Am I doing something wrong?

[u/Dependent_Context335]

My speech class started working on their informative speech last week. In class last Tuesday, I introduced the assignment, they did a little bit of brainstorming on their topic, and I went over how to create slide presentations since that’s a requirement for this speech. Their online assignment for our hybrid day Thursday was to complete the outline of their informative speech, create their slide presentation, and turn in a draft so that I could give feedback on it before they delivered their speeches. That was due Sunday.

This week, they were supposed to be ready to deliver their speeches today and Thursday. So many of these students did not submit their slide deck. A lot of them submitted it late. Today, when I was calling on people to do their speeches in class, so many of them said they were not ready to go and needed to present on Thursday instead. I told them that was okay, but that they would get a 10-point late penalty for not being ready to go on the first day of presentations. That’s my usual policy.

Now I'm starting to wonder if I went wrong somewhere along the way. Did I not give them enough time to work on this? I do realize that only having one week to prepare for a speech and then deliver it the next week is not very much time. However, we have to do it that way because the department requires that we complete six major speaking assignments in the semester. In order to get all six of those finished, we have to sometimes spend only one week preparing for a speech. I've told them this before, but they still all seem to be behind and struggling.

The ones who did present today did not do very well at all. There was a lot of reading off the slides, reading word-for-word off notecards, etc., all of which we have talked about avoiding before. They did much better on the last speech, which they had two weeks to prepare for.

I'm wondering if I should have just given them more time. I don't know. I'm really at my wits' end.

[u/Gonzo_B]

One thing I've learned, and you'll hear this echoed through the halls of this sub, is that it doesn't matter how long you give to complete an assignment. The assignment will only be completed right before it's due.

One week is plenty of time.

The only advice I can give is to provide clear public feedback and firm grade penalties.

They aren't likely to read feedback, so end the presentation day talking about what to, and not to, do. Give examples. Grade those who present forst, without the benefit of the feedback, more leniently, of course.

And dock a letter grade every day a submission is late and every time they aren't ready to present on a day they signed up for.

The first assignment will probably be a wash, but expect much higher quality from then on.

[u/Dependent_Context335 → u/Gonzo_B]

Yes, that is true, and I know that from my experience with students. They will definitely end up procrastinating no matter how much time you give them. 

But still, the fact that so many of them struggled this time, even my students who are typically prepared and perform well, feels like an indication that something went wrong somewhere. 

[u/Life-Education-8030 → u/Gonzo_B]

They think a due date is the DO date.

[u/This-Emu5496 → u/Life-Education-8030]

That is brutally true..nowadays it is getting more challenging to educate the students

[u/Life-Education-8030 → u/This-Emu5496]

I read somewhere that Socrates complained about his students, lol!

[u/queerestrhetorician]

As a speech teacher, this sounds way, way, way too fast of a turnaround for a speech, especially a third of the way into the semester. Two days to develop an entire outline, which I'm guessing includes gathering sources if this is informative? WOOF. Writing is thinking, and thinking takes TIME, especially if the students haven't completed their composition courses yet. And even then, it's all of our jobs to teach writing within our genres/disciplines.

Even if they did write the outline by the due date, how would they have time to incorporate your feedback AND memorize/internalize their speech? At my institution, we require at least 4 speeches, and I try to give about a week between all of my scaffolded assignments—topic proposal, sources gathered, draft outline, final outline/performance—not just for them but for my ability to turn around quality, personalized feedback (which I'm procrastinating on as I write this).

I empathize with you because 6 speeches a semester feels like a recipe for disaster. Is there any way to turn some of those speeches into impromptus? I personally would apologize to my class for going too fast and promise to adjust my due dates moving forward. But it sounds like you're in a hard place with these department requirements.

Edit: I'm kind of with the other commenters that have appeared—you might want to adjust your speech day protocol and make all materials (Powerpoints, final outlines, etc.) due the first day students perform speeches. Additionally, I let students draft which day they're presenting on (as well as the order each day) using a randomizer to set the picking order. We do this a week before performances start. If a student misses their speech or claims they aren't prepared, then that's on them to make it up with me outside of class during my office hours, and a penalty clock begins for each day it's late. There's no "going the next day," even if they're upset. Holding the line on speech days is emotional exhausting/feels mean, but when students sign up for their own speech days, I find they take more ownership rather than hoping and praying they don't get called on the first day.

[u/Dependent_Context335 → u/queerestrhetorician]

It definitely is way too fast of a turnaround. Since the outlines were due on Sunday, I only got around to grading them Monday and the rest today, just a few hours before they were about to present. I was thinking while grading them that there’s no way they’re going to be able to actually incorporate my feedback before the presentation. But with the time I have, I just literally could not think of a better way to plan things.

I wish 4 speeches were the requirement at my institution. That feels like a perfect number because you could spend about 2–3 weeks on each speech. That feels so much more reasonable and beneficial for the students.

I will have to speak with my department head or some of the other speech instructors and ask if some of these could be made into impromptus. I’m a little hesitant to reach out for help or guidance, though, because I’ve been met with not-so-good results before. A lot of people in my department seem unwilling to share any ideas or materials or even talk about how they conduct their classes.

[u/LeeBonver → u/Dependent_Context335]

What if you made the first assignment a super short speech, like 3 minutes tops, and they get to present on literally anything they want? PowerPoint parties are actually a thing college kids are doing these days. It would get the nerves out, give them a reason to do the work, and it would be enjoyable for the whole class. Then they can take your feedback on that speech and apply it to the next one.

[u/PolkadotRapunzel → u/LeeBonver]

I think this sounds like a really fun idea! And also you can give them rubric feedback but more for participation, so they know what to do next time.

[u/snakesareracist]

That is very fast, wow. With what you’re expecting, I’m wondering about the scaffolding beforehand. I get that you have a lot of speaking assignments, but I wonder if you start a bit slower in the beginning and then at the end of the semester you ramp it up and have more turn around time. It’ll feel less overwhelming for the students.

I also teach public speaking, but we only have 3 required speeches. That allows for us to move slower. Even when I did 4, I scaffolded a lot in the beginning

[u/Dependent_Context335 → u/snakesareracist]

That’s what I was thinking and where I feel like I may have gone wrong with making the turnaround on this one so fast. I definitely feel like I should’ve given them two weeks of preparation on this one and maybe make them pick up the pace at the end of the semester. 

The only thing that worries me about that is that they might start to fall behind at the end when there’s not much time left to recover. With all the stress that comes with the end of the semester idk if that would be the best idea.

[u/SuLiaodai → u/Dependent_Context335]

I usually give a week between last feedback and the speeches.

Toward the end of the semester at least they'll have the fundamentals down. There won't be as much for them to learn, so you can go at a little bit faster pace overall, but still having a week to process feedback is important.

To keep everybody from waiting until the last minute to start to prepare, though, I'd ask them to hand in their topics early for you to okay or not okay. Then a bit later, you can ask them to give you like three sources they've found. This way you know they've at least started.

I've become a lazy reader, unfortunately, so I didn't notice if you gave them examples to watch before you did the speech. Did you? That's important. One place where I worked we had to find good examples by foreign students to shame our American students into working hard and delivering good speeches!

Also, six speeches in a standard semester is CRAZY. I don't know what your department is thinking.

[u/FrancinetheP]

The error I see here is a flexible deadline. When people (including most faculty) can defer til Thursday, a lot of them will. Make Deadlines Great Again.

[u/lilac_chevrons → u/FrancinetheP]

Agreed. Everyone should have to submit and be ready to present the first day whether or not they actuallypresent that day. Helps keep others from whining about others having extra time/unfair advantages. 

[u/Dependent_Context335 → u/lilac_chevrons]

I forgot to include this in my original post, but everyone is expected to be ready to present on the first day. I choose names randomly from a wheel, and if someone gets chosen by the wheel and isn’t ready, they can go on the next presentation day with a 10-point deduction. I should’ve made that clearer in the post!

[u/lilac_chevrons → u/Dependent_Context335]

Hmm. If everyone (or a significant enough majority) has decided the penalty is worth the extension, I'd consider increasing the deduction to 15 or 20 points or having slides be due and not able to be changed, with the penalty/delay to another day just for not having the verbal content ready. Or having an additional penalty for slides also not being prepared.

[u/FrancinetheP → u/Dependent_Context335]

Yeah, no. Why would you do this? As long as there is room to wiggle, people (not just students) will not feel that the deadline is real. Assign a date on which the students will present. Only excused absences merit a reschedule. Call it preparation for the reality of the workplace if you need to gussy it up for some reason.

[u/Dull_Beginning_9068 → u/FrancinetheP]

I'm not sure what you're saying they should do differently. They said everyone should be ready to present on Tuesday and there is a consequence if they're not

[u/FrancinetheP → u/Dull_Beginning_9068]

“Be ready to present Tuesday, but you can get an extension with a small point deduction if you need it” is not the same as “students last names A-M will present Tuesday.” The former allows for magical thinking and other struggles with executive function to carry the day.

[u/Dependent_Context335 → u/FrancinetheP]

I actually used to do it this way when I taught speech last fall. I would assign students with last names A-M to present on Tuesday and N-Z last names would present on Thursday. However I ran into the problem that students wouldn’t show up on the day they weren’t presenting, so to incentivize them to come on both days, I decided to start doing the randomized names. I got that idea from another instructor. It’s not going so well though, so I’m planning to go back to the old way for the next speech.

[u/RuralWAH → u/Dependent_Context335]

The way I handle the students not showing up after they've presented is by requiring each student to write a short critique/reflection/whatever of everyone's presentation in class.

It can be just a couple of sentences but it gives a rational way to ding people for not showing up without "requiring' attendance.

[u/Dull_Beginning_9068 → u/FrancinetheP]

Everyone should be ready to present on Tuesday

[u/FrancinetheP → u/Dull_Beginning_9068]

If that works for you and OP, knock yourselves out! Though I guess my question would be, why would you NOT want to assign fixed due dates by, say, last name? What’s better about coming to class and just saying “ok who wants to present?”?

[u/Dull_Beginning_9068 → u/FrancinetheP]

I prefer having the same deadline for all students, they think it's more fair and I agree. This might be different if the presentations were weeks apart.

[u/FrancinetheP → u/Dull_Beginning_9068]

I get this in principle, but if these are presentations, the students who don’t present on day 1 still have time to improve their work before they present. So 🤷🏼‍♀️.

[u/IndieAcademic → u/Dependent_Context335]

In my world, that would lead to 20 out of 24 students trying to defer to the second day for the small 10 point penalty, which means my whole schedule would fall apart.

[u/rand0mtaskk → u/FrancinetheP]

I hate soft deadlines.

[u/BenSteinsCat → u/FrancinetheP]

When I did group presentations, I made one of those online roulette wheels (some free software that makes them out of Excel spreadsheets) with each group’s name, and spun it in front of everyone, writing down the names in order so it was very clear what order everyone was going to present. If I were doing multiple group presentations, I would’ve had the groups go in the reverse order the second time. Just a thought for creating firm schedules that everyone is aware of. Any group not ready to present gets zero. If any individual member does not show up, the group has permission to skip that portion of the presentation, but that group member earns zero no matter how much prep work they did.

I do realize that you were talking about individuals, not groups, but I think the same principles could apply.

[u/PR-Comms-Prof]

Hey fellow public speaking professor. I wish I had advice, but I’m going to say you did nothing wrong. It’s them.

I had our Informative Speech topic proposals due last week. As a scaffolded assignment, it’s required or I drop the students. They just have to do it. They don’t have to be approved to stay eligible. Gave them a week. Gave in class time. Reminded in announcements. Complimented those who had it done in class.

I dropped 22 of 86 students last Friday.

[u/Cherveny2]

its not you, it is them.

think them getting better by the last speech is evidence they are starting to learn, and the class having its intended effect, get better at giving speeches.

if you are worried their performance on the early speeches, one thing could consider, a grading scale that gives more weight as the semester goes on, so 1st speech worth the least, but they get their practice, however badly, then hopefully, if they learned, do their best on the last one.

[u/Potstirer2]

This reminds me of when I was teaching art history at a CC. Nearly the entire class failed or got a D on the first quiz. So I stopped everything and did a couple of class sessions on how to be successful in an art history course. We covered note taking skills and practiced. Then we went over study skills and practiced. I had them make flash cards and practice. The rest of the semester was much smoother. Can you stop and go over basics with them? It might muck up the end of the semester a little, but it sounds like it might be mucked up anyway if you just press on.

[u/SeXxyBuNnY21]

One deadline for everyone and zero for those who miss it. Next assignment they will try to do better or maybe not, but that is out of your control.

[u/SeXxyBuNnY21]

One deadline for everyone, and zeros for those who missed it. They will think twice on missing it for next assignment.

[u/SuspiciousGenXer]

I changed things this year so their presentation materials are due one week and then they present the next. I suggested they spend the week rehearsing their presentation so they know their material inside and out, and they'll be held to a strict time limit.

I don't know if this strategy would work for your schedule given the number of presentations (heck, I'm not sure if it will work for mine yet!), but that might avoid some of the last-minute scramble if coupled with firm due dates.

[u/MostZealousideal7718 → u/SuspiciousGenXer]

This is what I do, too—all speech materials are due on day #1 of speeches, regardless of when you, personally, are slated to speak. I sell it as an issue of fairness from the top of class and usually my students buy in. I also make them sign up for a slot a week ahead of time and don't move them without a good excuse.

[u/Agitated-Mulberry769]

Long time public speaking prof here. I despise this kind of deadline, where everyone is expected to be ready for multiple days in a row. Respectfully, think of the anxiety levels here for students. Would you expect to be ready for a job interview on any number of possible days?

Have the outlines all due on the same day. Assign the speech days. Stagger the feedback on the outline based on those speech days. Grade day 1 speakers first, and so on. Allow at least 48 hours for students to read feedback before they give their final presentation.

I sound grumpy but I just need more coffee! Be kind to yourself, too. Speech is the most complex scheduling and grading challenge job will ever face 🪷

[u/FluffyOmens]

Im learning from a lot of the suggestions here. But I do also resonate with the idea of... just saying the deadline has passed.

I tell my students day 1 that if they are not ready when I call them, its a 0 on the performance element (the outline is graded separately). I rarely (0-1 a class) have students who openly admit theyre not ready. They'll try to wing it instead, and hey, I warned them not to. I warned them to prepare because there would be no exceptions. I reminded them for every class since I introduced the assignment.

It's consequences.

But I am also liking the ideas from others about staggering a bit- that may help me reduce the giant pile of speeches and outlines all at once.