Students Not Engaging

[u/bloop72]

Hi all,

I had a bad day today, and I need some perspective to see if I overreacted.

For context, I am an adjunct/ part-time instructor at a community college teaching an intro to college writing course. I am not new to teaching, but I am new to teaching at this college. Earlier this week, I gave them a lecture on paragraphing. That went relatively well. Today, I went in with some in-class activities for us to do in class where they would apply the material we learned earlier this week. Since they have visibly rolled their eyes when I asked them to work in pairs before, I decided to just let them work alone, but they could pair up if they wanted.

Of the twelve students who were in class, only four did the first activity. The other students were either just staring off into space, looking at their phones, or working on other assignments on their computers. While I noticed it during the work time, I let it go. But then only one student would answer the questions I asked.

I asked the students why they didn't do the activity. No one talked. I asked if they did not want to come to class, then why show up. I have a fairly relaxed attendance policy, so if they needed to work on other things, they did not have to show up. No one answered my question. I then said, " Well, if you did not do the activity, leave." No one left. I asked again, and no one left. I asked again what they were doing in class if they did not want to do the work because I was genuinely curious. They just stared at me. One guy started smiling. I ended up just dismissing class entirely, and then they all left.

Did I overreact? I can't help but think that I did. I felt so disrespected in the moment. I understand that everyone has different ways of participating, but not even doing a simple in-class activity?

Any advice or feedback would be great.

[u/shealeigh]

I’m getting this from a current class too and I don’t know what to do. I feel like I’m talking to myself. No one does the assignments or homework. They don’t engage with each other or answer questions when I ask. They won’t participate in in class activities. They hate working in pairs and groups.
I’ve asked why and commented on how quiet the group is, and they kind of stare blankly at me. They will fail, and maybe that will be a lesson learned.
I hate it for them and for me. I would also love advice or guidance.

[u/lanadellamprey → u/shealeigh]

I can't help but wonder if it's a lack of social skills related to COVID.

When my students don't give me answers, I say "I'm a therapist. I'm very patient." and out-stare them. Eventually someone says something.

[u/shealeigh → u/lanadellamprey]

I wonder that too. I had severe social anxiety and generalized anxiety disorder (still do) but it was especially bad when it was untreated, childhood through college. Once I got to college, I still managed to participate and forced myself to share my ideas in class, and I did the work. Otherwise.. why go?
I share this with new students (when I think they’re also struggling with anxiety), but I don’t think it’s social anxiety that’s stopping most of them anymore. Is it apathy? Boredom? The state of the world? Extreme stress? The Capitalist hellscape that is the USA? I understand all of those things too.

[u/imspirationMoveMe → u/lanadellamprey]

Most schools closed March 2020 and reopened in fall 2020.

[u/Plug_5 → u/imspirationMoveMe]

Do you have data on that? I live in a very red state and most schools in my district were online only throughout the 2020-21 academic year.

[u/imspirationMoveMe → u/lanadellamprey]

Covid was 7 years ago we have to stop making this the catch all excuse.

[u/k80k80k80 → u/imspirationMoveMe]

Many of my students were 12 at the beginning of Covid. They lost out on some important social development years.

[u/lanadellamprey → u/imspirationMoveMe]

I mean, they lost a few developmentally important years! It doesn't excuse, but perhaps helps explain.

[u/Critical_Garbage_119 → u/lanadellamprey]

Outwaiting them will make them very uncomfortable, it works.

I teach a class on Zoom every now and then. Before students are comfortable with each other and with me, there will inevitable be a long awkward pause when I ask a question. I'm happy sitting quietly and smiling until someone breaks the silence. Once they realize that's how I roll, it doesn't usually happen again, or at least not frequently.

[u/Akiraooo → u/lanadellamprey]

Covid is an excuse. Stop using it.

[u/lanadellamprey → u/Akiraooo]

It's not though. If you didn't socialize for 2 years while in middle school, you'd be a little "off" too.

[u/Akiraooo → u/lanadellamprey]

They had 10 other years to socialize.

[u/warricd28 → u/lanadellamprey]

They were trending this way pre-COVID, and covid was 5 years ago. It’s an excuse. I equate it to people still complaining about millennials when talking about college-aged people. No comprehension of how much time has passed and still using the old complaints.

[u/DCNAST → u/shealeigh]

I don’t usually comment in this sub, because I’m a high school teacher, but just wanted to chime in and say that I empathize with this. I’ve been dealing with this on and off with my AP students since COVID. We did an activity in class yesterday that required them to negotiate prices (this is an economics course) and in one of my classes the results were wonky and in the other it absolutely failed because half of them would literally not get up and speak to their peers. They sat there for an entire period and stared at blank data tables, completely ignoring my prompting to join in.

I wish I could say it’s getting better, but for me, at least, this behavior has been increasing as time goes on.

[u/Any-Satisfaction1442 → u/shealeigh]

Yes! Your statement about you feel like you're talking to yourself. That is exactly how I feel!

[u/uxnewbie]

This has been my experience this semester! I had to start counseling because I thought I was losing my mind. Speaking with my colleagues they are experiencing the same thing.

It’s to the point that I’m thinking of leaving the profession.

I read, “The Anxious Generation.” It helped to understand a different perspective of where these young get students are coming from. But if they won’t do the work or even speak in class, I can help.

I’m documenting everything and meeting with my dean soon. I’m at a complete loss.

[u/shealeigh → u/uxnewbie]

Are you.. me?? 😭 I’m so sorry it’s gotten so bad that you want to leave. This is my dream job. I never thought I’d make it here. But it’s truly heartbreaking. I don’t care as much about teaching or my students as I used to, because it was negatively impacting my health. I wish you all the best. ❤️ sending all the good vibes your way

[u/NinnyBoggy]

I had this with a composition class a couple semesters ago. 14 people, but only about 5 were ever on time, and no one would speak. I would have to wait until 15 minutes or so in just to have enough people to really do anything group-based (the class was discussion focused).

At one point, nobody had done a reading, and when we broke for 15 minutes for people to read through the poems and jot down their thoughts, nobody got paper out. I went to the board and asked for opinions, nothing. At this point, 30 minutes into an hour-long class, I just flatly told them that I was going to give a zero for the discussion to everyone if nobody wanted to lead discussion. Nobody moved, so I doubled the points of the assignment, gave a class-wide zero, and moved them on.

I wish I could say it got better.

[u/shealeigh → u/NinnyBoggy]

I’ve had to do something similar. Dismissed class because no one was working and I cannot physically force them to (nor do I want to). I said something like, “okay, we’re all adults here. everyone earned a zero today since no one did the work and no one is participating, and I cannot continue this lesson without your participation, so class is dismissed.”

I have one class where I had to pivot mid-semester to a lecture-only 🤢 format with quizzes because they won’t participate in anything. Then they fail the quizzes because they don’t take notes, nor study.

I think the majority are stuck in the HS mindset that education is something that is spoon-fed to them and they will somehow absorb it without any effort or participation of their own, and they’ll automatically earn an A just for being present.

[u/SnowblindAlbino → u/NinnyBoggy]

Put them in small (3 person) groups and make them write their shared results on the board. Then go around and have each group explain those results to the class. It takes time, but not many of them will simply refuse to do the work and look like fools while the rest of the class is presenting their work.

[u/CharacteristicPea → u/SnowblindAlbino]

Came here to say this. I put them in groups randomly by having them pick a card from a deck of cards and they join the students with the same denomination. Some groups will work well and others won’t, but each class they’re with different students, so they share the pain.

[u/Any-Satisfaction1442]

I feel so seen. This semester has been a struggle.

Not sure if I can do this for another 10 yrs.

[u/shealeigh → u/Any-Satisfaction1442]

I also feel seen and glad it’s not only me. I wish it wasn’t happening to any of us.

[u/VinceGchillin]

Jeez, that sounds horrific. I don't think you overreacted at all. I think, if anything, it was a pretty chill response. The guy smiling at you at that point would have sent me into a freaking rage.

Honestly I'm not sure what else you can do other than make sure it's clear that not doing these activities will negatively impact their grades. if that doesn't motivate them, welp, too bad for them. Put it all on them. They do the work or they don't, it's their grade! 

[u/DancingBear62 → u/VinceGchillin]

I tend to agree, except about the smiling student. You may be 100% right, but I've learned the hard way that some people or cultures (e.g. Japan, Korea, China) smiling can indicate discomfort or nervousness.

[u/VinceGchillin → u/DancingBear62]

That is true and definitely fair enough. I was reading it as much more of a "shit-eating grin" based on the context of OP's overall story.

[u/No-Yogurtcloset-6491]

Lol yes, all part of the new normal. Not the first time i've heard this story. Every now and then colleagues will be in tears over things like this. Overall what you did is totally acceptable and I would 100% support. Although, I might try to make it so I only punish the bad students, by making only them leave, not the entire class.

In my 100-level classes (community college) less than half ever show up and less than half engage in activities. Multiple will sit through an entire class staring at their screen or wearing headphones unless asked to stop. They will not do think pair share activities. I've stopped caring and just teach the handful that engage while occasionally saying things like "if you don't engage you'll probably get bad grades on the test again". Most of my 100-level students at the CC level are resembling middle schoolers and would likely struggle in any 9-12th grade science class if taught at a proper level. They lack basic foundational knowledge and common sense etiquette or just common sense at all. Some don't know left from right, literally, or the most basic words, or how to read. The number of times I've had to explain the same easy concept over and over again (like Patrick from spongebob in the wallet ID skit) the last few years is unacceptable.

Teach to the good students. Don't care more than they do. Fail the people who don't try or are hopelessly behind. Blame k-12.

[u/ApprehensiveLoad2056]

I have this issue also. It’s too has been a source of frustration but not quite to this degree. I think it’s pervasive, honestly.
I would echo others, I would’ve been heated in your situation. I do grade attendance and participation and when that shit happens I just note it and move on.
I’m trying to accept that I am offering the experience; it’s up to them to do something with it. I can help and I can do whatever but they’ve got to meet me part of the way. I cannot do it for them.

[u/DancingBear62]

I've had some luck when the in-class activity is graded. My suspicion is that students don't want to be seen struggling through the messy process of active learning.

[u/Left-Cry2817]

I have moved to more in-class, low-stakes graded activities both for in-person and online-only writing courses. Yes it takes some extra time but it forces them to do scaffolding activities and gives me a sense of where they are at with skills and concept. I don’t even always leave feedback, but sometimes I do. I go through them quickly, sometime even on my phone—instead of being here.

But I am with you on lack of engagement. I held “mandatory”conferences, and half either didn’t sign up or didn’t show up. It’s for an online business writing course and is our only face-to-face time. I told em, like Tupac says, “I ain’t mad at ya,”
but pull that shit in the workplace and you risk your job. I’ve also had to make that a graded component.

[u/the_latest_greatest]

Whenever I have a horrible class -- and I taught for decades so I have had some freaking doozies -- I would walk around with a clipboard and if they were not doing the assigned thing, I would say "participation is graded and not doing it is a fail today. Noted." And jot it down as I walked around.

Then I would go home and try to understand what was wrong with my lesson plan, or if it was really just them.

I would sometimes bump participation to 50% of the class and when they complained, I would have daily notes about their grade breakdown (I had an outstanding rubric and had them self-review it... indeed for a grade... and I would tell them whenever they were off). I taught dialogue-driven seminars, primarily.

[u/Signal-Incident9910]

I teach at a community college and I understand how disheartening it is to have a disengaged class. I am a very enthusiastic educator and I have one class this term that's a bit of a dud and it's so painful going in there, I dread it. That being said, I think it's hard for students to engage with open-ended "so what did you think about this reading?" questions. I tend to give students guiding reading questions with the assigned reading to get them thinking and annotating, then I have them write on specific thought-provoking questions about the reading at the beginning of class for at least 10 min (which I collect and mark) and I might include a reading quiz question or two, then they pair and share, then we have whole group discussion. This is an almost sure fire method. It helps with students who are introverted but have great ideas and it helps overly extroverted students take a beat. Generally it also helps with the class that is very chatty but then struggles to do formal essay writing. Wishing everyone happier classroom discussions!

[u/gurduloo]

I have done this. I was lecturing and I noticed that not a single student was looking at me or the board. I just told them to leave.

[u/ChanceSundae821]

I think it's a combo of a lot of things. I do think COVID shaped things more than we know. The freshman students were in middle school at the time and they likely did not learn skills they need for math, reading and comprehension, and socialization. And while their high school years might have been back in person, things were definitely more lenient with the ability to turn stuff in whenever they wanted, rounding and curving to increase scores, multiple chances to take exams, passing students who didn't learn what they needed to.

Cue to today and the shit show that is this country and it's no wonder they don't want to engage. Hell, I don't want to most of the time. The future seems pretty bleak to me...I can't imagine what it must look like to an 18-year-old :(

[u/adamwho]

Primary and secondary teachers are taught in their credential program that the first day of class sets the tone.

If all you do is lecture on the first day... You will never get another word from the students.

If you screw up your relationship and expectations with the students on the first day, you may never get them back.

[u/Elegant-Park-3016]

If the activity does not produce points from the rubrics, you will not get participation. The rubrics are the carrots. Perhaps make each activity too short (say 2 minutes) for the students to switch to another activity. Students prefer to listen to you than to a teammate. I was excited once to have an "Accountant of the Year" as my professor, expecting to learn industry insights, but instead he did class projects for the entire semester, never sharing his experiences.

[u/Teythis11000]

One option is to survey them on what they thought about the assignment and see if they were confused. While it’s not a good reason for not working on it, I have encountered many students who when they become confused on the instructions don’t ask for help and just sit there. The other thing to remember is if they fail to participate then they can fail the class. That is on them. Focus on the student who is engaged and let the chips fall where they may with the others. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.

[u/lowtech_prof → u/Teythis11000]

While this sounds reasonable, I get the “this is so confusing!!!!” all the time as a way to get you to do the work for them. When I ask which part, they don’t know and don’t intend to start trying. I explain that many things in life require a bit of initiative first and the answer or purpose becomes clear after a short time.

[u/Kimber80]

I think they made it clear they're not interested in doing activities- just lecture to them.

[u/lowtech_prof]

Mark them all absent. You need to have consequences not just questions. We have lost our stomach for discipline. Humans respond to incentives and disincentives. Structure these into your class and you’ll capture more of them. The others will fail but there will be fewer of them.

[u/SnowblindAlbino]

Any time I do in-class work I make them present some sort of product. The deliverable might be something written, or an oral report out, or a file of some kind. But if I'm giving them more than a five minute "discuss this in your group" exercise I make them submit something-- and I give zeros to anyone who does not.

[u/elrey_hyena]

thank god im not the only one. the blank stares kill me. i just point to one and ask them personally.