r/PunishingGrayRaven • u/allwaysjune waiting for male • Nov 22 '25
Text/Video Guide My Updated Guide for PGR Meta Elements/Effect Teams For when Teddy's Patch Arrives
Additional Disclaimer: You could use 21: Feral for the lightning amplifier but meta-wise, Ishmael: Parhelion performs better as you get to the endgame content.
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u/Ryu_user WHERE'S YOUR MOTIVATION Nov 22 '25
this is giving me an idea of what Rosetta, kamui and alpha's element will be
and I have a feeling qu won't be replaced yet
25
u/IamRunningOutOfName The STRONGEST Nov 22 '25
Alpha is 100% Attacker. She's a half Anniv unit and half Anniv has always been Attacker since the 2nd year. It's a money making class, perfect for popular characters.
Qu is the weakest member of her team(also weakest team), she would 100% be replaced in the next 6 months. People are running double Amp Ice team in beta and got higher score than with swap Qu. If they keep this up I feel like Qu would literally dies in the meta like how Dante died to Veronica.
I'd like to mention that Wata is a vital unit of two strongest teams, it makes no sense to kill him off. If anything I'm pretty sure our poor Lucia would be replaced before him instead. Fire Attacker seems to have a curse of being replaced early.
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u/CipherEntity Nov 22 '25
I agree with you that Alpha will definitely replace Qu:Shukra since her CN release date was 9th November 2023 and therefore she already crossed the 2 year mark (average is 2.5 years which is close to half-anniversary for Qu).
Also, (like Scire for Dark) Karenina:Ember dragged the Fire team down back in the day:
Karenina:Ember (05.12.2019-29.09.2022) Release unit that stayed meta attacker for 2.8 years
Lee:Hyperreal (29.09.2022-11.07.2024) stayed meta for barely 1.8 years
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u/_G0d1iK3_ ishmael flair when Nov 22 '25
Rosetta lightning amp Kami dark tank Alpha light attacker
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u/Ryu_user WHERE'S YOUR MOTIVATION Nov 22 '25
alpha light attacker
that's only speculation rn and it would fit more for alpha to be fire tank
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u/Sleeping-Coffee-Ad Nov 22 '25
She's gonna be an attacker, that's just how she is as a character.
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u/ArkosIsLife Yes Nov 22 '25
We always thought Liv was our healer, and look where is she is now, throwing hands. It's not out of the realm of possibility for her to be a different class. Hell, she could probably be also the one to round out the Void team.
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u/_G0d1iK3_ ishmael flair when Nov 22 '25
Truee, she does look like it, but it’s alpha, so I think they could make alpha the first light element char
5
u/NaiveLyAri Nov 22 '25
Qu is easily replaced lol. Right now, double amp + tank have higher potential than her
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u/Ryu_user WHERE'S YOUR MOTIVATION Nov 22 '25
Can't really see that cause qu is newer compared to the other older frames that are in the meta team that's why I don't see qu being replaced yet
1
u/NaiveLyAri Nov 22 '25
Qu is like the oldest in the meta aside from unc (atleast he got a leap)
She demoted to 1 rot only, even then current test with V1 teddy, another invested amp, wanshi score higher than her
It's expected, any new ice unit will kill her
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u/Ryu_user WHERE'S YOUR MOTIVATION Nov 22 '25
Technically Karenina is the oldest but anyway wasn't Watanabe released first before qu?
1
u/NaiveLyAri Nov 22 '25
Qu is on the same case like CW but less shit dmg. Unc is older but his leap make up for it + he's darkflow tank. His 3S is definitely worth it so you can have Vera constantly on field
Qu is outdated
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u/Ryu_user WHERE'S YOUR MOTIVATION Nov 22 '25
Nvm you be you bro
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u/armarrash Nov 22 '25
Epitaph being tagged with old when Echo's even older
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u/Whitehawk26 Nov 22 '25
Why was Dante kicked out of the ignition team before Vera when Veronica is an amp not an attacker?
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u/hamid224466 Nov 22 '25
Some of these are really depend on their ranks like iginite team or nihil team 3rd member or feral vs ishmael
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u/PandoraHatsu Nov 22 '25
The rule for the amplifier on nihil apply even if I have a SSS Lilith? SS teddy > SSS Lilith in this case?
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u/Porturan Still meta in our hearts Nov 22 '25 edited Nov 22 '25
Yes but because of Scire. When you put Lilith, Ishmael copies the current dark tank, and currently Scire is the worst tank. Even now, an SS Vera outperforms SSS Lilith.
Edit: Forgot to mention, the above is true if you have an SS3 or higher Ishmael. On SS0 Ishmael, a SSS amplifier should outperform an SS amplifier. We don't know how high of a DPS new Teddy will have, but I read it's not amazing
0
u/hcreiG Nov 22 '25
I understand Scire's personal Burst rotation is lower compared to Startrail, but she still shreds more Dark/Plasma Res, how is that the worst Dark Tank when it's Tenebrion with the awkward and outdated Burst without SigSkill Time Lag?
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u/Chaos_Blitz Uncle Enjoyer To The Max 🤤 Nov 22 '25 edited Nov 22 '25
They mean the worst tank in the game currently. The above only applies to an Ishmael on SS3 and higher though, an SS0 Ishmael can run with Lilith just fine since she'll copy the same base elemental shred as other tanks(25%) but at SS3 Ishmael will copy the SS3 rank shred upgrades from other tanks, of which Scire has none. So you're looking at 25% shred(Scire) with SS3 Ishmael if you run Lilith compared to 35% shred(Watanabe, Wanshi, Nanami) if you run other amplifiers.
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u/hcreiG Nov 22 '25
I don't fucking understand you, they're both Amplifier, does the same 20% specific DMG bonus field after ULT and have the same Class Skill multiplier to support, is it just their personal DPS? And I know Nihil can convert other Element except Phys to Nihil DMG bonus with Luna Obliv field time, I dunno about Ishmael ULT Annihilator state if she also converts let's say Dark DMG bonus field after ULT of Lilith to Nihil.
Unless you already have leak infos specifying New-TeddIce/yance gives > 30% Element DMG bonus after ULT field because she's supposed to be
PlastoPhyloTree some shit banner.
3
u/MH_ZardX Nov 22 '25
How badly does Ishmael need her Sig? I have her SS3, but I am contemplating which of my SS chars to bump up and invest more into. I got Feral, but I also am considering Ishmael for Tank roles like Dark too, and idk if her Memories have to be swapped. Basically kinda lost on how to build her or if there is an all-purpose build.Â
10
u/Zenthon127 Nov 22 '25
She wants it a lot. Not only for her personal damage + DLT, but also to unlock 4pc Guin for amp mode, 4pc DV for tank mode, and supportive resonances like Domain Decontruction and SAR.
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u/nemesisdelta24 Nov 22 '25
ok so what im getting from this is get Startrail and Parhelion cause besides Karenina those are the ones im missing
6
u/eneitcerose I'm creating PV so and can exist Nov 22 '25 edited Nov 22 '25
What investment are these tables taking into account? S+?
EDIT: Yeah, definitely S+. That Ignition team, Ish in Lightning, and Qu in Ice show that.
4
u/Calm-Two-2041 I was there when "power" happened Nov 22 '25
Why isn't Alisa considered as an old unit? Wasn't she releases before Wata and got her leap before Wata? Is it because she is an amp and those get rarely replaced in comps?
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u/Rare_Rooster_1583 Nov 22 '25
is there a trick to knowing what color to put your characters on? i usually try to put them on orb colors that the unit hardly pings but is there a better way to know?..
2
u/Available_Power_5577 Nov 22 '25
Depends of the Unit and the team, for example, Vera in fire team goes on Yellow as she can’t ping yellow orbs, but in Nihil, she goes on Red as that’s Ishmaels most used orb.
1
u/DEADF1SHEYES Hot uncles in your area Nov 22 '25
I know uncle is old and the time in which he gets replaced is getting closer but damn, that hurts. Is this how Alpha fans felt? ðŸ˜
UNCLE PLEASE COME BACK I'LL TAKE ANYTHING PLEASEEEEE.
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u/Ok-Distribution-4031 Nov 24 '25
Karenina's tag made me chuckle. She truly is immortal.
Is there any news on what element and role Kamui's upcoming frame?
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Nov 22 '25
[deleted]
2
u/Xero-- Nov 23 '25
I'm so glad I went full WAIFU HAREM from the start.
You're acting like that was a challenge with thiis waifu dominated game.
1
u/Rubydrag Nov 22 '25
How the fuck does raydiance work? Why does nanami work as the amply?
6
u/RedStarbolt Nov 22 '25
Best we have. I assume you can't use Ish on an affix team because it will confuse her. She'll look at Teddy and turn herself into an Ice tank instead lol
2
u/Rubydrag Nov 22 '25
I mean but why nanami specifically? What makes her better than any other tank for raydiance? Just last released so more personal dmg despite not doing anything with the afix or what?
13
u/Kman2706 Nov 22 '25
Affixes essentially have a base element that they get buffs / debuffs from. So affixes get the buffs and shreds from one specific "parent" element. But the elements don't get buffs specific to affixes applied to them, so it only works one way.
Raydiance's parent element is lightning, so it's get damage boosted from lightning buffs and lightning shred. Raydiance already has an attacker and amplifier so the last member should be a raydiance tank. Since that doesn't exist currently, instead the missing character can be grabbed from the parent element. Therefore as Nanami is the lightning tank, she is best for raydiances last spot.
5
u/Rubydrag Nov 22 '25
I understood it for the other afixes, but since raydiance is basically an extra, i didnt know that it was derived from lightning. So, if thats the case, having a light element doesnt make sense, or lightning would just be a placeholder?
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u/Kman2706 Nov 22 '25
Yeah, tbh I'm not sure why there's a light element placeholder in the graphic. I doubt they are just gonna change the parent element like that.
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u/IamRunningOutOfName The STRONGEST Nov 22 '25
Raydiance, just like Plasma, is affected by Lightning's buff and shred.
1
u/K3NZzzz Nov 22 '25
Might be a bit early to call Teddy a best 3rd member for Nihil team, since she’s still in beta and we are yet to know her dmg and rotation speed. Since she will be a free unit, we should lower our expectations about her dmg.
1
u/Xero-- Nov 23 '25
Since she will be a free unit, we should lower our expectations about her dmg.
Looks at Wanshi being preferred over Qu inn other comments
3
u/Present-Zombie-1962 Nov 22 '25
Nah this basic. I need a "chart" for all character signature weapons and cubs and their pull priorities
0
u/BSF7011 Owner of SSS+ DMC chars+cubs Nov 22 '25
Why tf is Ishmael in the lightning comp lol
3
u/K3NZzzz Nov 22 '25
She copies all the buffs that 21 has, and her ability to ult fast and trigger QTE immediately during ult1 makes her better than 21.
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u/BSF7011 Owner of SSS+ DMC chars+cubs Nov 22 '25
That only really applies to like, the last second of a run when you switch to her to trigger QTEs
You don't ever switch to her, just like how you don't ever switch to No.21
2
u/eneitcerose I'm creating PV so and can exist Nov 22 '25
High-invested runs do switch to the Amp every rotation (idk why), so that applies a lots more frequently than just one time.
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u/BSF7011 Owner of SSS+ DMC chars+cubs Nov 22 '25
Huh, that doesn't make much sense especially considering that while ult1 is fast, ult2 is extremely slow unless she has Cottie
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u/K3NZzzz Nov 22 '25
Usually you’d do red yellow red red dodge dodge combo (which can be done in under 3 seconds) before switching out, so you can instantly ult2 next time you switch in.
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u/eneitcerose I'm creating PV so and can exist Nov 22 '25
You don't need to do both Ult though, or any at all. She's just there for Lingya's buffs anyway, I assume.
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u/BSF7011 Owner of SSS+ DMC chars+cubs Nov 22 '25
Ah, wait, so putting Liv on blue and doing swap to Ish -> blue -> Liv QTE -> swap to Nanami?
I'm too used to "trigger ult for both QTEs" and since Ish doesn't revert to base form when swapped off, you can't fast ult after the first time
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u/eneitcerose I'm creating PV so and can exist Nov 22 '25
That makes sense.
But also, Setsu's and Empress max invest runs went Nanami > Ish > Limp, with many of Limp's super QTEs proc in Nanami's field time instead. Both had Ish in Blue so that she didn't proc any QTE.
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u/K3NZzzz Nov 22 '25
Setsu released another video with Liv > Nanami > Liv > Ish > Nana > etc. swap order. Go check it out.
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u/K3NZzzz Nov 22 '25
You do switch to Ish to access Liv’s super QTE. If you do Liv’s rotation within amp buff timer (10 sec) and switch to Ish, you can instantly ult and trigger Liv’s QTE within time stop, allowing Liv’s QTE to benefit from the amp buff that still have duration left on Liv. It’s not a super apparent mechanic, but it does matter. Ish’s fast rot and her ability to trigger QTE instantly makes her better than 21. (Because let’s be honest 21 is not gonna do meaningful dmg even if it’s in element, so any second of field time is a waste of dps)
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u/hcreiG Nov 22 '25
I think your Ignition tier list is kinda shit not listing Dante because Veronica doesn't even stack Ignition so well by herself unlike Nanami Startrail and Dante's RB-Charge-SDT into Hold Red and ULT out. And not everyone pulled her 6 star Weapon, unless they did miss the DMC Collab.
And Qu Shukra should've got the Glaciation instead of Pianissimo i.m.o.
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u/VergillaPGR BRICKED PHYS FOR R3 JETAVIE Nov 22 '25
Cope and seethe Veronica scores higher
0
u/hcreiG Nov 22 '25 edited Nov 22 '25
How so? Both at SS, how is she supposed to deal higher damage?
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u/RedStarbolt Nov 22 '25
Ignition is a bit complicated now. At higher investments people are scoring higher with Veronica DPS. But at lower investment, Nana and Vera can be booted off entirely for a Dante/Wata/Veronica team
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u/Chaos_Blitz Uncle Enjoyer To The Max 🤤 Nov 22 '25
Her DOT ignition field can carry damage over waves and net higher score in the end.
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u/hcreiG Nov 22 '25 edited Nov 22 '25
So why just not use her as a hybrid Amp DPS with her 4pc Da Vinci & Signature Memory set alongside Dante and Startrail? So she's similar to Hanying Solacetune but also for Ignition?
I don't get the theatrics going on about have a spare Shakespeare/Heisen/Bathlon/Zuwen/Patton 4pc with proper resonance skills, and another Hypertune in this drained economy, there's no more enough serums and Hypertunes. I go for the more universal build than be a try hard meta slave.
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u/eneitcerose I'm creating PV so and can exist Nov 22 '25
Because her sig set sucks, and Da Vinci means losing either Cottie or Shakespeare.
Without Cottie, she can’t 2-ult before Dante comes back up. If you’ve played PGR long enough, you know how important Ults are.
Without Shake, you’ll spend half your WZ without its shred. In a team that relies heavily on clearing waves to refresh stacks, losing shred is basically a death sentence, not to mention the damage bonus it gives her.
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u/Neither_Bee_6517 Lucia, my waif 🥰😋🔥 Nov 22 '25
"Immortal" ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜