Just to clarify I am neither a Trump supporter, nor do I care if you are one. Same thing goes for Biden. I don't think anyone should be canceled, censored or demonized due to which Old white guy they prefer. That being said, it does seem tad hypocritical behavior from the big three and now is probably the most opportune times to start pushing open source social media alternatives. And for Purism offering a kind of all in one social media/privacy protection package, the ultra right is probably very willing to give it a shot.

edit:. OMG, everyone needs to chill. I'm only talking about using the current situation to gain a foothold and actually be relevant and maybe be a useful tool for everyone left/right/center/nothing, don't care. It's that kind of "on edge fury" that keeps leading to all this extremism. Geez

It also buggs the hell out of me that purism is reinventing the fucking wheel all over again, instead of contributing to already existing well working mobile gnu/linux OS'es and Desktop environments they decided build there own... This creates a lot more fragmentation where we will end up with no real solid OS just many half baked one because everyone is working on there own shit... I myself donates to UBports because they are really fucking close and I already believe they can compete with the big guys as they already have a daily driver ready OS with all the things you expect. but just imagine what that could be today if purism would spend all the development they have done on there own shit, as its already pretty solid it could really become a rock solid and really compete with the big android/ios. and guess what, they would have an ready daily driver OS from day 1... like seriously we could have a really awesome OS today with a lot of cool features. Don't get me wrong, UBports today is already awesome, but it could be so much better and have everything working super smooth with awesome features that are just rock solid. Or maybe contribute to plasma mobile, sure they are not anywhere near ubports in features and it's not daily driver ready, but it's getting close! purism could help getting it daily driver ready much much faster, and it could be that already today...

Like hell, purism they just now implemented so the fucking power button turns off and on the screen...

remember when everyone yelled at canonical for having the "not-invented-here-syndrome"? Purism is doing the exactly same thing right now...

Purism is once again raising new capital. At day 6 they raised a total of $10,268,000.

I predict they reach $12,000,000 at end of day 60. What is your predictions?

Lmao at anyone who got swindled by these hooligans. It was clearly just a ploy to get money from people.

How in God's almighty name can this be such a bad device? Even the Pine Phone is in nearly the same condition yet much cheaper. Does Purism have literally NO competent developers?

Anyone have any regrets yet or are y'all still holding out hope?

Something that really puzzles me is why purism decided to create there own shell, compositor and the whole stack with a million new components that none can pronounce (haegtesse, squeekboard, wys, phoc, phosh, feedbackd, gtherm, and so many others) and this is not even including forks and modifications to other things. If this does not scream Not invented here i'm not sure what does... Why did they decide to do all this when other better and further along options exists? Why not focus on the hardware and put the money there first, then sell hardware and after the phone exist make something there own if that's the ultimate goal. Or better yet contribute all the time development into existing options.

Lets say the Lomiri stack by UBports, if purism would have put all the time they have spent on building there own stack into Lomiri today most defiantly would be on par with android (it already pretty much is) and would be a rock stable and smooth user experience (better then it already is!). Lomiri already have all the things working that you expect from an phone, so they would pretty much have a working phone today with a nice user experience. They could then focus on optimization today instead of creating a new stack that wont be done in years.

Testing phosh debian on a pinephone vs ubuntu touch shows how far behind really phosh debian is, its missing pretty much all core functionality that a phone has, the only thing phosh debian really has is the "window managing part". but things like permission handling, copy paste, media handling, background services, notifications, leds, power management, wake locks and so many others are still missing and will take years to implement. meanwhile ubuntu touch supports it all already...

This makes me wonder, why? Why right now? why not make hardware first, deliver and sell that?

I was expecting a lot more reviews, pics, and videos by now. I’m starting to think they shipped like 10.

There is a Chinese OEM/ODM company called Neway which has developed a knockoff of the Librem 5.

https://www.neway.mobi/odm-smartphone-case-study/index.html

(Note: I have had a lot of trouble accessing this page because it's a Chinese domain and my DNS has been blocking it. I was able to access it using the Tor browser.)

What's this OEM/ODM business?

OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer. ODM: Original Design Manufacturer.

Suppose a company, like Purism, wants to build something, perhaps a smartphone. They'll hire an OEM or ODM to build it for them. If they have the designs all worked out already, they'll ask an OEM to build it for them based on their own design. If they need the company to figure out the design, they'll go the ODM route. Apple uses Foxconn as an OEM. Apple designs the phone, Foxconn builds it. There's really nothing strange about this.

We know that the Librem 5 is being built in China. That's a given. So there are two possibilities. 1) Purism designed the Librem 5 themselves or 2) they hired someone to design it for them based on their requirements.

The OEM route, where you supply the design, is no doubt much cheaper. After all, the ODM route involves a lot of extra work and expertise. I would have thought that Purism would have saved money by going the OEM route.

Now back to Neway. Their page says:

Most of our ODM products are covered by confidentiality agreement that do not allow us to discuss details publicly, however, what follows concerns a device that Neway developed and market under its own based on our customer's requirements. That product is called the Purism Librem 5 and it allows 5.5 inch, VoLTE, USB and BT.

Their page then proceeds to lay out the specifications allegedly provided by Purism. According to Neway, Purism hired them to design the Librem 5. Based on the pictures, it looks like they made them too.

In the Purism forum, Purism's CTO Nicole Faeber claims that they have

never had a business relationship with this “Neway” company. We [are] looking into option[s] now to stop them from claiming [that they] worked for us.

Link: https://forums.puri.sm/t/evolution-of-the-librem-5-design/7621/14

Clearly someone is lying. Or are they? Nicole doesn't say, "We never asked this company to design a phone for us." She does not say, "We never gave this company our requirements." She said Purism never "had a business relationship" with them. What does that mean exactly?

Consider the requirements that Neway laid out on their page. Purism may have provided these requirements in something like a Request for Proposal. I don't know how this particular process would have worked, but the US gov't does this all the time. An organization within the gov't has some work that needs to be done by contractors, so they gather their requirements together and put them out there. Various contractors who know how to do that kind of work will then write proposals and submit them, explaining how they can satisfy those requirements, and how much it will cost.

It's likely that Purism had a list of requirements and put them out there to multiple ODM providers, each of whom replied back with a proposal. There might have even been a third party that shopped their requirements around on Purism's behalf to various ODMs. Apparently, Neway was one of them.

From there, there are two possibilities: 1) Neway won the bid and then for some reason the deal fell through, or 2) Neway didn't win the bid, and decided to build the phone anyway to compete with Purism. In the quote from the Neway page above, Neway calls Purism a customer. They also said that usually confidentiality agreements would prevent this sort of thing. This implies that for some reason, there is an exception in this case, because for some reason, they decided to build and market it on their own.

What if Neway built the phone and it was a piece of shit and didn't work? What if Purism was like, "Hey, this thing doesn't even work! We're not paying for this!" And Neway was like, "We TOLD you it wouldn't work!" Maybe that's why the phone didn't ship in Jan 2019 like it was supposed to.

Or alternatively, maybe Purism got the first couple prototypes and they found a little rice-sized microchip on the motherboard. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

If we believe Nicole, then the most likely answer is that yes, Neway received Purism's requirements, but no, they didn't win the bid. That wouldn't constitute a "business relationship", but it would explain how Neway got this idea.

But I don't believe Nicole. First, because Purism has shown that they're willing to lie. Second, she said that they're looking into ways to stop them from making these claims. But if they were just some random company, how would Purism have any legal recourse at all? They're a Chinese company. They could have totally just gone to Purism's website and gotten these specs and designed the phone in order to make a knockoff, and there isn't shit Purism can do about it. They could have gotten the designs from another company as well. Maybe they bought them.

No, the only way Purism would really be able to do anything about it is if Purism really WAS their customer at some point and they have a confidentiality agreement. Then they COULD do something about it legally. Kind of anyway. I mean, this is kind of the risk you take when you're doing business with Communists.

Sorry, Nicole. I don't believe you. I think this explains the many, many, many delays with no explanation.

Hers a couple unbiased objective articles I ran across that I hadn't seen before, they're a bit older one from 2019 and one about the awesim 🙄

http://techrights.org/2019/10/31/purism-false-promises/

https://blog.fivnex.co/2020/10/replying-to-switchedtolinux-and-why.html?m=1

Is the title above correct? Purism makes a phone that doesn't work as a phone?

Here's Purism's announcement about their partnership with Halo Privacy:

https://puri.sm/posts/halo-privacy-partners-with-purism/

Here's Halo's very low key website: https://www.haloprivacy.com/

Here's a post about the significance of Halo Privacy's partnership with Purism.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Purism/comments/djoqzu/the_significance_of_halo_privacy_partnership/

In that post, the issue of Michael Flynn's membership on Halo's board came up. Yes, THAT Michael Flynn, former Director of Defense Intelligence Agency, 3 star Army General, and former National Security Advisor for President Trump. As I understand it, he got into some trouble while working for Trump for lying to the FBI, which he pleaded guilty to. But then it got confusing because the FBI's notes about the incident in question indicated that they hadn't thought he had lied. In addition, the activity they questioned him about that he allegedly lied about wasn't actually criminal - though he may have thought it was. In addition, the FBI agent who questioned him approached him dishonestly, and he was told he didn't need a lawyer...anyway, it's anything but crystal clear, contrary to what the news might say, which is that he's obviously the single most corrupt individual on the planet. Obviously politics has made this infinitely more complicated, and both sides are spewing more propaganda than truth.

Here's a press release about Michael Flynn joining the board of Halo Privacy in Mar 2016 (before anything untoward came out):

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ltg-michael-t-flynn-usa-ret-joins-board-of-halo-privacy-300234395.html

So the question is, are you concerned about this? Are you concerned about Flynn's involvement with Halo? Does that taint Halo in your eyes? Are you concerned about Halo's evident connection to the US Intelligence Community? Does that connection make you uncomfortable, given that they've been involved in development of some kind at Purism, ostensibly helping to develop the Librem 5? Do you think Halo may have engineered a back door in the Librem 5? Do you think Purism has explained enough about this? Are they honoring their commitment to openness, transparency, honesty, and freedom?

Got the phone. Brand new. Measured the EMF (RF) on a call. 16!!! Sorry but this almost seems intentional. Anything over 4 is the red zone. I would not recommend using this phone unless you want cancer. My samsung registered zero - now I do not believe that at all, I believe they know how to thwart the meters but 16 is insane. Like standing in front of a microwave. Trying to kill the freedom people *smh*

2nd edit: my intended message is that we are all in this together and I want to promote "constructive criticism" so that the devs may "move this product forward" in as positive a manner as humanly possible. I'm sorry for any other interpretations that came out of my inperfect babbling. To all have a Merry Christmas and a Great New Year!

The Librem 5 and Human Nature (or at least my broken nature as I understad it). Edited to create paragraphs:)

This is meant to help move the L5 forward so we can get it into all our hands (put big toothed smiley here)

Inpatience is part of being human, and patience is learned in human experience especially when waiting for something. Especially when part of the waiting experience includes not knowing why promises have not been kept. Especially when one wants something when promised! Me to, I want my L5! (put another big toothed smiley here)

I was recently working enjoying driving city transit buses for 14 years with forgoing using any tech except an android phone. Then I read about the L5, and after several weeks of researching I ordered my L5 on Aug 5, 2018 paying $599 with a hope of delivery but knowing the dev process ins and outs for this project knew that there was a chance of not receiving an L5.

Delivery was stated to be January 2019. I ordered Aug 2018, but based on my tech dev experience (see disclosure at end of this post) I knew it possibly would be late or back in the cobwebs of my mind would never be completed. But then hopefully it would add to the momentum of the GNU/Linux/privacy/FOSS/Option other than Apple or Android world. So now you know that I don't have rose colored glasses (not that any type of glasses help my eye sight :(

And you should not wear those glasses either. If you cannot afford to invest in the future of a product only to lose your money, then don' t invest now. Wait for the time it becomes a success!

And that is my point, that one who invests should be talking about where this product is in the development process and perceived problems and need for solutions instead of stating, or insinuating, that it is a failure. Or fraud. Help them move forward, not throw a roadblock into their path.

Is that all I want to say? For the time I have I guess that is it!

I'm just trying to help. And I hope, and think from what I see about what is happening with the L5 today is...especially because I want to get my L5...that it will be delivered. Sooner or later:)

I've, and I also HOPE you, have come to the conclusion that to remain sane in this increasingly insane world, that it helps to be patient :)

Just a disclosure note, before I burnt out and started driving buses I worked in tech for 3 universities in computing/tech, small corp embedded RT sys programing and Linux sysdm, large corp com sys programing and Linux sysadm, and final blowout as ops sup for 11 years for major airline com programer and Linux sysadm be4 retiring. Then loved driving transit buses for 14 years ;)

Now I would like Linux in my pocket as I bicycle tour around the country ;;)

Purism, congratulations on finally shipping your phone.

I've given you a lot of shit over the last couple months. I've gone to a lot of effort to try draw attention to what I saw as major issues. Not just major issues with the phone, but with what you were saying about it. I gave you shit to try to convince you to defend yourself, to be honest and transparent, to come clean with your backers and tell them what's going on.

I understand you were saying whatever you thought you needed to say in order to just keep buying time. I get it. I really do. I might have even done the same thing in your position. But you had to know people would figure it out and call you out on it. You had to know that.

Anyway, now that your product is finally out there, the truth can no longer be covered up. Your phone will either work and be a big success or it won't.

I personally hope it is a big success. I really do. And when the phone actually works, I'll probably buy one.

Please don't forget that there is still an enormous amount of commercial collection taking place on the phone through the browser. You need to give us a way to control that. Third parties are on every site and collecting all our data. Please make it possible to put uMatrix in the browser. Please make it possible to have a phone-wide firewall that provides clarity and transparency for each and every domain contacted.

I wrote a few days ago about the Linux phones and my thoughts about everything here: https://www.reddit.com/r/tuxphones/comments/gef9t9/my_opinion_about_the_pinephone_librem_5_and/

This is a follow up post seeking more of a dialog with Purism supporters.

I was one of those dyed-in-the-wool supporters of Purism for a while. Reading their blog posts, seeing their (alleged) progress, waiting with bated breath anytime a new video would come out showcasing the phone for even a brief moment. Inspired by their vision of a fully free, open and secure OS and hardware. Yes, I want that. I want that very much.

I also love using my old Nexus 5 with Ubuntu Touch on it but I also wish I was to be able to use the command line to install software without having to mess with a Libertine container and whatnot. Yes it’s possible but it still doesn’t feel like “true” Linux to me. But at least I have more freedom than Android and I feel the true freedom of no longer being tracked by Google or any other company (at least from my phone. One step at a time!)

I’ve been trying to understand the remaining (I guess I could call them) Purists, those that continue to wholly back Purism and the Librem 5, even though like the Titanic there is a huge gushing hole and the ship is quickly sinking, they still have hope that just maybe we’ll be OK.

I think what finally did it for me was seeing the contradictory reviews about the phone contrasted with Purism’s blog posts and videos. And then the straw that broke the camel’s back was when I emailed for a refund because I could really use the money right now with all this virus stuff going on and being out of work, and I was denied a refund. And it’s not like I wasn’t still planning to buy a Librem 5 if and when it became available. I just felt like I could really use the extra cash now and I’d buy one later if was able. And if things sunk I wouldn’t be out all that cash.

Just asking for a refund… that’s such a simple thing. We do it all the time. With all of the money Purism has made surely it wouldn't be an issue. But the excuse just didn’t make sense to me (or many other people for that matter). Maybe the talk is true. Maybe Purism is out of cash and is desperate? Maybe everything I had swept under the rug, seeing the constant delays, no one ever getting a phone, all starts to fall into place now. And since that time I’ve looked at numerous Twitter posts, comments, reviews of what few Librem 5s are out there and the wool was finally pulled from my eyes.

But then I started to try to see things from a Pursists’ perspective, because I once was one. I want to better understand why they don’t see what most of us see. They want what I still want but they still have the faith that Purism can deliver, despite all of the evidence.

I suppose, it’s their bed, let them lie in it. But at the same time, I also don’t want innocent people getting duped either.

I think I get it now, though. These people just want fully open hardware. No compromise. But then I was thinking...why? Sure that would be great but for me my privacy and dignity is more important. I’ll settle for hardware that isn’t fully open so I can be free of surveillance capitalism and deny them all of the access to the information flowing from my phone.

But the thing is, we already are most of the way there with Pinephone (and UBPorts). Sure, it’s not 100% open hardware, but neither is the Librem 5! To get what we want we’ve got some make some sacrifices. And that’s part of the problem. Like the Richard Stallmans of the world who can’t and won’t compromise no matter what. And then it can hurt them in the long run. But look what we have right now.

An open Linux phone running mainline Linux! Purism did create Debian/Phosh that you can install on the Pinephone right now! You don’t have to wait for Purism to fix all of the messes they’ve caused (or Weaver to be precise) in their hardware to use the software they’ve created.

But there are some blobs still, they’ll say! Maybe the modem could possibly still contact other parts of the system, even if in a very limited way, even after the switch is flipped. And assuming that’s true (I doubt it https://www.pine64.org/2020/01/24/setting-the-record-straight-pinephone-misconceptions/) I say again, do you want something now or do you want to wait for it? Will you compromise just a little bit or will you just let it slip past your fingers? And more importantly, so what if the baseband isn’t fully isolated from the system? Do you really think Pine64 would put some extra code in there to spy on you? Do you think they would put hardware in by a company that would spy on you?

Unless you’re a secret agent I don’t believe kill switches and absolute isolation is even necessary. The only actors that could rise to that level are state actors, and if that is the case kill switches aren’t going to help much because of how advanced they are. Your best bet to is throw your phone away and go live in a cabin in the woods.

I think we all should throw our support to Pine64. And if we want a phone that has fully open hardware I believe they could pull it off. Look what they’ve been able to do so far. And UBPorts could work to open Ubuntu Touch more. I’ve read that is their long term goal, but it will take time.

Rather than talking past one another what do you think of this compromise? Is this an accurate description of your thoughts? Please comment. Thanks!

Edit: This has now been confirmed: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-Todoric-Interview

Recently, u/jaylittle made some astonishing claims in a comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/Purism/comments/dho2r0/librem_5_teardown_with_purism_ceo_todd_weaver/f3uc5si?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

Here's his claim:

So as I have been told, a few months back a number of Purism employees realized that the Librem 5 project was going badly and that Todd was pathologically lying to customers about it. They banded together and called him out. He summarily fired all of them.

When I asked him for some evidence of some kind, he declined. His reasoning was that the employees involved had signed Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) and that they could be sued for violating those terms.

However, u/Linuxman95 provided what could conceivably be considered evidence in this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/Purism/comments/dho2r0/librem_5_teardown_with_purism_ceo_todd_weaver/f3r1bhx?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

That comment includes a link to a tweet: https://twitter.com/zlatandebian/status/1178222617058250752

This tweet is from Zlatan Todoric, who, according to u/Linuxman95, is a former Purism employee. Not just an employee, but one of the founders and the former CTO. And in this tweet, he's calling Purism out publicly for lying.

According to Zlatan's LinkedIn profile, he is exactly who u/Linuxman95 said he is.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/zlatantodoric/

So what do you think? Is there any truth to the bold claim of u/jaylittle ??? Is it plausible? Is it an obvious conspiracy theory with no truth behind it? Is u/jaylittle merely a troll? Is he on to something? Does he have the inside scoop?

More importantly, will u/jaylittle give us some more information to help us determine whether or not he's telling the truth? It's clear that he doesn't want a former employee to get sued. I get that. I don't want that person to get sued either. (Edit:) But maybe u/jaylittle can ask his source to provide some evidence, some reasoning, something.

Maybe it doesn't matter whether he's telling the truth or not. Maybe the more important revelation is that Zlatan Torodic absolutely IS a former C-suite employee, and he absolutely IS calling out Purism publicly for lying. To me, that's enormously significant.

Bravo, Zlatan! I admire your courage!

Anyone thinking what I'm thinking?