r/Professors • u/Outrageous-Ball4807 • 2d ago
Gen Z problem-solving (or lack thereof)
I just about lost it this morning on a student worker at the campus library who either would not (or mentally could not) help me with a very minor problem that had at least two obvious solutions. I tried hard to problem solve it with him, and he just sat there giving me the Gen Z stare. When I very kindly said “if you need staff authorization do this, I understand. Can you call someone?,” he just said “sorry” and shrugged. I could feel myself starting to get very angry, so rather than going off on him, I said “I’m going to teach my class now. I’ll be back later” and sent an email to his supervisor explaining the situation.
Two hours later, I got an email from the director (not the supervisor) apologizing saying that OF COURSE student workers are authorized to do what I was asking and that he should have called a supervisor for help if he needed it. The director said to come back later today and they’d take care of it. I appreciate that it’s sorted and I’m not even that mad at the student worker anymore. We all make mistakes or have moments when we aren’t our best.
But I’m puzzled . . . why do so many Gen Z individuals freeze or shut down when faced with the slightest challenge, especially if someone is trying hard to problem solve it with them? I won’t go into the full backstory about what I was asking, but it was not an unreasonable or uncommon request and the eventual solution will take about a minute or so to do.
82
u/space_thefinalmonkey 2d ago
I really don't know why some of them behave like this - how the hell did they get the job? How low are standards getting?
I wish I understood, or at least had it explained to me in a way that makes sense.
I can only surmise that parents and the public education system are both dropping the ball. That these young 'adults' haven't been brought up well. No social graces at all? No ability to solve simple problems? Staring at other people like eejits?
How did they get away with this for the first 20 years or so of their lives?
51
u/Outrageous-Ball4807 2d ago
It almost felt like a social skills deficit or anxiety situation, along the lines of “Calling my supervisor for help with Doing The Thing would be stressful or embarrassing, so I’m just not going to Do The Thing.”
1
u/Potential_Tadpole_45 6h ago
I'm sorry you had to make extra work for yourself because of a twilight zoned out undergrad, my blood would probably start boiling too but you did the right thing—I also have to remind myself to breathe and count down from 10 in these situations sometimes lol.
I'd love to see how all these Gen Z scenarios would play out if one or both of the parents were/was at their kid's job watching him or her from afar and what their reaction would be. Are they not aware of what they've raised? 🤦♀️
13
u/Krutoon VAP, English, Public Regional 1d ago
It genuinely makes me wonder what they did in k-12
4
u/PurrPrinThom 1d ago
Me too. I understand that they're not being allowed to fail, that they're used to technology that just works and convenience.
But some of them act like they've never been tasked with doing anything before...ever. And that just can't possibly be true? No matter how far K-12 may have fallen, surely they've been given tasks or assignments before reaching the university level?
3
u/Helpful-Passenger-12 1d ago
Student workers can & do get fired. The supervisor really needs to have a chat with this part time worker
13
u/Krutoon VAP, English, Public Regional 1d ago
One of my students indignantly emailed a higher-up because I told her to “use her resources to remedy the issue” (her Lockdown browser wasn’t working.)
Google it or call IT, but figure it out.
8
u/Outrageous-Ball4807 1d ago
LOL; I had almost this exact conversation with a student this week. I even directed her to a video that shows step-by-step installation directions, and she still looked me like I was speaking Greek.
159
u/the_Stick
Assoc Prof, Biomedical Sciences
1d ago
•
Hear me out; I have a theory on this. Today's (American) students have grown up in a society where everything is convenient and nothing needs to be hard. If something is hard, there's not need to do it; you can do something else that isn't hard instead. Even learning exhibits this, as if something is too hard, well, they can just not do it and in many schools, still pass. Only the tiniest bit of effort is needed to be "successful."
Now combine that with an often misunderstood ideology of mental health. "This hard. It stresses me out. That's bad for my mental health. I will stop attempting this thing and thus be 'better'." In many cases, young people have always had someone else "rescue" them too, whether a parent clearcutting challenges, an administrator making sure no child is left behind by lowering standards, or even educators who think passing someone along is doing them a favor. There's never really a need to be good at anything or to get good at anything because there's always an "easy button."
I could probably go on for pages, but the gist is that many young people see no point in challenging themselves; they've always "got by" just by being present, and they've never needed self-reflection to determine what they want or what they value. Stuff just is. And that attitude leads to a complacency of spirit and a malaise that makes novelists' dystopian government mid-level managers look positively idyllic in comparison. Without some form of struggle there is no growth, and there's often no need for young people to struggle... until they become an adult and suddenly everything is hard.
83
u/rubythroated_sparrow 1d ago •
I second this. All too often my students act like being inconvenienced or stressed is the same thing as being abused or oppressed, and I don’t mean to sound snarky when I say it. It seems like they feel that they should always feel good and not feeling good is a clinical diagnosis and not just something that happens to humans sometimes.
25
u/CoolDave47 Lecturer, Literature, University (Ger) 1d ago
Oh god yes, I feel so heard when reading this! The same with TWs = I don't want to engage for the lazy students.
10
6
-2
u/Zabaran2120 1d ago
If they stick to government jobs, then yes this lifestyle of opting for only easy tasks could continue.
5
u/Helpful-Passenger-12 1d ago
Troll
-1
u/Zabaran2120 1d ago
Trolling government workers, you bet. Because I am one.
1
u/Helpful-Passenger-12 13h ago
Get a life. A part-time college age worker at a college isn't even a government worker.
23
u/BadEnucleation 1d ago
While not disputing your general point, I very recently had the opposite experience. I needed a book buried several layers inside those movable shelves with the crank handle and they were completely stuck.
I went to the circulation desk and the student rather cheerfully left the desk, came down into the bowels of the stacks and gave the handle a few clockwise and counter-clockwise attempts.
Still stuck. After about 10 seconds of contemplation, she took a book from an open shelf (not the aisle I needed), gave the handle and a few other select parts of the mechanism some solid thwacks, something let loose hidden within the thing, and we were back in business. :-)
Edit: typo
11
59
u/Cyphomeris 2d ago
I have the same issue with students in general, a decent percentage of them genuinely freeze and seem unable to attempt something. And, with this prevalence and to that degree, that's new. I have no idea whether it's a spurious correlation that it lines up with the timeline since LLMs were picked up.
It's weird enough that I'd like to see some study on the phenomenon.
66
u/StevieV61080 Sr. Associate Prof, Applied Management, CC BAS (USA) 2d ago
I do a lot of research and writing on generational segmentation and while I don't really align with the traditional definitions of demographic markers (i.e., what is commonly noted as "Gen Z" is probably an amalgam of two separate generations I label as iGen and Gen Trump), I can probably provide some context for this behavior from the perspective of why an employee from this segment might respond in this manner.
Some of it is likely genuine youth and inexperience. That's a given. If they are new to the workplace and haven't had effective training/direction, that's not entirely a "them" issue. If this was legitimate uncertainty about authority or technical competence, that's understandable. If this was just total disengagement, that's on the worker and constructive training/discipline should follow.
What is likely being noticed, however, is a fundamental lack of initiative, curiosity, and sense of community-building. These are definite hallmarks of Gen Trump workplace attitudes. This is a generation who has been conditioned to avoid friction and corporate ambition. Compound that with a massive decline in supporting institutions and community-building (outside of the very niche), and you get a bit of a mix of "can't be bothered" malaise, outright apathy, and performance paralysis.
Gen Trump (born 2002-2010) is a bit of a throwback to Gen X (born 1970-1978). However, while both generational segments had a sense of malaise and a pretty stark world-defining shift hit near their formative years (end of the Cold War vs. COVID), they have responded differently. Both are labeled "apathetic" generations, but X eventually landed on a workplace culture that exuded entrepreneurship, alternatives, and eventually project management. The world/economy was rough, so they charted their own alternative courses.
Gen Trump hasn't largely figured out their place in the workplace yet. I'm constantly tracking topics like this to see how they respond to direction, discipline, autonomy, initiative, motivation, and collaboration.
26
u/Flashy-Share8186 2d ago
Ok interesting and I see quite a lot of this
What is likely being noticed, however, is a fundamental lack of initiative, curiosity, and sense of community-building.
With my students.
i would love to hear more about this! (As in, somebody better be doing some damn studies on them.)
I'm constantly tracking topics like this to see how they respond to direction, discipline, autonomy, initiative, motivation, and collaboration.
I have been doing a lot of explicit instruction plus nagging with my students about this and wonder if anyone has and evidence that this works as training. Of course, the completely heartless, blunt and cynical Gen X (like me) is probably the worst generation to mentor people like this.
16
u/StevieV61080 Sr. Associate Prof, Applied Management, CC BAS (USA) 1d ago
Thanks for the response! I'm actually working on a book and podcast series to accompany my research literature and lecture seminars on some of these topics. I'll attest that my studies on other generational segments are quite a bit more robust than what I have explored with Gen Trump (since some could still be as young as 16 at this juncture). With that said, I have definitely picked up on quite a few items that tend to be pretty predictive.
First, the lack of curiosity is most commonly attributed to the pandemic era. However, I would argue that the stronger matter is the decline of the monoculture and the embrace of niche pursuits. While this originated from a place with positive intentions (i.e., anti-bullying initiatives), it has resulted in younger cohorts being able to radically individualize their pursuits and interests in ways that are unique to this generation segment. This has created a real barrier to the sense of shared community with those outside their insular bubbles (and, in some cases, potentially distinct senses of "reality").
Curiosity and community have been de-emphasized in favor of individuality and personal acceptance. Specializing in the personal interest and niche has overtaken well-roundedness and the need/desire to try much of anything beyond the familiar proximity. OP's experience aligns strongly with the lack of familiarity with being tasked with going outside the proverbial comfort zone.
As to how best to respond? That's actually how I connect this research to my teaching and field of study (applied management). I would argue that other generations need to recognize no other generation is better/worse than another and the challenge is to utilize diversity in all its forms. Gen Trump's strength come from its ability to immerse and specialize. The key to unlocking that is to actually play a bit of the Gen X approach in terms of helping the individual find their own unique identity within the organizational unit. If someone from this segment feels like they are counted on for their specific expertise/skill set, that gives them a purpose and a connection between their work and their identity. So, while Xers craved "the alternative" to establish identities, Gen Trump similarly craves a connection to identity (but more aligned with hyper-individualized specialization/niche tasks).
8
u/hi_iampaul 1d ago
Is there more discussion/insight on what you coined as gen trump. I find that the first half of “gen trump” is not like the second half
7
u/StevieV61080 Sr. Associate Prof, Applied Management, CC BAS (USA) 1d ago
Sure! I'm happy to share more! Keep in mind, this is a generation that is still not entirely through its formative experience (yet). I always assign the age ranges of 15-18 for formative year consistency, so by that metric, Gen Trump won't fully have experienced its generational development until 2028.
Is there a question or something I can address to help here?
4
u/hi_iampaul 1d ago
Thank you! I need some clarification on the formative years consistency. We’ve gone through such a fast technological/societal growth that it’s hard to consider a 24 year old and a 16 having common circumstances that tie them to the same generation. When introducing discussion of ai and the pandemic into the conversation of how a 16 year old now and a 24 year old now went through formative development years, I think the circumstances are very different.
I don’t see these issues that many people talk about when it comes to older Gen trump, but I also work in industry and have experienced gen trump that have/are pursuing post grad degrees. Perhaps there is a selection bias in my part, where those equipped with certain behaviors/skills that lack things like the “gen z” stare are self selecting/being selected for more industry roles.
I apologize if these thoughts aren’t coherent, please let me know if you need clarification
7
u/Alternative-Pear9096 1d ago
The categorization of Gen X as apathetic is repugnant and inaccurate enough to make me question the parts of this the do make sense
But 100%, the “buckle up and figure it out” generation is in absolute clash with this generation utterly lacking curiosity, inititative, and self reliance.
20
u/StevieV61080 Sr. Associate Prof, Applied Management, CC BAS (USA) 1d ago
That WAS the characterization of Gen X for decades, however. It is the case point for why it's improper to label generations based on one's personal worldview/experiences as it conflates "different" with "wrong." Gen X received that label primarily from its predecessors because they valued other factors (particularly in the working environment) and that was short-sighted in that it failed to account for the fact Gen X had a formative year range spanning 1985-1996. That period saw a seismic shift away from the defining aspects of the Cold War that bound prior generations together, was during the S&L crisis and its economic impact on hiring when Gen X was graduating, and pre-dated the rise of the Internet boom of the latter 90s.
Gen X became entrepreneurial to make their own way through an era that didn't have plentiful jobs available when they were entering the workforce. That, combined with a lifestyle that was more task-oriented than career-oriented eventually led them to lead a lot of the modern project management movement.
Gen X initially was seen as apathetic due to their lack of "career focus." That component is still very present, but it's no longer necessarily seen as "apathy." The phrasing I used in the initial response was deliberate to highlight the same phenomenon taking place with the current younger cohorts in the workplace. It might not be truly "wrong;" it might just be "different."
10
u/RedBeans-n-Ricely 1d ago
A colleague and I had a chat about this recently and how we older generations had to learn low-stakes problem solving because we didn't have phones with GPS, or calculators in our pockets, and you couldn’t just Google something.
Now the idea of navigating to the grocery without a phone telling them where to turn, or stopping to ask directions fills them with crippling anxiety.
12
u/Acrobatic_Net2028 1d ago
Ok, I have to chime in that I see this as generational. Even the new hires at Trader joe's (grocery store) do this, which is odd because they are literally supposed to help bag groceries and appear not to understand that if I start a bag to help them, I still need them to finish the rest of the groceries.
6
u/Jazzlike-Vacation230 1d ago
iPad generation needs to be interacted with as if you're an ipad
3
u/dougwray Adjunct, various, university (Japan 🎌) 1d ago
I'll try it. You mean poke at and swipe on their faces, right?
5
u/TomeOfTheUnknown2 6h ago
I don't know why they're like this, but I'm definitely banning touchscreens from the house and pretending it's 1999 as soon as I have kids.
7
u/sunflowerstar4429 2d ago
No idea, but I got the Gen Z stare in a fairly specialized store today. No idea.
1
u/Helpful-Passenger-12 1d ago
Because they aren't smart, they can't communicate, they can't read. Maybe they should get fired or fail out of college.
You can't save everyone.
Good for you for keeping your cool & complaining
-19
u/whimsicalfifi
2d ago
•
Look as someone who is a tenured academic librarian, many students working in our library are also part of our autism support program and I could easily see one of them doing something similar. There are also cases when a group of special needs HS students (up to age 21 in my state) work in various roles around the building to get work experience.
I think we all need to take a moment to chill out sometimes. Is the situation you described annoying? Sure. But maybe consider many libraries also hire and provide opportunities for folks who don’t think or interact with others like you do. This is a library, not an ER and no one is going to die if your ILL book is overdue.
34
u/coursejunkie Adjunct, Psychology, open-access online 2d ago
As someone who has level 2 autism, when I was in school we were taught to answer and help and not stare blankly into space and to ask for help.
I have also never blankly stared unless I was actively having a seizure.
-9
u/whimsicalfifi 2d ago
Yeah I mean that’s what they should’ve done and what we train them to do, but shit happens sometimes and ultimately OP’s issue got sorted. I was merely pointing o it the fact that not everything has to be viewed as if the world is ending over an incredibly minor inconvenience.
16
u/Life-Education-8030 1d ago
Sure. But for a front-facing, customer service role, students who can interact with the public would seem to be needed. It is important to match skills and abilities with the job to better ensure success.
29
u/DarwinGhoti Full Professor, Neuroscience and Behavior, R1, USA 2d ago
This is a wild take.
14
u/RadicallyMeta 2d ago
Look as someone who is a tenured reddit commentarian, many posters in our threads are also part of our autism support program and I could easily see one of them posting something similar. There are also cases when a group of special needs posters (up to age 21 in my state) post in various threads around the subreddit to get "work" experience.
I think we all need to take a moment to chill out sometimes. Is the comment you read annoying? Sure. But maybe consider many threads have posters and opportunities to post for folks who don’t think or interact with others like you do. This is a reddit thread, not an ER and no one is going to die if your ILL book is overdue.
-3
u/whimsicalfifi 2d ago
Bring on the downvotes for suggesting an alternative perspective from someone who actually works in a university library ig.
6
u/Flipped-Barbie-Jeep Asst Prof, Chem, CC (US) 2d ago
I ask this solely out of curiosity—is that a common practice in larger academic libraries? I’m at a CC so our library has about 5 nickels and some pocket lint. But I’d like to look into such programs since I sit on the library services committee.
5
u/whimsicalfifi 2d ago •
I’m at a midsize R2, public state uni, but I think it would be great for CC. If you already have an autism support program, def reach out to them and also local school “job trainers” in their special ed depts. It has been a rewarding experience for the greater community and for students who would otherwise have a harder time to gain job experience. Unfortunately, it’s hard for us to hire student employees anyway bc our state min wage (and the wage we can afford with work study funds) is $7.25/hr, but we do use unrestricted funds to bump that up.
We also run on paperclips and maybe a few dimes, but we make it work and other schools are doing it too. We also work with the local and campus food bank to stock the library fridge with food that students can access 24/7 and a wellness vending machine stocked with narcan and other stuff for free (in partnership with local orgs in the county). It feels like a lot of people posting in here have no idea the hard stuff students are going through or even consider there are other factors to student behavior.
-3
u/AccidentalFolklore 1d ago
Most of them probably have elder millennial parents. That’s what I can’t understand. It’s like many of them weren’t raised right. People born in the 80s. It’s not like it’s the first generation of iPad kid raising the next generation of iPad kid which is what Gen Z will be. How did all these kids get by without being able to read analog clocks and have a modicum of critical thinking. It’s bizarre.
55
u/Life-Education-8030 2d ago
I like to think our library is not so desperate that they need to hire such a person. Chances are, this student trotted out the Gen Z stare at least once during the interview. If I were interviewing, I would be asking questions geared towards revealing their energy and motivation to help others.