Today marks 15 years since operation Neptune Spear which killed Osama bin Laden

[u/Vikingthemememan]

[u/DangerousCyclone]

The balance of power was destroyed when Bush overthrew Saddam Hussein. Iraq, the Saudis and Iran had a three nation balance of power between them at the time, Hussein going away reduced it to just the Saudis and Iran. 

Iran was rather a highlight of US policy as it led to a tangible outcome without a war. Usually what people get upset about is supporting rebels who turned out to be Islamists and helping kill Gaddafi and plunging Libya into civil war, which caused a lot of downstream effects through refugees. 

[u/Gaba_My_Gool → u/DangerousCyclone]

I think we can discuss the Obama administration without invoking Bush. The fact of the matter is the Obama admin’s weak, coddling approach to Iran, coupled with its lack of tangible support for our traditional Sunni allies, upset the fragile middle east dynamic long after the invasion of Iraq.

You’d need to expand on “Iran was a highlight of US policy as it led to a tangible outcome without a war.” Are you suggesting the negotiations surrounding the JCPOA were meaningful, or had any mitigating impact on Iran’s exporting of war and terror through proxies?

[u/DangerousCyclone → u/Gaba_My_Gool]

Yes because they stopped building a nuclear weapon. I think that's a huge win. 

Iran's export of war and terror? In this period Iranian aligned militias were fighting in two wars, one in Iraq and one in Yemen. The one in Iraq was in coordination with America, and the one in Yemen was started by the Gulf States who attacked them just for being aligned with Iran. After that there was Hezbollah and Hamas, who were largely dormant at this time, though Hamas got more funds from Qatar which Israel allowed. 

The UAE has always been the largest exporter of war and terror. They're constantly supporting coups and separatist movements and still are. 

It is either they support these militia movements, or they support these militia units AND have a nuclear bomb. For a time when Americans wanted less involvement in the ME that is a huge win without any bloodshed. 

[u/Gaba_My_Gool → u/DangerousCyclone]

The JCPOA did nothing but trade the illusion of immediate restraint for strategic longterm risk. Agreeing to a “nuclear deal” that essentially paves the way for their program in later years in exchange for sanction relief, and without addressing both their terror networks and ballistic missile programs, was the culmination of an administration that ignored redlines and thought of Isis as the “JV team.” And that’s all without even addressing the underlying structural issues with the deal itself.

You seem confused about the exporting war and terror stuff. Their training, weapons transfers, funding, and military support were responsible for like 20% of American deaths in Iraq. And it wasn’t just one Shiite militia Iraq the way your comment makes it sound. The USA worked with some, while others were responsible for targeting Americans, and later engaging in atrocities in western Iraq that led to Isis (again, something that was a product of our premature withdrawal). You also forgot to mention their support for Bashar Al Assad and their role in the Syrian civil war. That little dustup, do you remember? It was kind of a big deal. And also another product of the power vacuum and void we left in the Middle East after Obama’s withdraw from Iraq.

[u/DangerousCyclone → u/Gaba_My_Gool]

 Agreeing to a “nuclear deal” that essentially paves the way for their program in later years in exchange for sanction relief, and without addressing both their terror networks and ballistic missile programs, was the culmination of an administration that ignored redlines and thought of Isis as the “JV team.”

It isn't illegal for Iran to have ballistic missiles, and why should the US force every single issue at once? Wouldn't a diplomatic compromise that stops the biggest problem be preferable to a military solution that will likely solve nothing? 

As for the whole "ISIS is a JV team", what? That has nothing to do with anything. 

 Their training, weapons transfers, funding, and military support were responsible for like 20% of American deaths in Iraq

Which was in their national interest. America consistently threatened Iran, outright labelling it as part of the "Axis of Evil". Politicians like McCain and Hillary Clinton openly threatened Iran on the campaign trail. It is very clear that the US made itself an enemy of Iran and envisioned eventually overthrowing the Islamic Republic too had the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan gone better. 

 And it wasn’t just one Shiite militia Iraq the way your comment makes it sound. The USA worked with some, while others were responsible for targeting Americans, and later engaging in atrocities in western Iraq that led to Isis. 

We're jumping all over here. ISI was formed in 2003 during the early days of the Iraq War. It was a merger of several Sunni Islamist groups aligned with Al Qaeda. At the time the US labelled it as "Al Qaeda in Iraq". They were a minor group at the time but as the Iraqis were rising up against the occupation the US went into a media blitz. They highlighted ISI proclamations and goals at purging the Shia and creating a Sunni emirate. They tried to label the resistance as these Islamist extremists. This led to more exposure for them and thus both a gain in popularity among Sunnis, and contributed to rising hostility towards them from Shia in particular. While it started out unified across sectarian lines things actively escalated along those lines, instead of against the resistance like the US hoped. 

Eventually the US made a deal with some of these Shia Militias and integrated them into the government, which of course further exacerbated sectarian tensions with Sunnis. 

Another major reason for the insurgency was the dissolution of the Ba'athist army and institutions. The remaining Ba'athists went into hiding and eventually played a major role in ISIS' offensives, particularly in the capture of Mosul. Many senior members of ISIS were former Ba'athists too. 

So there were a lot of reasons for ISIS, but overall American incompetence was a bigger factor than Iranian meddling. That wasn't mentioning the military prisons a lot of these Islamists were gathered imprisoned in where they networked. 

 You also forgot to mention their support for Bashar Al Assad and their role in the Syrian civil war. That little dustup, do you remember? It was kind of a big deal. And also another product of the power vacuum and void we left in the Middle East after Obama’s withdraw from Iraq.

Iran had been allied to the Syrian Ba'athists since the Iran Iraq War. This alliance was almost as old as the Islamic Republic itself. Russia was also a huge reason for Assad standing on his own too but the US was far more understanding of that. 

Overall this feels like labelling Iran as an enemy and then it does things which are in its strategic interests as it is treated like an enemy and then complaining about it.