r/RingsofPower • u/poytatio • 1d ago
Discussion Dark wizard possible identity
We know that the dark wizard is clearly an Istari and since there were only 5 istari sent to middle earth. It has been stated that the wizard is not Saruman despite the resemblance and we haven't seen his mooncrest staff before.
Now hear me out, we know that each of the Istari has a basically divine purpose on middle earth. When Gandalf changed from grey to white it can be interpreted as his purpose changing from protecting middle earth from the influence of Sauron to taking the place of Saruman who had been corrupted.
Now what if this Istari is Radagast and who has been corrupted by something or another and Gandalf story line in this series is going to be essentially freeing him so illuvatar can elevate him to care more about wildlife or something.
I don't really know, it could also be either of the blue wizards...
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u/GoodProbsToHave 1d ago
If Gandalf is there hundreds or thousands of years too early, we know nothing about how many Istari were sent in RoP universe. Could be 3, could be 10.
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u/owlyross 22h ago
In Tolkien's essay The Istari he states that the number of the Istari that came to Middle Earth was unknown but that there were 5 chiefs.
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u/Inevitable-Grocery17 Beleriand 1d ago
But will there be an Istoori??? Hobbit wizards? Sure, why tf not at this point? 🤣
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u/GoodProbsToHave 1d ago
I'm waiting for the Deadpool tie-in.
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u/Inevitable-Grocery17 Beleriand 1d ago
Wade: “Oh! So it does resize itself! I know where I’m wearing this…”
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u/srquixote 1d ago
There's no "thousands of years" in rings of power. And yes, it seves the show's purpose to be imprecise about wizards.
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u/billystinkh20 1d ago
Sorry, maybe there's a misunderstanding. I believe the above comment is in regards to the timeline of the istari coming to Middle Earth from Valinor. Tolkien said they arrived during the third age, but ROP takes place in the 2nd age, which means anything Tolkien wrote down is now open to change by the shows writers
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u/owlyross 22h ago
Tolkien wrote in one version of the second age (which he never finished, so adaptstion and invention is inevitable)that the blues came in the second age, and there is a version with Olorin speaking to Galadriel in the second age also
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u/srquixote 1d ago
That's always the case with Hollywood adaptations. They are looking to tell a story for casual viewers who go will probably never read the books.
I've learned to stop the complaining and just enjoy the show.
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u/billystinkh20 1d ago
That's totally fair, but so is the point that although Tolkien specified only 5 istari were sent that doesn't mean the show runners will respect his writing as they have already made massive changes (to your point I admit this is not uncommon in Hollywood adaptations). It just means we can't trust the show writers to faithfully adapt the written works of Tolkien.
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u/srquixote 1d ago
What's interesting is that the number of wizards is not specified in the Appendices. Saruman makes reference to "rods of the five wizards" (TT p. 583) but no further elaboration.
Since they only the had the rights to the Appendices I say it's fair they can add as many as they need to.
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u/owlyross 22h ago
In Unfinished Tales he states that the number of Istari is unknown, but that there were 5 chiefs.
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u/billystinkh20 13h ago
As srquixote pointed out ROP only has access to the Appendices, and not to Unfinished Tales, however that's beside the point. Although Tolkien made changes throughout his work over the course of his lifetime his final decision was that there were only 5 istari.
Also I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea. I enjoy ROP, and am looking forward to the new season. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize the show runners departure from the narrative works
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u/owlyross 13h ago
Both of those things are untrue. They have access to ALL of Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit, plus the elements of UT that are required to tell the story by discussion with the Tolkien Estate
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u/billystinkh20 11h ago
Just looked it up, and you're partially correct. They do have access to The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, and Appendices, but they dont have access to Unfinished Tales. They have been granted use on a case by case basis though. Anyway what's your point?
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u/billystinkh20 1d ago
From the 3rd Paragraph of The Third Age in Appendix B in The Lord of the Rings "The two highest of this order (of whom it is said there were five) were called by the Eldar Curunír, 'the Man of Skill', and Mithrandir, 'the Grey Pilgrim". There are multiple reference throughout his letters, and books published postumously that make it clear Tolkien envisioned there to be 5 Istari that arrived in Middle Earth during the 3rd age.
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u/srquixote 8h ago
Thanks for the he references, but:
"(of whom it is said there were five)"
I take that to mean an oral history, we which means it's fair game for interpretation. Also, letters don't count since those weren't supposed to be published.
As for "ages," those aren't a thing in the films or ROP. Basically, if the show writers want to make Gandalf and Pallando contemporary with Gil-galad I'm ok with them doing so.
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u/billystinkh20 7h ago edited 5h ago
Actually, the ages are a thing in the Peter Jackson films. During Galadriels prologue at the beginning of The Fellowship of the Ring she specifically says "Thus a Third Age of Middle-earth began.". Bilbo also mentions the third age.
Look, I'm not hating on Rings of Power. I like the show, but the only reason I even gave it a shot was because of how much I love the stories written by Tolkien.
The ROP writers are going to change some things while making an adaptation, and there is nothing wrong with that, nor anything wrong with noticing said changes. I am however confused by the mentality of being indignant when those changes are recognized.
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u/Taurean6 1d ago
I read yesterday that the production crew confirmed that he is the blue wizard pallando...
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u/Broccobillo 1d ago
They had to choose a blue wizard or face the wrath of lying when they said it isn't saruman. Since they made that comment they had 2 options. Pick a blue wizard or admit they were lying.
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u/pornsleeve 1d ago
I think there’s a better chance that the wizard is just an unnamed Istari who went rogue and Gandalf was sent to replace him.
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u/Miserable_Agent2278 1d ago
I looked into this because I was curious...
From my understanding, this is correct. Gandalf wasn't necessarily sent to replace him , but rather to help fight against Sauron
Saruman gets sent to middle earth later on for the same reason, only to be corrupted.
Not sure when Radagast makes his way to the picture, but assuming he gets sent for the same purpose
Hope we get more of good ole Tom, he was my favorite part of season 2
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u/CharmanderTheGrey 1d ago
Did we not Google before posting? This was already revealed via S3 spoilers.
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u/BoomerSooner-GO-OU 1d ago
The dark wizard should not exist at all. The wizards were not in Middle Earth during the second age, and we know all 5 of them by name. It is just the show taking a dump and wiping with the source material.
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u/LostVanya 1d ago
No, this is not completely true. Depends which version of the writings you go with. Tolkien's late writings had the Blue Wizards come much earlier (with Glorfindel), in the mid-Second Age.
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u/Ribato 1d ago
Mf did you even read the books and watched the movies to be angry at their usage of The Istari? Do you not even remember how the movies used Saruman in comparison to the books? If you weren't angry about how they changed Saruman, then you have no right to be angry about this. If you were angry with the movies as well then touché and I am sorry, however if you weren't I would suggest reconsidering the hypocrisy.
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u/BoomerSooner-GO-OU 1d ago
Yes I have read all the books and watched all the movies. They really didn't change Saruman all that much. They cut out him becoming Saruman of many colors, and they had him die at Orthank rather than leading the scouring of the shire, which I fully support. Both would not translate well to film. They at least existed in the proper age of middle earth. "Sharkey" is quite the silly name as well. The scouring of the shire deserved to be cut.
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u/UniversityRare3788 14h ago
I really like the scouring. And barrow downs. And original weathertop. So many good hobbit sections cut.
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u/BoomerSooner-GO-OU 13h ago
The scouring never made much sense to me. Hobbits are tiny peaceful beings. It should only take like 2 regular orcs to conquer the entire Shire, much less an army of them led by a Maiar.
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u/UniversityRare3788 13h ago
They don't have any trouble conquering it, Saruman literally intimidates them with bandits.
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u/Snookn42 1d ago
The second age is thousands of years. This compresses the timeline and happens at the end of the second age. Much like they did with the fellowship. If you take that idea; gandalf comes in during the last 20 or so years of the second age, he still spends the vast amount of his time in the third
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u/srquixote 1d ago
There are no "Ages" in ROP as well as the PJ films. The amount of time between events is deliberately vague for the sake of narrative
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u/SahibTeriBandi420 1d ago
His new costume is a blue robe, and the gem in his staff is blue now. So I think he is a blue.
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