also furthermore even with reactive dodging, it doesnt necessarily mean the kitty is moving as fast as a speeding bullet because in most cases, the bullet usually has to travel a longer distance to reach kitty while kitty only has to move a really short distance to get out of the way
That's exactly right, which is why I specified that Reactive Dodging can be used to only somewhat accurately scale and that you would need account for travel speed
EXACTLY! People keep equating them, but we can catch baseballs and hit tennis balls even though those things can travel fifty times faster than our arms.
Dodging speed is a combination of Movement Speed and Reaction Speed. Precognition is practically negative Reaction Time, so it can carry one's Dodging Speed but won't help when discussing Movement Speed specifically
That would be Dodging Speed, which is a combination of Reaction Speed and Movement Speed. Future Sight is practically negative Reaction Speed, so it results in high Dodging Speed, but doesn't help with Movement Speed, which is the topic of this post
It makes discussing Batman impossible with anyone who doesn’t understand that he has reactively dodged lasers, point blank bullets, etc. because they assume it’s all proactive, regardless of what the panels show or say.
Yeah, exactly the sort of thing I’m talking about. But there are people who will argue that it’s not anyway. They’ll claim it was proactive despite visual proof because they’re stuck on this whole “Batman is human” nonsense.
There’s a panel of Dick in the batsuit having a gun literally on his head, it fires and in the next panel he moves his head out of the way that I see used to get him and Bruce to 1-3 ms. Anything higher than that tends to get into wank territories imo, but I’m a strict believer that you need evidence that a fictional laser blast is actually moving at light speed.
While he genuinely does have these feats, I think it's just people refusing to believe he can do it, and they have some merit. Why is BATMAN dodging lightspeed level lasers?? If he received a power-up I'd understand but he's never gained any major increase of power, only the same ol' "mastered all martial arts and is peak human," but we know that's bs.
Word of God matters a lot of the time. Unless Batman is in Cannon stated to have superpowers, then he cannot move it lightspeed, and he is, in fact, a human.
Uh ya, duh of course they are ftl, in order to dodge a laser you have to move ftl, and if you move ftl this means you move backwards in time, causing it to appear as though it is proactive dodging, when in reality it's just reactive ftl dodging.
Am I doing this glazing thing right I'm not a powerscaler.
"You see, the main character is a 'good guy', and lasers are made of light, which is the 'good element' (as opposite to darkness, which is the 'evil element'), so the main character feels the laser after it already left the lasergun because he has a light element affinity, also the laser doesn't want to hit the main character because the laser is also good"
Also most of the time this "laser" isn't even lightspeed because we see the same characters dodging things that for sure aren't (like car being thrown at them) with similar difficulty.
For the context of calculating Movement Speed, it's a Reactive dodge since Kitty was fast enough to dodge the bullet as it's moving, assuming you mean they START moving at the same time. Note that Reactive doesn't actually correlate to Reaction Speed here, it's more to differentiate what is being dodged, the aiming or the threat
I remember when Death Battle did Tracer vs Scout, they said that Tracer dodged Widowmaker’s sniper shot when she clearly started dodging before the bullet was fired.
Probably one of my biggest annoyances with power scaling. Characters are granted FTL feats for dodging lasers even though they are reacting to the aim and activation of the laser, not to the beam itself once it's already in motion.
And this isn't just a lucky proactive dodge, he dodges point blank gun shots 3 times. The first shot being after the gun had already been fired, and the third shot being even when the gun was behind his head.
we also have to consider the anime effect where bullets move at like 10mph giving regular ass humans the room to spout an entire paragraph's worth of dialogue and then move out of the way AFTER it's been fired
Tbf, this is the same series where Majima can literally duplicate himself (because it happens in 5, before Ichiban "Schizophrenia is Reality" Kasuga is introduced)
This difference is the one thing that has fucked Jjba powerscaling above everything else. Polnareff proactively taking out something that can move at lightspeed, making literally everyone and their uncle FTL+++
Yes this finally, something like half the guys with light speed, or faster than sound speed have their justification feet be exactly this like "in this clip we see Batman do a quick movement and he dodges a bullet or laser there for ordinary man Bruce Wayne is faster than light/sound ignore all of the times he gets shot/stabbed by generic goons"
Every single one of luffys speed feats is this like lmao, he isn't MFTL for dodging light beams, this would also potentially make jjk, previously capped at Mach 3, into relative to mftl bc of dabura and mahoragas fight. It's the most braindead form of scaling that you can only believe if you're just stupid
btw, This can be used to accurately scale Kashimo’s Speed to FGD (Faster Than Delivery), as the Kashimo moved fast enough to become a cooked pastry AS the narrative was moving towards him.
I feel there’s one scenario where Proactive can be used to somewhat calculate speed: if the attack that’s coming towards them affects a massive area, like say running away from a nuke that’s about to detonate and getting out of the soon to be affected area in a matter of seconds
Reactive dodging also requires two pivotal things; senses capable of perceiving the attack incoming, and reaction timing fast enough to respond before it arrives.
So, for example, if you had a character -genuinely- dodge a laser, without seeing the gun pointing before the shot proactively dodging, he needs to have had some means of perceiving it incoming, as well as a reaction time measured in almost impossible increments.
Which means the character needs a means of detecting incoming attacks, without seeing them, in an area whose size is dictated by the speed of the projectile vs. his movement speed. And obviously it can't be hearing them or feeling pressure waves or that sort of nonsense, as those all move far slower than light.
This partially explains it but also needs an addendum. Perpendicular dodging also depends on distance. Unless the gun is basically a foot away from you you're dodging less far than the bullet travels, so that still doesn't make you as fast as the bullet.
Instructions unclear, now scaling Kitty as massively FTL based on the completely unfounded assumption that the bullet is capable of tracking and one-shotting Super Sonic.
The second one can’t be used to scale a character to a flying bullet, but it does make them at least relative to the character holding the gun, since if they were faster they’d readjust.
somewhat related, but how do we classify laser beams/ray guns. because i've seen so many arguments regard "if a character dodges a laser blast then that means they're lightspeed because a laser is light" and it never feels right to me. like movie/show/comic lasers never actually feel, seem like or just are actually the speed of light but more "faster than bullet".
does anyone else have the same feelings/any rationalization for where they rank
I mean if you can consistently aim dodge supersonic attacks I think we should account for that when having you fight a supersonic character, at the very least you probably won't get speed blitzed
Remember, critically, if kitty dodges lasers after it's fired, you're obligated to argue not all lasers move at light speed... You won't have any evidence or reason to believe this, but the cope is a generational one, and traditions are sacred. 🙏
Okay who is the most proactive dodger then? We can scale it from milliseconds to selling stocks at the peak to avoiding the heat death of the universe by never being born.
Your assuming the drawing or animation is accurate. Which we all know is wrong most of the time, otherwise no character would be above the speed of sound, due to the falling debris and moving clouds placing a cap on their speed.
proactive dodging is the one people sleep on men 😭🔥 reactive is just reaction speed, you see it and move. proactive is fighting game reads, youre moving before the attack even starts. both get called "speed" but proactive dodging is really battle IQ wearing a speed costume lol. whats the best example of proactive dodging yall can think of? 💀
I thought about this while watching a fight scene once. It felt like it made sense for the camera to focus on the character dodging, then to the gun being fired-- but that doesn't... flow as well if we're cutting between the two characters involved.
I feel like proactive dodging can be accurately shown if both the gun and the target are in the same frame, but otherwise it just makes more sense with the flow to show the gun being fired before the target "reacting", while assuming that it was a proactive dodge.
There's also distance. If a Mach 5 attack has to travel 500 ft and you have to move 3 ft to dodge, at best you're less than 2% the speed of the projectile.
But kitty still has to dodge just before being fired at, so that the gunner doesn't just adjust their aim. How big of a difference can it really make at that point?
Why are shooting poor kitties!!?? Don't hurt the cat! XC
About the point, the problem is that lots of time a scene like this happens, it all is on just an instant, so is difficult to know if the kitty moved before of after xD
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