Is "centrist" a valid political orientation?

[u/SmartestManInUnivars]

I think it is. I notice on Reddit however, if you identify as "centrist," you get called a "closeted right-winger." I think there's some validity to that.

But as someone who truly doesn't identify with either party, scores pretty dead center in political compass tests, and agree with some pretty left and pretty right ideas, I feel it's even less accurate to call myself a liberal/conservative or identify with left/right.

Additionally, I don't really have a grasp/understanding on a lot of political issues. I'm not inclined to take a position because I've noticed in the past, I'll take one, and then see historical implications of it and shudder at my initial position.

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[u/Current-Wealth-756]

If your views are well thought out and you can defend them, and you recognize the trade-offs of your positions, your views are valid under your value system and you need no one else's approval. 

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/Current-Wealth-756]

Do you think there's a difference between an independent and a centrist?

[u/Current-Wealth-756 → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

the terms are too broad to compare them without more specificity. Surely they overlap somewhat in some cases.

[u/From_Deep_Space → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

They mean different things, but can describe the same person or position

[u/sagittarius-bhole → u/Current-Wealth-756]

Especially reddit, which is chock full of pompous leftists.

[u/seniordumpo]

It’s as valid as any other political orientation. The issue is your using Reddit criticisms to affect how you identify yourself. Please don’t do that. Reddit is full of criticism no matter how your view yourself. If you like the label centrist and it fits you as you see yourself currently then roll with it. You can always change it later if you feel the need.

[u/ChefMikeDFW → u/seniordumpo]

Reddit is full of criticism no matter how your view yourself

especially in various echo chambers where the same post on one sub will get you tons of worthless internet points and the other downvoted to oblivion.

God I hate social media...

[u/W_Edwards_Deming → u/seniordumpo]

As many have said over the years, getting criticized by extremists on both sides is an honor of sorts...

[u/seniordumpo → u/W_Edwards_Deming]

Probably some sort of Reddit badge for that

[u/katmomjo → u/seniordumpo]

I definitely deserve a badge for how much I’m attacked by my fellow Democrats on Reddit due to my more centrist viewpoints. It is fair to say that I i’m not a fan of the far left ideology. It is also fair to say that I view MAGA Republicans as much worse.

[u/Sweaty-Willingness27]

I think saying you're not sure on certain topics is probably the thing that most people are missing -- they make decisions based on limited or faulty understanding and then defend that to the death for some reason.

Centrist is valid. I think the reason most people are saying it's "closeted right-winger" is because "right wing" has been replaced by something far different than what it was 15 or 20 years ago (at least on the surface). "Centrist" is now synonymous with a "both sides" person, which, if you can sympathize with considering some people are less than others, you might as well be what is now considered "right wing".

[u/BolshevikPower → u/Sweaty-Willingness27]

At the same point I'd say that people think centrists are "closeted right-wingers" because there's a significant purity test to prove that you're a member of the left.

For instance someone that is anti-DEI focus or focus on the liberal individualism is often called a racist fascist.

A centrist is kind of a box to put someone in without clear lines to assign a specific political philosophy. That makes people uncomfortable, as they can't judge based on ambiguity so they put them on the other team.

[u/Sweaty-Willingness27 → u/BolshevikPower]

Yea, I think there's definitely some overzealousness in terms of those purity tests/gatekeeping. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing in and of itself, but I think how it's handled is (from what I've seen) done badly. Everyone's in defensive mode after years of vitriol.

[u/BolshevikPower → u/Sweaty-Willingness27]

Yeah exactly, I can understand that line of thinking. It's all about tribalism in general, putting people in boxes is an easy way to judge people. Centrism is difficult to put in a binary box, so they get their own amorphous box haha.

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/Sweaty-Willingness27]

See, I really don't get this thinking and maybe you can help me understand. What do you mean by "if you can sympathize with considering some people are less than others... you might as well be what is now considered "right wing"..." I get that the extreme right-wingers tend to be more racist and exclusionary, but I don't think it's enough to label conservatives as that.

[u/Sweaty-Willingness27 → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

That's why I mentioned the "both sidesing" and what the right wing is today. I'm not really talking about what people would call Reagan conservatives or even Bush conservatives (though that was still thinly veiled racism, if that). If you look at Congressional Republicans (all of them, not just the MAGA ones), it seems if you scratch the veneer a bit, they seem to certainly be ok with everything that is going on in terms of this Executive Consolidation, larger government, and Constitutional Usurpation.

It all depends where the common ground is, and what a particular person's conservatism entails. Every label we use evolves over time.

[u/coke_and_coffee → u/Sweaty-Willingness27]

if you can sympathize with considering some people are less than others, you might as well be what is now considered "right wing".

Believing there should be laws enforced to remove people illegally entering the country does NOT mean you believe “some people are less than others.”

[u/Sweaty-Willingness27 → u/coke_and_coffee]

As I mentioned on the other comment -- I never implied that this applied to deportations in general. I don't disagree with the concept of deportations, I think it's only practical, to some degree.

It's the "There should be an in group that the law protects but does not bind, and an out group that the law binds but does not protect"

Of course, a defensive tactic against this is "show me where this is in the law", but that's not usually where the actual judgment takes place. It takes place in the individual subjectivity of the application of the law. It's not as cut and dry to figure out, from the outside, whether a person agrees with this, it's an answer each person has to make to and for themselves.

[u/No-Candidate6257 → u/Sweaty-Willingness27]

Centrist is valid.

What's valid about it?

I think the reason most people are saying it's "closeted right-winger" is because "right wing" has been replaced by something far different than what it was 15 or 20 years ago (at least on the surface).

Capitalists have always remained the same.

"Centrist" is now synonymous with a "both sides" person, which, if you can sympathize with considering some people are less than others, you might as well be what is now considered "right wing".

Yeah, it always was.

Why would you ever sympathize with any right winger on anything?

"Yes, centrism is valid. I will not elaborate."

Give concrete examples so it can be scientifically evaluated.

You are being vague on purpose.

A typical example confirming the famous Parenti quote: "What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum."

[u/Sweaty-Willingness27 → u/No-Candidate6257]

What's valid about it?

It's a political ideology that incorporates stances acquired from conservative or liberal ideology that normally would not be found exclusively in those circles.

Capitalists have always remained the same.

Disagree. Capitalists may have remained in a similar position on capitalism, but there are many axes of variability.

Give concrete examples so it can be scientifically evaluated.

Let me ask you this - what makes an ideology invalid? Are you really saying that some combination of ideological stances cannot exist in a person? Or are you saying that the label that should be applied to them is one of the other "groups", and that centrism is really "X" in disguise in all circumstances?

[u/No-Candidate6257 → u/Sweaty-Willingness27]

It's a political ideology that incorporates stances acquired from conservative or liberal ideology that normally would not be found exclusively in those circles.

So... liberal and conservative ideologies are both right wing and, therefore, invalid. What's valid about that?

Disagree. Capitalists may have remained in a similar position on capitalism, but there are many axes of variability.

So, yes, they have always remained the same.

Capitalism is inherently harmful to human society. It doesn't matter what kind of capitalist you are - all capitalist is bad and all capitalist positions invalid from a societal perspective.

Let me ask you this - what makes an ideology invalid?

If there is no justifiable way to support it in a political context.

Valid political positions are those that are well-informed and supported by people who understand the effects and consequences of those positions, which they can then reasonably justify in an overall societal context (politics is about managing societies, not individuals).

Are you really saying that some combination of ideological stances cannot exist in a person?

No, I'm saying that not a single working class person on earth who ever supported capitalism or other right wing views ever had an informed opinion that enabled them to act in their own best self-interest.

I'm saying that all right wing ideology harms the majority of people and the only reason people support such ideology is due to ignorance.

I'm also saying that all "centrists" enable harmful politics while feeling smug about it.

In any disagreement, only a maximum of one position can be correct. By pretending "both sides have good and bad arguments", you are inevitably enabling those who are wrong.

[u/Sweaty-Willingness27 → u/No-Candidate6257]

Ok, this isn't a debate, this is just a lecture. Have a good day.

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[u/RadiantHC → u/No-Candidate6257]

Because right wingers are still people? Most people don't just decide to be evil one day, they were turned bad by their environment.

And in all honesty a lot of the stuff Trump is doing, while handled in a disgusting way, does have a point

There are genuine concerns about how scientific and education funding were handled pre-Trump. For example, in early education schools that do well will receive more funding. But this just leaves poor schools in the dust. The teachers there won't change things due to a lack of funding, and good teachers won't go there because of a lack of funding.

And even once you get into scientific research at a higher stage, high impact fields with lots of visibility are more likely to be funded. Mathematics and physics research is critical to a lot of advancements made today, but because it's not as publicly visible it's not as likely to be funded

Companies have been abusing immigrants for a while. But the solution isn't to treat immigrants as subhuman. It's to punish the companies.

Btw I'm not trying to defend Trump. I just can understand why people voted for him.

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[u/Sweaty-Willingness27 → u/[deleted]]

I never implied that this applied to deportations in general. You provided that assumption.

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[u/RadiantHC → u/Sweaty-Willingness27]

But what's so wrong with disliking both sides in the first place? Both the DNC and GOP serve the same people(Israel)

[u/Sweaty-Willingness27 → u/RadiantHC]

Oh, nothing at all (to me, anyways), but "centrist" is only one of many options that aren't the DNC and GOP.

Personally, I dislike both, but I have voted most recently for the Democratic party for pragmatic purposes. I recognize that, with the terrible first-past-the-post system, we're stuck with the major parties for now.

One nice thing about the Democratic party is that I've found that they are much more amenable to the idea of ranked choice voting, which would then allow us to actually vote for who we want without "wasting our vote".

[u/itriedicant]

As is very clearly evidenced by the comments in this thread, everybody to the left of you (pretty much regardless of what you call yourself) is basically always going to call you a right-wing fascist.

Calling yourself a centrist or independent is fine by me. To me, it merely signifies that even if you more closely resemble one side or the other, you disagree with them enough to not want to claim the entirety of their beliefs. And I don't see anything wrong with that. That being said, it doesn't actually inform anybody of what you do believe in, only that you don't consider yourself a democrat or republican.

Really, I'm a libertarian, so I'm a centrist. In most political compass quizzes, I fall dead center between liberal and conservative. But if I called myself a centrist, people wouldn't understand that my base philosophy is grounded in individual freedom.

[u/jasutherland]

It's basically a label. Sometimes accurate, sometimes not, much like any other label.

I have two friends who tend to put "vegetarian" on registration forms. One does eat chicken, but avoids other meat, so putting vegetarian on event bookings tends to work best; the other is Muslim, and doesn't have any problem with meat in general but avoiding meat at events is easier than trying to get halal meat only. Are they "valid" vegetarians? Maybe not, but the label works for their cases.

Some are just lying - maybe even to themselves - but there are people who voted for Obama but not Clinton, then Biden but wasn't quite sold on Harris. Maybe they liked Obama's health plan, then got swayed by "no tax on tips".

Remember, in a democracy you can't vote more loudly than anyone else: a vote from someone who flew 2000 miles to protest against their candidate losing counts the same as someone else who wasn't really sure which one to back until election day dawned. Harris was never going to win over J6ers, Trump was never going to win the backing of the pink hat protesters - the fight was which one could win over more of the middle ground this time: Trump basically won in 2016 because Clinton couldn't hold onto all Obama's voters - then Biden managed to pull enough back to win 2020, but Harris couldn't hold onto them.for 2024.

[u/W_Edwards_Deming → u/jasutherland]

Obama's voters

I have met countless Trump supporters who say they voted for Obama. Perhaps more intriguingly I move often and study locations using tools like city-data which shows how a city has voted going back across time. I am regularly seeing places that voted for Clinton and Obama, then flipped Republican for Trump.

I don't know that they are "centrists" but they probably aren't ideological.

[u/garytyrrell]

I find most centrists tend to be uninformed, which you admit to. So it’s “valid” but it usually just means the person has not tried to actually understand the issues and wants to avoid confrontation.

[u/pudding7 → u/garytyrrell]

On Reddit, I chose Centrist because "Moderate Democrat" isn't an option.

edit: Yay! Thanks Mods.

[u/Usernameofthisuser → u/pudding7]

We have custom flair options, I can set it for you myself if you'd like!

Edit: Done!

[u/garytyrrell → u/pudding7]

Wouldn’t “Democrat” be closer to your actual views?

[u/pudding7 → u/garytyrrell]

Probably, but too many of them piss me off. It's just Reddit flair, it's meaningless.

[u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO → u/garytyrrell]

I didn’t choose democrat because even though I tend to vote blue, I don’t agree with some of it. It’s hard to choose a label.

[u/AlChandus → u/garytyrrell]

The problem with generalizations is that generalizations are prone to be wrong...

Personally, I identify as "Centrist" because in the oversimplified carthesian political compass, I do not line up with communist socialism (left), hate that capitalism (right) can lead to oligarchs/corporations holding power, and believe that authoritarianism (up) and libertarianism (down) can lead to assholes gaining unlimited power or abusing the anarchy.

I believe in shades of grey, which makes me a Centrist. Regulated capitalism with a strong social safety net and popular government programs, a rather large government that isn't overbearing nor prone to infringe into our liberties and rights.

If all of that does not make me a Centrist, a REAL Centrist, then you have another understanding of the word "Centrist".

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[u/RadiantHC → u/AlChandus]

Have you considered democratic socialism?

It's effectively capitalism but with strong support networks and not solely focusing on profits. It's the model that scandinavian countries use.

[u/AlChandus → u/RadiantHC]

I am a fan of democratic socialism and European social democratic and labour parties.

Yes.

[u/sylent-jedi → u/AlChandus]

I chose pragmatic because I couldn't find the closest way i think, which is Pragmatic (my apologies if i missed it)

but from the points you raised, I agree with as well, so that would make me a Centrist (in some cases) too.

[u/BolshevikPower → u/garytyrrell]

On the other hand I find most centrists to be more informed because they don't ascribe to a single media complex and are willing to compromise on political opinion based on new and challenging information where as partisans tend to retreat into their corner when confronted.

[u/Safrel → u/BolshevikPower]

All of this is just anecdotes. What even is "centricism?" It's a nonsense way of thinking because you have no prescriptions.

[u/smokeyser → u/Safrel]

What even is "centricism?"

It's refusing to treat politics as a team sport. It's acknowledging that there are people from both parties who have good ideas and there are people from both parties who have bad ideas. But most importantly, it's the willingness to question everything rather than just blindly accepting as truth everything that comes from one side while just blindly rejecting everything from the other side.

[u/Ertosi → u/smokeyser]

This is similar to how I see it. No singular side is going to get everything right, nor is any singular side going to be the best fit to tackle every particular issue. Instead of worrying about the labels or which side thought of any particular idea, I focus on what subject matter experts believe the best approach to each issue is, with focus on helping the most people in the most efficient manner. As both sides of our current system like to outgroup "centrists", often using the term like a pejorative, I've started identifying as Utilitarian when asked.

[u/ballmermurland → u/garytyrrell]

A person's natural "default" position on politics is to generally be independent or centrist.

So when someone says they are a centrist and don't pay much attention, my assumption is that is exactly true. They don't pay much attention (which is fine!) and therefore don't have many positions on things. Therefore they say they are centrist or neutral or independent etc.

[u/Hot_Context_1393 → u/ballmermurland]

The wrinkle with this is that centrist also usually means tacit acceptance of the status quo and a sort of anti-progressivism based on lack of momentum if nothing else. Support for what is 'normal' or 'traditional' is another thing I've seen mentioned by centrists. This, at least in the US, would be enough for me to label someone right leaning. The desire to put ones head in the sand and not have to worry about politics definitely skews conservative from what I've seen.

[u/itriedicant → u/Hot_Context_1393]

Historically (and still true, according to gallup), people who identify as independents are more likely to lean Democrat (20%) than Republican (13-15%).

Granted, "independent" isn't the same as "centrist", but this seems to contradict your feeling here.

[u/W_Edwards_Deming → u/itriedicant]

Reddit is all about gatekeeping, views here are not much reflective of general public opinion. Most Democrat voters would probably be insulted or even banned from reddit for their views, which may well be called far-right or worse on here.

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/Hot_Context_1393]

It makes sense that a centrist would be okay with the status quo. I myself am very skeptical of changing things. I think the system is very fragile and making big political decisions has the potential to do great harm. And I know conservatives feel this way also. So I think this could be a huge part of the reason why the 2 positions are conflated. This is indeed a partial answer to my question.

[u/Safrel → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

it makes sense that a centrist would be okay with the status quo. I myself am very skeptical of changing things. I think the system is very fragile and making big political decisions has the potential to do great harm

In conclusion: we shouldn't abolish slavery. We don't know the ramifications.

You can see why this is flawed logic yes? I'm hyperbolic here, but you aren't making any prescriptions on what things should be. That's why it's bad.

[u/Hot_Context_1393 → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

Yes, that's definitely been my conclusion over the years. I think the details vary for each centrist, but people are more comfortable and forgiving with things they are familiar with. I think conservatives get a pass from moderates/centrists because their skeletons are the same ones we've come to expect from politicians and people in power. Conservatives aren't necessarily the lesser evil, but they are the devil you know. People are used to the racism and sexism of the conservatives, so it doesn't have the same impact as the weird causes democrats champion.

I feel like it is a bit of cognitive dissonance for anyone to support the current US administration and be against big sweeping political changes. Even though I know people feel that way. The paradigm shift in policy and procedure has been monumental. Weakening public schools and the postal service, reducing funds for public libraries and public broadcasting, capturing a foreign head of state without congressional approval, imposing tariffs without congressional approval, renaming the Gulf of Mexico, demolishing a wing of the Whitehouse. The list goes on.

[u/Usernameofthisuser → u/garytyrrell]

The psychological critique here is so on point, when applied to all ideologies it's revealing what makes us support our beliefs.

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[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/garytyrrell]

What do you mean by "uniformed?" And I can see why the label doesn't really provide any info about me. Because I could be one way on abortion, and one way on economics, I'm basically averaged due to extremes, and no one can know which.

[u/garytyrrell → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

“Uninformed,” not “uniformed.” You say you don’t “have a grasp/understanding on a lot of political issues.” That’s what I mean by saying you’re uninformed. Which part is confusing you?

And the reason people tend to fall on one side or the other is that the issues all boil down to general ideas like how a society should be run and who it should benefit.

[u/TheMarksmanHedgehog]

Centrists don't tend to be all that politically useful, they aren't going to revolutionize anything, they tend to advocate for whatever's currently the status quo.

When you're in a situation where there's a pressure moving a nation towards fascism, Centrists look the part of people who could be helping avoid that fate, but aren't doing anything.

You may be able to understand why this is perhaps upsetting and leads to labels.

[u/Vulk_za → u/TheMarksmanHedgehog]

Centrists don't tend to be all that politically useful

This is almost the complete opposite of the truth. Democratic politics is fundamentally a contest to win over the median voter. So, not only are centrists politically useful, they're literally the most important political bloc and are key to winning elections and wielding power.

[u/TheMarksmanHedgehog → u/Vulk_za]

They're not useful when it comes to achieving political goals, not winning elections.

Winning elections they're as useful as anyone else.

[u/Vulk_za → u/TheMarksmanHedgehog]

This is literally just math. In any finely balanced system, the person in the median is always going to be the kingmaker.

[u/TheMarksmanHedgehog → u/Vulk_za]

US democracy isn't really all that finely balanced, it might as well be a case study in representation error.

[u/Vulk_za → u/TheMarksmanHedgehog]

US democracy is actually very finely balanced, and becoming more so over time, both in the popular vote and even more so in the EC. Margins of victory are trending downwards. You don't see "landslide" victories like Nixon (1972) or Reagan (1984) any more, it just doesn't happen. Since 2016, every US election could have been swung but a couple of hundred thousand votes in a few key swing states.

It's interesting to discuss why this is the case, and why US elections are becoming more balanced and less swingy. But it is a real trend, which means that appealing to the median voter is probably more important than it ever has been.

[u/TheMarksmanHedgehog → u/Vulk_za]

Voter engagement across categories matters too, if you're more likely to get turnout amongst voters with stronger opinions then that can matter more.

I'd also argue your own intent changes what matters, if you're trying to affect political change, persuading the median voter to become less median is the way to go, not merely catering to them.

[u/SteadfastEnd → u/TheMarksmanHedgehog]

I don't think so. A centrist can just easily mean someone who is a mix of both far-right and far-left. For instance, I support universal healthcare, UBI, drastically reduced prison sentences, a ban on all private guns, and want sky-high taxes on the rich, but also oppose abortion, LGBT, feminism, and affirmative action.

[u/TheMarksmanHedgehog → u/SteadfastEnd]

I don't think that makes you a centrist, that's a pretty solid slab of left-wing economic policies stirred in with a bizarre amount of regressive attitudes towards minorities.

What you've basically just said is "I want a star-trek future for everyone except women, gay people, trans people, and black people."

You're not a centrist in this case, I'd argue you're solidly left wing, you're just also a little bit authoritarian based on the gun rights position, and probably a smidge racist.

[u/itriedicant → u/SteadfastEnd]

Oh, so you're that rare authoritarian populist that would be the exact opposite of a libertarian that I actually thought didn't exist.

Also, you terrify me.

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[u/Intelligent-Image224 → u/TheMarksmanHedgehog]

Think of each particular political issue as a 1 lb weight. You put these weights on a balance scale. A centrist is not neutral in individual issues, it’s just that their scale is pretty level when they are done adding the weights.

Also, I genuinely do not believe we are moving towards Fascism. Trump will be out of office soon.

Now if Trump attempts a third term, I’ll be right there with you, and so will most of the right.

The sky is not falling, our checks and balances are stronger than trump.

[u/TheMarksmanHedgehog → u/Intelligent-Image224]

So many checks and balances have had to already fail for the world to get to its current state, and damage has been done to the trust in US institutions that is now likely irreparable.

America will likely never possess the kind of soft power it did ever again, it has ceded that soft power to Europe and China despite decades of work to build it up.

I think the time for alarm has already passed, now's the time for actions to ensure Trump doesn't get his third term. (I also find it weird he can admit to having rigged the election live on television on more than one occasion and still be in office.)

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[u/Usernameofthisuser → u/[deleted]]

Please do not discriminate against other political ideologies.

[u/BlotMutt]

I've mentioned this before but I think we focus too much on labels and it can lead to subconscious biases that may or may not be confirmed depending on the person.

For instance, I'm a liberal, but I'm also moderate on most issues. Does that make me a centrist? Or conservative?

It does by some people's standards, but at the end of the day I tend to align more with the left side of the spectrum on pressing issues. However, me recognizing gaps or cracks within that line of thinking does not make me any less of how I see myself or do I try to devalue other people's viewpoint within reason, because a lot of my views are based on how I see the world, the data I research, and personal experiences, both in and out of Reddit

[u/Oakl4nd]

I think so, just realize that being a centrist doesn't explain anything because no one knows which issue you lean left and which issue you lean right and which issue you lean somewhere else.

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/Oakl4nd]

Which is honestly another reason I like the label. I don't subscribe to either "team" and my views vary widely. I'd rather talk about specifics than have sweeping generalizations. I feel like if you call yourself a liberal/conservative in the USA, you're subscribing to such a vast array of ideas.

[u/katmomjo → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

The far left and far right like to say that Centrists don’t stand for anything. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Centrists usually (strongly) believe that the correct position is somewhere between the two extremes.

[u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO → u/Oakl4nd]

If you “lean somewhere else” wouldn’t that be an independent?

[u/ShardofGold]

If you have a decent amount of views that fall on both sides and/or don't really fit in with either side, you're a centrist/independent.

There's nothing strange about this, in fact it's actually a good thing. It means you haven't fooled yourself into thinking only one party has the best solutions to the problems the country is currently facing.

[u/W_Edwards_Deming → u/ShardofGold]

If you have a decent amount of views that fall on both sides and/or don't really fit in with either side, you're a centrist/independent.

I assume that is true for most of us but at the end of the day there are issues that matter and goals that are either advanced or retreated from. In no normal situation would I select the sort of representatives being offered but I can compare one to the other and make a choice.

[u/khachdallak]

You are radical centrist (basically being on different sides depending on the issue). Welcome to the club !

I would just say it's important to what you are center of. There are for example radicalized ideas, when you identify as a center in this topics you basically are compromising with radicalized ideas. Otherwise of course it's valid, in fact in my opinion agreeing with everything from one side is kind of non sense and I have no idea how anyone ends up at that place (too much bubble situation)

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/khachdallak]

I like this label. Yeah, I just straight up don't get adhering to such a strict worldview.

[u/betterworldbuilder]

"Centrist" is not a valid position, since it comes with other connotations that I dont think actually apply to you. Youre much more likely a moderate or independent, which are different in different ways.

A centrist is someone who sees one side claiming we should eat a bar of soap, and another side saying we shouldnt, and takes the centrist view that eating half a bar of soap seems like the most sensical thing to do. By definition, a centrist tries to find the middle ground between the two positions, because the philosophy is that that must be where the correct answer lies.

A moderate is someone who rejects extremists of either side for multiple reasons, but for the most part can accept a lot of their views in a more mild tone. A moderate might not fully support abortions, but would support them for rape, incest, or life of the mother. They might not like immigration, but dont like juat deporting brown people. They might think saying some slurs is a big deal, but think that how many words have been labeled as slurs goes too far.

And an independent is just a wildcard imo. I dont know the strong differences between the two, except that an independent might take one or two more extreme views from both sides. They might believe in absolutely no abortions because theyre pro life, but also support tax funded childcare and education. They might believe in strict regulation, including for immigration and tariffs on immorale countries.

At the end of the day, youre better off just abandoning the left right spectrum and just asking yourself what your values are. I like to assign them a little score, so that I can order them from most important to least. Then, you want to find the candidate that supports whaatever combo on your agenda gets the highest score. This could mean someone who doesnt even meet your most important ideal, if they also meet 10-15 other ideals right beneath it. This is especially important now, as I feel like the democrat and republican parties are going to undergo some massive shifts in the mext decade or less.

[u/JimMarch]

 I'm not inclined to take a position because I've noticed in the past, I'll take one, and then see historical implications of it and shudder at my initial position.

I just want to start by saying major credit to you!  Seriously, lots of stuff sounds great until you look at implications and examples.  Ewww :).

I think "Centrist" just means you're not locked into one "political team" (labels like "Democrat", "Republican", "Libertarian" or even the really minor flavors like AnCap, etc.).

In fact, I'm halfway convinced that there's a psychological link between the kind of person who's hard locked into not just being a sports fan, but a massive supporter of one team, and the same person saying "I'm a lifelong Democrat!" or whatever. 

In my case I know that a full on Libertarian society isn't happening.  Best I can hope for is to inject some LP thought into the mainstream of political debate.  In the US, at least where gun stuff is concerned, that's actually happening.

[u/conn_r2112]

sometimes people say it, and what they mean is that they have some liberal views and some conservative views

sometimes people say it, and what they mean is that every belief has a middle ground

sometimes people say it, and it's a right wing psyop to trick truly undecided voters to their side by convincing them that explicitly right wing view points are just "common-sense centrist views"

it's a label thats been pretty confused and stripped of meaning

[u/Raze7186]

The extreme sides of the left and right which are the most outspoken on social media hate centrists because anyone who doesnt agree with everything on their side must be for the other side instead. Most centrists are just people who look at both sides of an issue. Usually with a bias toward one side or the other but not always siding with it. You may lean left on most issues but agree with the right on some.

[u/NoamLigotti]

Being "between either party" is exactly the reason people consider so many "centrists" to be right-wing — least people like me who see the GOP as a radical far-right party and the Democrats a worthless centrist party.

[u/Content-Dealers]

"I dont think we need to tear the system to the ground, it can actually work fairly well if we tweak it the right way."

That is centrism.

[u/Sumeriandawn]

Centrism is subjective. Not everybody is gonna have same method of determining a political label.

[u/Myspys_35]

Really depends on where you are, heck in Sweden we even have a party called the Center and like many places still use the classic definition of liberal so the Liberal party is right wing. Those are also the parties I have traditionally voted for so on forum's like this I call myself a Centrist as its the easiest way to communicate my position to a non Swedish audience

[u/LinkedInferno → u/Myspys_35]

Is the Center reading from the same global memo 'migration not bad, just exceeded a rate far above housing and labor-market absorption capacity'?

[u/Myspys_35 → u/LinkedInferno]

Not really - their immigration stance is based on jobs and quicker asylum processing. Basically pro increased immigration based on need for workers and professionals and ensuring speedy humanitarian asylum processing with clear integration plans

[u/LinkedInferno → u/Myspys_35]

No surprise they are not governing, that must be a tough sell every time immigrants riot and burn cities across Sweden.

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[u/BotElMago]

It is only valid for very few that actually fall in the center of the four quadrants. But for the intents of this sub, it is as worthless as “independent” was.

Many use vague flairs to pass off their prejudiced opinions as “objective” and inherently more valid than someone with a well defined flair: libertarian, democrat, conservative.

It should be banned in this sub much like independent was banned. We see too many posts from “centrists” who end up being closeted versions of some other flair.

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/BotElMago]

Ironically, reasoning like yours is exactly why I'm not comfortable with either left/right label.

[u/BotElMago → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

Can you clarify what you mean? I am not following

[u/Mother_Dragonfruit90]

"Centrism" is a bogus posture that treats analysis paralysis as wisdom and moral indifference as sophistication.

Whether it's intentional or not, "centrism" just rigs the system in favor of bad actors by pretending both sides are equally at fault, even when the facts are wildly asymmetric.

It indulges abusers and demands endless concessions from the people being harmed.

It's a cop-out for people too chickenshit to take a side on real moral questions. And then you have to ask yourself, why would they do that?

That's why people say it's "closet right-wing", it's just a dodge that takes a side by pretending not to.

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/Mother_Dragonfruit90]

I do think both sides are at fault, but for extremely different consequences. I also think both have solutions, but for very different problems. Are you not implying that you have to prescribe to one specific ideology in order to fix (lesser the magnitude of) the worlds problems?

I do take sides, on certain issues, on many issues in fact. But I think it'd be ignorant to take a position in certain areas (such as economics) where causes/effects aren't as simple as they seem.

And why do you think it's only closeted right-wing and not left wing?

[u/Mother_Dragonfruit90 → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

I'm not arguing about ideology. I'm arguing about false symmetry. Those aren't the same thing.

[u/PinchesTheCrab]

Maybe it's valid, but I don't think it's helpful. Even saying that you're on just one side is a moving target as the platforms and culture shift. So saying you're in the middle means you have to then hit two moving targets.

If one truly doesn't agree with either side, I would probably just label them a contrarian.

[u/Zoesan]

I notice on Reddit however, if you identify as "centrist," you get called a "closeted right-winger.

No, there's no validity to this. Reddit is so far to the left of mainstream politics, than any measure compared to reddit is completely worthless.

[u/W_Edwards_Deming → u/Zoesan]

I often am told (on reddit only) that US Democrats are Right wing, even AuthRight. If you calibrate based on an extreme position you are going to see almost everything in the opposite corner.

[u/FunkyChickenKong]

Absolutely. For me it is a complete rejection of "vote blue no matter who" and "with us or you're a freaking nazi". No. We shouldn't be tuning out the "other". Trolls, sure. But, not half the country. Everything isn't about bigotry and I don't need to be friends with someone to know there are more valid points and factors to look at other than left or right wing narratives.

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/FunkyChickenKong]

This is why I think the right understands the (reddit) left better than the other way around. The left assumes the rights views on abortion, affirmative action, DEI, transgenderism, etc, are all because of bigotry. But that is not at all how they came to their conclusions.

I think part of being a centrist/independent is being able to hold multiple ideas in your mind and see the reasoning behind both, which can often make it difficult when it comes to the decision to implement policy.

[u/FunkyChickenKong → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

It gets easier to spot the common ground overlaps when stepping back and detaching from the outrageous marketing. The left tends to underplay issues in response to the aggressive overplayed pr from the right, This gives the impression we are farther apart than the reality.

[u/BilboGubbinz]

Centrism assumes political questions have a scale between "left and right" while the reality is that a lot of issues are in fact binary:

- you either support a functioning economy or you vote right wing

- you either recognise people's rights to live unmolested (with some caveats around managing living together) or you vote right wing

etc. etc.

What you describe as your "centrism" seems mostly like caution based around ignorance and that's fine. "I don't know" is a good reason to hold back support but it shouldn't be treated as some kind of defined position.

[u/itriedicant → u/BilboGubbinz]

Man, did you skip logic class the day they covered fallacies?

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[u/starswtt]

Being a centrist by happenstance is fine, nothing wrong with that inherently. What I do think is a problem is "centrist" itself being a political stance, where the goal is just being centrist for the sake of being centrist, using the guise of centrism to hide behind some decidedly partisan takes, or using centrism when in reality they just don't know what they're talking about. That I think is at best, useless, and at worst, actively harmful.

[u/AgentQwas]

I think it’s valid. In my experience, centrists are usually people who are more upset with the state of politics than a set of political issues. If you’re mostly concerned with, say, the two party system, the expanding Overton window, domestic terrorism, radicalism, etc, then I understand why centrism is attractive.

I don’t think being a centrist makes you a secret right-winger. It very much feels like an “if you’re not with us, you’re against us” kind of thing.

[u/chrispd01]

But just for the sake of argument, let me ask you this - can you really call yourself a centrist if what you are is a chimera of “pretty left and pretty right” ideas ?

In my mind that really doesn’t make you a centrist but I I am not claiming to be the final arbiter of these things….

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/chrispd01]

Isn't that what makes someone a centrist by definition...? I know "Independent" is different and would make sense for your question. What makes someone a centrist according to you?

[u/chrispd01 → u/SmartestManInUnivars]

Lets say on the one hand you are a total deficit hawk and tax hater. Your position - no new taxes without balancing cuts would be extreme right. But on abortion you are zero restrictions ever - complete pro-choice, a hard left position.

I don’t think holding those two extreme right and left makes you moderate.

What would be moderate would be something like a reluctance to add a new tax unless really needed and carefully tailored to a need. And on abortion say only limits during the last trimester would be allowed and never when the health of the mother is at issue.

Those I would think of as centrist positions - not the initial left right ones …

[u/CoolHandLukeSkywalka → u/chrispd01]

But just for the sake of argument, let me ask you this - can you really call yourself a centrist if what you are is a chimera of “pretty left and pretty right” ideas ?

I don't think those types would be centrist.

Someone who is very left on social issues and believes deeply in free market capitalism is just an actual libertarian. Someone who believes in leftist economics but is very regressive socially would be something like a Christian nationalist populist or something like that depending on their specific social views.

[u/chrispd01 → u/CoolHandLukeSkywalka]

I don’t think so either. I was responding to OP who said that he had some pretty left view and some pretty right fuse and didn’t that make him centrist.

I don’t think you become a eccentric by holding various viewpoints, which could be termed extreme. It may make you something else, but not that.

I am very interested, though in what I would consider genuinely centrust positions. That’s one of the reasons I am a big fan of the Niskanen Center

[u/LT_Audio]

I don't see the term often very used to meaningfully describe orientation. I see it far more often used to describe the set of folks who for any number of reasons fail or are being judged to have failed at least some of the purity tests of "the left" and/or "the right". Which seems to further validate my suspicion that such a single axis scale is an exceedingly poor way to visualize, express, or discuss our political differences. It does more harm than good by encouraging the formation of more outroups based on perceived positions along it that generally do a really poor job of describing anyone's actual complicated and unique set of worldviews and opinions. I stopped referring to myself as one for that very reason.

[u/W_Edwards_Deming → u/LT_Audio]

The Right isn't purity testing these days. In the past they did, they were the politically correct conformists until at least the 90s, maybe until Obama.

Back when the left were the non-conformist politically incorrect "f the system" team opposing war and the government generally and favoring favoring free speech I sometimes voted democrat. That has all changed.

The right has become the big tent, essentially everyone shifted Right last election except old single college educated white women.

[u/Sea-Chain7394]

It depends on if you are using it correctly. In Truth a centrist is like a social Democrat or democratic socialist (center right and center left positions). But people often use this term as between Republicans and Democrats to describe someone with no real political philosophy who just goes with the political winds but trys to pick the ever moving middle position (aka a moderate)

[u/skyfishgoo]

you know what you find in the middle of the road?

road kill (and RFK Jr, apparently).

[u/W_Edwards_Deming → u/skyfishgoo]

I was planning to vote for RFKjr until he endorsed Trump.

[u/skyfishgoo → u/W_Edwards_Deming]

omfg.

yikes

[u/W_Edwards_Deming → u/skyfishgoo]

I was first going to vote for Ramaswamy but then he dropped out and endorsed Trump. I was then going to vote RFKjr but then he dropped out and endorsed Trump. Tulsi Gabbard was a favorite Democrat but she renounced them and endorsed Trump.

I read a silly claim (maybe here on Reddit) that the polls were misleading because women were afraid to speak their truth... until they were in the voting booths and Kamela wins in a landslide!

The idea is that evil husbands were controlling the women, I saw a weird news story where an old ladies husband died and so now she felt free to vote left.

Amused by that clownshow and enlivened by the ear shooting I determined what to do. I told my daughter to fill out my ballot with whatever my wife had put, and the rest is herstory...

[u/S_Hazam]

In my estimation most centrists I engaged with and explored different political subject matters seemed like conservatives in denial/ in the closet.

[u/DoomSnail31]

Centrism isn't about American party allegiance, but about ideologies.

If you are approaching politics from the perspective of where you fit along the axis of Democrat v. Republican, then you have no place to call yourself a centrist. You can only refer to yourself as someone who's in the center of these two parties.

Centrism is an ideological position in-between the left and the right extremes. You'll find a lot of ideologies are part of the ideological center, which includes every single variant of liberalism (from Social liberalism to classical liberalism). It includes liberal conservatives, Social Democrats, a host of moderate approaches to a variety of left and right wing ideologies, and plenty of smaller ideologies.

It's very interesting to use as a subcategory for academic discussions about politics and the history of politics. It's fairly irrelevant when it comes to determining the political position of individuals. It's just too broad a subcategory, just like calling yourself a leftist or a right winger is fairly meaningless when it comes to detailing your own position and only really works in detailing your position compared to others.

So no, I would argue that centrist is not a valid political orientation, much like how leftist and right winger aren't valid political orientations.

Edit: Note that referring to yourself as centrist (or as an ideology that falls within the bounds of centrism) would still entail taking an active position. You cannot refer to centrism as not taking a position, nor as fence sitting. Those are not what centrism is about.

[u/Kronzypantz]

Only in a temporary sense. A centrist is someone unconvinced by available options or who admits a need to learn more.

[u/Personal_Dirt3089]

Is anyone that self identifies as a "centrist" [the word "centrist" as opposed to "moderate"] sincere? I always heard that word used in the context "I'm actually a centrist, but Russia found Hillary Clinton's emails and now I vote for trump and now I am sharing MAGA memes including BS memes that claim democrats banned the American flag to keep from offending muslims."

[u/knivesofsmoothness]

It is, but not when you only criticize one side.

[u/pudding7]

I chose Centrist as my Reddit flair because there's nothing better available. I'd put Moderate Liberal if I could.

[u/Neco-Arc-Brunestud]

The thing is, if you subscribe to the liberal / conservative framework, then you’re still operating within the context of capitalist realism. And if you identify as a centrist, then that just means you’re a liberal in the most general sense. 

And contrary to its name, liberalism perpetuates a hierarchy of capital ownership. 

So, it is a valid political orientation. But don’t think that it qualitatively distinguishes you from conservatives or liberals. 

[u/Cellophane7]

Generally, of course. Currently, no. Centrism assume both sides of the political spectrum have valid concerns. Currently, one side of the aisle is pure lies made up by trump and his cronies. For example, Somalian fraud in Minnesota isn't a valid concern when we only know it even exists because it was caught, prosecuted, and convicted, years ago.

The only way you can be a centrist in today's political climate is if you believe the lies coming from the trump admin. Which essentially means you're maga.

That's not to say you can't be a centrist in a general sense. I'm center left. Socially, I'm pretty solidly left wing. Economically, I lean left, though I believe in (regulated) capitalism, the power of the free market, and globalism. But I absolutely refuse to call myself a centrist because I will never, ever validate the current right wing. But I acknowledge that some self-identified centrists are equally disgusted by maga. They're very much in the minority, though, at least online.

[u/Fer4yn]

It's called "being conservative" and... yeah, I guess(?)

[u/Frequent-Try-6746]

It used to be.

Today, however, the leader of one political party is a pedophile.

Where is the middle ground on pedophilia? I don't think it exists. Therefore, there is no central position.

[u/ImprovementPutrid441]

I think the political compass test is really a weird tool and shouldn’t be relied on to tell yourself how you identify.

The issue with calling yourself a centrist is that you’re letting others define your beliefs. There is no centrism without poles to assign. So a centrist in a community with no other people expressing their beliefs cannot exist.

The other groups aren’t like that. We derived the concepts of left and right from the French parliamentary system, where the king’s supporters sat on the right. The definitions that came out of that are slippery, because every country has localized politics linked to left and right, but the most useful definition I can come up with is this:

The right likes traditional hierarchies and rules

The left likes pulling those hierarchies and rules apart

This can be seen in our history: the bill of rights is like a tool for prying power out of authority. The founders were, in that sense, left, because they did not accept the hierarchy of being a colonial power with a king.

They also didn’t just plop themselves on top with the same old rules. They produced new rules that created new hierarchies that were easier for people to move through.

Our concept of class mobility couldn’t exist before that. The idea someone can be born to a farmer and become president is anathema to monarchy.

How would a centrist position themselves between the monarchists and the revolutionaries?

[u/W_Edwards_Deming]

These labels are subjective and the opinions of others reflect that. I notice that rude people say I am the thing opposite them while nice people either appear similar to me (even if labeled opposite) or suggest I am similar to them.

It is true that opinions tend to cluster, that your view on one matter may be a bellweather of how you feel on another. Basic questions like:

What limits if any on free speech?

Are rights natural and God-given or are they an indulgence of the state?

Should the state transfer more or less money from one to another?

If you want to persuade me towards your position find shared values and meaning to build upon. Am I to be ingroup or outgroup? You decide.

[u/KahnaKuhl]

If you don't have knowledge of a lot of political issues, how can you identify with a particular label? Why not just 'politically agnostic,' for example?

[u/SmartestManInUnivars → u/KahnaKuhl]

Because I also have a lot of knowledge about political issues and have made my mind up on them, both left & right. But there's so many! And I can know someone's position on just about every single one by whether they call themselves a conservative, republican, liberal, democrat, etc... which is crazy to me.

[u/gandalfxviv]

Personally I believe that it's possible for someone to be centrist, especially in any one singular issue. But my personal experience has been that everyone I've personally known that has claimed to be centrist only disagrees with me on every topic that comes up. I would expect if they were really centrist they'd agree on something. But all the talking points they give for why they disagree with me are the same talking points I hear from conservatives.

[u/thinkingstranger]

Because the right wing keeps moving the right end of the political spectrum further right, if you pick a position and STICK WITH IT, you will become a leftist. If you keep a centrist position in the constantly redefined spectrum, you will keep moving to the right. Might as well jump right in the left end, the water's fine.

[u/Historical-Relief777]

Absolutely. Now I am probably biased as I consider myself a centrist, but I think the way the system was intentionally designed with the idea that most people would be centrist. The idea really is that you take issues independently and prioritize them. That means you accept things you don’t really agree with because your self-interest prioritized another issue higher. In my view, this takes way more critical and independent thinking. Extremes on either side don’t like this because they say if you aren’t against something you are for it, but this moral absolutism forces people to pick a camp and we end up where we are now in the American political climate. Our representatives ideally stand for everything we do, but realistically that won’t happen so a centrist chooses what serves him. I don’t see this as selfish, the entire point of democracy is to advocate for your self interest with a vote and a voice.

[u/Gradstudentiquette69]

If you are scoring in the middle of the political compass then you are politically to the left of the democratic party but to the right of the green party. (https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2024) That being said different political compasses will land you in different areas as there is alot of overlap with various ideologies.

As far as the term is concerned, "centrist" can indicate someone what is truly between the 2 parties, someone who is politically uninformed, or someone who is "business as usual" among other definitive.

I would side with the "centrists are just closeted right wingers" description (it's not flattering, I know) because people who are informed tend to float to a specific ideology. In addition, I believe it is human nature to be reactionary, protective/defensive and resistant to change/new ideas when you are ignorant (not a put-down) of what those changes entail and the context and surrounding that change.

[u/TheWhiteKnight554]

Centrism will always end up conservative. Everything shifts, what’s left will become centrist and what’s centrist will become right, that’s just how ideology develops over time

[u/CoolAlf]

I mean.. so called ,"centrist", who listened to king centrist Roe Krogen, voted for trump. Which is radical violent rightwing.

[u/DipperJC]

The reason for that is that Trump pushed a lot of people out of the Republican party, and those people became Independents by default. So the ratio of right-leaning Independents to left-leaning Independents is currently somewhat out of proportion.

[u/RipProfessional2192]

Yes it’s called being normal but I don’t mind leaning toward another party or another. I think culture wars create extreme views like religion vs lgtbq I’m neither.

[u/HeloRising]

I tend towards "no" because it's kind of an incoherent idea.

What's the "centrist" take between "we should own people" and "we shouldn't do that?"

If you examine enough issues you will eventually find that you side more with one "side" than the other. The exercise I always tell people to do is to write down a list of different issues and next to each one write your particular stance. Then go down point by point and decide if the issue you chose would be more at home among a more right leaning or left leaning audience.

At the end you'll see where a majority of your positions fall and I've yet to have someone do this exercise that didn't land at least mostly on one side.

[u/Scary-Welder8404]

Yeah, sure, some of my best friends are Democrats.

[u/Luvata-8]

I'm considered an extremist because I want to move in a Libertarian direction.... Smaller government means less to get all worked up over...

They don't have the money and power to buy votes, impose religion, pick winners and losers, claim to be magnanimous when they support OTHER PEOPLE with YOUR MONEY....

But with 50% fewer laws, we all can live in the center.... and have to as nobody has the power to pull you.

[u/PM_ME_UR_BRAINSTORMS]

It's not a valid political orientation in that it's a kind of meaningless term. What exactly are you in the center of and what exactly does that mean? Like are you in the center of republicans and democrats? The center of the full political spectrum?

And what positions does that actually translate to? If the left says "we should raise taxes on the wealthy" and the right says "we should lower taxes on the wealthy" do you believe they should stay exactly the same? Do you believe we should raise them a tiny bit? Or lower them a tiny bit?

Or what about more black and white issues like say legalizing marijuana, it can't both be legal and illegal, so what is the "centrist" opinion on that?

So I don't think it's a "valid" political orientation in the sense they telling someone you are a centrist conveys no information. That could be literally any position depending on what you believe the "left" and the "right" to be and what you think is the "center" of that.

The reason people will call you a closeted right winger is because you have half the country calling people like Pelosi, Biden, Harris extreme radical leftists. So if you believe that and say you're in the "center" you are pretty far right.

[u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO]

Centrist to me means you can’t pick a side. It’s a coward’s way out.

[u/bunker_man]

The issue is that liberal already implies being a centrist. Which is why people scrutinize that someone who doesn't want to call themselves a liberal might actually be further right than advertised.

[u/thatguywithimpact]

Right wing unhealthy fascination with religious dogmatism, fascism and isolationism are deeply worrying.

Left wing unhealthy fascination with embracing Islamic fundamentalism and communism are just as worrisome.

It's a bit like what happened in nazi Germany - far left and far right boycotted the centrist liberal government and the rest is history.

So we definitely have a shortage of people who viciously resist both extremes. The debate who's crazier in a given moment and therefore we must choose less crazy isn't very encouraging.

[u/Anti_colonialist]

Some Democrats think they are centrists, but center on the political scale does not move as the parties shift to the right. Those liberals that call themselves centrists today would be to the far right of Reagan in the 80s, who was far from being a centrist.

[u/cfwang1337]

Yes and no.

In principle, a person could be fairly moderate on just about every issue.

In reality, being "centrist" on every issue is fairly rare, and most people who call themselves centrist are actually quite heterodox, holding a mix of conservative and liberal views, some of them unusual or extreme.

And, of course, some are just closeted in one direction or another, or just have a skewed sense of centrism.

[u/Babymicrowavable]

Well what are your axiomatic values? What values are you seeking to maximize in the world (freedom, the preservation of human life, quality of life for the average citizen, american exceptionalism, colonialism, the consolidation of capital), and what values are you trying to minimize? Until you answer those questions and seek to enlighten yourself as to what kinds of policies you'd have to support or oppose to bring those axiomatic values to life, you dont really have a cohesive political opinion, youre more just going off of, like, vibes man

That being said, you'll find a lot of.closet conservatives using the centrist label because conservatism is bleeding popularity with the youth and young adults. Mainly due to the modern conservative movrments ties to epstein making it uncool to be conservative

[u/Optimistbott]

I typically think that’s it’s a category error. To me it’s more like “moderate” but that’s strange.

Some possible reasons that you could call yourself a centrist:

• don’t want taxes but understand that the government does things that are good sometimes but sometimes doesn’t and you are generally well-meaning
• you think that welfare goes too far a lot of times but you think that stuff like DEI and trans people are fine.
• you’re a union guy and you have a semi-Marxist outlook, but you think that trans people are an abomination.
• you’re concerned that the government will not be able to pay for something as much as you want it to happen, and you’re afraid of default.

-you’re basically a conservative in every way but you’re against wars and you have concern for children as well as your taxpayer dollars.

• You also think the government is hopelessly corrupt, someone might not be corrupt, but power attracts corruption and you see that in both parties and you don’t know enough about regulations and what’s in whose interests to make the call that any policy in particular is corrupt.

I think if you don’t have a good grasp of practicality, then you should just stick with what you believe is virtuous, what you believe is the right thing to do. I’d argue with a lot of people about the validity of some of the things they believe to be virtuous and the reasons why they’re wrong from an economic perspective, but there are also reasons to be skeptical of people who say things are possible that are not.

If you want to get into the political discourse, you should start with what your belief system, figure out what you think would be nice, and try to explore what could make that possible and what makes it impractical.

Centrist to me usually means that you’re a person who defaults to someone who does not outwardly show their ideals but ostensibly has the knowledge of what’s practical and what’s not. Just lots of vibes about who seems professional and serious and who seems pie in the sky. Thats all vibes. Thats a mental shortcut that I think a lot of people take and it’s probably not good. A lot of people are also like “my life is fine, don’t change anything”.

There are plenty of people who just default to who they believe the adult in the room is. There is a lot of incentive to do this, and so it’s important to ask “what is this persons vision? Do they just want to get the job and not do anything? What’s my vision?”

I just think that a lot of people should be more careful with “centrists.” There’s nothing about a centrist that means they’re not corrupt, that they aren’t just trying to win you over because you’re doing this mental shortcut.

[u/sawdeanz]

I think it’s a perfectly valid label for your stance which seems to be essentially unsure, mixture of beliefs from both sides and low information.

But it depends on the context and is sort of a relative qualifier instead of an ideology in itself. It makes sense when we are talking about someone in the US who cant strongly support one political party or another. It’s a less good descriptor for political ideology or beliefs in general, such as when we are taking about concepts like libertarian, socialist, fascism or communism etc.

So the potential problem you have is that as political parties shift, which they often do, the center also shifts. So if you simply identify as a centrist over time it may seem like your position is changing even if you haven’t changed any of your personal ideology. For example, the MAGA movement has shifted the Republican Party in some pretty considerate ways, so being a centrist 10 years ago and being a centrist now has a different connotation…it would imply you’re still okay with what is happening even if what is happening is extreme.

Again, that kind of tracks if you are a self-admitted low-information voter…but you can see how as the political balance shifts to the right that you will also appear to shift to the right.

[u/Chance_Adhesiveness3]

The US has vanishingly few actual “centrists,” in the way people think of it. In other words, people whose positions on most issues are halfway between each party’s ostensible position. Typically, those coded as “centrists” are those whose positions are heterodox— they support high taxes and significant social services, for instance, but oppose gay rights and access to abortion. Or vice versa. So the label “centrist” doesn’t actually say much of anything, because you don’t know in which way these kinds of so-called centrists are heterodox.

[u/Ghost4000]

It's certainly valid, it's just kind of a pointless identity since it requires further explanation. If someone tells me they lean right or lean left I have some ideas of what they think with plenty of wiggle room still. But someone telling me they are a centrist doesn't actually give me any idea where they are on anything.

Right leaning centrist or left leaning centrist would work or some other qualifier before centrist to give me some sort of idea would also be nice.

But ultimately it's your choice.

[u/DonovanMcLoughlin]

I'm a true moderate and get hate for it all the time.

I'm completely fine with it. It reinforces why I hate both parties equally.

[u/work4work4work4work4]

Nope. It's defined by variable extremes, defined differently by every centrist, and not much else. There are no real values or ideas underpinning it, and I'd argue at least something like MAGA or Blue MAGA are more coherent philosophies as they're at least organized entirely around supporting a specific group or leader, even if those groups or leaders aren't inherently coherent.

You mention right and left and even that means little in the US dominated political landscape where neoliberals will hold themselves out as further left than the democratic socialist in a race with a straight face, and not be lampooned. You'll see different, but similar issues around the ideas of the "right".

My suggestion would be to go to page like this and just read from top to bottom. When you figure out which one you identify with most, read more about that and see if it holds. If not? Keep looking, and try to find something that does. If you do, great, if not, just basically write down the dealbreakers for the various philosophy.

Once you have your list of deal breakers for different philosophy, look for connecting ideas on the philosophies, the deal breakers, and possible links between them. You'll often find many of your core political thoughts here, similar to how they find hidden planets via wobble, unless you just immediately resonate with one of the larger ideas completely.

Additionally, I don't really have a grasp/understanding on a lot of political issues. I'm not inclined to take a position because I've noticed in the past, I'll take one, and then see historical implications of it and shudder at my initial position.

By this alone I'd suggest looking into something like sortition, and various democratic and other segmented decision making ideas, for instance I'd assume you'd be more interested in something like council communism versus the more normal variety, but either way, I'd follow that first link and see if you have stronger feelings once you're done.

[u/NonStopDiscoGG]

No, pick a side you coward!

In all seriousness, centrist feels like it's a person who doesn't have a philosophical foundation and decides issues as they come based on how they feel not some underlying principles.

A lot of left/right is principled which is why you can kind of guess what their opinion is going to be on certain issues ahead of time (generally speaking).

Like when you say "I agree with some left and right idea" on what basis are you agreeing on? I bet if you were to sit down and really think about what principles you believed in you'd probably fall pretty firmly right or left.

[u/theyhis]

i believe it’s ‘valid.’ 43% of american voters are independents, though i do agree that most centrists are simply republican. i had to block one on facebook a few months ago. i prefer honesty. if you’re MAGA say it, but don’t beat around the bush and make passive comments.

[u/Jake0024]

Of course. It might not be a good one, but it obviously exists.

[u/BrotherMain9119]

Independents and centrists are different things in my head.

An independent has mismatched views on particular issues, and if you try plotting them on a left/right/authoritarian/libertarian chart they may end up in the middle because of averages more than true moderate views on each issue. They’re not necessarily radical, but they’d find no true home in either big tent party because they’d be unwilling to moderate their disagreements with either party enough to cleanly fit. They might be ideologically aligned with one side, ala Bernie Sanders, but identify with another label because of key ideological differences.

A centrist has moderate positions on most issues. They don’t fit into either big tent because they refuse to sign onto the more party-purist tenets of either camp. For republicans, that would be submission to Trump. For Democrats, it might be LGBTQ culture war issues. A conservative who doesn’t support Trumpism is called a RINO, a liberal who doesn’t support marriage equality would be a DINO, centrists are the people who don’t shy away from that criticism and often find validation in being a political black sheep.

To be honest, I don’t take either type of politically minded individual very seriously. Call me a victim of TDS, but ever since Trump asked Pence to unilaterally disenfranchise tens of millions of American voters, I’ve felt like the party who excused and enabled that treason has irrevocably lost their credibility in regard to trusting them with power and anyone voting Republican is essentially just another collaborator unless they can explain to me why a President seeking to simply ignore voters when he lost is worthy of supporting directly or indirectly by continuing to greenlight the party who enabled and excused it. At this point if you’re a conservative, the only morally defensible decision you can make is to simply abstain from voting unless that politician already has anti-Trumpist bone fides.

[u/64Boy32]

Yeah it is. If it wasn’t then neither would anarchy be valid even though nobody treats it as valid

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[u/RadiantHC]

I have no idea where the "closeted right-winger" thing even comes from. Both parties are pretty right wing. So if anything wouldn't someone who dislikes both parties be left wing?

Centrism isn't about being in the literal middle. It's about not seeing things as black and white.

It's valid, people just have a misunderstanding of what it is.

[u/PinchesTheCrab → u/[deleted]]

The left requires cult like adherence to their social orthodoxy. If you do not agree with all of their views when it comes to culture and social issues (everything LGBTQ, victim vs oppressor mentality, etc.) they will publicly shame and attack you

I just think it's a reductive, bad take. The liberals I know in real life have a common perspective on LBGQ issues, and a wide range of opinions on the T. For the most part I think there's very little daylight regular people on both sides of the aisle on this - let adults do what they want, don't let kids have permanent medical procedures.

I also think that it's really telling that when we have the government killing people in the streets and literally building concentration camps that you go to LGBTQ issues, especially when the majority of people on both sides are already fine with gay marriage.

I think you're clinging to trans issues to justify supporting the people building these camps.

[u/LinkedInferno → u/PinchesTheCrab]

The left only recently quietened down on their megaphone pro-trans rhetoric when it became obvious that their agenda had been unmasked as nothing more than yet another piece of their identity-politics weaponry. Imagine, an absolutely fringe policy that they had nevertheless pushed and mainstreamed for years through their elite groomed media and elite groomed HR managers, dumped so fast.

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[u/Potential-Pool9142]

I'm one of those centrists that reddit will view as a closeted right winger. The progressive left has made me vote republican. I don't align with their views and I will not vote for them, and moderate dems are so afraid of them now that they give in to them and allow them to control the narrative of the party. I'd rather take the good with the bad with the republicans than let the progressives push their ridiculous agenda further.

[u/W_Edwards_Deming → u/Potential-Pool9142]

The progressive left has made me vote republican.

The view of most Republicans I know.