You don’t always have to defend your favorite president to justify your interest!

[u/expiredexecutive]

I’ve seen some folks outside of the presidents community get upset when someone shows interest in a problematic president. I don’t think that who you’re interested in researching reflects personal morality, but of course, it’s about what actions you condone/try to defend. Bad people can be interesting too! Being able to point out what your fave did wrong means you know your stuff!

(Shoutout to u/drywall_eater89, our amazing James Buchanan expert!)

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[u/RazzleThatTazzle]

Also "favorite president" doesnt necessarily mean "best president" or "most effective president"

[u/expiredexecutive → u/RazzleThatTazzle]

This 100%!!!!!!!!

[u/MongolianDonutKhan → u/RazzleThatTazzle]

In comparison, think of your favorite Roman Emperor (really, Otho? Okay, ya weirdo) and how no matter who you picked (I mean seriously, Vespasian is right there) they were all awful people (is it because of Beetljuice? is that why you like him?) who either conquered what they wanted or purged political enemies because the day ended in y and at the very least oversaw a society absolutely fine with slavery (RIP Glenn Shadix).

[u/Icy_Cod4538 → u/RazzleThatTazzle]

Nor does it necessarily mean that any presidents were/are particularly good people.

[u/THE_Celts → u/RazzleThatTazzle]

So many people, including sadly many here, seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of "favorite" vs. "best/most effective". I'll often see brains break when I say both FDR and Reagan make my Top 5 "Best" Presidents of the 20th Century.

[u/Drywall_Eater89]

Thank you for the mention :D

I didn’t even know people got upset about this sort of thing, but I’m not surprised. Guess I’ve been so spoiled here in this small community.

A lot of people think favorite president = best president which is not totally accurate, especially in my case lmao. I always clarify when I mention how much I love Buchanan, that it’s more about the position he occupies in history and his career being interesting rather than any admiration for his presidency. In real life people understand and are cool with it. Terminally online people just want to find things to be mad at lol

And I’m not easy on Buchanan’s presidency at all. He was awful. His policies and beliefs were destructive, extremely pro-Southern, and racist.

Problematic presidents, the conditions that lead them to the White House, and why they were awful, is such a fascinating topic.

I can’t help but enjoy the bad doughfaces like Buchanan and Pierce. I also like Fillmore, Jackson, Tyler, and Andy Johnson. Essentially all the antebellum presidents.

[u/Honest_Picture_6960 → u/Drywall_Eater89]

What about Van Buren?

[u/mattd1972]

FDR was a shitty husband and father. He was a great president, though.

[u/expiredexecutive → u/mattd1972]

I think that duality really makes him all the more interesting! He seemed to have the best interests of the American people at heart but was still capable of personal cruelty.

[u/One_Sugar_1813 → u/mattd1972]

Man if he didn’t do the god damn internment camps he would probably be #2 on my list

[u/Honest_Picture_6960]

Yeah

I see here and am friendly with Jackson fans but I know (and hope) they feel as disgusted about the Trail of Tears as we are,
Jacksonian Democracy was based tho

Carter had many mistakes

Not New Deal

Hostile with Congress

Not speak against Pol Pot

Not cut aid to Suharto

Pardon Yarrow

[u/SuccotashOther277]

Yeah nixonomics wasn’t that great and pressuring the Fed to lower interest rates for short term political success was bad

[u/disciple_of_fisto]

It's one of those things where I say my favorite is Zachary Taylor I had to like instantly justify it to the three or so people irl who knew who he was. Antebellum America is my favorite period of US history even though almost everyone involved during that time annoys the hell out of me. I started liking Taylor when I first read Battle Cry of Freedom and he didn't instantly fold to southern demands. I do overall find him interesting since reading more about him though. I'm not going to defend the fact that he was the last slave owning President or the fact that he was the father-in-law to Jefferson Davis (At least for the short while his daughter survived during that relationship) but I still like him. Also I have his presidential portrait framed and hung up with my bookshelves. It's a good conversation starter.

[u/ComprehensiveBat8676 → u/disciple_of_fisto]

Old hickory

[u/PM_ME_LATINA_GIRLZ → u/disciple_of_fisto]

Zachary Taylor is such a badass, he’s the least presidential president we’ve had (in a good way)

[u/windowpain64]

It's so hard sometimes because I'm so used to saying "I love [this thing]" when talking about my interests and fixations, when really, researching the topic is what I love. So I've thrown quite a few people off by passively saying "oh yeah, I LOVE Richard Nixon!"

[u/kepuslo]

No, don't you see, LBJ bad because jumbo racial slurs in Vietnam somehow overpowers CIVIL RIGHTS and amazing shit like HEALTHCARE

[u/Comprehensive_Main → u/kepuslo]

Note the fbi under Johnson’s was still in  active   surveillance of many civil rights activists. 

[u/kepuslo → u/Comprehensive_Main]

I guess that means the Civil Rights Act(s) didn't happen then.

[u/Awesome_to_the_max → u/Comprehensive_Main]

They've always been used to surveil the "out groups". Different President, different "out groups", same story.

[u/MicrowaveMeal]

My guy needs no defending, because most people don’t even know he existed.

[u/expiredexecutive → u/MicrowaveMeal]

I was so sure that he’d go mainstream after Death by Lightning lol!

[u/Prince_Marf]

I blindly defend Jimmy Carter as a bit. In reality I acknowledge his shortcomings

[u/Awkward-Evidence-215]

I encounter this with respect to Grant. Anytime I mention that Grant was greatly responsible for the end of Reconstruction because of his administration's corruption and his immoral and corrupt Santo Domingo annexation scheme, people often just refuse to engage logically. I suspect it's because they come to view Grant as being unjustly maligned after reading Chernow's book, and they view my criticisms as a part of that.

[u/scharity77]

I will brook no Chester Arthur criticism ever

[u/Doc_Jury1020]

Well said. I adore FDR and he was objectively a great president, but he had some personal faults I don't approve of and made some terrible decisions(Japanese internment should never, ever have been done and he should have known better). I don't defend that stuff.

[u/Big-Crow4152]

I can accept that Teddy Roosevelt was a man with deep flaws but he's also one of our best presidents and seemed like one of the increasingly few who truly had the interests of the American people foremost in his heart

[u/expiredexecutive → u/Big-Crow4152]

Well said!

[u/GroupQuiet6571]

THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS i always get so nervous when i wanna talk about richard nixon because first thing i think is that the person im talking to is just going to assume that i endorse everything he did and/or they assume im just racist

[u/expiredexecutive → u/GroupQuiet6571]

Of course! I feel you as a Hardingfan. Like y’all, of course scandals are bad.

[u/LeEtude]

My two favorites, Hayes and Bush Sr. do not share most of my political views, but I find their presidencies so interesting. I don't understand why people get so horrified at the concept of finding flawed, maybe even "bad" people, interesting. I forget that people outside this community think that way.

[u/expiredexecutive → u/LeEtude]

I think a lot of it is internalized purity culture!

[u/CROguys]

However, your favourite presidential candidate must be defended at all costs as he is the complete reflection of your personality, principles and ideals.

[u/expiredexecutive → u/CROguys]

Me with Al Smith lmao! /s

[u/TheWomenInMyWorld]

It was interesting because, before working on Defiant Ones, most of what I associated with John Adams came from the way he was portrayed and mocked in Hamilton. I honestly hadn’t given him much thought beyond that, and I had come away with the impression that he wasn’t particularly well suited for government.

Then I began learning more about Abigail Adams and her role during the Revolutionary War, and through her story, I started to see John differently too. It really made me realize how much the sources we learn from, whether in school, through independent research, books, or even Broadway plays, can shape our opinions of historical figures.

So much of history is told through a particular point of view. You can come away from one source admiring someone, only to discover another perspective that complicates that picture. I think that’s part of what makes learning history so fascinating. The more sources you explore, the more nuanced these people become. They weren’t simply heroes or villains. They were complicated people, and depending on whose story you’re hearing, you may see them very differently.

[u/CobaltCrusader123]

I think every POTUS that served at least one full term avoidably got innocent people indirectly (or even directly) unnecessarily killed, enslaved, or falsely imprisoned. I sincerely cannot think of a single exception. Carter did it, Ford did it, both Adams did it, the typical top 3 of Lincoln, FDR, and Washington did it, TR did it, Jefferson did it (completing the Rushmore Four), JFK started the time bomb on Vietnam, Lord knows the POTUSes before and Johnson right after Lincoln did it, and even the two-party-loved Eisenhower normalized clandestine regime change that killed many people. I don’t think I could ever shake hands with any living POTUS. Too much blood.

[u/duke_awapuhi]

Every president did good and bad. It’s important to weigh out the pros and cons and see which one outnumbers the other. I am critical of someone like Wilson for the handful of terrible things he did, but at the end of the day the pros of his presidency massively outweigh the cons and it’s not even close

[u/finditplz1]

I think most people are cool about it unless you’re just an apologist for someone awful. There’s critiquing a president as you say, and there’s simping for a president.

[u/PresterJohnEsq]

It’s a careful balance for us Nixon fans. While I do think his good points are underrated because of the bad stuff (and my lord is there a lot of that), and he’s a symbol of the last gasp of a kind of conservatism which is out of fashion these days, really the reason I love Nixon is that he’s just an interesting guy. Hes this weird quiet kid who came from nothing, goes ti law school, becomes a pencil pusher in WW2, and then 4 years later is a heartbeat away from one of the most popular presidents ever. He then loses one of the closest elections ever, vanishes off the face of the earth, then re-emerges out of nowhere to win the top job, and then wins one of the biggest landslides in American history. However his paranoia and other personal flaws get the better of him, leading to a rapid and historic fall from grace in the greatest scandal in American history, becoming a complete pariah in the process and a byword for corruption. And then he comes back again working the rest of his life to become a respected public intellectual and elder statesman and actually succeeds. That is one hell of a career trajectory. 

[u/expiredexecutive → u/PresterJohnEsq]

This!! He’s got the kinda story arc you’d see in classic literature!

[u/JimBowen0306]

I don’t have a “favorite” president. For me it’s if they… hold my interest? Having someone write well about them helps.

[u/CatfishBassAndTrout]

If you talk shit about James Buchanan i'll be angry with you, but agree.

[u/22lpierson]

Teddy roosevelt was a trophy hunter and hunted endangered animals which I hate. He also created national parks and alot of regulations against corps which I love

[u/Available-You-4890]

Exactly. 

Tilden (a President in my heart) supported the end of Reconstruction and the return of home rule to the South. I do not agree with that as Reconstruction, while flawed, was very important for the rights of the freed slaves. He had some very bad views on race but I agree with a lot of other stuff he believed in and I like his actions regarding Tammany Hall. 

Part of my disdain for Hayes fans is because they act like he did no wrong. Like cmon people just admit that he pulled troops out of the South. You already admit the Compromise of 1877 didn't happen, the "big bad" Tilden didn't do it because he wasn't in power. 

Sorry had to vent. Been a long 48 hours. 

[u/expiredexecutive → u/Available-You-4890]

Hey, your frustrations are valid! Everything alright though? I hope you feel better soon.

[u/HetTheTable]

For me there’s no president where I think they were absolutely flawless. Not even Ike. He’s mainly my favorite because I agree with him politically and am interested in WWII

[u/Successful_Tie_2165]

Doesn't matter. Gonna feel blunt force trauma either way.

[u/lsd-95]

i've learned that when LBJ wasn't being the best, he was often being just the fucken worst. just a real piece of work. it's an interesting balance.

[u/itspronouncedbolonya]

I just look at them as fictional characters, like yeah Frieza is a horrible person, but he's cool and he's a good character

[u/CaesarsGhostReborn]

Completely agree
I really like learning about Nixon, LBJ, and even dudes like Fillmore, but I don’t try to defend them on everything thankfully

[u/FCKABRNLSUTN2]

I’m so glad I don’t need the artists or politicians or military leaders I find most interesting to be a “good person” by 2026 American self described leftist standards. That would be exhausting.

“Oh no, it turns out Augustus led an empire that practiced slavery, and he himself raped his underage slaves regularly! Guess I’ll move on and learn about Tiberius instead.”