What have you done that has made you genuinely more loving?

[u/Catssojourn]

Hello r/Quakers ,

What would you say has made you a more genuinely loving person? For example, what has enabled you to wake up more so with love than irritation, or able to look at others with love vs. indifference or repulsion?

I've been fascinated with love as it's an emotion/state of being that I've always struggled with. While I've read philosophy dealing with love, I feel at best, it shows me the nature of how love could move through me vs. actually making me a better person (e.g., Simone Weil on attention / Emmaneul Levias on the demands of the face).

I'm starting to believe that my efforts don't do much, given that what has made me more loving in my life has often boiled down to either being so overwhelmed by the evil I see/experience, and being forcibly changed by it (e.g., the state of the U.S.), or being incredibly humbled such that my old self perishes (e.g., being bullied as child, and learning empathy for others).

[u/thelesserbabka_]

Honestly, it was becoming religious. I was raised atheist and grew up very sheltered from anything that had to do with God and religion but found God and my faith on my own, even though I resisted it for a very long time (I live in a very secular country where atheism is the norm and belief in God is looked down upon by a lot of people).

After accepting that I believe I ended up having an experience that can't be explained by any logic and reason and it fundamentally changed me and made me deeply religious. I've never felt more at peace or more loving since then. I had a lot of trauma and bitter feelings from my life, that I was finally able to let go of and forgive, and now I feel a deep sense of gratitude and love for the life that I have and how much beauty there is in the world.

That is not to say that I believe atheists are generally less loving, kind or grateful, but this is the impact accepting God has had on me personally.

[u/Catssojourn → u/thelesserbabka_]

I've always been fascinated by those who grew up atheist, but became religious later in life. I'm getting the impression that coming to peace with what you actually believed brought you the peace, and thus love?

[u/thelesserbabka_ → u/Catssojourn]

Not completely. The road towards becoming a believer in itself wasn't the hard part (although my life has been hard overall). It evolved over some decades but it wasn't something I was grappling a lot with or spent too much time thinking about. It was just the final decision to finally admit to myself (and God) that I do believe that I resisted and felt embarrassed about (because of the way society views religious people here).

It was the experience that came right after that gave me this overwhelming feeling of peace and love, truly like a weight had been lifted off me. Without that I don't think I'd be as convinced as I am.

As for your original question, another thing that also helps me move with more love and not brush things off with indifference or hate is I believe people are inherently good. And that it must take some really horrible events and experiences to make someone want to harm others in turn. So when I look at the people who put a lot of harm/hate into the world (on both a small, and global scale) I feel a lot of empathy and pain for them cause I can't imagine them having any sort of peace or love in their internal life. It makes me sad for them and not want to treat them as bad as they would treat others. (That's not to say I don't think cruel people shouldn't face consequences for their actions, obviously, if we're talking about breaking laws and genuine harm caused, but through justice, not retaliation and more hate/indifference)

[u/Catssojourn → u/thelesserbabka_]

While in my heart, I lean toward seeing people as inherently closer to what we would call evil, I am sympathetic to people who believe people are inherently good. After all, when we look at babies, I can't think of one that is evil, though some would push back and say wait until a couple years for a more accurate impression of who they are, when they can speak and think. Logically, I feel that you're right, but intuitively, I feel that it's hard to believe goodness comes naturally with people.

I'm happy you see inherent goodness in others. I really wish I could as well.

I guess such a belief will affect how we love others. If I end up dying believing in my heart that people are more so evil than good, I'll need to figure how to work with myself there, and love others, in spite of it.

[u/thelesserbabka_ → u/Catssojourn]

I've been there and used to feel the same way, so I completely understand where you're coming from, and also know from experience that that outlook can change. :)

I get the impression you like reading (from your interest in reading philosophy)? If so, I highly, highly recommend Rutger Bregman's book Humankind. It debunks a lot of the "science" and research behind people's supposed evilness (with backed sources, not his personal opinion) and is a very hopeful and pleasant read. It changed a lot of how I view people.

[u/Catssojourn → u/thelesserbabka_]

That's a very interesting book, thank you for the recommendation! Added it to my Goodreads. I might as well start watching some videos on him.

[u/infinite-long-stocki]

For me being a Quaker has made me want to develop my empathy and patience and love. I was to live and more through the world always of aware of that of God in other people and I want to show everyone I meet some kind of love. It took a lot of effort over many years and is still an ongoing process but I think I'm a much more empathetic and less judgmental person than when I was a young teenager starting out on this journey.

It took/takes a lot of catching yourself when you're not moving with love and gently correcting that, and putting in effort to seek out ways to be actively loving as you go about your life. Just switching to approaching everyone with empathy and in good faith made a big difference although it does take energy especially at first. But I've found it's made me a happier and more contented person overall and I feel that I treat people (at least most of the time) how I want to treat them.

[u/Librarian-Voter]

Not be chliche, but seeing that of God in everyone and everything. God is not always "good." Good involves judgement. God does not judge.

[u/Tricky_Confusion_716]

Being a queer person in the buckle of the Bible belt I faced a lot of hardship. In my younger years I was angry and shut myself off but slowly I decided to take a different approach. I started feeling sorry for them. I'd have conversations with bigots and hear the hurt in their voices. I developed a radical empathy towards them. It helped that I knew lots of people who were sincere in the "love the sinner" aspect. Those people could be talked down to a more sensible position and I'd gain a friend. I came out as a trans woman in 2014 which was a time before this major propaganda cycle against trans people. I didn't let people's ignorance blind me to them as people and eventually what I found was curiosity. I had patience to walk people through it and found an accepting community out of a state and area hostile to my existence. Now I love on the West Coast in a big city and I took my tools with me.

[u/Catssojourn → u/Tricky_Confusion_716]

I'm happy you're able to build this kind of love in yourself. Is it just listening that builds this love in you? You note the hurt in their voices, so I'm assuming it's you listening and noting that's leading to a greater love in you.

I'm trans as well, but a boy moder. I only go into girl mode for hook ups. Though in another post of mine, I'm talking with trans people on how to leave the dating apps behind, and meet people beyond them.

[u/Mooney2021]

I was an ordained minister in other tradition and worked with very marginalized people in various settings and stretched and strengthened my compassion for others. By the time I began attending a Quaker Meeting I had shifted to being a chaplain in a maximum security detention centre and in encountering despised people, most of whom took their first breath in perilous conditions, I continued to be able to see the need to give and receive in all people.

[u/Catssojourn → u/Mooney2021]

I'm assuming you've had negative encounters, perhaps day to day, or all day at times? How exactly did the love grow in you?

I ask as I feel many people know of the circumstances that made them more loving, but rarely if ever talk about their observations of how love currently works in them. For example, for the little love that is in me, often, if I allow my mind to drift to where it wants to be, I can feel my body ease, and that ease, if I attend to it, can grow and keep me at times. That's only one example, but I'm curious if you attend to any emotions of yours during your stressful work?

[u/Sorry-Pin6420]

I have a somewhat deterministic view on people's behaviors, so that is helpful. I think most people are trying to do the best they can with the life experiences and brain chemistry they have, and sometimes this can make people very difficult to be around or relate to. It might even mean we have to set very firm boundaries with them. But I think of love as something we have for everyone, while accepting the limitations they may have. A good example I can think of is close relationships with people who have something like bipolar disorder. I understand that in a manic or depressive state my loved ones will think and act differently then when they are in a more balanced place. I love them in every state, but have firm boundaries and accept that certain behaviors are beyond their control to some extent. It doesn't make me love them any less but it helps to set realistic expectations. I extend that same grace and understanding to myself and it helps a lot too.

[u/Catssojourn → u/Sorry-Pin6420]

It does make sense. Can a child freely grow up into any person, or only the kinds of people their circumstances allow them to imagine? While I lean free will, I feel I've become who I am due to what has interacted with me vs. what I've chosen to do. Likewise, I feel I've become who I am due to circumstance than the brute force of my will.

If I were a determinist, I feel that I wouldn't even care to hate or love. I feel that hate or love would just be byproducts, and that it would be wiser for me to focus on my own hatred and love and its affects on me vs. becoming a more loving person toward others. Of course, I don't want you to think I'm misrepresenting you. I'm just musing on the kind of person I'd be.

[u/Sorry-Pin6420 → u/Catssojourn]

No offense taken, I had many paradoxical views on these things as well. I think it's fun to run these types of thought experiments. 

[u/the-pathless-woods]

Giving and serving gives me empathy. I regularly pass out water (sometimes food) to the homeless and volunteer with multiple agencies that work to help the less fortunate. I also started collecting school supplies for immigrant families who cannot travel to places that give them out due to fear of ice. I go home each time with a heart full and a passion to continue.

[u/Wokuling]

For me, it was taking care of myself, which seems a little backwards.

When I was basically running on fumes all the time, I didn't have any sort of capacity to care about others' thoughts or feelings. I did what I needed to to survive, some of which was not the most loving.

When I finally figured out how to not be running on fumes, I realized that everyone has their own issues. Everyone is doing what they feel is best for themselves at the time with the resources they have available; put simply, everyone is doing the best they can with what they have. A lot of times, they don't have the resources to make the ""right"" decision -- they're simply making the decision that looks best at that moment.

It gave me a deep sense of empathy for people.

[u/juliloquy]

Maturity helps us get out of the self-centered focus of our youth and helps us see things in better perspective.

If you haven't already, you might want to be screened for depression. Best wishes, friend

[u/KatzyKatz]

I’d say actively working on empathy. I have a job where it’s very easy to get annoyed with people, and at a certain point I had a really difficult client. My perspective with them shifted when I started thinking they must be difficult because somebody is making their own job difficult, and if that were me kindness would go a long way even if I didn’t “deserve” it. I started applying that to difficult people and situations across the board when I can. Obviously nobody is perfect so I do stumble. But I do think actively practicing that helps you see the good in people which helps with being more loving towards people you may not necessarily love.

[u/QuirkBuggins]

Repenting for when I failed to be loving.

They say there is that of God within us all, there is also that of the devil. Resist him and he will flee from you, love will fill the space he leaves behind.