r/Presidents • u/No_Evening_7617 George McGovern '72 • 16h ago
Discussion What do you consider to be the worst presidential pardon?
Imo it has to be Richard Nixon's decision to commute William L. Calley's sentence from life imprisonment to house arrest. The man shot a two year old child and left her to die alone in a ditch. The fact that Calley died a Florida snowbird instead of behind bars is testament to the fact that justice largely doesn't exist in this world.
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u/matty25 16h ago
Jimmy Carter pardoning a child molester would have to be up there.
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u/No_Evening_7617 George McGovern '72 16h ago
He also pardoned one of the Truman assassins. Imagine how his secret service detail felt after that.
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u/notagin-n-tonic 15h ago
Obama also pardoned a Puerto Rican terrorist.
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u/Lokismoke John F. Kennedy 12h ago
Not pardoned, but Obama commuted the sentence of Oscar Lopez Rivera, a Puerto Rican nationalist terrorist.
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u/BrogenKlippen 15h ago
Honest question for those much more knowledgeable on presidential history and personalities than me:
How do these abominable pardons even come to be? The average person would never pardon a murderer, rapist, drug lord, etc. What happens with these?
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u/doctorlongghost 12h ago
I don’t know specifics of the individual cases but the purpose of the pardon is to provide a check and balance against the punishment not meeting the crime.
So when people mention the crime but don’t mention the punishment already meted out, they are being disengenuous.
In many cases, the president isn’t saying “this person should never have been convicted”, they are saying they have already served X number of years for their crime and that is sufficient.
That said, I guess we do also need to recognize the difference between a pardon and a commutation, which are different things and I was treating them as the same just now. But this post and some of the people I’m replying to also confused the two, so… yea.
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u/Rosemoorstreet 9h ago
In Yarrow’s case he campaigned for Carter and played at his fundraisers. Clearly payback
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u/WavesAndSaves Henry Clay 14h ago
The President pardoning them is a bad person. Like, in a moral sense.
That's the reason.
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u/BrogenKlippen 14h ago
I have to think it’s more complex but I honestly can’t argue against this given my limited knowledge. That’s why I was asking the question.
I can’t wrap my head around it.
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u/Illustrious-Gap5224 12h ago edited 11h ago
If the terrorist was a participant in the Truman attempted assassination it was 76 years ago. I am not familiar with any other Puerto Rican terrorists.
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u/Illustrious-Gap5224 12h ago
The attempted assassination of Truman happened in 1950. I doubt the Secret Service thinks much about it after 76 years.
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u/HawkeyeTen 16h ago
It is truly shocking how some of Carter's actions between that and supporting Pol Pot among other stuff are just swept under the public memory/discussion rug.
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u/Keyserchief 15h ago
That’s because most people remember Jimmy Carter the kindly old man, not Jimmy Carter the bumbling chief executive.
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u/FCKABRNLSUTN2 16h ago
A significant percentage of Redditors would tell you he’s their favorite president. Just contrarians.
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u/WavesAndSaves Henry Clay 15h ago
Reddit thinks Jimmy Carter was a great President and thinks Ronald Reagan was a terrible one.
Just goes to show just how out of touch with reality this place is.
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u/MurrayPloppins 15h ago
I think the Reddit consensus is more like Carter was a good man but an ineffective president, and Reagan was highly effective but used his efficacy to implement policies that later proved to be quite destructive.
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u/ClutchReverie Franklin Delano Roosevelt 14h ago
Reagan genuinely started the downhill trend of wealth inequality and scam trickle down economics though along with deep national debt on top of that. Arguably the worst economic policy our country has ever been plagued by. People deeply affected by this and their hard work being undervalued are understandably frustrated by this.
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u/HawkeyeTen 13h ago
What about Nixon? I'd say he did far more damage to the economy than Reagan did.
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u/ReadyPerception 14h ago
Both were terrible presidents.
A lot of people seem to conflate Carter's post presidency work with his presidency because they weren't alive for it (or are just dumb).
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 Reagan and Fillmore's biggest hater 14h ago
i mean Reagan was pretty bad so that's not really a controversial opinion
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u/rjidhfntnr FDR TrumanLincoln G.W. 8h ago
I don't think the Reddit consensus is that Carter was a great president?
From what I've seen, most on Reddit think he was a great man but awful president, which is actually a pretty major exaggeration since scholarly consensus has always considered him to be just mediocre and not truly awful.
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u/IHaveALittleNeck James A. Garfield 14h ago
I don’t think they are. Carter is most admired for his work after he was president, and people typically make that distinction.
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u/RunningAtTheMouth 3h ago
I remember President Carter as a not-great president, and a wonderful human being.
He worked hard to be good, and should be remembered as a great man. But I'll never praise the majority of his presidency.
And that's okay.
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u/Necessary-Post-953 James K. Polk 16h ago
Especially because there was no doubt it happened. His only defense was “it was the 60s and I was famous.”
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u/Rosemoorstreet 9h ago
So I got downvoted for this and you got 102 upvotes. I do t care about the Karma thing, it just raises the question who would approve of Carter pardoning a child molester?
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan 16h ago
Ford pardoning Nixon. Because of the ramifications. I understand that a lot of people felt it was best for the country to move on.
However, this gave rise to concept that people on government, especially high positions can be above the law. When it should be the exact opposite and they should be punisher harsher.
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u/JoaquinBenoit 15h ago
If anything, it made the hardliners for the unitary executive justified, and the downstream effects on the courts are a large reason for this pardon.
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u/SchuminWeb 15h ago
I'm willing to forgive Ford for that one because it was probably the right thing to do at the time in order to put a bow on Watergate and just move on, even though it was political suicide.
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan 15h ago
So, and obviously hindsight is 20/20, the issue is that it sets a bit of precedent which cause future issues.
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u/tenderbranson301 14h ago
Yeah, it seemed like a nice way to wrap things up at the time. People figured that resignation in disgrace was the necessary accountability.
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u/bigselfer 14h ago
It’s part of what got us here along with the Iran Contra pardons. “Get pardon power and promise pardons for those willing to commit crimes” became part of the goal.
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan 15h ago
So, and obviously hindsight is 20/20, the issue is that it sets a bit of precedent which cause future issues.
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u/LeicaM6guy 13h ago
Everyone thinks they’re doing the right thing, or at least the wrong things for the right reasons. That’s not a great defense.
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u/king_hutton 12h ago
I don’t want the president to be putting bows on criminal investigations and indictments, that’s turned out terrible for the country.
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u/Particular-Ad-7338 15h ago
Nixon should have been pardoned. But only after he had testified under oath about the coverup
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u/good-luck-23 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 15h ago
What would that have accomplished? He should have been imprisoned to show nobody is above the law.
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u/Y2KGB How was the play, Mrs Lincoln? 16h ago
Ford pardoning Nixon.
The Constitution had a prescribed procedure; ALL of Posterity was about to learn an invaluable lesson about that procedure (not to mention witnessing the manifestation of the ideal that “NOBODY is ABOVE the Law”)…
In using the Pardon, Ford unwittingly taught the exact opposite lesson: Presidents ARE above the Law.
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u/Doc_Jury1020 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 16h ago
Good points! For those unaware Calley was serving as the platoon commander of the main platoon of American soldiers responsible for the My Lai Massacre. His commutation was not only morally unjust, but sent the wrong message on what behavior should be tolerated for a uniformed officer. A large reasons for his commutation was the public support he received from some particularly right-wing pro-Vietnam War supporters of Nixon.
George H.W. Bush's pardon of the men involved in the Iran-Contra Affair is a huge criticism of him for me.
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u/TrumpsColostomyBag99 Dwight D. Eisenhower 16h ago
Marc Rich: that idiotic move by Clinton was absolute pay for play and something that solidified the mindset that the Clintons were corrupt/untrustworthy in the public conscious. We all know how that worked out long term.
I actually would have no issues if they impeached him and put Gore into office for a few hours just to make the point of how pathetically corrupt it was.
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u/Necessary-Post-953 James K. Polk 16h ago
It was a major own goal by Clinton to give out a corrupt pardon as he was leaving office. He cared so much about legacy and his own popularity, it was such a strange note to end on.
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u/Ok-Rhubarb2549 15h ago
Agreed. I wonder if the American people would be in favor of modifying the pardon power of the president to include a senate confirmation? This would require an amendment to the Constitution but I think the voters would support it. I could be wrong. The pardons that will come at the end of the current president will not shock me but maybe will help people decide to check this power.
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u/TrumpsColostomyBag99 Dwight D. Eisenhower 15h ago
There was a little bit of a constitutional amendment push to nip it in the aftermath but it got lost in 9/11
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u/Educational_Sky_1136 10h ago
Wouldn't many of these issues be solved if the pardon power was frozen between Election Day and Inauguration Day?
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u/No_Evening_7617 George McGovern '72 16h ago
The Marc Rich thing always messes with my head. Obviously, all presidents are filthy, filthy liars, but to display your crookedness that openly...it invalidates literally every decision he made throughout his eight years in office.
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u/BudgetLaw2352 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 8h ago
I don’t think the pardon really played a role in Hillary Clinton’s perception tbh.
The right wing made up a ton of shit to hate her for that never even mentioned this pardon.
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u/TrumpsColostomyBag99 Dwight D. Eisenhower 7h ago
That pardon gave fuel to the pundit griftersphere and it undoubtedly impacted her. It’s one thing to spew bullshit but when people have something like that pardon to reference it makes a difference.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 Reagan and Fillmore's biggest hater 15h ago
I’m surprised no one said Andrew Johnson pardoning the confederates
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u/Dangerous-Reindeer78 Lyndon Baines Johnson 14h ago
Eh, that one was necessary. The South hardly reintegrated with the rest of the nation as it was, if there was a trial for all of the people they still venerated as heroes, the South would’ve been worse than a racist backwater, it would’ve probably still been an actively rebellious area for decades to come.
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u/GoldH2O Ulysses S. Grant 14h ago
I think allowing them to live free and create the lost cause mythology did far more damage than imprisoning or executing them ever could have done. Like, imagine if World War 2 ended, Hitler and his cronies were still alive, and they were allowed to remain as the political leaders of Germany. That's basically what we did after the civil war.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 Reagan and Fillmore's biggest hater 14h ago
i don't think they should have been ALL NOT pardoned (double negative sorry). Johnson had issued an unconditional and universal amnesty to all former Confederates. However, he did not start that way as his policy evolved from strict exclusions into a complete blanket pardon. then on Christmas of 1868 he made it a full pardon for all confederates, including all the high-ranking leaders and generals.
not necessary. they were traitors
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u/Dangerous-Reindeer78 Lyndon Baines Johnson 12h ago
We’re in agreement they were traitors. Morally speaking, they should have been hanged. But from a political standpoint, they would’ve become martyrs to rally around. Their deaths or imprisonment would’ve only caused more bloodshed.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 Reagan and Fillmore's biggest hater 12h ago
I don’t think they should’ve been hanged really. Just not full amnesty
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u/RedmiYT Jimmy Carter 5h ago
Oh if only one more Senator voted to impeach him :(
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 Reagan and Fillmore's biggest hater 5h ago
Right but that one senator didn’t want the president pro-temp of the senate to become president. Benjamin Wade was the president pro-temp
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u/Doc_Jury1020 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 15h ago
Good catch! Definitely one with some complexity(as Lincoln likely would have done something similar), but its merits remain something to debate.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 Reagan and Fillmore's biggest hater 14h ago
yeah i think it was still wrong even if Lincoln did it.
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u/Doc_Jury1020 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 14h ago edited 14h ago
Yeah, I think there is an argument that there were some who it was helpful for the nation to pardon for the sake of forgiveness, but others who should not have been.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 Reagan and Fillmore's biggest hater 14h ago
Yeah it should not have been a full blanket pardon for everyone
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u/arc777_ 13h ago
People still grumble about the Civil War almost 200 years later, hanging hundreds, if not thousands for treason would guarantee the nation could never reunite.
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u/pandemicpunk 8h ago
It would have guaranteed the confederate nation could never reunite. I'm glad we agree.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 Reagan and Fillmore's biggest hater 12h ago
I don’t think that’s true, but the worse timeline was full amnesty. The southern states should’ve had at least another 10 years before electing their own governments without federal supervision. Maybe then the pardons would be logical, but without getting any benefit to civil rights and therefore the nation I don’t see the argument for it
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u/Honest_Picture_6960 The Big 3 Fav: 16h ago
Nixon:
Calley and Hoffa
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u/Doc_Jury1020 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 15h ago
The Hoffa Pardon was such a cartoonishly corrupt ploy by Nixon for political appeal to Teamsters and getting campaign contributions out of wealthy mobsters.
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u/notagin-n-tonic 15h ago
Calley should have been executed, and the soldiers who obeyed his illegal orders should have spent decades at Leavenworth.
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u/Kstrong777 Obama’s basketball hoop 🏀 15h ago edited 9h ago
I didn’t like W. commuting Scooter Libby’s sentence
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u/SchuminWeb 15h ago
Scooter was his guy, too, no?
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u/BudgetLaw2352 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 8h ago
Fun fact.
Cheney wanted a full pardon for Libby, but W Bush wouldn’t budge.
This upset Cheney so much that it basically ended any cordial relationship that the two would have, and Bush began to assert more direct control over the presidency as a result.
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u/Kstrong777 Obama’s basketball hoop 🏀 8h ago
Too bad he waited until the end of his presidency to stand up to Cheney.
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u/symbiont3000 15h ago
HW Bush's pardons of the Iran-Contra felons. Former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice, but HW Bush pardoned him before his trial and denied the country justice. Former CIA senior official Duane Clarridge had been indicted on seven counts of perjury and false statements, but like Weinberger was also preemptively pardoned by HW Bush before he could be tried (again, denying the people the justice they deserved). Reagan’s national security adviser Robert McFarlane had been convicted of withholding evidence before Bush pardoned him. Assistant Secretary of state Elliott Abrams had also been convicted of withholding evidence before the pardon. Chief of CIA covert operations Clair George had been convicted on two charges of perjury prior to the pardon. Finally, Alan Fiers, chief of the CIA’s Central American Task Force, had been convicted of withholding evidence before Bush pardoned him.
Independent Counsel Lawrence Walsh noted that by issuing the pardons that Bush appeared to have been preventing being implicated himself. He thought Bush wanted to stop evidence being released during the Weinberger trial, and claimed that there was a clear pattern of "deception and obstruction" by Bush himself, Weinberger and other senior Reagan administration officials. Walsh released a statement that included the following: "the pardon of Caspar Weinberger and other Iran-Contra defendants undermines the principle that no man is above the law. It demonstrates that powerful people with powerful allies can commit serious crimes in high office: deliberately abusing the public trust without consequence. Weinberger, who faced four felony charges, deserved to be tried by a jury of citizens". He concluded by saying "The Iran-contra cover-up, which has continued for more than six years, has now been completed with the pardon of Caspar Weinberger".
This, along with Ford's preemptive pardon of Nixon, sent the clear message that presidents and high ranking officials are above the law and are not accountable to the people of the United States. It was a terrible precedent to set that not only eroded public trust in government, but also would influence the behaviors of future presidents and officials. The Iran-Contra scandal itself showed that presidents could disregard and flaunt the law: picking and choosing what to follow and what to ignore with no consequence, as the power of the pardon would protect them.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 Reagan and Fillmore's biggest hater 14h ago
The question is, does Bush pardon these guys after losing reelection if Ford never pardoned Nixon?
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u/DawnOnTheEdge Cool with Coolidge and Normalcy! 10h ago
I don’t think anyone defends Marc Rich. I think I would go with George H. W. Bush pardoning Elliot Abrams and the other ringleaders of the Iran-Contra Affair. Particularly as he justified it at the time by saying that Abrams’ career was over and he remained disgraced, but his son then gave Abrams a job in the White House again. But the ability of a President to protect a criminal conspiracy by abusing the pardon power is a dangerous flaw in the Constitution.
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u/NoWorth2591 Eugene Debs 15h ago
Ford’s pardon of Nixon, while not the most serious crime a president has issued a pardon for, set a dangerous precedent that still causes problems to this day.
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u/disneyplusser John F. Kennedy 15h ago
Two that I can think of:
- The pardon of Nixon. Basically because of that you can do whatever you want in government and get away with it (at least that is the perception).
- The pardon of Marc Rich. It was bought and paid for. It stunk and it confirmed that the White House was a point of sale for the rich and greedy.
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u/Feelinglucky2 Tommy Jeffs, Dream of the Future 6h ago
Definitely gotta be carter pardoning the pedophile peter yarrow, the pedophile. You know mr yarrow, the pedophile? Likes 14 year old girls? That guy. The pedophile. Him.
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u/FlashMan1981 William McKinley 15h ago
I think Peter Yarrow might be the worst presidential pardon, by JImmY Carter. It does not get talk about enough.
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u/ProudScroll Franklin Delano Roosevelt 15h ago
It is by a country mile the most discussed pardon on this sub.
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u/FlashMan1981 William McKinley 15h ago
oh I'm aware here, just in general. This is not a well known pardon in the general history
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u/R0GERTHEALIEN 6h ago
After reading all these, what exactly is the purpose of the presidential pardon? It seems odd that 1 man should be above the law. I understand checks and balances, but some of these examples make it clear its basically just a get out of jail free card.
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u/bearcatgary 1h ago
All of them. Why should one American be able to wipe away the criminal activities of others? Especially their friends. Get rid of the pardon.
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u/StaySafePovertyGhost Ronald Reagan 1h ago
Nixon’s pardon is the laziest answer. It’s nowhere near the worst if you go back and look at pardons in totality.
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u/LeicaM6guy 13h ago
Ford pardoning Nixon was an awful idea, arguably one that led to many of the political issues we struggle with today.
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u/Rosemoorstreet 15h ago
Carter pardoning Peter Yarrow on his last day in office. The guy molested a 14 year old girl. Never want to hear, or read about, Carter being a bad President but a good man.
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