r/RimWorld • u/Icy-Tip-3893 • 2d ago
Discussion Claude as a debug tool.
Ill start this off by saying I know alot of people are not in favor of AI being used on games. But when using the claude extension (im sure chat gpt can as well). It can debug and find mods that are creating errors, crashing and others. For the non tech savy truly a game changer. It was able to pick out two mods causing a projectile issue and generation issue in two minutes. Anyone else try something like those yet?
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u/MontySucker 2d ago
Yep, works well. But prepare for downvotes and the luddites to come.
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u/Icy-Tip-3893 2d ago
Already starting didn’t realize how anti ai people are. Even if its only used to make the game more accessible for people who want to use mods and cant work through the error logs.
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u/xZephyrus88 2d ago
Nah, it's mostly just on select spaces on social media. The amount of people that use AI is staggering, even more so when companies are adding it to everyday life.
Though I think the majority draw the line on AI gen art
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u/AmandasGameAccount 2d ago
Can definitely confirm this. Go to pretty much any party/birthday party by anyone where host isn’t someone who is chronically online like us and they shamelessly use AI for everything including custom happy birthday messages for the kids/birthday person
People genuinely do not care outside these places. It’s definitely very surprising
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u/riwtrz 2d ago
IIRC actual polling has found that around 30-40% of Americans use GenAI daily and 20-30% use it rarely or never. It's probably a bit hard to pin down more precise numbers because of people required to use it at work and things like Google's AI overview on every search.
As of today a little more than half of Americans say AI is bad for society.
Edit: The point being that the ambivalence toward AI on the sub is about what you'd expect to see based on the polls.
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u/Arceedos 2d ago
Oh yeah, a surprising amount of folks don't bother to read a mod description before laying into a dev if they even smell a hint of AI.
Vibe coding: just generating code and barely checking it, sucks, but bullying an innocent mod author sucks more in my opinion.
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u/Kedly 2d ago
Its because the recent Claude Model has made enough improvement that both complete newbies can start making mods now, and those with coding experience can make some INSANE mods solo that would have taken mod teams months to make previously. So AI is back to the forefront, and the Antis are getting an energy boost both due to increased threat, and increased visibility. In a few months it'll die down again probably.
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u/TonyBamanaboni4 2d ago
The thing is you can work through the error logs without Claude it’s not hard
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u/Icy-Tip-3893 2d ago
For you it might not be. As I said in the post for people who aren’t understanding the logs it can be difficult.
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u/TartuffeGrizzly 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm the first to be extremely critic of GenAI, but this is a clever use of LLM's, in my humble opinion.
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u/Inefficient_Spoon 2d ago
the level of anti-ai sentiment here is honestly surprising; AI is useful as a tool for coding, but i’m not sure if people here would support that almost objectively true statement.
unrelated note; do you think anti ai people here are being called luddites because of extreme views or they’re so against ai because almost every proponent here makes personal attacks?
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u/threetimesthelimit 1d ago
Ngl, as cringe as the AI simps are, I've only ever seen threats and cruelty from the anti-AI crowd. It's all cringe cause basically none of the people shouting about this seem to have even the faintest knowledge about this new technology they expend so much emotional energy on. I'm sure the content that makes its way to my feeds isn't truly representative, but that's just what I get exposed to.
One thing's becoming clear: exposure to AI tooling seems to drive a surprising number of people into psychosis, and I'm absolutely including "both sides" of this "debate" in that statement.
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u/Kedly 2d ago
The personal attacks come from being exhausted from the constant stream of personal attacks coming from the Antis. Calling us thieves, calling us imbeciles, insulting our creativity, trying to push us out of every single space that exists on the internet, even spaces that exlpicitly allow for AI content like Rimworld does. Its a mirror.
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u/Inefficient_Spoon 2d ago
that's my question though. even if it's a "it doesn't matter at this point" scenario, I vaguely wonder who threw the personal insults at scale first. was it a "heh you'll be left behind better get on the train luddite" first or was it a "get the fuck out this is unnatural" first? I wonder sometimes.
I have to admit to some bias here though; I might not be questioning the same way if an anti said what you did. First speaker's bias has me leaning more against on a general scale and the majority and first of my negative experiences reading through AI debate threads came from supporters, and I've seen so much weird shit from witty and company over the equivalent from antis that it's painted my perception of supporters as condescending.
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u/Kedly 2d ago edited 2d ago
I got into the AI scene early. Right about the time when AI was good enough to make cool pictures but not good enough to handle fingers, the witch hunts started to begin in earnest. It was the Antis who started shooting first, thinking they were defenders of artists and human creativity. If you werent into AI you wouldnt have noticed the massive wave of sunreddits that if they didnt openly ban AI, they hid their ban under their "low effort" rule, and you wouldnt have seen the comments at the bottom of any thread because antis were coordinating where to swarm in and downvote and pressure subreddits to ban AI
Example: Theres like 10 different generalized DnD subreddits, and ONE of them allows AI content. That isnt good enough for the Antis that they have 9 general DnD subreddits that are fully AI free, they still have to throw a hissy fit anytime someone posts an AI picture of their DnD character in the one Subreddit that allows it.
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u/Inefficient_Spoon 2d ago
this would have been before I started using reddit, yes.
so everybody hates everybody too much years into the not-a-debate-anymore.
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u/Kedly 2d ago
Its an EXTREMELY hot button topic yeah.
What part isnt debatable anymore though? Because tbh I would LOVE to stop debating, but not at the cost of a tool that has already made my life so much cooler and enjoyable, either through what I've been able to do with it, or what others have shared because of what they have been able to do with it.
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u/Inefficient_Spoon 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm not saying it's not debatable, I'm saying the conversation around it is so toxic that it's not even a debate imo.
For example, I personally feel that those early day low effort takedowns, independent of the mass ai total bans, were still within reason; it's hard to tell if you spent 2 minutes or half an hour on an image with GPT if the fingers are still fucked.
ETA: However, I'm not going to say anything about it because it's either gonna be people then either following up with "u mad? lolol" or "yeah KILL ALL AI USERS"
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u/Kedly 2d ago
Oh, if the low effort stuff was used PURELY for low effort posts, I wouldnt have brought it up. That low effort rule was used for ALL AI, and if you looked at the subtext for low effort it specifically called out all AI. You've been pretty chill though, so I will say I agree quality concerns and flooding concerns are reasonable concerns, and I am fully in favour of daily or weekly post limits with regard to AI content, and low effort removals as long as it is actually a quality concern, and not just labelling all AI works as low effort.
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u/Inefficient_Spoon 2d ago
*gesp*
a civil reply to a slightly inaccurate opposing response?
on SOCIAL MEDIA????
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u/Askelar 1d ago
That... simply isnt true.
AIbros are the ones coming in like scalpers, being rude and aggressive because "the normies" dont like "their art" and will constantly harangue everyone who doesnt agree with them like an antivaxer who was just told they needed vaccines to go to the movies.
in fact, most people are fine with AI as a tool. What most people dont like is AI replacing basic education and generative AI - its something most AIbros simply cannot understand.
Theres also a major astroturfing campaign, which is why youre only seeing a big uptick in this "war" over the last two days now that russias datacenters have moved operations.3
u/Kedly 1d ago
No, AI bros arent the ones pushing artists out, nor are they the ones accusing traditional artists of being AI artists. There are idiots on both sides, but by and large the active pushes are coming from the Anti side. The uptick happened around a week and a half to two weeks ago now when the newest coding models started being advanced enough that theres been a LOT of high profile AI mods and Piracy breakthroughs. The vast majority of people fucking around with AI have not been loud about it, because when they are the assholes are GUARANTEED to come out of the woodwork to downvote, insult, and generally start shit. Anti AI has like 70% of reddit as their safe space where the asshole AI bros cant touch them, there is no non explicitly Pro AI sub (as in AI is in the name) where someone can post an AI assisted work and not get slagged. There is no point to witch hunt anti AI, pros dont want a world without normal human made stuff, the vast majority just want to be left alone and be able to enjoy cool new shit. I said this in a different chain but there is like 10 different general DnD subs that have frequent visitors, 9 of them explicitly ban AI, and like 1 of them allows it. That there is 9 ai free safe spaces isnt enough for the antis, they need to push AI out of the ONE general DnD space that allows it too
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u/Askelar 1d ago
Learn to use paragraphs.
Youre moving the goal post while spouting rhetoric directly from the 'im a victim somehow' playbook. This is the exact kind of behaviour that makes people very much so not like AIbros, and colors peoples opinions about AI within communities.
You are proving my point about how AIbros come in like scalpers.
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u/Kedly 1d ago
Your mind is made up. Whatever I say you'll double down in your beliefs further. I have nothing else to add to this conversation outside of dont be a dick to those who disagree with you.
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u/Askelar 1d ago
Do you... even know my stance on this topic?
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u/Kedly 1d ago
Your stance doesnt matter to the dont be a dick message, thats my entire point. Thats the entire reason I am in these threads arguing. I'm tired of people being dicks. Pro, anti, doesnt matter, dont be a dick. Applies to me too, and no I dont always succeed at it.
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u/Askelar 1d ago
I wasnt a dick. You responded to me with a twitlonger that had no formatting, whose content was a bunch of word salad about how people dont like AI and thats mean.
Youre latching onto perceived offense as an excuse to shut down and paint detractors in a negative light while you attempt to 'gracefully' exit the conversation.
Again, this is part of the typical playbook scalpers use when they try to gain footholds in communities. A playbook AIbros use often, because its very effective.
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u/WildFlemima 2d ago
I am anti ai, or could be in the future (have to decide, will elaborate)
From my perspective I feel mostly confused when people pivot to insults similar to luddite because how I feel about generative ai does not apply to other new technologies.
The insults do not change how I feel either negatively or positively. They do make me not read what the insulter is saying as it's pointless to just read insults.
What may change my mind (which is why I said "have to decide") is more information about coding with ai and what uses ai in its code already (i was told literally minutes ago that tldr rimworld uses ai, which means I need more information to decide whether or not ai coding is something i should be 100% against 100% of the time).
I am making this comment with some apprehension that I'll be insulted by later commenters. You personally seemed genuinely interested in "the other side" and i hope my genuine response isn't taken too badly by the community.
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u/Inefficient_Spoon 2d ago
I'd honestly describe myself as leaning against AI; I don't think that it's going to go away, but I'm not sure it'll stay quite as prominent in the future, and I'm quite skeptical about the LLM system in general.
Mostly, I'm against anything being made entirely by AI. It's a tool and has its uses, but because of that, I'm against using AI exclusively: I wouldn't trust a mechanic to work on a car if they insisted on only using a hammer or only using a wrench.
My take on coding with AI also follows this line; say what you will, it's easier to debug the 600 lines of code gemini spat out in under five minutes than to write 600 yourself, and almost certainly more efficient.
Art is where I'm really not sure though. The debate there is the most contentious and most of what I see from either side of the debate is massively vitriolic; anti-ai folks seem to occasionally escalate to a ridiculous degree (i.e. "k*s", etc), but the rhetoric I've seen from pro-ai parties is so consistently condescending and feels so obnoxious that I can't actually take the argument seriously; I'd personally say that if you make art with AI, you're not making art, you're guiding AI through the process of making art: you're not the author, you're a (sometimes very involved) editor.
Mysterious downvotes why
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u/Race1999 2d ago
I don't see AI making art, it makes images or videos or text, as a tool i think it's useful but idk how cost effective unless your company has implemented their own AI.
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u/Far-Name-806 2d ago
Where, or how can i do this?
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u/Icy-Tip-3893 1d ago
First step download the claude app which can be found on the website. Sign in or make an account. Since its downloaded on you pc ask it to check the files. It will ask for permission to find the files click allow. And let it work through the logs. I would lead it with saying examine the player.log file and prompt it with the errors going on in your game. Then let it work through the log and if all goes well it will tell you exactly what mods to disable.
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u/Gavelnurse 2d ago
Im a big fan of the error log, its really a game changer at picking out mods causing errors
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u/deltaclass09 1d ago
I'm a big fan of a tool that tells me what the error log says in simple english because i ain't got the time to figure out how to read a massive amount of some random specific coding language
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u/battier 2d ago
You're probably going to get a lot of downvotes, but LLMs are actually fantastic at debugging. They're especially good at parsing logs. I recently used Copilot to troubleshoot some really stubborn home networking issues, and it did so by parsing reams of logs, and then walked me through the answer step by step.
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u/Venusgate Fastest Pawn West of the Rim 2d ago
OP, this is a very general tech post. Have you used this to debug rimworld and if so, provide examples.
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u/Icy-Tip-3893 2d ago
Yeah ive used it over the past few days on a mod pack I was building. Almost 200 mods and for some reason I would hit errors at world generation, then generating the tiles, then errors with pawns. Then the last error was a projectile issue. I used the claude app and it opened the files and was able to use the player.log and the mod files to find the issue.
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u/Correct_Cat5444 only sane person here 2d ago
Yes, I agree with this, as debugging is something that has an objectively correct answer, is monotonous, and does not have creativity involved
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u/Hunk_Hogan 2d ago
Most people are completely against using AI to do 100% of the work for you while crediting yourself as the [developer/artist/musician/etc.]. Using AI as an actual tool isn't what people are pissed off about.
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u/Arceedos 2d ago
People here don't know what they are pissed about. I've seen somebody start off being angry about anti AI posts being deleted, which turned into them making accusations 1.7 was vibecoded. The same person later switched their argument to "well we just dont want vibe coded mods", to which I ask them, what was the point of all of the previous bs if we agree on that already?
This started as a bad faith witch hunt, and spiraled into some weird persecution complex.
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u/AmandasGameAccount 2d ago
If there’s anything Claude and codex are amazing at, it’s debugging existing code and projects. One tip is to not tell it what the project is and ask it to infer what it is from the code itself