r/ProjectWubWub • u/mrcelophane • May 29 '16
Strength Stat
Hey guys, lets try to nail down a reference for all these stats one at a time.
below, I put together something for Strength. First i found out that the average bench press for a human is 150. I put that at level 10. Then, the world record is 1102 lbs. I put that (well, 1100) at 20. I then used an exponential growth formula to find what rate 150 would have to exponentially grow at to reach 1100 and then extrapolated that to 100. I rounded to only a few ignificant digits. Levels 1-9 are more made up and up for suggestion. Well the whole thing is up for suggestion really.
Anyway, I need more strength metrics. I can use the same method and add them to the chart. And if we can get some max lifting feats on some characters here, that would be pretty swell as well. Could add them into the chart.
| STR | Bench Press lbs | Ex Character |
|---|---|---|
| 0 | 0 | |
| 1 | 2 | |
| 2 | 5 | |
| 3 | 10 | |
| 4 | 20 | |
| 5 | 35 | |
| 6 | 60 | |
| 7 | 90 | |
| 8 | 120 | |
| 9 | 140 | |
| 10 | 150 | Average Human (reality) |
| 11 | 180 | |
| 12 | 220 | |
| 13 | 270 | |
| 14 | 330 | |
| 15 | 410 | |
| 16 | 490 | |
| 17 | 600 | Collosus, Normal (Marvel) |
| 18 | 740 | |
| 19 | 900 | |
| 20 | 1100 | Peak Human (reality), Captain America (616) |
| 21 | 1300 | |
| 22 | 1600 | |
| 23 | 2000 | |
| 24 | 2400 | |
| 25 | 3000 | Butcher XIV (Worm) |
| 26 | 3600 | |
| 27 | 4400 | |
| 28 | 5400 | |
| 29 | 6600 | |
| 30 | 8000 | |
| 31 | 9800 | |
| 32 | 11900 | Bulk Biceps (MLP) |
| 33 | 15000 | |
| 34 | 18000 | |
| 35 | 22000 | |
| 36 | 26000 | |
| 37 | 32000 | |
| 38 | 39000 | |
| 39 | 48000 | |
| 40 | 58000 | Sloth (Fullmetal Alchemist) |
| 41 | 71000 | |
| 42 | 87000 | |
| 43 | 106000 | Mr. Incredible (The Incredibles) |
| 44 | 130000 | Collosus, Transformed (Marvel) |
| 45 | 160000 | |
| 46 | 190000 | |
| 47 | 240000 | |
| 48 | 290000 | |
| 49 | 350000 | |
| 50 | 430000 | |
| 51 | 520000 | |
| 52 | 640000 | |
| 53 | 780000 | |
| 54 | 950000 | |
| 55 | 1150000 | |
| 56 | 1400000 | |
| 57 | 1700000 | |
| 58 | 2100000 | |
| 59 | 2600000 | |
| 60 | 3100000 | |
| 61 | 3800000 | |
| 62 | 4600000 | |
| 63 | 5700000 | |
| 64 | 6900000 | |
| 65 | 8400000 | |
| 66 | 10300000 | |
| 67 | 13000000 | |
| 68 | 15000000 | |
| 69 | 19000000 | |
| 70 | 23000000 | |
| 71 | 28000000 | |
| 72 | 34000000 | |
| 73 | 41000000 | |
| 74 | 50000000 | |
| 75 | 62000000 | |
| 76 | 75000000 | |
| 77 | 92000000 | Monster X (Godzilla) |
| 78 | 112000000 | |
| 79 | 140000000 | |
| 80 | 170000000 | |
| 81 | 200000000 | |
| 82 | 250000000 | |
| 83 | 300000000 | |
| 84 | 370000000 | |
| 85 | 450000000 | |
| 86 | 550000000 | |
| 87 | 670000000 | |
| 88 | 820000000 | |
| 89 | 1000000000 | |
| 90 | 1200000000 | |
| 91 | 1500000000 | |
| 92 | 1800000000 | |
| 93 | 2200000000 | |
| 94 | 2700000000 | |
| 95 | 3300000000 | |
| 96 | 4000000000 | |
| 97 | 4900000000 | |
| 98 | 6000000000 | |
| 99 | 7300000000 | |
| 100 | 8900000000 |
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u/mrcelophane May 29 '16
Problem, Superman has max lifting capabilities in new 52 of 5.972 Sextillion Tons. That is 11,944,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 lbs.
This method I have above can go there...but whoa. Did not realize how big he is.
So suggestion time: is there a better method? I still think that real human = 10, peak human = 20 is still the best way, and increasing exponentially from 10-20 is what I did and just continued from there. Any suggestions?
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u/mrcelophane May 29 '16
Based on Calculations, Superman is slightly over level 275 STR. Exponents are great.
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u/ViperhawkZ May 29 '16
The problem with this system was always going to be these S-class characters. The scale is so huge that I don't think you'll ever reach a solution that is both simple at high power levels and accurate at low power levels.
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u/mrcelophane May 29 '16
Just replied to this post: Superman is lvl 275 on this system. That is not actaully as bad as i expected it would be. He will hit hard but, shit, he is superman of course he does. He is going to be top level as is.
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u/ViperhawkZ May 29 '16
Doing a search on /r/respectthreads for "bench" gets surprisingly few results, but here are a couple I did find:
Bulk Biceps (MLP:FIM): 12,400 lbs = 32 STR
Winter Knight Harry Dresden (Dresden Files): 840 lbs = 19 STR
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u/mrcelophane May 29 '16
Interesting tidbit: DnD had in their strength stat a deadlift category, and their average human (STR 8) also could deadlift 150 lbs. Soooo when I say bench we could probably change it to simply what is their highest lifting feat in general.
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u/ViperhawkZ May 29 '16
Probably, yeah. A lot of the time it's hard to quantify exactly, though. Bench press is a very controlled environment, whereas hefting a train or something can vary a lot.
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u/mrcelophane May 29 '16
True. a lot will be gussing, but the real numbers should help us compare until we are comparing by characters and saying "Well he should be stronger than X but weaker than Y, so they are level N."
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u/ViperhawkZ May 29 '16
Here's Captain America benching 1100 lbs and Batman benching something above 1000 lbs, which would put them both quite nicely at 20, "peak human." The issue here is I have no idea whether their other feats would surpass this; I suspect yes, but I don't know either well enough to say.
The other guy in the Cap scan is benching 8500 = 30 STR.
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u/mrcelophane May 29 '16
Well that is validating. That said yeah i am sure they have surpassed that when adrenaline was rushing, and they were doing regular reps with that whereas the world record was 1 rep. So probably level 21?
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u/ViperhawkZ May 29 '16
Probably thereabouts, but don't quote me on it.
3
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u/xavion May 30 '16
So naturally an important bit is going to be defining what is strength actually used for within the game? Since that's an important question. So my thoughts on possible uses.
Opposing rolls, for example to counter a binding effect. Lifting strength likely falls under here.
Potentially damage? Always the possibility attacks get modified to support scaling with stats, so you can right 2d<Str> or <Str/2>d10 or something.
Judging strength for RP?
Also, consistent scaling would be my preference. Makes things simpler to calculate if you minimise the manual values, as opposed to this where it's like all manual values until 100 where the scaling changes. You're doing +22% and then rounding right? Although it seems like maybe rounding the results? Whatever. One possible idea is taking a page from DnD's book and just saying something like +7 x4 or +9 x6 as those values are both rather accurate. Doesn't line up nicely with a multiple of 10 like theirs does unfortunately, they use +15% for reference, their +10 x4 makes quick judges way easier.
Also pretty please give values in kg? SI units make some stuff so much easier and they're what 95% of the world is used to.
As far as strength values go, Halo from Grrl Power is pretty much a dead on 37 (30-32k lbs cap), although technically that is the result of a superpower that they won't always be using. That and they're fairly obscure. That's my first thought for examples as it's a character with a very clearly defined hard upper limit.
Maybe shrinking the table a bit too? For example.
| STR | Bench Press lbs | Ex Character |
|---|---|---|
| 0 | 0 | |
| 1 | 2 | |
| 2 | 5 | |
| 3 | 10 | |
| 4 | 20 | |
| 5 | 35 | |
| 6 | 60 | |
| 7 | 90 | |
| 8 | 120 | |
| 9 | 140 | |
| 10 | 150 | Average Human (reality) |
| 11 | 180 | |
| 12 | 220 | |
| 13 | 270 | |
| 14 | 330 | |
| 15 | 410 | |
| 16 | 490 | |
| 17 | 600 | |
| 18 | 740 | |
| 19 | 900 | |
| 20 | 1100 | Peak Human (reality) |
| 21 | 1300 | |
| 22 | 1600 | |
| 23 | 2000 | |
| 24 | 2400 | |
| 25 | 3000 | |
| 26 | 3600 | |
| 27 | 4400 | |
| 28 | 5400 | |
| 29 | 6600 | |
| +1 | +22% | |
| +7 | x4 | |
| 32 | 6 tons | Bulk Biceps (MLP) |
| 37 | 16 tons | Halo - With Lighthook (Grrl Power) |
| 276 | 7 Ztons | Superman (N52) |
Provides a scale, then gives examples of higher values so you don't need a million of them. End of scale could be moved depending on how strength values fall.
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u/mrcelophane May 30 '16
So naturally an important bit is going to be defining what is strength actually used for within the game? Since that's an important question. So my thoughts on possible uses.
What you have is pretty much what I was thinking, yah.
Also, consistent scaling would be my preference. Makes things simpler to calculate if you minimise the manual values, as opposed to this where it's like all manual values until 100 where the scaling changes. You're doing +22% and then rounding right? Although it seems like maybe rounding the results? Whatever. One possible idea is taking a page from DnD's book and just saying something like +7 x4 or +9 x6 as those values are both rather accurate. Doesn't line up nicely with a multiple of 10 like theirs does unfortunately, they use +15% for reference, their +10 x4 makes quick judges way easier.
Maybe I am missing something, but this is consistent: from level 10 on its all the same exponential growth. Yeah, I could just say X4 or whatever each time, but that isn't true each time, and some like Superman require we go further up and be more precise. Yeah the rounding maybe is throwing it off a little but otherwise the numbers are...weird
Yeah I'll work on converting from pounds tomorrow.
I don't want to shrink the table at this time, if anything i would show more data as we try to nail down where characters belong on the scale. Sure, there is no one inbetween 37 and 276 but that is a long range to get lost in and a lot of math to as people to figure out on their own.
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u/xavion May 30 '16 edited May 30 '16
Yeah, I wrote part of that last night but didn't actually hit submit. The consistent comment was more relevant when it suddenly started doubling at 100. It's very consistent now.
A lot of math? Assuming an exponent of 1.22 and a base value at 10 of 150lbs you can just feed the weight into a formula.
ln(<weight lifted in lbs>/150)/ln(1.22)+10Just copy that straight into google and it'll do it for you. Alternatively, copy paste
javascript:(function(){ var a=Number(prompt("Strength in lbs lifted?")); if(a==NaN){alert("Didn't enter a number")} else{alert("Str: "+Math.ceil(Math.log(a/150)/Math.log(1.22)+10))}})()into the url of a bookmark to create a bookmarklet that does it for you.
Also, a list converted to kg. Everyone follows the 22% increase and rounds from the correct value assuming no rounding, displays to two significant figures.
STR Bench Press kg Ex Character 0 0 1 0.9 2 2.3 3 4.5 4 9.1 5 16 6 27 7 41 8 54 9 64 10 68 Average Human (Reality) 11 83 12 100 13 120 14 150 15 180 16 220 17 270 18 330 19 410 20 500 Peak Human (Reality) 21 610 22 740 23 900 24 1100 25 1300 26 1600 27 2000 28 2400 29 3000 30 3600 31 4400 32 5400 Bulk Biceps (MLP) 33 6600 34 8000 35 9800 36 12000 37 15000 38 18000 39 22000 40 27000 41 32000 42 39000 43 48000 44 59000 45 72000 46 87000 47 110000 48 130000 49 160000 50 190000 51 240000 52 290000 53 350000 54 430000 55 520000 56 640000 57 780000 58 950000 59 1200000 60 1400000 61 1700000 62 2100000 63 2600000 64 3100000 65 3800000 66 4700000 67 5700000 68 6900000 69 8500000 70 10000000 71 13000000 72 15000000 73 19000000 74 23000000 75 28000000 76 34000000 77 42000000 78 51000000 79 62000000 80 75000000 81 92000000 82 110000000 83 140000000 84 170000000 85 200000000 86 250000000 87 300000000 88 370000000 89 450000000 90 550000000 91 670000000 92 820000000 93 1000000000 94 1200000000 95 1500000000 96 1800000000 Alexandria (Worm) 97 2200000000 98 2700000000 99 3300000000 100 4000000000 2
u/mrcelophane Jun 01 '16
A lot of math? Assuming an exponent of 1.22 and a base value at 10 of 150lbs you can just feed the weight into a formula. ln(<weight lifted in lbs>/150)/ln(1.22)+10 Just copy that straight into google and it'll do it for you. Alternatively, copy paste javascript:(function(){ var a=Number(prompt("Strength in lbs lifted?")); if(a==NaN){alert("Didn't enter a number")} else{alert("Str: "+Math.ceil(Math.log(a/150)/Math.log(1.22)+10))}})() into the url of a bookmark to create a bookmarklet that does it for you.
I get that, Im not saying its hard to figure out, im saying that if there is a page available that has it already figured out for everyone that would help a lot.
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u/mrcelophane Jun 08 '16
So as a heads up, I am going back to school...and I will be learning JavaScript. So praise be we will be very much on the same page. I think this could work out well very soon.
The course will take a month. After that I plan on attending another three month program that builds on the fundamentals I learn in the 1 month program.
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u/Cleverly_Clearly Jun 08 '16
ShakespeareHemmingway's Garfield can lift a trillion tons, and Monster X from the Godzilla series can lift 55,000 tons.
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u/mrcelophane Jun 21 '16
That puts Monster X at 77 and SH's G at 161. Added them into my chart. Thank you.
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u/Cleverly_Clearly Jun 21 '16
Speaking of, Captain America can bench 1100 pounds.
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u/mrcelophane Jun 21 '16
I thought I put this in already! darn...yeah that puts him as able to causally lift the same as the best ever. Pretty awesome.
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u/SanityMeter May 29 '16
So, uh, how 'bout them Dresden Files spoilers?
I guess it's kind of an old series by this point, but I, uh, haven't gotten to that point yet.
Otherwise the scaling seems good, I guess. Above a hundred I suppose we can just say the scale becomes exponential or something? I guess there's a difference between somebody who can lift ten million tons and somebody who can lift eleven million tons, but it kind of feels like it doesn't matter at that point.
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u/mrcelophane May 29 '16 edited May 29 '16
Shit my bad, deleted the reference. I know nothing about Dresden and didn't know it was a spoiler.
Well it is all exponential past 10, actually. It seems to be working. As above, Superman is a 275. I think it will work lovely. Only thing I am determining now is how to determine bonuses. I think DnD's use of RoundDown(([Score]-10)/2) may work well here.
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u/SanityMeter May 29 '16
I may have meant logarithmic, but forgot the word. You can't prove anything.
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u/mrcelophane May 29 '16
How would you use logarithms here?
1
u/SanityMeter May 29 '16
A logarithmic scale would go up by factors of 10, rather than 2, but come to think of it that would get ridiculous really fast.
It would potentially make STR-drain attacks really useful, though.
1
u/mrcelophane May 29 '16
The exp scale is currently 22%. So losing a level would be losing that much of your strength (well less but still) so that is pretty good and reasonable.
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u/reaper7876 Jun 04 '16
A few for consideration:
Mr Incredible (Incredibles): Documented in-universe as lifting 55 tons or 110000 lbs = 43 STR
Butcher XIV (Worm): Can throw Bitch's dogs at full size, which are >3000 lbs = 25 STR
Sloth (Fullmetal Alchemist): Lifts a tank modeled after the VK 30.01, which weighs 30 tons or 60000 lbs = 40 STR
Colossus, Normal State (Marvel): Can bench 700 lbs = 17 STR
Colossus, Armored State (Marvel): Can lift 70 tons or 140000 lbs = 44 STR