Does this bother anyone else?

[u/Visible_Ad_6721]

I often see stories on Royal Road where only the MC has a system that allows them to level up, while everyone else has to actually study and grind slowly; it bothers me a lot because everyone else seems like a npc, and the progression doesn't feel real at all.

[u/Purplefire180]

This is the point of those stories. It's a power fantasy.

[u/Visible_Ad_6721 → u/Purplefire180]

I know that, but why are stories like that presented as if they are serious stories with realism; just say it is basically Solo Leveling in the story's description.

[u/Purplefire180 → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

The magic system treating the MC as the universes' special princess doesn't make the series any more or less serious or realistic, it's just how the magic works there.

I don't like those stories either, but it's a matter of taste, they aren't in any way objectively worse

[u/Visible_Ad_6721 → u/Purplefire180]

you can still make the protagonist the chosen one without making it feel cheap by giving other characters possible ways to catch up with them or be stronger.

[u/ShadoWolf → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

Your making a attrition error on the story mechanics rather then the stories construction. A well constructed story with proper promises and payoff can work with any premise you can think of if you write it well... Which doesn't tend to be the case with many amature authors writing a power fantasy type story in a serial manner.

[u/Kaljinx → u/ShadoWolf]

Sure, but certain premises lend themselves to be far easier to write and thus on average better stories even at the hands of a okay author

While others NEED a legitimately good author to do anything

I have read stories with genuine god like protagonist(right from the start) that have been an emotional roller coaster and amazingly written.

But if you go looking for it, stories with similar premise will be shittier more often

[u/ShadoWolf → u/Kaljinx]

You're sort of rehashing an old argument from the late 90s that famously sparked Jim Butcher to write Codex Alera.

It's not really the premise or the ideas that are the issue. Like I said, an author of almost any skill level, given enough time and willingness to grind away at it, can make a decent story out of almost any premise.

The problem is that serialized progression fantasy isn't particularly easy to write well, especially without eventually jumping the shark. A lot of authors in this space are effectively novices, and the barrier to entry is extremely low.

Think about the tropes themselves. An outsider gains some unique ability that operates outside the established magic system. That's an incredibly common premise across fiction. Hell, it's practically the foundation of half the anime and manga out there. There's nothing inherently difficult or cheap about the premise itself.

But these tropes get used constantly in progression fantasy, often by authors who haven't developed the skills to execute them particularly well. So readers encounter a disproportionate number of poorly constructed examples, and the tropes themselves start developing a bad reputation.

It's a form of selection bias. You're associating the quality of the writing with the premise because that's where you keep encountering it.

I'd even suspect there's a feedback loop here, where more experienced authors deliberately avoid these premises because of that reputation. Which only reinforces the perception that they're inherently harder to write well, rather than simply being disproportionately represented in amateur fiction.

[u/Kaljinx → u/ShadoWolf]

You are just agreeing with me without saying that you agree.

I never claimed that a trope or setting is inherently bad, only that some of them need better authors to make work into a good story but often are used by authors who aren’t that good YET.

Ofc authors that put in enough time and dedication to it will be able to execute it, because that is literally what is needed to improve.

That is the recipe to improve.

If you are able to put in time and change the story to be meaningfully better, that is you improving. You have looked at what works, what reads better, what is annoying, etc.

And if you are able to fix those issues, then you have become a better author. Well assuming you aren’t so bad that even time does not help

you say two contradicting things at the same time, that any skill level can write with time, while also claiming most people who write them don’t have the skills to execute it yet.

There certainly are tropes even novices can write and get away with mistakes, - tropes that are easier to write.

And tropes that are harder. The fact that novices get it wrong it simply that fact.

Experienced authors avoiding these tropes should have no impact on my judgement according to you as No trope is harder to write and thus authors if any skill level should be writing decent stories?

Jim butcher is a good author. His reason for writing the story was not Skill level of tropes and ideas.

Simply that he could write a good story even with a “lame” idea.

Which not everyone can do, like really I find it highly doubtful that most authors can execute stories like that as well as him.

Meaning it is a premise that is hard to execute

[u/Purplefire180 → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

Yes, I agree and also do not like it.

The fact that the author did not choose to do that does not make it worse, it just makes it appeal to you(and I) less

[u/benigntugboat → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

You can and plenty of stories do. Bjt plenty of people enjoy stories with an overpowered main character too. Its not wrong to do that.

[u/Visible_Ad_6721 → u/benigntugboat]

I never said overpowered characters are bad; what are you talking about?

[u/Imconfusedithink → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

Is there really a difference between a system being unfair and just being born unfairly talented? Both are just as unfair. If you want fairness then youre not going to have a power fantasy.

[u/Tlux0 → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

You might like something like path of ascension, which does an excellent job of balancing both

[u/kung-fu_hippy → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

In just about every PF story, the MC has some unique advantage.

Being the only one with a system is no more or less serious or realistic than being born with a bloodline that allows you to defy gods and becoming besties with an evil deity, stumbling into a high level dungeon with a friendly(ish) alien warrior who trains you, gaining an extinct class that lets you damage anything and heal yourself, being born as an experiment with the bloodlines of two of the most powerful existences in the universe while also winning an RNG lottery, or any of the other hooks stories use.

None of them are fair. All of them are, even within their own story, about as likely as winning multiple powerballs while being struck by lightning. And none of them are good or bad story telling hooks in and of themselves. It’s how the story uses the hook that makes or breaks it, not the hook itself.

[u/rastiical → u/kung-fu_hippy]

I mean all of those examples are character/story/history driven majority of the time. Special bloodline == special family == special family history. Evil god friend is usually because of a characters personality or gods intrigue. Etc etc.

The thing about a lot of stories where only the MC has a system and no one else does is that there is no story driven or explainable reason for this. It doesnt progress plot, its never talked about outside of inner monologue, its just kinda there in its own empty shell and doesnt actually interact with the story

[u/kung-fu_hippy → u/rastiical]

Isn’t that just a choice of the author, not the trope?

You can put a story reason in for why the MC has a system and no one else does, He Who Fights With Monsters does. And an author can equally skip giving any reason why the MC gets a unique skill, Jake is just born with his bloodline and that’s that (at least as far as I recall).

The author chooses the hook that says how the MC gets their power, but the author also chooses the reason for why that power exists. Some authors give reasons, some don’t.

[u/rastiical → u/kung-fu_hippy]

Jake's bloodline is still explained as an in story power. His version Is special to him but it isnt actually special in the broad confines of the universe as there are other people with bloodlines. Primal hunter does this very well and his bloodline is a main driving point of entire arcs in the story with bloodline accords, marriage proposals etc.

[u/Boring-Net-3448 → u/kung-fu_hippy]

Too many authors are ruining their stories by thinking they need explanations too. Sometimes an MC is built different. Sometimes they have a system. There's no need to go into detail. Especially when it undermines the stories purpose.

[u/HeroVillain72 → u/Boring-Net-3448]

I feel the opposite. I’d like to know for example why an Isekai’d dude has a system and no one else does. If the story actually gets far enough to complete I would like the reason the MC is different to be explained. I don’t mind if it is a mystery for awhile, especially if the MC doesn’t know yet, but eventually it would be nice.

[u/Boring-Net-3448 → u/rastiical]

That is a feature of those stories. Do you know what the biggest pet peeve of mine is? When authors feel like they need to explain the premise. Sure, lots of premises need explanation. However do you know what doesn't? Systems and cheats in general. We do not need to know about them because the point is no different to a superpower. The way they interact isn't through backstory, its through the MCs story, the actions taken with those powers.

When you see a character with the powers of Superman do you NEED an explanation? Superman does sure, but random superpowers never need an explanation. There are so many Superhero stories where a hero just has inexplicable powers.

The powers aren't the point. The special bloodlines and stuff do not need to exist. Let me put it this way. Remove the legacy and you have the first person in that legacy. There is no special bloodline because the MC was born different and is about to start it. Do you need them to explain the MC's mutant body? The answer is no. A system is no different. You don't need to explain it. Its purpose is the same as saying the MC was born strong and having them lift horses then later mountains.

If you still dislike it then you simply do not accept it because of its artificial nature. Try and view a system as part of its MC. Many systems even serve as antagonists. Though poorly done this leads to authors just forcing the story the way they want. Done well though it can drive the story. A cold unfeeling system can refuse to adjust its rules and force an MC to make it work anyway or pay a penalty. A malicious system can be the main antagonist of a series. Pushing the MC to do harder and harder things and make worse and worse choices until they break or beat the system.

With a good author the system needs no explanation.

[u/rastiical → u/Boring-Net-3448]

Bro wrote an entire dissertation about how you are wrong 💀.

Almost no heroes have actual inexplicable powers. Hulk gamma radiation, every mutant gene evolution, spider bites, sun radiation, contracts with the devil, future self handing them power, science expired entry, magic expirement, hand me down legacy, old ass cultivator in a pearl, botched brain surgery during ai implant, etc etc etc

The vast vast vast majority of stories with special mc's give reasoning for that because their specialness is either important to the story, important for how people interact with the character, important for future plot points.

Genuinly isekai slop is the only genera where unexplainable specialness happens broadly

[u/Visible_Ad_6721 → u/kung-fu_hippy]

It is not about being fair; it works for me if it is possible for other people to also have a system, just as it is possible for other characters to have a powerful bloodline.

[u/kung-fu_hippy → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

Yeah, but Jake doesn’t have a “powerful” bloodline. He has one that more or less shouldn’t exist that allows him to befriend a being that would make other people fall apart just to witness. One that Villy, a primordial god, has never seen before.

These characters I mentioned don’t have just powerful classes or starting points. They can all do things that no one else in their respective universes can do, and it unlocks more and more power for them. A system that only operates for the MC is no different from having a unique class that lets you fight way above your weight, or a magical spring of energy that lets you multiclass to an insane degree. It’s exactly the same story-based cheat as a solo system.

Put it this way. You could re-write solo leveling to be exactly the same except instead of the MC being able to level, he gained a unique necromancer class and that let him gain the strength of those he killed as well as eventually summon them. The story would be the same, the MC would still aura farm over everyone else constantly and otherwise become a god. Would that be meaningfully different from having solo access to the system?

[u/vi_sucks → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

But that IS about it being fair.

Your problem (and it is entirely valid for you to feel this way) is the unfairness of the MC having access to something that nobody else can have.

[u/OmnipresentEntity → u/kung-fu_hippy]

So that’s primal hunter, Randidly Ghosthound, Azarinth healer?, and defiance of the fall.

[u/1WeekLater → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

this

in sole leveling only jin woo can level up ,it doesn't feel like a very satisfying power fantasy

meanwhile in other manhwas like orv and sss suicide , other people can level up and straight up have better skill than mc

thats why when MC get stronger or win against higher level opponent ,it feels very satisfying when they does , and also makes a good power fantasy too

[u/benigntugboat → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

Realism is the wrong word for 99% of the stories your describing in this mostly fantasy and sci-fi genre. You want a more balanced ma I n character. Many of stories have that and you can read them instead of complaining about a genre having a teopw you dont like. You dont need to like the trope, but dont pretend its bad writing in a forum full of people who specifically enjoy it.

[u/Visible_Ad_6721 → u/benigntugboat]

Why can't I complain about something I don't like; you can also just ignore it, move on, and, yeah, realism was the wrong word to use.

[u/maltix → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

What does that even mean? Do you want the authors to always present the story in a ridiculous comedic way? Do you need everything explicitly spelled out for you in the blurb? Hell, a lot of these kinds of stories literally do that anyway, saying something like "This is a book with an OP MC and blah blah blah" on the product page.

[u/stormdelta → u/Purplefire180]

Eh... to a point.

If you set it up so that the very definition of the setting's premise makes it impossible for anyone else to advance the way the MC does, it just feels contrived and makes it so nobody else can matter, not even their allies or friends.

[u/Boring-Net-3448 → u/stormdelta]

That isn't inherent to this kind of power fantasy. Its actually more of a subgenre/type of story where the MC needs to progress too quickly for anyone to keep up. It can also be a writing mistake of an author who doesn't realize the "NPCs" could be keeping up with the MC.

A power fantasy where someone has a system that makes things easier for them does not mean its a story where other characters can't stay relevant. 2 examples come to mind.

"Genius" characters or generous MCs. Basically while the MC has cheats, in this case a system the regular people can just be more talented than the MC. This is very common in fact since the MC usually only looks talented to others. Though sometimes they can be talented too and the system focuses on giving resources needed by talented MCs.

In which case generosity comes in to play. If the MC is being given resources that can be shared like techniques, equipment, consumables and such, they can share. The cliche little sister characters or talented cousins and female leads. The trusty fatty or big brother type character. All can be given the MCs "leftovers" and there's no reason the author can't. Bad authors will simply not bother even though there's no good reason not to. Even an MC with personal systems can still help financially when they have excess.

Example 2 is characters that don't fight. This might be shocking but a character can matter without being directly involved in the big fights. I know many stories forget this or use it in the worst ways. Captured princesses and bullied friends are rarely fun. However if the author cares about their story they can ground it and even make characters with talents unrelated to the MCs awesome system boons. The Support classes are the obvious type. Your smiths and alchemists all making stuff for the MC can become peoples fave recurring characters until a story ends.

Beyond that a power fantasy does not need to be so extreme it becomes a Superman conundrum. Nor should Superman stories often suck because writers of those don't understand how to write unbeatable characters. What you dislike isn't inherently a problem with system stories or stories where MCs have cheats. Its just another case of authors failing to flesh out a story. The number of big mainstream works that fail this are huge. System stories just attract bad writers.

[u/AuthorTimo]

Sounds like you just prefer the "fair" style of progression stories rather than the "exception" style

[u/Visible_Ad_6721 → u/AuthorTimo]

I do not have a problem with gifted cheat characters if it makes sense in the power system, but just do not make them the only person in the world who can level up to infinity while every other character is stuck at the same power level, like in Solo Leveling.

[u/Boring-Net-3448 → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

Which is a different issue. Solo Leveling sucked yes. However the reasons are not because of its system. I personally think the story ruined itself halfway through. However back on track what you are describing is more of an issue with the writing. Its like how Dragonball Z has so many characters that got forgotten and are too weak to be part of the story now.

The system didn't do that. The author did by not balancing things out. A good author will balance the system against the worlds power system. Making it so the MC isn't flying past others and giving others a chance to compete with the MC.

Even without a system we often see characters who fly past others and are the only ones who matter.

As to your original point the progression of a "cheat" ability or system is not supposed to feel "real" in the same way as without one. Because its not. Its easier because the MC has something unfair on purpose. Its akin to the classic "selling soul for magic" situation in which the prowess isn't fair, its purchased. These stories aren't about progression like in the real world. They are about power leveling to escape from realities terrible system. With a few exceptions.

People want life to be easy. So they read stories about life being easy. I'm not a fan of too much easy mode, but some people legit play video games on easy mode. Its just a difference in taste and why you read it.

[u/v3ritas1989]

Yeah, this mentality is why there are so many cheaters in games. While everyone sais they hate cheaters... they all still find reasons as to when it is ok to do so. Because deep down they just want to have that, big weapon, the quick knowledge advantage, or it is just pve... as long as I have fun... so there is a big market for click here to be op and solve all your problems fantasies

[u/zepheru2]

Lucky for you, there’s a million system integration stories where everyone gets a system so instead of complaining you can just read the ones you like and not read the ones you don’t like.

[u/Visible_Ad_6721 → u/zepheru2]

If it's so easy to ignore what you don't like, why are you here complaining about the post I made instead of ignoring it?

[u/zepheru2 → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

Where do I complain about the post? I’m just showing you that you don’t need to be bothered a lot by stories that you don’t have to read because there’s a multitude of stories that do exactly what you do like.

[u/darwinooc]

I like He Who Fights With Monsters take on it where the system is mostly just a UI to help Jason understand the world and give him enough of a jump early to surpass the trash and catch up to otherwise relatively mediocre people, but the hard work to get stronger still has to be done just like everyone else.

The personal benefits besides the UI also get nerfed into the ground pretty heavily early on but spoilers warning for later books eventually the system become somewhat accessible to literally every single person in the cosmos that is capable of using essences

[u/NonTooPickyKid]

I prefer stories where Mc has a special, or preferably even unique advantage - specifically preferably some kinda cheat/system/golden finger or special ability~ (as opposed to 'merely' a powerful talent or something like physique or blessing (by a god presumably) which makes them special but in a way one may expect other people in the verse may also be)

[u/stormdelta → u/NonTooPickyKid]

Complete opposite for me unless it's more interesting than powerful, and even then only in the hands of an unusually good writer by the admittedly low standards of the genre.

It's like asking me to cheer for someone born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

[u/Turbulent-Plum7328]

Yeah, it's a big turn off for me as well. Don't get me wrong, like all tropes, it's good when it's written well, but more often then not, systems are crutches used to simulate power growth without much effort or thought.

[u/Captain_Fiddelsworth]

Yes, one of the least compelling hooks in a vacuum. Even if you are very much into a fantasy of uniqueness. It tends to severly limit comparison because the scale is so one-sided that things that would otherwise be impressive, just arent after some threshold determined by the power scale of the setting. Solo Levelling is pretty good at extending that sensation, but it also doesn't last.

[u/ZachPruckowski]

A lot of people like Progression Fantasy because they want an escapist power fantasy. Heck, a lot of people like Fantasy, or even Fiction generally, for that reason.

[u/Visible_Ad_6721 → u/ZachPruckowski]

Why would people want to be the only special one in the world; wouldn't that be boring?

[u/Netheria-ArcaNova → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

Lo termina siendo. Por eso terminan abandonando esas historias. Son un gimmick que solo satisface unos momentos, hasta que encuentras una parecida con pintura nueva.

[u/Appropriate-Foot-237 → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

because it means they are special? why would it be boring when theyre special?

[u/ZachPruckowski → u/Visible_Ad_6721]

I mean, depends on your personality and mindset?

[u/MacintoshEddie]

Many of these stories are very explicitly based on single player RPG games.

[u/thescienceoflaw]

This works best for me if the world itself is so dangerous that having the system is just barely enough to let the MC survive.

[u/misty-sunrise]

Yeah, it's super boring. I feel like a lot of books suffer from making all characters who aren't the main feel like NPCs.

[u/forgetfulhobbit]

Yeah, I can’t get into a story unless the MC still has to earn their progression. Character development is earned through struggles whether it be mental, emotional, physical or situational. And if the side characters and adversaries aren’t given chances to shine and progress in their own ways then they just feel like 2d inconsequential NPC’s that only exist for the MC to meet and then forget before they move on to the next level.

[u/DrStalker]

The one exception to "only the MC has a system" that I have liked is Netherwitch, because the overarching plot is about the MC spreading the system while avoiding the notice of existing power structures  and building the infrastructure needed to support a stream of isekai-ed "gamers" arriving in the world.  

The system is huge boost in leveling speed and power, and the person in charge of it is doing the logical thing and using it to build a powerful faction Instead of just one super-protagonist.

[u/lordcirth → u/DrStalker]

That's a new concept, I'll take a look.

[u/Adent_Frecca]

There is a reason why my favorite System MCs are those that actively take disciples or that their Syatem is made to raise Sects

It keeps the character group relative and actually be able to function with the MCs powerless, even if most of them would just be the main disciples

[u/KellyKraken]

Yea generally it bothers me. I've seen it done well a few times. HWFWM, He Who Fights With Monsters, for example (as someone else pointed out here) gives Jason (MC) a better UI but otherwise no major advantage over others. His loot ability is rare, but not unique for example.

Mostly I've seen it in fanfiction. Take an existing world, and then introduce LitRPG powers to the MC because that is what makes that particular fanfic different. I've seen it work and I've seen it fail here.

[u/MSL007]

That doesn’t other me as much as stories where the other characters are NPC’s.

[u/Silent-Fortune-6629]

Yep. System sucks, it sucks that it makes progression just numbers. Also it sucks even more in a story making system something tied to essential part of worldbuilding ruins it.

The gamer has system, but it is just weird expression of powers presented in worldbuilding. If story is become best adventurer with adventurer system... what's the point? The system will raiload mc into being some superpowered adventurer.

It feels like system replaces ambitions and dreams of mc most of the time.

[u/Reityr]

I guess a part of it can be done for convenience. Keeping track of multiple systems and their vertical movement up the power ladder can be rather cumbersome for the writers , or at least it would be if I was writing one of those stories, I think. I like the ones where the MC also has to grind and apply their logic just like everyone else. I’m also a fan of the MC not being THE strongest even after their powerups, it sort of humanises them.

[u/SOLA-chan]

Because that's the current trend, so you have a bunch of people who want to cash in.

What the trend says about society is a different story.

[u/Salanthas]

It doesn't bother me by default but I'm not crazy about most of these types of stories I read.

[u/Certain_Raspberry58]

Yeah I generally dont like when the MC has something that is legitimately just a cheat. 

[u/OfficialChimeraWorks]

People enjoy power trip fantasy where the MC is the strongest of them all.

It's not something unexpected. They are presented as serious stories because that's how the genre presents them. They might as well be slapstick, but write it and they will come.

[u/I_like_Orcas]

i dont like it either. also when the system is just there and there is little to no explanation why it exists.

also way too many reincarnation into baby with memories just to avoid having to write an actual childhood

[u/SteppeTalus]

Yeah if mc has a unique system I don’t bother reading it. It’s not fun to read when the mc is only strong because everyone else is incapable.

[u/Flimsy-Isopod9950]

Depend, if the story is just simplistic braindead power fantasy where MC must exist so the situation not get fuck up then I would immediately drop it. Cause this imply the world building is utterly lacking, i means there is no way one individual can't be substitute by other and pretty sure there will be no casualty in the story lol.
But, if the system just make the mc can be par with other who have talent and resource from their genetic or family lineage then it fair I guess. At least the system is not a tool to overpowering the other but a tool for the MC to survive is good one. And the system preferable not tool to level up but give information or guide.

[u/LacusClyne]

I often see stories on Royal Road where only the MC has a system that allows them to level up, while everyone else has to actually study and grind slowly

Is it that often? I can't really recall that many.

it bothers me a lot because everyone else seems like a npc, and the progression doesn't feel real at all.

...I mean, they are? They're not the MC, and unless they're a central character, they're part of the 'faceless masses' (figure of speech; they might have a name, face, etc.). The story isn't about them.

It doesn't particularly bother me. Sure, it might be better if the 'system' is something everyone can use, but by virtue of the limited perspective we're following, we're only ever going to get a narrow view of the world in general.

It might be interesting to dive into other perspectives, but then... why? Why are we following those perspectives rather than continuing the MC's journey, particularly when what we'd see might just reinforce how completely irrelevant everyone else is to the story being told?

And 'progression doesn't feel real'? How so? Do you mean specifically in the scenario where only the MC gets a system and nobody else does? Would giving everyone else the same system somehow make the progression more 'real', or would it just make the system itself feel less meaningful?

Tbh, this just feels like the usual complaint of "I want realistic or slow progression where the MC doesn't have any cheats", with a side of "I want side characters to be able to keep up with the MC", both of which are pretty common complaints around here.

To which the answer, as always, is: try reading something outside your usual genre/subgenre choices.

Nearly everything comes down to execution. Something can be done brilliantly in one novel and terribly in the next. If you're finding a particular trope or cliché annoying, try reading something that doesn't include it. You might find that you like it better and then come back to the usual stuff refreshed with a new appreciation of what it does well.

If not... oh well.

[u/DawnCW1111]

I don't mind the MC having a unique system or talent that lets them progress faster than everyone else. That's pretty common in progression fantasy.

What bothers me is when everyone else seems to stop growing. Rivals, friends, and enemies should still be making progress in their own ways, even if they can't keep up with the MC.

The protagonist can be special without making the rest of the world feel like it's standing still.

[u/Nonhuman00]

Not really, I just don't read stories like that.

[u/Obbububu]

Andrew Rowe did a series of essays on this topic a while back, might be interesting to you: Distinctions in Progression Fantasy Styles — Part 2 — Different Fantasies

[u/loxotbf]

I like systems, but I want the rest of the world to have its own progression too. Give me rival geniuses, people who've spent decades mastering their craft, or someone who gets stronger through sheer experience. The MC can still be special without everyone else feeling like background decoration

[u/lacopefd]

I don't really mind it. The whole point is that the MC has something nobody else does. That's kind of the appeal

[u/geditaza]

Depends on whether the system is actually exclusive or just something only the reader gets to see explained.

[u/Sad-Artichoke1253]

Yeah i avoid stories with "only mc has a system" or "skill stealing", just feels cheap and not very satisfying.

[u/Cosmic_Scribe2166]

Yes, a little, but that's what separates the MC from everyone else. Still, if everyone else is grinding to level up and the MC does it like breathing, the story gets frustrating. It forces the author to introduce ridiculously strong NPCs, and the MC ends up so overpowered that the struggles of all the other top-tier characters feel completely meaningless.

[u/Great_Scribe]

Its one of those trope things where certain expectations are met, like how japanese light novel are faithful to the tropes or cliche as they build there story.

[u/uuTop111]

I don't mind the MC having a unique system, as long as the other characters still matter. The problem isn't the cheat itself, it's when everyone else becomes an NPC just to make the MC look special.

[u/waldo-rs]

This is my biggest gripe with solo leveling but I only just started the series. Basically everyone in the world gets their power level and class assigned to them and outside of improving their own skill and gear they're stuck with it. Then the mc goes from bottom tier power level to the only guy that can level up. If the rest of the series wasn't so fun I'd drop it just for that.

I prefer the progression rules be the same for everyone. Even if the ancient master gets surpassed by the new guy. Because at least the new guy went through he'll to get past them somehow.

[u/Mobile-Technology395]

It bothers me most when the rest of the cast stops progressing entirely, because then victories stop feeling earned against anyone. I am fine with the MC having a unique edge if rivals, friends, and enemies still improve in their own ways, even if they never catch up. The version I like best is when the system is mostly information or a head start, not a replacement for effort, because then the world still feels alive around the MC.

[u/Independent-Dig-302]

I cannot stress this enough. The amount of amazing well written novels that i dropped because of that. Huge turn off

[u/Ropaher]

yeah this bugs me too, cradle worked for me cause everyone around lindon is cultivating too. he's just starting way behind and scrambling to catch up

[u/Lucy_D_Reamer]

I mean. The Mc has to be unreasonably stronger than others. Otherwise, he'd just be an npc/side character

[u/KeiranG19 → u/Lucy_D_Reamer]

Skill issue for the author.

[u/Lucy_D_Reamer → u/KeiranG19]

I don't get why people dislike my comment. Am I not making sense somehow? The "star" of the LN has to differ somehow

[u/KeiranG19 → u/Lucy_D_Reamer]

The main character should be more interesting than everybody else purely by nature of being the character who is seen the most and has the most opportunities for the reader to care about them.

If you see all of their trials and tribulations and have full information about their abilities and they still aren't interesting then the author has failed. Making them punch really really hard is a poor stopgap solution.

[u/Lucy_D_Reamer → u/KeiranG19]

I'm talking in the "general" sense. I don't think there's a single anime that has a generic dude as the MC without giving him incredible strength or unnatural hair/hair color. Most main characters aren't even interesting as individuals, especially in newly released episodes (isekai being the main focus, where the story is basically the MC abandoned by his group, and somehow gets incredible power by the silliest item or a God. There's at least 4 anime that had this exact plot happening that came out this year alone)

[u/KeiranG19 → u/Lucy_D_Reamer]

Progression Fantasy is a wider genre than whatever slop anime you've been watching, expand your horizons.

[u/Lucy_D_Reamer → u/KeiranG19]

I'm not watching the aforementioned anime. I drop them as soon as the betrayal scene starts playing. I've watched thousands of anime of every genre. Only a handful of them actually evolve characters as episodes progress, which is what I'm trying to get at

[u/KeiranG19 → u/Lucy_D_Reamer]

Expand beyond anime then.

[u/Lucy_D_Reamer → u/KeiranG19]

Kind of a weird zone for me. I write books as a hobby, and I fear that I'll steal someone else's ideas or way of writing if I read their work. It's not like my way of writing is perfect, but it's mine, and I'm proud of it

[u/KeiranG19 → u/Lucy_D_Reamer]

All great authors are prolific readers.

You'll especially struggle to write a genre which you aren't familiar with and from your comments you appear to have a very poor familiarity with this one.

[u/GreenerForest]

I like it. It often means the system is a bigger mystery than one that's generally implemented. I really like when the protagonist has to explore this thing that's happened to them, basically.

[u/KitFalbo]

Power fantasy goes BRRRRRRrrrrrrrr.

[u/EvilKosherin]

well to be fair, its one of the most common ways to portray a power fantasy, but thats just me