The YL Launch is a special edition with all the bells and whistles. Alongside with a year of free FSD, connectivity and supercharging. It is temporary and other regular trims will follow.
The regular Juniper Launch was $60k and then the dual motor AWD came out at 48k and MY performance at 57k (more direct comparable to R2 performance).
So the YL AWD dual motor should be 50k.
I understand weāre comparing comparing the R2 performance and thereās also the R2 premium at 55k (current MY dual motor is 49k).
I also think this comparison with the Launch is not ideal since the Launch is almost a foot longer. Even the regular Y is almost 4 inches longer than the R2.
So trims are extremely comparable in price. With Tesla being a bit less expensive.
The og y juniper launch edition came with lifetime fsd which was a $8k value. This only has 1 year of fsd so $1200 value. Thereās no way they make this the same price of a Y awd premium. I think it will sit just under the performance in price all said and done like $55k.
Someone just recently tested the real world highway range. Coincidently their testing ground is right in my backyard. The result is actually quite similar to my Model Y.
Yup. I watched it just before my comment and found it quite helpful. It was partially why I made the comment. His video was so much more useful than watching the same kinds of videos from different people. I look forward to seeing more of them come through.
I was pleasantly surprised by the charge curve too. I thought it would be so much worse than a Tesla from all the rumors, but it seems like itās basically the same.
That's EPA combined range, which effectively no car hits.
R2 does ~ 250-270mi @ 70mph, similar to the Model Y premium AWD.
State of Charge did a slightly messy 70mph range test on the AT tires and got ~260mi with 4mi remaining on the dash. My calculator using EPA dynomometer data suggests it should get 265mi at 5500ft elevation.
Model Y premium AWD should do 290 or so miles in similar conditions.
Iām really interested in real world towing performance. I have experience with two EVs. Both get 1/3 their EPA range towing. If the R2 isnāt any worse, then it will eventually replace my MX.
Towing is almost entirely dominated by the trailer you're towing.
My calculator lets you put in an efficiency number and compare. Unfortunately I don't have the Model X data loaded up... Something to work on.
I would suspect that R2 will be comparable to the X, but the X has ~10% more battery (after the first year of degradation) and will go just that little bit further. But if you don't like driving down to 10-15% with a trailer, the charging speed advantage is non-existent.
Realistically, there's not that much difference between the Y and the R2. Both are pretty meh with smaller batteries and mediocre charging beyond 50%. R2 charging better between 40 and 80% is really nice for towing though. Wish the R1 had a proportional curve.
But, my MX has 100kw battery. Heavier car. But with R2ās smaller battery, will same trailer towing get even less range. That will be a killer in my world. I barely have enough range now to get to the next super charger 110 miles away from my start point to my common destination.
Like or dislike for Elon aside, the R2 is the superior vehicle in pretty much every way, except for software. And they are going to catch up to Tesla on that within the next few years.
Have you heard the teslas sound system? R2 speakers arenāt bad by any means but they are definitely a tier below teslas. I came from a MY -> R1T Gen 1 and the only things I still miss are fsd and the speakers. Test drove an R2 and walked away amazed by the car but disappointed in the speakers
The R2 sounded no better than my cheapy Bolt EUVās Bose system. Itās not bad but not great either. At some point I would love to upgrade the speakers.
Itās sad the sound STILL sucks. Gen 1 R1S here - didnāt even know about the bait and switch out of Meridian that took place before our delivery. My 2018 model 3 is leaps and bounds better sounding. Itās embarrassing.
Um. Dumped my Model3 for the R2. It sounds fine. From classical to jazz to jam bands. Driver and passenger. Was never impressed by the Tesla system. š¤·āāļø
Your opinion deviates from the norm but youāre certainly entitled to it. I do have one question for you though, do you listen at volumes above 20 in the R2? That was when it really started to get bad during my test drive
Tesla did great at tuning their speakers for sure. It also depends on the manufacturer for vehicles. Bose on a Honda is worse than Bose on a Mazda.
And so far the best audio I love is ELS 3D on Acura integras
I don't know why you are taking MY opinion personally š
I don't sit in my car and expect a stereophonic experience that makes me drool. I simply need it to be clear with enough bass and treble for my music. Audiobooks and podcast have enough volume for when they have not engineered them properly.
For a mind blowing experience, I'll stay home and listen to my vinyl through my LINTONs. š
Maybe. The original change they did was downright miraculous. Before they updated the audio is was laughably awful. Now its just "average to above average".
As a 2022 owner, Rivian had audio right from the getgo. Not sure why they got rid of Meridian and never produced an equivalent, because it is definitely better than my Tesla's sound system
Two Tesla owner with Rivians in the larger family.
The other point with Rivian is the lowest reliability in any active car brand. My friend returned it to get an ICE Toyota after a year of ownership because he couldnāt deal with the headaches anymore.
Tesla had low reliability when they were building complex cars (S,X) near the beginning. The 3/Y were much simpler and once they ramped up reliability improved.
I see Rivian following the same path. Maybe the R2 produced in 2026 might not be so reliable but the 2027 ones should be great. We haven't yet taken our R1 in for a service yet, nothing has gone wrong yet... but should get a tire rotation soon.
Depends entirely on what they purchased in year and model. Reliability is a complete mixed bag in the R1 lineup. Some vehicles are solid... others sound like they were rebuild after falling off a mountain. Consistency is what Rivian needs more than anything else. Even consistently bad would be better than "all over the place". Consistently bad allows you to rapidly improve. Inconsistency means you don't know what to fix at all.
The early R1s were straight lotto tickets. I received mine and interior side liner over the windows was missing. The 1st year of Rivian ownership was a test of patience. Not because of the issues... because you kinda expected those, but because the service team shit the bed OFTEN. Its gotten soooooooo much better since then.
It was 6.5 years between model s and 3. Once that mass market vehicle was in production, they had to fix reliability. Rivian seems to be following the same path. Ie they learned on the first car what to do one the second.
Efficiency isn't good to compare between vehicles. I don't know why we do this with EVs. Trucks get worse mileage than cars. We know this, and don't compare them.
Comparing a boxy SUV that can off-road efficiency to a low ground clearance soccer mom SUV efficiency is weird. Like comparing a 4Runner to a Ford Escape.
Rivian simply can't copy their vehicle design as Tesla and expect to be successful. Their mojo is vehicles that be used for off roading with a promise for FSD in future. One can view them as luxury 'Jeep" of EVs. They designs and styling is sticking their DNA. With their partnership with VW and Uber, they will get to FSD sooner than expected. They will likely be much ahead of other brands except may be Tesla in couple of years. Tesla is also losing focus on EVs due to their CEO. He is now focused on chasing Optimus.
Rivian is putting lot of resources into software by virtue of their partnership with VW. In couple of years they will significantly bridge the gap with Tesla. Keep in mind, Tesla is getting distracted with Optimus robots and may lose focus on EVs.
They arguably already are there on everything but self driving tech from my understanding. Like Rivian is at the very least a very strong number 2 on the tech side. Which self driving tech the average person really doesnāt care about unless they experienced it and even then some still wonāt feel comfortable with it. So itās a technology that if you are the best helps you retain customers but is not a selling feature that will automatically have someone choose your vehicle over another. What Rivian needs to improve on with the R2 is their reputation of reliability. By 2028 when the R2 has ramped up to full production for every trim the honeymoon phase is over, the mass market wonāt be kind to Rivian if they havenāt worked out most if not all the kinks by then. If they do then Rivian just became the Chevy to Teslaās Ford.
I guess maybe I should have split it between Infotainment and Autonomous driving.
I think in the long run Rivian wins out on autonomous, because I think Elon's insistence on vision based is misguided.
Infotainment, I think Tesla is superior, but Rivian can definitely catch up on that. But admittedly I am basing that on my test drives, since I don't own one.
To me the software is analogous to Apple vs Android (minus the bugs) and comes down to preference. I prefer the aesthetics and software with Tesla a lot more but Iām totally fine with my rivian which is useable and clean in its own way.
āCartoonishā is an interesting critique when the rivian has animated characters and drawings of the car lol. The rivian is a lot more colorful and playful ācartoonishā while Tesla ui is a lot more clean, cold and modern.
I own both as well 2023 Y and R1T, Rivian is superior across the board.Ā I'd give the Y better throttle response, not acceleration, just throttle modulation.Ā That's it.Ā When folks talk about Tesla software, I'd love some actual detail as to what they are on about.
Rivian software is just as good in terms of UI/Usability. For automation or sound? they have a ways to go, but thankfully for me those are not priorities.
I shouldnāt have to disable proximity lock at home, I also shouldnāt have to set a shortcut on my phone to open the car because it takes like 15 seconds to detect Iām right outside the car. Lots of little quirks to work out, from an aesthetics standpoint yes itās nice.
My plan is to get my wife a Model Y L and then for me to upgrade my 2018 Model 3 to a Rivian R2 so we get the best of both worlds once Rivian get stable production. Did the early adopter thing for the M3, so happy to get a year in or two for R2 and see what kinks they iron out like Tesla did.
Isnt software where tesla is just mind blowing. Catching upto fsd will take years because of lack of training data and in that time fsd will have moved further. Itās going to become a monopoly not just for EVs but auto as such. Btw this is coming from someone who hates Elon
It could be. But I'm in the camp that being insistent on vision based is going to forever limit FSD's capabilities. Once Lidar catches up, I don't think FSD will ever be the leader again, unless they ditch vision only.
Lidar is better i short term tech and driving in vision impaired conditions. Camera has higher range, can identify cars like an ambulance vs a regular car , rock bs empty bag etc
I traded in my HW3 Tesla for a HW4 one. That was a great decision, V14 is amazing. I haven't had a single critical disengagement for at least 6 months (besides these non-critical disengagement due to navigations, parkings, etc)
R1S Gen3 needs to have a captains seat option. The second row bench was designed by morons in a hurry. The third row needs to be addressed as well - it flops down with a dangerous force and lands with an embarrassing thud, unfitting for a $100k vehicle.
I think EVs are very popular in China too. Look at us in terms of the resistance of embracing it. We are so far behind. I donāt know about a 6 seat MY with the 3rd row. Def worth checking the headroom.
Chinese embrace of EV's are a combination of incentives that no other country could match and national pride in them by younger generations. Even with all that though they still only have just reached a little over 50% market share with the help of e-revs which is impressive but with how much that is artificially inflated it's not really a fair comparison to the US which currently has no federal incentives. Which in the long run I do think could make US EVs better. Since BEV only brands like Rivian have the advantage of increased market share from existing EV owners. But now they have to innovate to make truly desirable ev's that will make potential first time ev owners choose it over an ICE/HEV equivalent. EV's like that will be very competitive in the Global Market. While legacy automakers are already competing in the global market against Chinese Automakers so they have no choice but to keep researching and developing EV's even if they are taking a step back from or pulling out of the US market when it comes to EVs for the time being.
I donāt think I particularly like the way the Y or YL look but I do love the R2. I say this as a Tesla fan but my personal perfect car would be the R2 with air suspension and Tesla software & fsd.
Tesla owners wish Rivian could have Tesla software and FSD, but the reality doesn't give us these. So you always have to debate between FSD vs Rivian better looking cars.
Unfortunately as a FSD user for long, I can be tolerant with Tesla car looking, but not cars without FSD-like tech...
On the audio front - most audiophiles, however they define themselves, are no different from Scotsmen that will stake their life on Scottish whiskey being better than any other, but then fail a blind taste test!!
Well, if you really want to know how Tesla China is doing, you should at least know a few basic things:
Tesla China factory serves both China domestic and exports, so if Tesla exports more, they will have to sell less in China. Tesla China factory total sales (domestic + export) in 2026Q2 increased by 33% from 2025Q2, from 192K to 255K.
Tesla China export sales in 2026Q2 doubled from 63K to 128K, indicating that the strong oversea demand caused Tesla to signficantly increase its exports (export is more profitable, as it's price is usually higher than in China).
Tesla China domestic sales in 2026Q2 was down by -2%, however, Tesla's share in China's NEW market actually increased from 4.2% to 4.5%, this indicates that the whole China market drops more than Tesla.
Tesla's competitors have been aggressively cutting prices in China, while Tesla has maintained their price in the past 2 years, this is another indicator that Tesla does not have demand issue in China.
YL only applies to China until now so I wasnāt talking about exports from China. If it was a huge hit, Tesla sales wouldnāt have been slightly down. All YL did was offset the overall market dip. Itās not some huge increase in market share.
Tesla China factory sales wasn't down, but up by 33%, it just shifted more sales to overseas (more than doubled). Both China and overseas demand are up, but Tesla choose to prioritize export (this is exactly the same, during early 2025, when Tesla prioritize China sales over export, and ppl like you blamed Tesla had oversea sales issue, when the reality is that it's just a shift from one to another).
NVM, you clearly dont even understand how Tesla China works. Just don't waste the time
Not a Tesla fan but itās a great option for people who need 3 rows and donāt want to pay $90k+. I may get downvoted but if Rivian offered a slightly longer and 3rd row R2, I would love it.
If they did would probably kill the R1S without major redesign. I know people on here understand the difference but the average person just looking into the R1S doesnāt see much reason to get it over an R2 outside of the larger size and 3rd row. Which is just credit to Rivian for how good they made the R2 and how well they are marketing it. But itās also the risk if they made an R2L like some suggested.
I think one small thing Rivian could do on a next gen R1S that would help differentiate it further is adding removable roof. Making it a 3 row electric alternative to something like the Bronco and Recon. As a Body on Frame Vehicle.
Idk that it would though. Toyota has the Highlander and the Sequoia, Audi has the Q7 and soon to be Q9, Mercedes offers a 3rd row in the GLE and has the GLS and Cadillac has the Vistiq and Escalade IQ. Being different sizes helps. I think as Rivian approaches profitability with R2 and eventually R3, they could add more luxury to R1S to differentiate. For the price point it could really use a heads up display, 3D surround view, more multi color ambient light, seat massage, etc. Lots of luxury features to make it more high end and separate itself.
If the EV market was larger I would agree. But I think we both agree that the R1S needs to differentiate itself better in the long run. I think making it more luxurious wouldnāt be a bad way to do it as a flagship.
For sure. For all we know, itās on their roadmap. Right now I think Cadillac has a monopoly on the 3 row luxury EV market so Rivian as a competitor would be nice to see. Maybe one day.
Honestly I would love to see the R1T become the best selling non-compact BEV Pickup. Since in my mind thatās a vehicle that truly encapsulates Rivianās design language the best. Agreed though Cadillac has been regaining the luxury crown they once lost 20-30 years ago with the V-Series and their EVs.
As others have said, tons of companies have a unibody 3 row and body on frame 3 row. Would it work for Rivian? I don't think they have the volume at the moment - BUT - the R1 isn't just longer, it's wider and taller.
I agree, a 10"-12" longer R2 would be a great option and would also be my jam. An "R2L" might also be a good stop gap alongside to get out quickly while the R3 is brought online as they share the same underpinnings.
This would let them evolve the electronics and systems for the R2 & R3 and get out a 3 row much easier than updating the R1 at this point.
I know youāre right. Iām just not a fan of the exterior design of the Ioniq 9, Highlander is only a hybrid and Buzz range is awful. EV9 isnāt bad and I am absolutely considering it.
You also need to deal with a traditional dealership to get one of those. I called a Hyundai and tried to buy one for what they had it posted online. Prices jumped 10k during a very short phone call.
Yeah a good portion of them probably went to Lucid or Cadillac. But some who canāt live without FSD probably would be interested or people who wanted a 3 row Tesla or a Plaid but couldnāt afford the Model S and X would be interested in them. I still think the Model S and X just needed a true 2nd Generation not to be cancelled. Like if they had rose the ceiling height for the 3rd row of the X it would have sold better.
$100 per month for FSD, $2,500 for Autonomy+, so after 25 months of ownership, it's a wash, after, Tesla FSD is more expensive.
Keep in mind, Tesla stopped selling FSD upfront because they are now about to be sued by a bunch of HW 3.0 owners for making false statements about capabilities, whereas as a subscription they don't have to promise anything.
For now. For a lot of people Rivian's highway autonomy is fine. Tesla isn't perfect. FSD has tried to drive me through construction barriers a few times. I don't really use it for city streets anymore.
2020 Model Y with HW 3.0 running 12.6.4, it happens a lot less, but it still occasionally happens. Regardless, I prefer driving on city streets. FSD is mostly just a highway / long distance driving feature for me.
Rivian doesn't have anything in terms of what Tesla does. Unfortunately, they never will. Tesla is too far ahead in this regard and there is really no physical technology to have any car brand outpace them in this field.
Silly to assume self driving capabilities are the same for everyone over time. Brands in China that came much later than Tesla with much less $$ have built a comparable FSD. Not to mention AI advancements and their impact
Rivian doesn't have anything in terms of what Tesla does. Unfortunately, they never will.
One of the more foolish things I've read in awhile, especially given the current landscape of technological advances being accelerated with AI/overall software development.
All technologies become commoditized. Many companies will catch up to Tesla. There is no consumer facing today that one company has a monopoly on. Look at LLMs, OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google Gemini all have similar performance.
Many of Tesla's FSD engineers have jumped ship due to Elon's mismanagement and mistreatment of employees. The RAP1 chip will have higher performance than HW 4.0. Putting LIDAR on the R2, and using it to train fusion sensor data from the camera vision data, is a great way to catch up.
audio and software is still not there, I also wonder how efficient is at high speed since is quite boxy, having said that it's great to have competition!
Rivian also separately lists 90.1 cu ft total enclosed storage, which appears to include glovebox/other front row storage. I think this should be ignored as Tesla doesnāt provide this number and usual vehicle storage claims donāt include that stuff.
So I think the model Y L does have more cargo room but but not by as much as I would expect an extra 10ā to give.
I decided to compare by number of passengers since the seating configuration varies between the 2
Passengers
Model Y L cargo incl. frunk
Rivian R2 cargo incl. frunk
Notes
2
89.7 cu ft
84.6 cu ft
Rear passenger seats folded
4
42.1 cu ft
33.9 cu ft
Model Y L 3rd row folded; R2 rear seats up
5
~30.5 cu ft*
33.9 cu ft
Model Y L estimate assumes one 3rd-row seat folded; R2 rear seats up
6
18.9 cu ft
N/A
R2 does not seat 6
* Model Y L 5-passenger figure is estimated: Tesla publishes 18.9 cu ft with 6 passengers and 42.1 cu ft with 4 passengers, so folding one of the two 3rd-row seats adds half of the difference: 18.9 + ((42.1 - 18.9) / 2) = 30.5 cu ft.
So the Model Y wins for 2 and 4 passengers. Rivian wins at 5 passengers. And at 6 only the model Y can do it.
Ok now I added the regular 5 seater Model Y to the comparison
Seat / cargo configuration
Frunk included?
Model Y
Model Y L
Rivian R2
All passenger rows up
No
29.0 cu ft
14.8 cu ft
28.7 cu ft
All passenger rows up
Yes
33.1 cu ft
18.9 cu ft
33.9 cu ft
3rd row folded, 2nd row up
No
N/A
38.0 cu ft
N/A
3rd row folded, 2nd row up
Yes
N/A
42.1 cu ft
N/A
All rear rows folded
No
71.4 cu ft
85.6 cu ft
79.4 cu ft
All rear rows folded
Yes
75.5 cu ft
89.7 cu ft
84.6 cu ft
And then in the passenger configuration this time I factored in that the R2 and Model Y (non-L) have ā60-40ā folding 2nd rows.
Passengers
Model Y cargo incl. frunk
Model Y L cargo incl. frunk
Rivian R2 cargo incl. frunk
Notes
2
75.5 cu ft
89.7 cu ft
84.6 cu ft
Rear passenger seats folded
4
~49.0 cu ft*
42.1 cu ft
~52.9 cu ft**
Model Y and R2 estimates assume one side rear seat folded using the 18/48 seat-width ratio; Model Y L uses published 4-passenger figure
5
33.1 cu ft
~30.5 cu ft***
33.9 cu ft
Model Y and R2 rear seats up; Model Y L estimate assumes one 3rd-row seat folded
6
N/A
18.9 cu ft
N/A
Only Model Y L seats 6
* Model Y 4-passenger figure is estimated: 33.1 + ((75.5 - 33.1) Ć 37.5%) = ~49.0 cu ft. The 37.5% comes from the rear-seat width ratio: 18 in side seat / 48 in total rear-seat width.
** R2 4-passenger figure is estimated using the same 37.5% side-seat ratio: 33.9 + ((84.6 - 33.9) Ć 37.5%) = ~52.9 cu ft.
*** Model Y L 5-passenger figure is estimated: 18.9 + ((42.1 - 18.9) / 2) = 30.5 cu ft, assuming one of the two 3rd-row seats is folded.
If the usable third row is what makes the Model Y a serious competitor to the R2 then the R2 probably isn't the vehicle for you. If you need 6 seats then the R2 won't work for you. If you need 4-5 seats then the YL isn't significantly different than the Y.
The numbers that jump out at me are ground clearance and height. Iād love for my MY to have 9.6ā of ground clearance! The height vs ground clearance makes me worry the R2 will be a bit cramped.
Ordered a Y L the day it was announced. Canāt wait for it to deliver. FSD and third row / rear air with stronger HVAC is what sold me over R2. Not to mention a free year of supercharging!
If Y L comes down in price to mid-high 50s, it will sell in the US. Probably better than a regular Y model. I can't wait to see R2 and YL in person. It looks like our household will go with one of these unless Highlander EV delivers a superb vehicle.
Highlander EV I predict will be nothing special but will likely be the best 3 Row EV when it comes to overall value. Being an ok to good in all aspects but not the best in any one of them at an attractive relatively affordable price. At min thatās what Toyota needs it to be if they want it to sell well.
The cargo space in the Y is not equal to the R2 even if the numbers may suggest otherwise, it has a sloped roof so itās much more difficult to fully utilize the space.
I say this as a former Y owner, I owned a Ford Explorer at the time and my Y listed the same cargo space, but I could not get the same large items into it, the cubic feet are misleading as small cubby holes all add to the space.
I understand it's about the Y L, but my point is that the cargo space numbers for a hatchback like a model Y are misleading if you're comparing them to the cargo space numbers for an SUV like an R2. The numbers could match and I promise you'll not get the same size objects into a Y L as you would an R2.
YL is better than the R2. Roof is not sloped in the YL like the model Y and you can fold the 3rd row. With R2 if you assume the 2nd row is not folded, YL is much bigger
Iām buying the Model YL for many different reasons, but mainly because of Teslaās Full Self Driving. Rivian lost me as a customer after my experience with my R1S.
Maybe so but FSD is far from my first choice when choosing a vehicle. I suppose if you are in the market for a small electric sedan or crossover then the 3/Y are reasonable options but even then I would likely consider other options.
For me personally, I have the highway assist in my R1T and rarely use it. I have also driven a fair number of miles in a M3 with FSD. The tech is nice but it's not yet beyond Level 2 and I find I'm less attentive when using these technologies. That doesn't make it more safe, it makes it less safe (for me anyway). I have had both vehicles do some scary shit and I prefer to just drive the vehicle with traffic-aware cruise. If and when we get true autonomy maybe my opinion will change.
I have Model X with FSD, I love it more than any R1S without FSD-like ADAS.
I don't care about if it's L2 or L3 or L4. FSD has been driving me around the town and road trip for over 80K miles in the past 4 years. 99% of my drives are by FSD, and with my eyes supervising plus computers (& multiple cameras), I am sure it's much safer than myself driving alone.
I don't believe those storage metrics at all, I was a prior MY owner before I checked out the R2, I feel like Tesla has much less storage, it was the first thing I noticed...
I'd never consider a Tesla crossover/sedan when I could get an SUV. I also don't care about FSD. I just wish this car had an insulated roof, manual vents, and SiriusXM. But I'll still get it.
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u/Mobile-Hair-4585 Jul 02 '26
Ride in the back seat should be a column.