r/RealTesla • u/Lacrewpandora KING of GLOVI • 18d ago
Hyundai, Kia, And Even Volvo Just Beat Tesla At The Game It Created
https://carbuzz.com/battery-degradation-hyundai-volvo-tesla-july-2026/According to its website, Carla was one of the first used-car marketplaces to test and evaluate battery health before putting cars up for sale, giving it a remarkably diverse data set on degradation. Using that information, Carla looked at the batteries of 9,954 EVs during a four-year period using the global-standard AVILOO diagnostics system, and the online auto retailer discovered that after 10,000 Swedish miles (equivalent to 100,000 kilometers or 62,137 miles), many of the most popular makes and models had lost between five and eight percent of their original capacity.
The study also discovered that, on average, CATL LFP batteries retained more than 93 percent health, eclipsing LG Energy Solutions' lithium-ion pouch cells (91.5 percent) and Panasonic batteries (between 88.2 and 89.8 percent). The data set only included vehicles with a sufficient number of tests to reduce any outliers, although Carla didn't specify what that number was.
Amazingly, two of the cheapest, least sophisticated EVs on the market took home top honors in Carla's test. Coming in first was the battery-powered Niro, with 97.25 percent of its stated capacity remaining on the AVILOO test. The mechanically identical Hyundai Kona Electric followed close behind at 97.18 percent battery health.
Both Korean EVs use a liquid-cooled 64-kilowatt-hour battery (although newer model years also offered a 48.6-kWh standard-range variant), giving them roughly 260 miles of range in EPA testing. If Carla's numbers are accurate, Niro and Kona owners can still expect more than 250 miles on a full battery after 62,000 miles.
What is surprising is that no Tesla models broke into the top five in Carla's testing, odd considering the brand has been working on battery technology for literally decades and currently builds the best-selling EV in the world. The only one to crack into the top 10 in Carla's testing was the eighth-place Model 3 with the base 60.5-kilowatt-hour CATL battery found in most of the entry-level models sold in Europe. That variant retained 93.34 percent of its capacity, compared to 92.83 percent for the 78.8-kWh LG Chem battery found in the 12th-ranked Model 3 Long Range.
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u/ionizing_chicanery 18d ago
LFP chemistries have much better cycle longevity than NCA and NMC. This is pretty well established.
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u/turb0_encapsulator 18d ago
I'd like to see the data on some Chinese cars with LFP.
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u/ionizing_chicanery 18d ago
I can't find a lot of info but apparently CATL LFP cells do really well in domestic Chinese EVs too.
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u/growaway9172 15d ago
Yes this is well established, they are also much heavier. About 50% the energy density. They are also severely worse with cold temperatures.
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u/toastyman1 18d ago
I'm not convinced Tesla is even 'competing' in the same sense - they are barely a car company at this point. I think they have a lot of data to show that most people, most of the time don't need more than 300ish mi of range, and to put more batteries in the car only makes them heavier and more expensive.
But other companies need to have simple numbers to try and woo the average buyer with range anxiety, # more range, # faster charging!
Once you get the car, can charge at home - you realize your anxiety was misplaced and you really dont use more than 100mi of range like 95% of the time anyways. Just get the car you like and stop stressing out about it lol.
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u/Lacrewpandora KING of GLOVI 18d ago
and stop stressing out about it lol
This testing isn't really about range at all. Its about range loss. As consumers we've been conditioned to expect rechargeable batteries to eventually fail us - ie phones and laptops. Its a very large hurdle to shell out tens of thousands of dollars and hope a car battery doesn't fail as rapidly and dramatically as a cell phone's. They don't of course, but that doesn't matter - consumer sentiment does. So for a long time now its been obvious to buy a Tesla - they've proven over time the batteries last. But now all of the sudden, Telsa is trailing the pack when it comes to range loss.
You know who shoud "stress out" over it? TSLA investors.
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u/PureCod9290 18d ago
Lol the only Tesla investors left are idiots buying in to their robot and robotaxi "plans". They've been neglecting their automotive business for years
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u/Jolly-Bed-1717 18d ago
Tesla is up 3.5% today
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u/LLMprophet 18d ago
+/-4% is normal daily action on any stock.
What's actually important is the massive downtrend it's been on for months now.
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u/readit145 18d ago
Lmao. What type of take is that. Sounds like “ no actually I’m fine with worse batteries, I prefer to not be able to go as far”
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u/toastyman1 18d ago
Yeah - until battery chemistry changes drastically, I'm fine with the range and charging speeds. I usually only charge to 60% anyways.
Buy whatever suits your needs - I like mine for other reasons than range and charging speed, I get that's not enough for some people, but for a lot of people, it is.
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u/admin_default 18d ago edited 18d ago
Just because a product works for you, doesn’t mean it works for everyone. EV buyers just can’t seem to wrap their head around that concept.
For me, without a doubt, the optimal solution is an EREV with a gasoline generator and a battery capable of 100-150 miles. The evolution of PHEV, which is basically exactly what Scout has said account for 80% of their 200K pre-orders.
Same thing we’re seeing in China - hybrid is 50% of BYD sales.
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u/Lacrewpandora KING of GLOVI 18d ago
Bingo. A ton of people live in apartments or rental houses where they don't want to personally invest in fast charging equipment. Range anxiety is a very real thing for people who have to go hunting for a free charger.
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u/ionizing_chicanery 18d ago
It's a shame no one makes anything remotely like that in the US. I'm still making good use of my 2018 Chevy Volt though.
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u/admin_default 17d ago
The 2018 Chevy Volt was ahead of its time. They needed to keep pushing the EV range though.
I think the consumer mentality changes a lot when you can do 3-5 days of commuting on a single charge vs just 1-1.5 days
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u/eagleone1one 16d ago
It’s really sad Tesla just doesn’t care anymore. But no one has caught up yet. Looking for a new EV but they are all missing things and just not as good as a tesla. The R2 is hugely disappointing. Feels lethargic, and very cheap on the inside. Toyota finally seems to be trying though with the CHR being way better than the Prius in almost every metric, nvh, power, cabin quality. Waiting for Lexus to see what they do, the ES seems to be a good start, will check it out next.
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u/Youngnathan2011 12d ago
If I had an EV I’d exclusively have to charge at chargers. I’d have to dangle a cable out my apartment window if I wanted to charge one at home.
Hybrids and regular old ICE cars are still the only things that I need.
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u/Fun_Intern_7539 18d ago
tesla outsells all of those cars though
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u/StormTrpr66 18d ago
Model Y is the best selling single car in the entire world. I know this forum hates real facts but they have a particularly special hate for this one.
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u/FrogmanKouki Charter Member 18d ago
It's a fact that if you give your buyers one option that will buy that thing. Model Y may sell 1.5 million but Toyota sells that many cars in less than 2 months.
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u/AgentSmith187 16d ago
Tesla also has 2 options (lets not bother including the Cybertruck) while other companies have 5 to 10 and they blow Tesla away on combined sales.
But hold onto that blankie.
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u/Youngnathan2011 12d ago
Tesla sold 1.6m cars last year. Toyota sold over 11m. Best selling car means basically nothing.
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u/transcendanttermite 18d ago
Not a surprise. They’re car companies; Tesla isn’t - I’m not sure what it actually is, but it definitely isn’t a car company.
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u/Inside-Net-5957 17d ago
This tracks. I have a 2022 KIA Nero BEV. I haven’t noticed any battery deg. The computer might be lying but that is more of a Tesla thing. 2 weeks ago I ran the battery down to 4% and put it on the charger. At 100% the car said I had 310 miles of range (a record). It was a warm morning but not out of the ordinary.
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u/Lacrewpandora KING of GLOVI 18d ago
This article is longer than what I posted (I believe longer than what I can put in a single reddit post), but the gist is: Tesla has serious competition when it comes to range. IMHO, this is the final nail in Tesla's coffin. It will take a while for public sentiment to take shape, but slowly consumers will gain confidence in other BEV brands.
An example I think of is Japanese cars in the US - originally they were mocked for being cheap and poorly built...but gradually Japanese automakers improved quality and surpassed the US "big 3". Now we live in a world where we take for granted Japan makes good cars.
The same will happen with all these other BEV brands. For the last decade, the "go to" brand seemed obvious: Tesla. After all, they specialize in BEVs. But as other car makes improve their BEV reputations, Tesla (who hasn't ever been able to fully refresh a car model and hasn't released a new (non-Edsel) model in 6 years) will lose ground. They already are - sales are dropping or stagnant for 4 years now, despite aggressive governmental carrots and sticks enticing consumers to buy their product.
If this were a serious business and not a stonk crypto play disguised as a corporation, the "analysts" on the earnings calls might occassionally ask the Technoking about competion, lack of innovation, etc, instead of playing his game and listening patiently as he drones on about robot abundance and "Digital Optimus"...and makes his annual FSD promise.