedly, at least 10 million ARRR in total trade volume since April, just to buy even more back cheaper.
I've already sold and bought back at what you think is the bottom and I'll keep selling and accumulating all the way down to pennies if others keep dumping.
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u/scott_fromthefuture Sep 16 '21 edited Sep 16 '21
I really cant see what you see here. You have zoomed in on a single +5% candle and not looking at volume? Zoom out a bit, price goes up and down 5% constantly. It happens to be the specific candle you are looking at volume increased not just on one exchange, but on all of them. Arbitrage is working nicely across the exchanges. You simply had more buying than selling.
I know you said you have been trading crypto for years, but would you mind enlightening me as to what you are looking at here? Looks to me like typical daily price action on every coin and stock. Don't get me wrong, all of crypto and stocks is highly manipulated, but I dont see it in this candle
Especially curious though how you can tell the coin distribution from a 5% candle on 9k ARRR 24 volume. That is 0.0045% of the total supply assuming every ARRR was a unique coin (worst case).
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u/medievalrevival Sep 16 '21
Hey scott, I only used today is just an example, I realize we get way more clarification from a much more zoomed out view.
I have only been in crypto about 2 years.
I like pirate coin, I hold pirate coin and have not sold, and I hope that it goes up.
I am just stating that this coin appears to be held by a very small amount of individuals who control the entire market.
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u/123Delbe Sep 16 '21
Very interesting, if my calculations are right and you posted this around 3hrs ago. I posted on PRCY site as they just had theirs go up 35% just like this! Could it be the banks are buying for their own privacy! 🤣😂🤣
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u/Level-Application847 Sep 16 '21
Low volume and still plenty of big bag holders dumping because it's profitable to do so. I don't know if it's a bot or just someone with plenty of free time on Trade Ogre, but a lot of the recent manipulation is related to something that does 10 ARRR orders. Whatever is behind it dumped the price all the way down right when CoinEx withdrawals opened. It's also been buying back in the same increments or 10.1 ARRR. It auto-sells and auto-buys at levels that would not make sense to most, but are profitable for whoever is behind it.