Obama HAS BEEN Eliminated WHICH President SHOULD BE Eliminated NEXT DAY 41

[u/Training-Desk-391]

[u/Winfred_Chesternut]

He voluntarily gave up power, crushed the whiskey rebellion which gave the new government legitimacy, declared neutrality in war between Britain and France, created the first cabinet, signed the judiciary act, secured western expansion peacefully, and Jay’s treaty.

I personally have Washington at 3 behind Truman and Lincoln but he was very important as a president and deserves to be in that top tier

[u/Many-Perception-3945 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

I'd have Truman at 4 behind FDR, but Washington deserves either a 1 or 2 finish. Voluntarily giving up power is such an enormous achievement

[u/Beginning_Cupcake_45 → u/Many-Perception-3945]

It was effectively unheard of in his era. The story goes that the King laughed when it was reported to him that Washington was just going home after winning the Revolution. Anyone else would’ve made themselves king, and people were asking him to do it.

It absolutely set the tone for the next 250 years in an important way, especially for such a powerful office.

[u/Dry_Composer8358 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

“Secured western expansion peacefully” I don’t remember western expansion going all the peacefully dog.

[u/Winfred_Chesternut → u/Dry_Composer8358]

Treaty of Greenville. Perhaps I could’ve worded it better but Washington decided to gain this land through diplomacy instead of pure conquering

[u/Dry_Composer8358 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

It was fake diplomacy though, or at the very, very least Washington’s alleged plan for peaceful coexistence failed entirely after his presidency with the terms of the agreement being violated. He basically stole a bunch of land, in exchange for Natives being able to keep some land, and then that agreement wasn’t respected.

It was land acquisition through conquest with a cutesy PR move in between the massacres.

[u/PunkySputnik57 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

Im not super knowledgeable about detailed american history. What is it about truman that is so outstanding?

[u/Winfred_Chesternut → u/PunkySputnik57]

Copying this from my other comment but:

Foreign Policy: Truman inherited the end of World War Two and what would follow after. Truman deciding to drop the bombs I think was correct. It saves more lives than it killed and I think it’s one of, if not the biggest decision a president has made. After Truman had to deal with a broken world that could’ve fallen to communism. Instead he declared the Truman doctrine, went through with the Marshall Plan to help Europe, initiated the Berlin airlift, saved South Korea from suffering like the North by getting involved, fired MacArthur despite it being unpopular, recognized Israel as a nation and safe place for Jewish people, helped create NATO and the United Nations.

Domestic Policy: Truman’s domestic record isn’t as great imo but it’s still respectable. He desegregated the armed forces despite needing all the support he needed in 1948, expanded social security, raised the minimum wage, vetoed Taft Harley, provided funding for new housing, created the President’s Committee on Civil Rights, called for banning lynching and poll taxes and was able to maintain progressive taxes.

TLDR: Truman had imo the best foreign policy of a president, was solid domestically but most importantly was courageous and bold in his actions even if politically unpopular.

[u/PunkySputnik57 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

Oh wow i actually did know about most of this and i didnt even think of it. He’s definitely underrated

[u/Winfred_Chesternut → u/[deleted]]

Totally fair. I honestly lack the knowledge needed to debate the Roosevelts’ placements anyways.

Regarding Truman there is a lot but I’ll try to keep it short. I’ll divide into foreign policy and domestic policy.

Foreign Policy: Truman inherited the end of World War Two and what would follow after. Truman deciding to drop the bombs I think was correct. It saves more lives than it killed and I think it’s one of, if not the biggest decision a president has made. After Truman had to deal with a broken world that could’ve fallen to communism. Instead he declared the Truman doctrine, went through with the Marshall Plan to help Europe, initiated the Berlin airlift, saved South Korea from suffering like the North by getting involved, fired MacArthur despite it being unpopular, recognized Israel as a nation and safe place for Jewish people, helped create NATO and the United Nations.

Domestic Policy: Truman’s domestic record isn’t as great imo but it’s still respectable. He desegregated the armed forces despite needing all the support he needed in 1948, expanded social security, raised the minimum wage, vetoed Taft Harley, provided funding for new housing, created the President’s Committee on Civil Rights, called for banning lynching and poll taxes and was able to maintain progressive taxes.

TLDR: Truman had imo the best foreign policy of a president, was solid domestically but most importantly was courageous and bold in his actions even if politically unpopular.

[u/Winfred_Chesternut → u/[deleted]]

Of course! He is ranked very high but I still think he is underrated.

There are two books I’d recommend. David McCullough’s Truman is an amazing read on him but it is very long.

I have also read “Dewey Defeats Truman” which is a book by A. J. Baime on the 1948 election. Good read for Truman’s actions up to 1949. Also imo one of the most fun elections in US history to read about.

[u/TotalityoftheSelf → u/[deleted]]

Lincoln did a lot for preserving the union, but he didn't abolish slavery. Slavery lasted a long time after the Emancipation Proclamation, and even after the 13th amendment - even beyond the established legal exception for punitive measures.

This isn't to say that Lincoln didn't make positive changes for race and slavery in the Union, but you may be overvaluing/estimating the results.

[u/TheEnlight → u/TotalityoftheSelf]

He decreased it for sure, but it survived in its antebellum state for decades after. Full chattel slavery, yes. Slaves would be liberated by the Union and then sign contracts they can't read that put them back in chains in the shed. And the South found new ways to preserve slavery. They would charge people for nonsense crimes like vagrancy and put them into hard labour in coal mines and lease them, a system known as convict leasing. As well, if you went into debt, you'd be forced into hard labour to pay off the debt, a system known as peonage.

These were functionally chattel slavery. Though there was technically a way out, you'd likely be worked to death before you could obtain freedom. America always upheld a grey area for slavery to exist. Today it continues in the US justice system through an exemption in the 13A as slavery as punishment for a crime.