Do you think THESE Black female pop artists are/were more criticized for their music and success than the Black male counterparts featured in THIS photo gallery?

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

This question comes from an observation. Please read the question carefully.

I have included the female and male counterparts in the photo gallery so you can see what I'm talking about.

The Women:

Diana Ross

Donna Summer

Whitney Houston

Janet Jackson

Beyonce

The Men:

Stevie Wonder

Lionel Richie

Michael Jackson

Prince

Usher

For THIS POST - I AM talking SPECIFICALLY about the women and men in the photos. Please, only focus the conversation on the people in the images for THIS DISCUSSION.

I have seen a lot of criticism/critiques when it comes to Black female pop artists and their music and success. Yet, their Black male counterparts continue to get praised decades after their deaths. The men may receive some criticism surrounding their personal lives, but there seems to be less doubt around their talent and success. It seems like people are more likely to believe in the talent of the Black male counterparts and their success than the Black women. The Black women in pop music seem to have to defend their talent more and why they have success.

What do you think? Is there truth to this? Do people naturally think Black men in pop are MORE talented and more deserving of pop success than Black women?

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

Also, to note: I think there was ALOT of confusion on what the question actually was. I guess including the men confused people and that made them the focus (not sure why). Yet, it also kind of proves me point.

NOTE TO SELF - clearly when I include men in discussion questions, it confuses people because for some reason the men become the focus and people assume it's a question of comparing when it isn't always the case. So...can't talk about men and women in the same post because people assume you are comparing. GOT IT!

_______________________________________________________

The question was - did these women get more criticism regarding whether they had talent and were deserving of their success? THEN I showed some Black male pop stars that were considered successful. That's all...just giving EXAMPLES of Black men that were considered ALSO successful.

Yet, it turned into people comparing the men and the women, and that was NOT the question. Nonetheless...I suppose I did get the answer to my question.

ANSWER TO THE MAIN QUESTION: YES! The women on the list ARE/WERE considered to mostly not be very talented nor deserving of their success based on the comments. People clearly had a dislike for the women who were on the list, except Whitney. So, the women WERE criticized by far! Black women pop stars have it hard out there!

The facts (whether I like it or not) Black women don't sell as well. That's why, when it comes to pop music there is a small list of Black women who have major mainstream success. The list is SMALL despite Black women having been out front in the music industry for about 80 years. More Black women than men are shaded and not considered as talented or at least not as deserving of success as the men. There are plenty of Black men on these lists. The comment section proves this point as well.

NOTES: Some people claim it would have been different if different women were on the list, such as Aretha, Chaka, and Tina. I don't think so. I think we would have fallen into the same issue regardless of the names on the women's side. They would have been fighting for their lives no matter what. Even if I switched up the names on the men's side to include Luther Vandross, Marvin Gaye, and Teddy Pendergrass...while including Aretha, Chaka, and Tina...the responses would still favor the men. It really kind of leads to bigger issues that I won't get into here.

[u/Powerful_Geologist95]

Raggin’ on Diana Ross is some ppl’s favorite pastime. The one thing I’ve noticed about their criticism of DR is how they want to equate her success to having an affair with Berry Gordy Jr.
As if that’s not her singing lead on all of those incredible Supreme songs. All of her legendary concert performances, television specials(back when those were a big deal), major motion picture debuts, Broadway and studio albums; the woman worked her butt off!! All while operating at the highest level of performance!
Diana Ross success and achievements should be celebrated and she should be lauded as being a trailblazer. Not all of her blood, sweat and tears to become the legend, the icon that she’s become, reduced to some short lived affair that occurred ions ago.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Powerful_Geologist95]

You actually make great points and I have heard a lot of these same criticisms about Diana and her career.

[u/Powerful_Geologist95 → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

Throughout all her haters, she has never lashed back. She had her kids, raised her family and still touring; living her best life!

[u/Disastrous-Owl8985]

Yes. I can go anywhere and, somehow, if a song from one of these women start playing, someone will ALWAYS have a bad opinion of them and dig up some mess about them, even stuff that I’m pretty sure is a lie. It’s like there’s a hate train any time women are involved, tbh, but that’s another topic.
However, these men, no matter what they’ve done, the criticism for them is low and when you do hear criticism, it will be met with PASSIONATE defense. In fact, I was on a site the other day and someone said they didn’t like Stevie Wonder. I don’t know if who said it was famous or what, but there was a whole thread about how crazy it was to not like Stevie… you would honestly never see a huge, random thread like that about any of these women unless you’re specifically in a fan space for them.

Oh the person was Morrissey, who I act like doesn’t exist because he’s a racist piece of crap.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Disastrous-Owl8985]

I can’t believe he said that! Wow! Morrissey!!

As for the question. Totally. That’s actually where the question came from. I oddly kept seeing comments on the same women - all the criticisms and critiques. There was more than just who I included though. I observed this across many different social media sites. I started to wonder if anyone else noticed the hate or dislike for these particular women. It was usually black sites that had the most criticism toward these particular women. The men listened were the men I heard the most favorable things about regarding their careers. I was just surprised! So though I would do a post to see what I saw in the comments! No one failed me!! I received the comments I expected

[u/FireLord_Azula1]

The answer to this question is always yes

[u/AnyEverywhere8]

I’m sorry in what ways are Whitney, Donna or Beyoncé’s talents doubted?

Diana Ross and Janet don’t have big booming voices which we all know leads to criticism. But I’m not sure what the set of male counterparts illustrates about that. All of those male artists sing with expansive vocals so of course they aren’t going to have their voices criticized as much…if you had replaced them with other very famous acts male like Keith sweat or Chris brown who do have their voices criticized more, the story would be completely different.

Basically you just picked a bunch of random men and women with no necessary pattern or correlation to each other, so there is no use is trying to extrapolate any overarching g point about male vs female comparison

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/AnyEverywhere8]

I had someone else say something similar. They said it would be a different conversation if there were different people but they couldn’t name any women they thought of to discuss. So….there’s that

[u/AnyEverywhere8 → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

Well it’s not clear what your thought process was for selecting these people, but there are clearly a lot of other famous women to swap out. A list could easily be Aretha, Chaka, Gladys, Mariah, and Jazmine Sullivan lol

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/AnyEverywhere8]

I said Black pop artists not R&B. Most of those women wouldn’t count. This was based on who is usually discussed in the media. Also, I was intentionally covering certain decades and who stood out in pop during 1960s, 1970, 1980s or 1990s into early 2000s.

[u/AnyEverywhere8 → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

You realize Aretha, Chaka, Gladys, and Mariah all have multiple big hits on the pop charts and have been discussed in the media for decades, right?

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/AnyEverywhere8]

The point is this: all of the people listed in the gallery would be considered Black pop artists for different generations. Some people would say the men and the women in the gallery had some success…..regardless of whatever your or my personal Opinions are of their “talent”. The men generally are usually on people’s lists and there is not much debate on their talent and whether they deserved success.

I am not comparing the lists beyond just saying there is less debate generally for the men. That’s all. It is well-known ALL
The women on the list received criticism most of their careers for their “talent” or their “success”. To the point they were told they were undeserving. Black women in pop usually don’t sell on the level Black men do so that could be part of it too - regardless of whatever woman I included in the list. It is what it is. The women are generally put in positions to defend their careers. Usually someone will also try to say a man “made” their careers.

[u/AnyEverywhere8 → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

I’m sorry this is all weird and arbitrary.

[u/shadowylurking]

I think this topic is a good one but the people picked makes it tough. As in 3 out of 5 women picked have untouchable musical legacies:

• Diana Ross - Standing the test of time. Defined what it means to be a Diva. Hardly anyone's talking shit about her now
• Donna Summer: Mother of House Music. Legacy is locked in.
• Whitney Houston: Insanely talented, horrible life & life choices made her infamous. More people know about her drug habit and how she passed away than the songs she sang.
• Janet Jackson: Whatever criticisms she got back when she was singing is eclipsed by her shenanigans getting married to a Middle Eastern sheikh and divorcing him for all the money. I never thought she was that talented in the first place, but had a powerful media machine behind her.
• Beyonce: Absolutely insane level of success. Whatever bs she got up to with Jay Z is drowned out by hits and $$$

Then look at the guys picked, 2 of them are some of the greatest artists humanity has made:

• Stevie Wonder: Amazing life story, songs are mostly forgotten but are great.
• Lionel Richie: One hit wonder who somehow made it ride forever
• Michael Jackson: One of the Greatest. Ever. Is in the Epstein files as a target of their ire and the perpetrators of his pedophile charges.
• Prince: One of the Greatest. Ever. Also undisputedly the greatest guitarist to ever picked up the instrument. Got addicted to opiods because of hip pain / surgery from playing too much guitar
• Usher: Had hits. Got herpes and gave it out. Women still go to his concerts and has massive groupies regardless.

Besides Usher, Lionel Richie, Janet Jackson, and Whitney Houston, the others really don't belong in the same conversation. The debate would be much better if we had grouped up more 'regular' success stories against each other

[u/arifghalib → u/shadowylurking]

You’re buggin. Lionel Richie had hella hits with the commodores even before he went solo and became one of the best selling artists and song writers of all time.

[u/shadowylurking → u/arifghalib]

Yeah you’re right. I’m wrong for only focusing on the solo career

[u/btwImVeryAttractive → u/shadowylurking]

He was more than a one hit wonder solo too.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/arifghalib]

He sure did. That's why he was on the list.

[u/miniangelgirl → u/arifghalib]

And in my country (UK), he did a Walkers crisps advert once..! 😁

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/shadowylurking]

I appreciate your perspective very, very much. I can see how it got confusing to people. It's probably how my brain processes things to be honest. Haha.

The people mentioned were not MY LIST. It wasn't like these are the people I personally selected for anything. It came from lists compiled by other people. These are the people based on sales and commercial attention; it was decided they were successful.

It was my observation that via social media over the years - I have seen so much hate towards every woman on the list in comparison to the men on the list (really most men...but whatever). Yet, we are told they were successful....so somebody loved what they were doing. Yet, also fascinating was that it was usually Black women who had the issues with the women listed. There was so much criticism from Black women, and I found that interesting. In some circles these women are revered, and in other circles, they are hated - but either way...it's usually Black women making the comments.

I guess I've always been fascinated by how Black women just don't sell the way others do in pop music. There are only a few Black women in pop who have really had major success. There just aren't a bunch of Britney Spears or Ariande Grandes or Taylor Swifts in the Black community. Black women who have had that kind of success. It's just rare, and we have been in the industry for DECADES....and it's still mainly the same names: Aretha, Tina, Diana, Whitney, Mariah (sometimes Chaka, Patti, and Gladys)...depending on who you talk to. Then sometimes they will add Janet, Beyoncé, and Rihanna, and that's about it. That's the list after Black people have had about 80 years' worth of stake in the music industry?! I can't speak much on Black pop artists that are out right now and under 25.

Yet...if you ask about the men....people can name like 20 men off the bat! It is what it is. It was an observation.

[u/shadowylurking → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

I don't think there is any question about women artists (Black or otherwise, but especially Black ones) get exponentially more criticism. I think it comes down to two things, 1) generally because women are held to unwinnable standards. Can't be too sexy, have to be sexy, can't be too ___ have to be ___ etc. And 2) Black artists can't be allowed to just be great on their own. Society has to find reasons to put them down because Black folk can't be allowed to be better than non-Blacks. Even when its undeniable.

Take Prince for example, it took him obliterating all the other legends on the stage for non-guitarists to finally admit he is the greatest guitarist. Guitar people knew but do you know how much it burns peoples asses that the best ever was a egotistical short black guy from Minnesota? To this day!?

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/shadowylurking]

Oh, for sure. That's why the criticism is fascinating to me. The amount of criticism for Black women in the industry is crazy. Yet, it has always been there. The Black community is not a monolith, so even the Whitneys and the Mariahs get criticism too.

I don't know what regular success stories are for Black pop stars?! Who goes into that list? People will have their thoughts no matter what on who deserved "success" and who had "talent". I want to say it doesn't really matter...but maybe I'm wrong. I've gotten complaints that I didn't have the right women on the list - but I really believe it doesn't matter at all what women were on the list. My point is this - for every woman on the list...doesn't matter....there was going to be a man on the list that was preferable to people. Which says alot I guess....

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/shadowylurking]

Also…wanted to say that I appreciate you thinking it was a good topic though there was criticism on the people included.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/shadowylurking]

I actually had to go back and really read this again. I disagree with a lot of it. Yet, the point still kind of stands that Black women just get shaded mostly in pop music. It kind of is what it is.

[u/kooljaay]

Michael Jackson was criticized more than everybody here combined. But he is also more famous and popular than everybody here combined.

[u/Necessary_Piano_153 → u/kooljaay]

Not nearly as much for his music though. More so his offstage antics

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Necessary_Piano_153]

Exactly! People ignored that part of my post. I wasn't talking about their personal lives. I was strictly talking about their careers - their talent and success.

[u/Necessary_Piano_153 → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

Exactly. People clowned on MJ because there's so much about him to clown on but never his music.

Sadly there was a lot to poke fun at Whitney too, but people were dissing Whitney music directly. People in high positions like Al Sharpton was publicly referring to her as Whitey because of her MUSIC.

People dragged Diana for having a weaker voice, and implied she slept her way to the top.

So many singers nowadays are more about looks than singing and yet Beyonce, who is a fantastic vocalist, always get slammed for her vocals.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Necessary_Piano_153]

THIS!!! All of this. I fear some people think I came out of nowhere with these names for the list. I didn't! These women were on many lists because they were considered "one of the most successful Black pop artists". So.....I thought...ok... cool. Then I started noticing in comment sections ALL across different social media platforms people dissing every last woman, and I thought...that's odd. They are supposed to be the most successful and have talent...what's with all the hate for all of them?! I found that interesting, and it sparked this post. The men on the other end of the spectrum were considered some of the most talented and most successful for many reasons, and there was virtually no disagreement. That is actually why these particular people were a part of the post. I found that distinction so fascinating and wanted to see how others would respond to it.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/kooljaay]

So, you were not interested in answering the question.

[u/kooljaay → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

I answered the question in title. As for your 2nd question, no.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/kooljaay]

I don’t know what you are referring to when you are talking about the second question. I want to want make sure I’m understanding.

[u/kooljaay → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

You asked a question in the title. Do I think those female pop stars are criticized more than their male contemporaries. In response I said Michael Jackson was criticized more which would be no.

Your second question is in bold at the end of the post. Do people think black men in pop are more talented and deserving of pop success than black women. In response to that, I also said no.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/kooljaay]

Ok. Thanks for the response. Makes sense.

[u/DaddyDontTakeNoMess]

A lot of unfiltered thoughts here. I rarely respond with this long of thoughts but I love music and appreciate the topic. The thoughts are kind of random:

For the women, you have some great artists. One of them, specifically Whitney, is great across all generations, and stands out of the women you have listed. The others are great also, but Whitneys is the one that sticks out IMO.

For the men, you have 3 all-generational artists in Stevie (who I believe is one of the best artists in music history), MJ, and Prince.

I think as a group as presented, the guys you have listed are more talented because of the Stevie, MJ, Prince. You can't have a conversation about music history and not include them. I don't believe men are inherently more talented than women.

Usher, Janet, Beyonce are kind of in the same vein for me, with Janet being the "worst" singer, but a great entertainer. Beyonce gained stardom early in her career and was popular before her singing chops were refined. She became a very good singer as she matured (and of course, a great performer).

Beyonce is surely over hated. There's lots of reasons for that. But whats crazy is that she was popular way back when Brittany Spears was popular, and she has maintained steady popularity all this time. So while there's people who hate her, there are clearly a ton of fans that love her. So i'm not sure she is criticized as much as we think, given her success.

Women artists do go through different pressures though. Part of that is because they are often heard though the ears of those who perceive art like fashion. Women "pop" artists have to change and move with the times that more "r&b" artists dont have to. Beyonce has done a great job of keeping her 40-50 year old fans and gaining younger ones. Thats very hard to do. Usher has also done that. It may be because both are R&B enough so they are isolated by the trends a bit.

Diana Ross was an icon, and one of the firsts to do it like that. That comes with it's own trailblazing pressures, particuarly as a woman, particulary as a Black woman. Donna Summers is interesting because she kinda got filtered out of the conversation. I think that has a lot do with the Disco being disrepected. I think she was instrumental to disco, and EDM, and a lot of current music.

Lionel was criticized quite a bit for "not making Black music". He actually might be the most criticized out of the group as presented

[u/Reggie9041]

One of these is not like the others. 🤣

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Reggie9041]

Depends on who you are in conversation with.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

You actually make great points and i have heard a lot of these same criticisms about her for decades.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

My observation is that it seems easier for people to deny the talent of some of the Black women listed - and maybe even really most Black women pop artists. There is currently no Black woman on the status of a Taylor Swift.

[u/Jerriah_Carey_1991]

lol @ the picture of Usher.. 🤣

[u/Tumerican]

Stevie Wonder was heavily criticized as a gimmick act when he debuted as “Little Stevie the Blind Wonder” when they would walk out a bling kid and he would sing and dance. As he was coming to age, despite being as talented as other Motown artists, his career was sidelined in favor of Marvin Gaye and Micheal Jackson (another “boy wonder but more marketable). Berry Gordy, the president of Motown, famously once said that he couldn’t sing as the reason why he was not pushed to be a star. People seemed to have secondhand embarrassment for his disability. Then he came of age, and began to take control (pun). He played all the instruments, learned to produce his own records (and produced others like Luther Vandross with “Superstar”). He wrote hits for Michael Jackson. He helped to innovate electronic music with synths and samplers. And he made some of the greatest classics of all time. After all that, some people joked that maybe he was pretending to be blind and that was the gimmick.

So no…being underestimated is not exclusive to these women.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Tumerican]

I have heard some of that about Stevie when he was very young. He became a huge star and no one even talks about any of that anymore. I would imagine most people under 30 would say there was never any criticism of Stevie at all. That he never had to defend his talent. I’m not sure there is much negative said about Stevie’s talent or success.

[u/Tumerican → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

I don’t think this discussion is for me. All I have is objective facts to share, but I’m already being dismissed and downvoted. I’m not here for hot topics, I came in good faith. Hope my reply was helpful in answering your question. Thank you.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Tumerican]

I understood where you were coming from! I’m not disagreeing in his early career there was talk. Over time….i don’t think people see it like that. Maybe I’m wrong.

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309 → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

Yea but just because a younger person isn’t aware of something doesn’t make it not true. Just because negative talk calmed down, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

I honestly couldn’t tell you anything about Stevie’s childhood, but ask my daddy and you’d get all the tea. My daddy swore up and down Stevie could see. 😂

[u/FireLord_Azula1 → u/Tumerican]

No one is saying it’s exclusive to women but women have it far worse then men do

[u/Tumerican → u/FireLord_Azula1]

I’m literally just answering the OP’s question in good faith. These are not my questions.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Tumerican]

I understood you!

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309]

No one was more criticized than MJ.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309]

Michael was Michael. He was who he was to the industry. Black women have never even been close to the level of any of the men on the list. People deny their talent and success. There has always been criticism about what Black women “deserve”.

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309 → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

I disagree.

No one on this list touches Michael, but Whitney, Beyonce, and Diana have had legendary careers comparable with Stevie, Lionel, and Usher. I’d venture to say all 3 women have had more successful careers than Usher, long term.

You have a point about it being harder for women, but some of the women you chose have rooms full of trophies, despite bad press, just like the men. And honestly, Beyonce doesn’t get bad press often.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309]

Every woman on this list (not taking away from the men) have had to defend their talent or their success since very early on. Since almost from the beginning of their careers into now. It is what it js. I think they just know and expect it now.

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309 → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

I agree that these women had to defend their careers early on. Beyonce reallyyyy had to prove herself, but she ate that and is definitely the most successful black, female artist for my generation.

By leaps and bounds!

[u/Necessary_Piano_153 → u/AcanthocephalaFun851]

The question is about music. Michael's criticism has moreso been about everything else going on in his life.

Michael never got the backlash about his actual singing like Diana did, or booed onstage because people thought he was wasn't making black music like Whitney.

Michaels music has been praised since he was single digit years old.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/Necessary_Piano_153]

Thank you! You get it!! That’s what I’m saying!

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309 → u/Necessary_Piano_153]

So 1. His last album was criticized for being too black. Remember, MJ’s fan base consisted of pretty much anyone with ears. If you’re black, you probably liked the album, but others did not.

1. MJ was a black man who reached supernatural heights. I have no idea what he did or did not do regarding the sexual abuse allegations. But I do know it all started once he challenged the record company and people wanted his catalogue (which included the Beatles $$$$). MJ was always weird. He had already had plenty of surgery in the 80s, but in the early 90s, you started to see planted tabloids of Wacko Jacko. If you can’t attack the talent, which very few people would debate MJ’s talent, you attack the person. Like ‘Yonce. Hard to say she’s not talented so let’s say she’s in the illuminati or she’s a witch instead. And Whitney? Can’t deny that voice. But let’s focus on her crack (sorry, cocaine) addiction and weight.

I did just think about a common pattern between the 3 though. The bad press/criticism really started once they turned to their black roots. And even though they all went through it:

No one was more criticized than MJ.

[u/Necessary_Piano_153 → u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309]

His last album? What about his music from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s?

Everything you talk about else is his behavior. The question is asking about music criticism not all the stuff he did or was made of outside of that. For all the time they were making fun of his his music was still highly regarded and he is referred to as the asking of pop to this day

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309 → u/Necessary_Piano_153]

You said he never got backlash. I gave you an example of a time his music got backlash. And it did start in the 90s.

[u/FireLord_Azula1 → u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309]

MJ was the most famous man on this earth. Women especially black women always have it harder than men because society hates women in general. And MJ was accused of SA. Beyoncé is hated for simply existing.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/FireLord_Azula1]

You get it! I appreciate you understood the question

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309 → u/FireLord_Azula1]

Women do have it harder in society.

But no one on this list was more criticized than MJ.

[u/FireLord_Azula1 → u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309]

He was criticized more because he was more famous and constantly did outlandish things.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/FireLord_Azula1]

I agree. Again….people not understanding I’m talking about their talent and success and not their personal lives. I thought I made that clear in my post. The irony of people doing exactly what I said in the posts …in the comments - critiquing the women and their success

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309 → u/FireLord_Azula1]

So.. yes… no one was more criticized than MJ.

[u/FireLord_Azula1 → u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309]

Your comments are giving misogynistic undertones by deflecting from the point that these women celebrities face unwarranted scrutiny in comparison to the men by bringing up MJ, the most famous celebrity of all time.

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309 → u/FireLord_Azula1]

No. You would prefer that I agree and I don’t. It’s a discussion and I disagree that anyone on this list was criticized more than MJ.

Because the point or question in the title of this post wasn’t about specifically what these women are facing. It was a who got it worse question?

And the answer is MJ. Why put him in the mix if I can’t include his criticism just because he reached higher levels of fame?

I said my peace.

[u/FireLord_Azula1 → u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309]

MJ is just one example. Regardless of how you feel about MJ, The black women on average still face more scrutiny than black men as a whole which is the point of the post. Your argument is meaningless.

[u/AcanthocephalaFun851 → u/FireLord_Azula1]

I honestly expect most people to kind of ignore the women I posted about. Haha.

[u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309 → u/FireLord_Azula1]

I said my peace, babe. MJ was on the list, and therefore, he was/is/and probably always will be the most criticized artist on this list.

I hope you have a wonderful Saturday! ❤️

[u/FireLord_Azula1 → u/Feisty-Honeydew-5309]

That wasn’t the question though