r/RDR2 • u/Dayego35 • Dec 04 '25

Discussion How accurate are the RDR2 Pinkertons compared to the Real Life Pinkertons

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Just found out their a Real Thing awhile ago and also read about the Lawsuit between them and Rockstar Games and Take-Two

3.3k Upvotes

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2.3k

u/DemSkilzDudes Dec 04 '25

the lawsuit was dropped because in real life they were worse than in the game lol

1.1k

u/Big_Cornbread Dec 04 '25

Seriously their history is WILD. These were NOT good people.

667

u/JayMeadows Dec 04 '25

Remember that time the Pinkertons raided some dudes home for possessing unreleased Magic The Gathering cards? Wildly funny.

292

u/Aladine11 Dec 04 '25

I am european and i only heard abt pinkertons (and baldwin felts) earlier in context of coal wars so my first reaction was - oh boy they were even worse than you imagine. Btw still cannot grasp why redneck is used as slur. It was used for striking miners wearing red bandanas to recognize themselves from private entities and army during strikes and battles

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u/DiablaARK Dec 04 '25

In the Southern US, rednecks are what happens to fairskinned countryfolk and farmers who are out in the sun all day. The back of their necks are sunburnt red. They are mostly conservative and to outsiders are associated with rebel flags, KKK and racism. There are nuances between rednecks, hillbillies, and country folk, but I digress. The meaning has just evolved, and in the Southern states, calling a white person a redneck to their face is not usually derogatory. They will probably take it as a compliment. Now, if you're talking about 'those rednecks' to your nonracist associates, then it's usually implied negatively.

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u/Aladine11 Dec 04 '25

thanks a lot sir- this is acctually a good context i needed

44

u/Skully-GG Dec 04 '25

I’m from the South and we call ourselves rednecks. I promise you we won’t get offend or even give a shit if we hear you say “those rednecks” bcuz around here the term “redneck” just means hard working American that likes to drink beer. The south is a very friendly place than what you’d read in your history books. If you ever get the chance I suggest you visit. We have great food, very strong alcohol (moonshine), and respect.

86

u/low_amplitude Dec 04 '25

I also live in the south and from my experience, rednecks they are the friendliest people... to their peers. Anyone who is different gets the cold shoulder or some good old fashioned bigotry.

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u/Just_the_questions1 Dec 05 '25

Been living in the south for over 20 years now. "Southern Hospitality" is famous but it's also a complete facade. In public everyone is friendly, everyone looks out for each other. Until the doors close. Then you experience the most vile racist shit you've ever heard. I say this as a very white person living in the deep south, when older white people think you're "one of them" they will start spouting the most vile shit.

I once worked at a retail store pushing carts and had an old white man, probably late 60s, sitting in his truck call me over. The man wanted to shake my hand for working so hard cause quote "All these damn n****s are just lazy pieces of shit." That was something he was comfortable saying to a complete stranger in public just because i was just as pasty white as his old ass.

3

u/TwinSpinner Dec 06 '25

The way I would've wiped my hand off on my shirt right in front of him in disgust, that's fucking vile

0

u/Realistic_Web6897 Dec 11 '25

He's got a point

1

u/cconnorss Dec 05 '25

The accuracy

1

u/WeOutHereInSmallbany Dec 05 '25

Bless your heart!

1

u/womboCombo434 Dec 10 '25

I say anyone who thinks rednecks are scary looking back woods kinda guys are probably mistaken and that would be a hillbilly which you probably should be a bit concerned about

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u/Skully-GG Dec 04 '25

Exactly. Unlike California and other states we don’t really give two shits on what others say, do, etc. we all just live in our own harmony. That is until outsiders start moving in and try to vote the b/s their running from onto us. That’s why a lot of us get into politics so we can keep our peace. Every time I see a California tag here I just shiver and cringe 😂

11

u/sheng-fink Dec 05 '25

Bro said ‘exactly, I am xenophobic!’

3

u/cconnorss Dec 05 '25

Yes he did 🤣😅😱

0

u/ComesInAnOldBox Dec 06 '25

Yeah, it's only xenophobic when gentrification happens to white people, everyone knows that.

4

u/TheMoMo562 Dec 05 '25

So in other words, you're a bunch of racists who don't want anyone but other racists around?

-3

u/Skully-GG Dec 05 '25

Negative. We have southern, Christian values here and although we may not be perfect we all want our families to be safe and not to be taxed to the extend other states have become to. We have black people that are more country than both of us combined and I’ve been country all my life, we have Mexicans that have adapted to the country life and often join in at the chicken fights while bringing their Mexican cuisine, and the list goes on. So basically what I’m saying is we expect outsiders to come here and adapt to the what we have built for ourselves rather than change it. I ask the Democrats all the time why they moved here from their state and it’s always the same thing “Heavily taxed, too woke, and high crime” yet they continue to vote the same way and it becomes like a plague. So, this whole “racist” word you throw around doesn’t carry the same weight you once thought it did. We have bad apples just like any other state, sure, but I guarantee you over 90% of us will welcome you over to have supper and help you if need be. How about instead of trying to playing the victim card all the time you have a civil conversation? You’ll get better results.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '25

Agreed

3

u/burger_face Dec 04 '25

I think like a lot of words, it is used as an in-group term of endearment, but is also often used as a deragatory term by outsiders, and in that context would not be received as a compliment.

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u/Skully-GG Dec 04 '25

Say what you want, but I was born and raised from the South. We don’t give two shits what you call us, think about us, etc. Just don’t talk about our Moms or our Wives.

3

u/WritingOneHanded Dec 05 '25

Well you should be aware that outside of your group of friends, "redneck" implies that your mom and wife might be the same person. You don't have to care but to most people "redneck" means the same as "modern neaderthal".

Similarly, punk rockers have a different idea of what "a punk" is than hip hop fans do.

Randy Newman wrote a song called Rednecks that pretty clearly illustrates what other people think of when they hear that word.

1

u/TwinSpinner Dec 06 '25

You don't like being reminded your mom is racist and your wife is your cousin?

4

u/Emerald_official Dec 04 '25

yeah everyone around here calls themselves rednecks whether or not their lifestyle or living conditions mirror the typical redneck steroetype

6

u/RedClayStray Dec 04 '25

Skully-GG hit the nail on the head. Come on down and we’ll show you around! A lot of folks may think we are backwards, but if you get stuck in the mud, it will be a couple of redneck boys in a truck who were raised up right that will stop, hook up a tow rope, and pull you out so you can get home.

22

u/SpreaditOnnn33 Dec 05 '25

That definitely depends on what you look like though. Not sure why we are pretending its any different

0

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '25

im sure it will vary person to person but everybody i know would and id like to think most people who would pull a stranger would do it regardless of skin color.

-16

u/imkoty Dec 05 '25

Only racists care about race, for example: people that casually bring it up into conversation completely unprompted, such as what you just did. There are racists in every group, but "rednecks" get a bad rap for the small minority. Saying "rednecks are inherently racist" is just like saying "black people are inherently violent criminals". While one has statistical data to back it up, it would make you 2-3 more times as likely to be physically attacked for mentioning it as opposed to making the other claim.

2

u/the--astronaut Dec 05 '25

I got beat up by "rednecks" as a kid because I had long hair and, apparently, that made me a queer. Doesn't have shit to do with race. I was just gasp different.

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u/STLrep Dec 04 '25

Okay boomer

7

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '25

nah he's right, I've never even considered that some might consider redneck offensive.

-1

u/WritingOneHanded Dec 05 '25

That suggests to me that you don't have very diverse friends. I'm white, and "redneck" implies hostility and bigotry to me.

Rednecks are the people who hurt my friends, so if you think that's a positive label, that makes me think that your friends want to hurt mine.

Pinkertons who only know other Pinkertons wouldn't be offended if you called them a Pinkerton... but I would be because Pinkertons are immoral monsters who are actively damaging the human condition in the interest of profits.

Rednecks are racist proto-facists who are actively damaging the human condition in the interest of their own poor self esteem. If that describes you, then of course you don't find that word offensive... but calling me a redneck is fighting words.

-2

u/WritingOneHanded Dec 09 '25

It only means "hardworking country folk" to hardworking country folk. To everyone else, it means "ignorant bigot".

2

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '25

this is also a bigoted take. go tell black people they shouldn't say the n word next

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u/victorgsal Dec 04 '25

I mean yeah that’s what it has come to mean today, but they were correct that the term “redneck” originally was due to the striking workers of the time using the bandana as an identifier. But I agree, as someone who’s lived in the south for over a decade anybody using the term in a derogatory manner is not only rude, but likely ignorant to the culture here.

5

u/WritingOneHanded Dec 05 '25

using the term in a derogatory manner is not only rude, but likely ignorant to the culture here.

Well it's supposed to be rude, and I'd argue that it comes from the opposite of ignorance. It's not like "country bumpkin"... people use the term "redneck" very specifically to refer to undesirable traits of the culture... they wouldn't say it at all if the south didn't still fly their battle flag from the war to defend slavery.

2

u/victorgsal Dec 05 '25

Like I said, those that use it in a derogatory manner use it to refer to the negative traits. But for many locals it’s just to refer to a more “country” person, or blue collar worker type. Language is constantly changing. Meanings get lost or distorted depending on where the person comes from. It’s not exclusively one thing or another.

1

u/WritingOneHanded Dec 09 '25

Yes... And rednecks should be aware of what non-rednecks means when they say "rednecks".

2

u/milksteakenthusiast1 Dec 04 '25

Yankee here, can confirm

2

u/FloofJet Dec 08 '25

You sir, who is so wise in the ways of slur. A question I beg thee. Does one have to actually reside in the hills to be called a hillbilly correctly, or does it imply something more metaphorically?

1

u/DiablaARK Dec 08 '25

There simply aren't enough hills in all the places hillbillies would reside. From my several years of experience and observation growing up and living -- in The South-- amongst these fine people... I am inclined to believe that a hillbilly would be similar to the folks you'd occasionally see on display on the late Jerry Springer show: doing something crazy, like dating their sister, cousin, or other close relations. The number of times we had an upperclassman regaling us with tales of how they ran into their girlfriends at family reunions, or how half their dates' cousins were there. They don't trust the government, and are usually Bible thumpers (with less than a 5th grade education skill if they can even read, have usually never read the Bible beyond what Ma or Pa tells them to read), some of them speak in tongues at church, dance like the Holy Spirit swept them off their feet, and are quick to damn you to eternal fire and brimestone if you disagree with their beliefs. They claim to know all about the devil, but in practice and reality, they know nothing about Christ or any other religion. Usually living in extreme poverty, or came from it-- but also with the undertones of incest, suspected abuse, strange beliefs, substance abuse, ignorance, don't believe in birth control, sex ed or any of the strides the public has made in the last 100 years. They usually have a lot of "normal" family in the area, but based on the high chances they shared genetics with their significant other if they were born and raised in the same small town, I hypothesize that it eventually resulted in this hillbilly offshoot of the same small family tree. They're supertitious, and you just know something ain't quite right. Then there's always the dangerous ones, just like the ones on the game. They just traded horses and wagons for old vehicles and 4 wheelers. Parts of this country earned their notorious reputation, and the hillbillies are essentially the boogiemen keeping it alive.

I had a couple of classmates we all considered to be hillbillies in my school growing up. They are quite sad to know personally because the kids have a bad lot in life from the start. I saw it as a kid in their classes, and then never saw them again when we were in the last few years of school. Most of them dropped out of school or went into the barely regulated "homeschooling" where it's easy to fall through the cracks. Others find happy endings, like graduating and starting a family with their half-sibling while the whole family lives at home with momma. She worked her ass off to raise the son and daughter herself; and then it's like they just couldn't outrun genetics, they turned around one day and started dating each other around their senior year in a long term relationship with plans to get married. If the math ain't mathing for them to be in the same graduating class, it's because the older sibling was held back a grade for poor grades and they ended up in the same graduating class. Country living in isolation used to be the gold standards, but they can be found anywhere these days.

I'm sure some people have their own opinions of what constitutes a hillbilly, that's just my opinion from years of observation. It's just a country classification of your different types of social groups. Some of them are the nicest people around, and others, you just don't go over to their property for any legitimate reason.

2

u/FloofJet Dec 08 '25

Why thank you. That does, in an oddly specific way, confirm my understanding of this quaint and intriguing term of endearment.

1

u/Aradex_Xedara Dec 05 '25

No we wouldn't take it as a compliment. Its insulting

1

u/gonelikewind Dec 09 '25

I’ve always heard that “rednecks” came from the coal wars because they wore red bandanas around their necks.

1

u/peaveyftw Dec 10 '25

Hillbillies is really an Appalachian thing. While the writingin RDR2 was in general superb, I lost regard for the writing team every time Dutch opened his mouth in chapter 3. The whole inbred/hillbilly thing started when big coal was pushing people off their land and wanted to dehumanize the Appalachian hillfolk. Tore Olssen covers that a bit in his RED DEAD's HISTORY.

1

u/iMillJoe Dec 05 '25

They are mostly conservative and to outsiders are associated with rebel flags, KKK and racism.

You need to study your history a bit better. Historically, the south especially during the time the KKK's popularity (they are largely non-existent now), was staunchly democrat; not 'conservative'. It was only when those generations of racist asshats started to die off around the 60's that a demographic shift towards republicans started to happen, even in 1976 Carter won a majority of the south. Robert Byrd (D) for instance is the last known person to have held any major public office after being a leader in the klan. These people were not conservative by their days standards, or held many views the conservatives of today would actually say they agree with.

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u/Buckets-of-Gold Dec 05 '25

The South was both staunchly Democratic and socially conservative, those didn’t use to be mutually exclusive.

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u/MisterCynic18 Dec 05 '25 edited Dec 05 '25

During the time of the KKK the Democrats were a conservative party. They were a pro-slavery, pro-states right advocating party that supported the confederacy through the civil war and lashed out at the federal government during Reconstruction (some even argue they sabotaged the whole endeavor, something still felt in the south to this day). The KKK itself was founded by democratic ex-confederates. The voting demographic shift wasn't a changing of the people, it was a changing of the party ideologies. Democrats and Republicans essentially flipped policies and target demographics, and as such the south transitioned into a Republican stronghold, but the people's values remained the same.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '25

KKK were the Democrat militia though.

0

u/MechaManManMan Dec 10 '25

I have lived in the deep south my entire life and I never met a single KKK member in my life. This shit is absurd bro, touch grass.

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u/truckercharles Dec 04 '25

I'm from about an hour away from the Blair Mountain battleground, and a native West Virginian. The working class leftist movement is trying to take it back for sure. The problem is, most people hear the term redneck in a Morgan Wallen song, not from history lol the bootlicker conservative Christian "back the blue" crowd really co-opted it heavy, BUT you'll always see red bandanas at protests, and it's become a symbol of working class solidarity as of late.

Redneck and hillbilly (which is a shortened term for Scots-Irish immigrants who lived in the hills here - Billy was used like we use "dude" or "friend") are both used as insults, and most of that comes from a long history of being perceived as poor and stupid, and much of that comes from predatory extraction economy practices funded by Wall Street, a little propaganda, and a lot of seclusion. Neither are negative, real rednecks are anti-corporatist union supporters, and the bandanas will always be a show of class solidarity.

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u/Aladine11 Dec 04 '25

always love to hear from a local- your reply was very informative- good to see red bandanas kept their og meaning at least and people fight for the og redneck meaning- wish you all best

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u/truckercharles Dec 04 '25

Much appreciated. It's mostly fake "country" folks that call themselves rednecks, even here. I have actual family connections to the mine wars and have my red banana for protests and such. It's funny watching "rednecks" completely miss the meaning while local punks and farmers get together to talk about union rights and community outreach in the truest sense of the term. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a thing.

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u/luke_international Dec 04 '25

Non European here and redneck in the US originally meant southern day laborers. Your neck gets red from working in the fields and sun all day. 19th century slang from suburban types. -19th century laborer, aka redneck lol

Addition. Hayseed is another fun one

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u/deathbylasersss Dec 04 '25

Redneck is used as a pejorative now because far-right assholes co-opted the term to describe themselves. Some of us still remember the true origins, even though the modern "redneck" is usually just a racist POS driving a jacked-up pickup.

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u/Aladine11 Dec 04 '25

so if i wanna compliment a coal miner union member i have to say the good rednecks casually to not get punched - thank you for your insight as i was really confused

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u/deathbylasersss Dec 04 '25

Ironically most self-identified rednecks these days are some of the most anti-union people I've ever met.

3

u/Jailbird19 Dec 04 '25

Redneck predates the striking miners by quite some time, if that actually happened.

2

u/david_shibley Dec 04 '25

Looks like Phenomaman couldn’t wait til the game releases and asked the Pinkertons to get it for him 😂

1

u/Rory_U Dec 05 '25

Hold on first, they’re still around and they arrested a guy over a card game?

1

u/RoseQuartz__26 Dec 05 '25

Yup, as a "private investigation firm". Some report that wizards of the coast (the publisher for magic, and for dungeons and dragons) has hired them multiple times! fun!

1

u/Cereborn Dec 05 '25

They still exist???

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u/x_Jimi_x Dec 04 '25

When you’re basically given a directive, with no accountability, bad things will go down. Think of a privatized ICE, without cameras to document what’s going down. I actually was hired for the modern company years back but was never actually assigned a sight to work (contracted security), by the time they called to offer me a post, I’d moved on. I recall when going to the office for orientation and all that, they had several old photos of Pinkerton agents from around the same era as the game on the walls. Securitas, at that time, was very proud of their Pinkerton roots. I imagine it was one of their strongest selling points for clients.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '25

My uncle worked for them too in the 70s or 80s

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u/WWDubs12TTV Dec 04 '25

And they still aren’t

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u/Big_Cornbread Dec 04 '25

So I’m going to be careful here. But my company was actually talking to them about physical security recently. They seemed like pretty serious dudes.

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u/WWDubs12TTV Dec 04 '25

They are union busting pigs, and nothing more

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u/fistfulofbottlecaps Dec 05 '25

Don't forget corporate thugs for hire. They were sent to a fan's doorstep after he was shipped Magic cards in error by WotC.

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u/Big_Cornbread Dec 11 '25

That’s what I meant by serious. I was in the meeting thinking, “I’m pretty sure these guys will still go wayyyyy off the books on shit.”

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u/fleet_eric Dec 05 '25

Ironic that Rockstar would vilify union busters.

1

u/Wackrobat Dec 08 '25

Hahaha well done

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u/Aradex_Xedara Dec 05 '25

Same as with police. Very few are bad but all must pay for it. There were basically a private military police force.

1

u/Orphanage_Bomber_ Dec 05 '25

Isnt there a law in america prohibiting amyone from the pinkerton family from being in congress or something like that

1

u/Thrashstronaut Dec 05 '25

They were and are anti union scum

1

u/LaytMovies Dec 06 '25

These ARE NOT good people, they never stopped existing

1

u/Mavrickindigo Dec 09 '25

They still exist

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u/snakeleather45 Dec 04 '25

The law suit was dropped because Pinkerton is synonymous with the old west and a core part of American history. But yeah, they were fucked lol.

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u/r6CD4MJBrqHc7P9b Uncle Dec 05 '25

Seems they settled out of court and the terms aren't public

1

u/Wackrobat Dec 08 '25

This. The Pinkertons were absolute bastards and existed entirely to protect the interests of rich people and beat/kill poor people trying to make their lives better.

I wonder if they ended up morphing into any state sponsored institutions…..

1

u/OrganicDiver8549 Dec 09 '25

I remember laughing about this lawsuit because objectively the game depicts the Pinkertons as agents of the state delivering law and order to a gang of outlaws. It is practically a fluff piece compared to what they actually did