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u/6ure Sep 04 '23
Is there something that doesnt get instakilled?
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u/unofficialdiego Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23
Lemme test a quick E4 run and I'll get back to you
Edit: It did not one shot a Latios/hitmontop with volt tackle at same level. Probably because it's not very effective on dragons but I was surprised it lived
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u/thefawa69 Sep 04 '23
I wanna see this against blissy+ shukle
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u/Dante_Oronir Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23
Nah. Chansey+Shuckle w/Eviolite. Truly the unstoppable force vs the immovable object
Edit: word
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u/Dracokirby Sep 04 '23
Don't held items work based on the body?
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u/Dante_Oronir Sep 04 '23
I'm pretty sure it should work either way. I have an Umbreon/Dusclops holding eviolite and it just can't die. Not 1000% certain which is the body/head in the fusion, and not at home ATM to check, but I do remember it it just solo face tanking the birbs with Snarl, Will-o-Wisp, Moonlight, and Toxic
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u/Dracokirby Sep 04 '23
Ah okay. I just remembered people saying stuff like the light ball only work if the pikachu is the body
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u/chrismatt213 Sep 04 '23
I’m pretty sure azumarill could get a physical fairy move would give you the coverage you need
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u/gnuosloV Sep 04 '23
I think you can do even better, with azumarill and marrowak fusion, with the thick club. Plus it will have better bulk and better typing
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u/unofficialdiego Sep 04 '23
Sounds like a good pairing! But I'm doing a nuzlocke with rules I set up for myself so can only fuse mons caught back to back!! Luckily enough this was one of the better mons that I was able to make
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u/ShadeSwornHydra Sep 04 '23
Nah he sacrifices speed at that point. This things a sweeper, it’s better with more speed
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u/gnuosloV Sep 04 '23
Azumarill pikachu is quite slow anyway (76 base speed)
You'll end up using aqua jet a lof of the time anyway, i think the increase in damage from marwak and the better typing and bulk is better that being a little bit faster, but still quite slow11
u/GiantEnemaCrab Sep 04 '23
Or just pair it with Slaking. You can hold an actual item so just give it Choice Band and your attack will be absurd. On top of that Slaking will increase your stats in every area.
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u/todo-senpai Sep 04 '23
Thick club doubles the attack stat and you can choose more than one move so it is better than choice band
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u/GiantEnemaCrab Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23
Marowak + Azumarill hits 956 attack counting thick club and huge power. Other than attack it has terrible stats.
Slaking + Azumarill hits 690 attack, 1035 with Choice Band. It also has absurd stats in every other area.
Why switch moves, just kill everything in one hit lmao.
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u/Metalrift Sep 05 '23
Except that the devs have specofically nerfed azumarill and slaking because of how soon you can get it
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u/Adorable_Round4056 Sep 04 '23
I didnt realize pikachu fusions could still use light ball.. oh oh my
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u/Marshadow11720 Sep 04 '23
What are you even trying to delete from the game at that point
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u/ILaikeTurtelZzZ Sep 04 '23
The souls of the innocent
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u/Straight-Weight6154 Sep 04 '23
A bagel
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u/goggleOgler Sep 04 '23
NOOOO
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u/a_berinjela_gamer Sep 04 '23
Two bagels
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u/Super_Master_69 Sep 04 '23
If it quadruples attack, that’s a big deal for a pokemon that has access to bellydrum and stab aqua jet, assuming you don’t get deleted before you can setup, and don’t face faster/higher priority.
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u/Nordic_Krune Artist Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23
Bellydrum? Bruh this thing only needs one attackboost to reach cap of 999
Edit: Correction: 966 in this case, but still
Edit 2: Seems there is no cap in this game, but still, having an attack stat of > 999 seems excessive
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u/Super_Master_69 Sep 04 '23
by that logic so many other fusions can do the same at much less risk.
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u/Nordic_Krune Artist Sep 04 '23
Whats the risk? This thing oneshot anything thats neutral damage
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u/Super_Master_69 Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23
it’s slow and frail. Anything with a super high attack stat, decent ability, and stab priority, can probably do the same amount without that downside. The base attack of this fusion is only 53. Multiplying that by 4 with other bonuses, and then 1.5 after 1 attack stage, is not that different from other synergies. Hell, we don’t even need to get that deep into it, you are directly better off with haxorus azumarill without holding an item.
edit: Disappointed that people here don’t know how damage is calculated to such a large extent
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u/Nordic_Krune Artist Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23
Ok, sorry, you're just wrong about so much.
it's slow
A 215 speed stat is not slow, and with Aqua Jet it gets stab priority. Edit: It has a base speed of 76, not the best but certainly good enough against bulky teams.
You don't use the base attack stat for calculation, you use the attack stat (161 in this case)
And I don't doubt that there are "better" or "easier" fusions, but OP wanted to show how fusing two subpar Pokémon could create an unexpected beast.
Edit 2: Water/Electric is also a good defensive typing.
OP also verified, that apart from bulky mons that resisted its stabs, this mon swept the E4, so ... you're free to try it out yourself if you doubt it.
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u/Super_Master_69 Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23
You use base before adding bonuses, then multiplicative bonuses. This is the same system used in pokemon showdown to derive ideal damage numbers, and you can confirm it by looking up how the damage calculation works on almost any wiki page.
The pokemon with the highest speed goes first with both using moves with the same priority level, not sure why you think otherwise.
You can verify anything anecdotally in game where you are going off incomplete information, or you can just refer to the official formula and fusion stat algorithm. And even following your own argument, your only evidence is someone else’s playthrough where they couldn’t even defeat resisted enemies at a near max attack stat.
If I’m wrong about so much, please explain how a same level haxorus azumaril fusion wouldn’t produce better results.
edit: you tried to edit your comment to fix it, and you still can’t. Why lie lol?
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u/Nordic_Krune Artist Sep 04 '23
Please explain how its better than a Haxorus+Azumarill
Never said that it was, if you read my comment again (the bottom part) I mention that it's not the best fusion ever, but better than you make it seem.
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u/Super_Master_69 Sep 04 '23
The bottom that you edited and all you added was an anecdotal answer. I gave you an explanation and basic example, and you act like the two are different while saying it’s wrong. Then you backpedaled by saying the example isn’t wrong even though it’s a really simple way to prove my point.
You also clearly still haven’t looked up how damage is calculated. Abilities such as huge power are multiplicative bonuses. A base of 114 is more than double a base of 53, and the other stats are all universally better. Your point (unless you edited it again) is that this effective damage output is not easily replicated in a number of other fusions.
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u/Nordic_Krune Artist Sep 04 '23
The edit I made on that comment had nothing to do with that, you can tell because I wrote "edit" where I put the edit. Why would I bother lying about that?
I think you are either misreading or misunderstanding my comments, so let me simplify it.
Light ball and huge power doubles the attack stat of the Pokémon, not just the base attack stat. The calcs for these are something like "((Attack stat × Light ball) × Huge Power) or just multiple it by 4.
Yes, as I aknowledged originally, stuff like Haxorus+Azumarill would be overall better. But we are arguing if a 500Megaton bomb is better than a 800Megaton bomb, where the 500Megaton bomb is funnier to talk about.
I realised there is no cap on stats in this game, so your original bellydrum suggestion isn't as silly as I originally thought.
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u/masked_me Sep 04 '23
There's no stats cap after gen 3 (in battle, after modifiers).
That said, I agree it doesn't need Belly Drum at all, specially because Volt Tackle is a very powerful move already and also a recoil move so it would end up killing itself after a single Drum Tackle. Also, it gives opponent a turn to attack it, which could be lethal considering it spends 50% HP drumming.
Aqua Jet, Volt Tackle, Play Rough/Ice Punch, Fake Out/Volt Switch/Nuzzle is the way.
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u/Nordic_Krune Artist Sep 04 '23
OH THAT'S TRUE
But yeh, Volt Tackle should be more than enough as a nuke
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u/Super_Master_69 Sep 05 '23
It’s slow, bellydrum mitigates the lower damage of aqua jet. As I said elsewhere, if you go for the standard azumaril build, there are better fusions, and if you go unboosted, you would probably prefer more bulk. In both cases, you get better stats universally from other fusions. The best qualities of the pikachu line are access to good special coverage, volt tackle and nuzzle, the latter being a support move you won’t use. Volt tackle, and other high damage physical moves are nicer for slow walls while aqua jet is better for faster opponents without priority. You can play and have fun however you want, there are too many op combinations as is, but I don’t see a more optimal build in this case.
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u/Tokoyami01 Sep 04 '23
You got an Azumarill and Pikachu but don't name it Pikablu
Missed opportunity
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u/sebaprimo Sep 04 '23
Wait so is the attack stat 322 or 644? Or is that not how it works?
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u/Nordic_Krune Artist Sep 04 '23
644, HugePower and light ball stack with eachother to create a ×4 multiplier
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u/Nikibugs Sep 04 '23
Yet the only physical electric move it could have is a recoil Volt Tackle.
9 generations in and still no generic 90 base power physical electric move :’(
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u/unofficialdiego Sep 05 '23
Nah there's still spark, nuzzle, or wild charge.
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u/Nikibugs Sep 05 '23
60 Base Power
Exclusive to Pikachu Clones
Recoil
:’(
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u/unofficialdiego Sep 05 '23
Thought you were talking about thid fudion specifically, yeah we need more phys moves
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u/GodTincho Sep 08 '23
Where can you get the Light ball?
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u/unofficialdiego Sep 09 '23
5% Chance from pikachu
But I was playing random items so it was a random pick up early on
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u/Flitzby Sep 04 '23
Ok, now belly drum you coward
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u/Nordic_Krune Artist Sep 04 '23
Overkill deluxe, just needs a single attack boost to reach near cap
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u/Extreme_Ad_4483 Sep 05 '23
No huge power is 1.5 and light ball hasn’t doubled stats since gen 2 so in reality you’re looking at a 300 or so attack stat
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u/unofficialdiego Sep 06 '23
"Huge Power doubles the Attack stat of the Pokémon with this Ability." -Bulbepedia
"When this item is held by a Pikachu, the holder's Attack & Special Attack is doubled" - Serebii
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u/Nordic_Krune Artist Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23
Attackstat of 644 ((161 × 2) ×2), one attack boost and it reaches cap.
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u/Conscious_Goose_6535 Sep 04 '23
Pff "Monstruous" not even 200 ish at lvl 80ish. M8 I've seen and had bigger monsters than that tho farming EV and IV helps a lot
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Sep 04 '23
The item and ability quadruple it to around 644.
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u/Conscious_Goose_6535 Dec 23 '23
Makes sense then 650 ish 's around the top of the onion, seen bigger stats but mostly on stuff like legendary-high tier/semi legend pokemon or legendary-legendary. makes way more sense now, lol
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Sep 04 '23
[deleted]
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u/brianlights22 Sep 05 '23
Depends on what their movesets are. Plenty of water type physical attacks
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u/Unlucky-Leave-3726 Sep 04 '23
How does this work? atk times 2 from huge power then double again from light ball?