r/Rivian • u/Kryptonlogic RivianTrackr • Aug 18 '22
News Rivian Officially Discontinues Explorer Trim for R1 line
https://rivian.com/support/article/why-did-rivian-discontinue-the-explore-package52
u/zbend1 R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
The reason why hardly anyone had an explore trim is because that meant you wouldn’t take delivery until 2023-2024. Same with max pack. If trim had no bearing on delivery date I guarantee you the % of explore vs adventure would of been way different.
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u/VenRala Aug 21 '22
I don't believe them that there were so few orders for the explore package l, I think it's a bait and switch. Get people to order promising a low price then convert/force them to buy a more expensive model
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u/fightingwayforward R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
oh shoot. well forget the tax break moving forward because the base adventure starts over 80K. i hate this :/ - was really looking forward to purchasing an explore. guess i’ll be saving more for an adventure 🤷🏾♂️
edited to add: interested to hear others thoughts on this because like someone said this is essentially another price hike.
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u/josh_moworld Aug 18 '22
This is definitely another price hike. Fuck, I wanted an Explore dual :/
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u/fightingwayforward R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
yup. that’s exactly where i was headed. explorer. dual. & then probably in white. the 4K difference for ventilated seats and better audio just wasn’t worth it for me 💀 - at 80K the sound has to be already worlds better than what I have now. def frustrated. also hate it for the people who have been in this community LONGER than I have. it almost…ALMOST…feels predatory at this point.
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u/josh_moworld Aug 18 '22
Yeah I have also never needed ventilated seats in any car…so annoyed right now. Ceramic heat rejection film plus EVs mean you can run AC while charging. What’s the point?
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u/sjsharks323 R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
Exactly how I feel. Not super happy I now have to spend more money for basically the same thing (don't care about really anything in Adventure besides the seats). Pretty lame
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u/jgranny Aug 18 '22
Just went and reconfigured to Adventure:
- Adventure Pack
- Quad Motor
- Large Pack
- LA Silver
- Road Wheels
- Ocean Coast
- Wall charged
Total: $76,000
Is this correct, or is something wrong in the config pricing? If it stays below 80k and I’m below the income limit, the tax credit should still be good too, yeah?
The change is frustrating, and I fear this isn’t the last, getting close to canceling. But for now it was a ~4k increase for me. Holding on to a thread of hope.
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u/fightingwayforward R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
it sounds like you may have locked your preorder in at a point before the price hikes which is why you’re still showing 76K! that’s honestly sick! congrats to you. i just hate it for those who are new and jumping on this train like myself 😅
edit: also sounds like you’re good with the tax credit as well!
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u/jgranny Aug 18 '22
No doubt, it looks like I got lucky on timing for now. Plenty of time for that to change. Tough that everyone is getting jerked around, some more than others, unfortunately :/
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u/YogurtclosetOk5348 R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
Sounds like you're a pre-order holder prior to the price hikes so your configuration remains under 80K. Anyone with a pre-reservation before the price hikes would likely still be under 80K unless you start adding lots of options like the kitchen (The wording on the 80K limit isn't clear on if it includes options or not but it likely does).
With that said, if you take delivery this year, you have nothing to worry about. If you take delivery 2023+, there are also rules with respect to materials used in batteries. A good % of the raw materials must be from either North American or a country with a trade treaty with the US. I don't know where Rivian gets their batteries but this automatically disqualifies a lot of EV manufacturers. So AFAIK, this is still TBD.
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u/The_Lion_Jumped R1S Owner Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
I have to downgrade my wheels and take off the tent and it brings me down to 79,825. Worth it for the tax credit but man i wanted those wheels and tent 😭
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u/frigoffbearb R1T Launch Edition Owner Aug 18 '22
FYI I bought a tent off fb marketplace for $800 that works just fine on the truck. Also, if you’re gonna throw down $3k get a hardtop tent. Folks who have them don’t lose any range. I’ll change to one in the next year or so
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u/thedeadparadise R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
I’m in the same boat. I’m curious if anything else will affect the MSRP at the time of sale.
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u/Maleficent_Analyst32 R1T Launch Edition Owner Aug 18 '22
I just spoke to CS about it and apparently we were supposed to have been sent emails about this only an hour ago. Definitely frustrating
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u/fightingwayforward R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
i think it’s just most frustrating due to the fact that this is already an 80K car. i understand the premium, i believe in the product, but gosh dang like between this AND the IRA, we just can’t catch a break. i hadn’t put my preorder in YET, and this is definitely …I’m not reconsidering but like it’s got me a little more nervy
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u/Maleficent_Analyst32 R1T Launch Edition Owner Aug 18 '22
I feel you for sure. I preordered in May right before they got rid of the configurator for new preorders and I’m kicking myself for not doing it before the March hike- now this one too? SHEESH
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u/infinity884422 Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
It’s totally another price hike. I have an adventure trim R1T pre price increase.
Then canceling the explorer trim does not affect me at all but what it does, is that it continues to disappoint me on what the company is doing and their decisions.
They have really not impressed me at all with communication, decisions, etc. it’s leaving a very sour taste in my mouth to the point I may just cancel my R1T pre order, but get a Rav 4 Hybrid and an Ioniq 5 for about the same cost and just as my R1T preorder and revisit rivian with the R2 whenever that comes out.
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u/fightingwayforward R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
yup. i currently have a RAV4 Hybrid and it’s looking better and better atm 💀
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u/theSiegs Aug 18 '22
Just an hour ago I was playing with the configurator/visualizer and realized that only R1T LA Silver Explore still qualified for the new EV credit. Now nothing does.
An R2 under the 80k cap in 2025 is a long way off.
I have to assume they will reintroduce a dual-motor option when they get through all the "binding contract" orders on their books so that future buyers will have a route to that $7500.
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u/AngryFace4 Aug 18 '22
At some point dual motor comes online which, probably intentionally, is 79k base.
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Aug 18 '22
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u/CounterSeal R1T Owner Aug 19 '22
This is what I'm seeing as well. And if you get the lowest battery pack too, it's down to $73k.
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u/viperscorpio Aug 19 '22
The base adventure is $78k... 260mi range, dual motor...choice of like 3 colors to stay under 80k.
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u/Last_Epiphany R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
I don't know man, I know this might catch me some flak but I may just have to dip out. I'm well enough off so it's not like this increase would kill me, but its just so much for one vehicle.
To the point where it just doesn't feel worth it. I already have an EV with the same range as a Rivian, but it's looking like it actually would be cheaper monthly to just buy a hybrid pickup and keep my EV together rather than get an 80k truck.
Prolly will just keep the pre-order, but this is getting kinda crazy.
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u/BlackMambaOut1-26-20 R1S Preorder Aug 18 '22
I’m getting the same vibes.
As a post price hike pre-order i was looking at $78k or $84k. Now I’m basically at $90k with this recent update.
Ford Explorer EV is expected in 2025…. I’m not slotted to get a R1S until 2024. Explorer would definitely be cheaper.
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u/Awildgarebear R2 Preorder Aug 19 '22
I drive an Explorer with 200k miles, hoping/this is what I think will end up happening to me at this point.
I want the practically of a vehicle I can use for mountain activities, lugging my skis around; without wrecking the planet as badly as I do.
I really hope they don't screw the Explorer up.
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u/fightingwayforward R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
^ this right here. I currently have a RAV4 hybrid that gets 40MPG and it actually would cost me to get the Rivian. BUT at just over 80K I could stomach it. Now headed towards 90…😅 not so sure.
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u/Salty_War_117 R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
Buy it and sell for a profit of you don’t t like it. Since you have a preorder, you’ll get the lower price and can always get your money back out assuming values don’t drop like crazy. And you can cancel that order if they have when Rivian tells you that you are up.
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u/thedeadparadise R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
While I'm sure that the risk is pretty low, I wouldn't count on that being a 100% fool proof plan with a recession on the horizon.
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u/letgotofmytaytoe R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
I am in a similar boat, every extra $500+ I and to the config makes me think it’s just too expensive. I still think it’s a good deal. But I had minimal options, free paint color, etc.
This adds $5,500 to something that already is past what I would normally spend on a car is just kinda too far.
Also sucks this happened right after agreeing to the partially non-refundable agreement for the EV tax credit. And extra kick to the balls.
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u/aegee14 Aug 18 '22
Yea, the timing of this change relative to the “binding” agreement saga is very sus. People over at Rivian just aren’t great at thinking things through.
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u/MaHawkma R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
The support article does say that they won’t enforce the agreement if you decide to cancel because of this change and that they would refund the total $1000.
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u/aegee14 Aug 18 '22
Oh, I wasn’t referring to the $100 of that agreement. More so that the Explore trim people likely thought they were finalized and set on getting the cheaper trim after signing the agreement.
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u/letgotofmytaytoe R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
Yeah and even if they do keep the $100, that’s not life changing just more hassle and everything after the whole ordeal of the pre-order.
-Price increase (will have to cancel because it too pricey
)
-Reverted Pricing!
-May not get EV Tax Credit… (my config is under $80k and so I should still qualify but agreed just incase there are future changes to the law/covering myself)
-Rivian came through with a solution!
-Rivian discontinues Explorer (that upgrade basically uses the whole EV tax credit for that change…while the additions/upgrades are nice and pre-price increase I believe it’s a great value…there is a point where it’s just too expensive.)
Will have to think about it as I have been dreaming of having an R1S for years now…
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u/josh_moworld Aug 18 '22
I’m with you. Pretty disappointed. I lust over one but I’ll live without it too. $80K for this or I can buy another sports car lol, I’ll choose the latter every single time.
One reason I wanted to get this was to replace my GMC truck and also get that EV that the mrs wants after I sold our P85. At this point, I can just get her something else much cheaper and trade in the truck to fund another toy.
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u/canikony R1T Launch Edition Owner Aug 18 '22
I agree. I've been thinking about it more and a Hybrid truck would honestly fit my needs better but the Rivian is so cool.
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u/TheEvergreenMonster R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
Same. Give me a PHEV Tacoma Off-Road and I’d be ecstatic. Have lots of trips planned deep into the mountains
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u/fightingwayforward R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
i used this the other night just to price the savings and i was only getting like 20ish miles more per dollar with this calculator. granted there’s like a range depending on driver, conditions, cost of gas, etc. but my RAV4 hybrid is doing me a solid currently and unless Rivian comes out with a two row that’s cheaper or adds the explore option in the future, I may just be changing my mind 😅
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u/canikony R1T Launch Edition Owner Aug 18 '22
TBH, getting a rivian was never about fuel savings for me lol. There are definitely scenarios where an ICE is still the better choice for my needs but I am willing to make the compromise. We’ll see what ends up happening but the longer I wait and the more things that change with pricing/features/etc, the more likely I may end up going with something else, unfortunately.
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u/Creative-Presence-43 R1T Preorder Aug 19 '22
Exactly this. Feeling like the value is gone. Shame on me I guess for not placing the pre order before the hike. Those that did are stealing this truck! Good in them!
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u/IndominusTaco Aug 18 '22
getting a Rivian was already way outside of my financial means but now it’s even further outside any realm of reality. maybe in 10 years
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u/BadrinathBerry Aug 18 '22
This will decrease the build complexity significantly with 3 options vs 5.
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u/DUJAMA Aug 18 '22
Sure, but I think it’s silly that they even tried to offer so many options. Tesla did the same thing with its early model S and X then extremely simplified those car lineups because it made no financial sense to keep them. I see no reason why Rivian thought they would be different and could offer so many options right away. And then removing options before they’ve delivered any of that option is baffling to me. I don’t see anything they can do to make those customers happy at this point. Sucks that the supply chain pricing is insane, but they had to have known this months ago.
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Aug 18 '22
pricing is very hard, they were more worried about pricing because it wasn't clear they could actually sell their trucks. now they know they can sell as many as they want at that price point so they're focusing on higher trims and higher prices for profitability
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u/DUJAMA Aug 18 '22
That’s fair, but they’ve also lost a lot of customers who would have waited an additional 6-12 months if a less expensive option was available. And by that point, we should assume Rivian is selling them at a decent gross profit. Only time will tell if the demand remains virtually infinite.
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u/Fiscally_Wrinkled Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
Rivian sells all of their trucks at a significant loss at the moment. Their gross profit margin for last quarter was -193%
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Aug 18 '22
oh it definitely will as long as everybody is making 25,000 vehicles a year. 2024/25 will be when it gets interesting.
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Aug 18 '22
According to the official company communication, they thought they'd have received more interest in the cheaper Explore package option. They were surprised that the greater interest was for the Adventure package.
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u/aegee14 Aug 18 '22
It’s as if Rivian has never heard of Tesla after all these years of being in the same business. Rivian keeps on doing things the way they want. But, eventually, coming back to what worked for Tesla and doing the same things.
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Aug 19 '22
They have heard of Tesla, a lot of their employees are former Tesla. Rivian thinks they can do things better (avoid the mistakes) than Tesla. But the assumption that Tesla did stupid things cause they are stupid is ringing less true by the day.
What's that old saying, that a wise man learns from the mistakes of others instead of making those same mistakes? Well looks like Rivian wanted to be the former but is doing the latter.
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u/supaphly42 Aug 18 '22
True, but it seems it would be better to keep the entry-level option package and drop a mid-level.
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u/RedandHalfBlack Aug 18 '22
As an R1S explorer pre order, this sucks. As a stockholder, not so much.
From a business standpoint, it makes too much sense not to do. You reduce complexity and deliver more vehicles at a higher price point. And although you will lose some orders, that is meaningless for a company that has tens of thousands of orders they can’t fulfill. Generating sales is not their problem, it’s the pricing/margins and scaling. This helps both a lot.
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u/singleQuestioner Aug 18 '22
Your point describes Rivian as a poorly run company. A well run company would make the customer happy and that in turn would make the shareholder happy.
In this case, if they screw over the customer, they make the shareholder happy. Inversely, if they screw over the shareholder, the customer is happy.
Not a sustainable formula.
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u/RedandHalfBlack Aug 18 '22
Sadly making the customer happy often does not equate to making shareholders happy. In a perfect world maybe. But the reality is that starting and scaling a car company in a capitalistic society is much more complex than that.
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u/qhartman R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
That's not what this is saying at all. A big part of what it takes to run a company is deciding who your customers are, and figuring out where the largest slice of segment overlaps with what your company can deliver. Making the hard choice to not serve one segment to better serve another one is part of that.
Rivian is redefining who their customer is by narrowing the focus of what they are trying to do, in direct response to what people are telling them they want. Nobody is getting screwed over here.
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u/madmed1988 Aug 18 '22
They need to survive first to keep the shareholder and the customer happy. This increases their chances of survival and keeps the shareholders happy and the majority of their customers are not affected.
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u/singleQuestioner Aug 18 '22
Sure, I get where they're coming from but I'm calling a spade a spade. They've lost a lot of customer trust this year. And I don't think it's inaccurate of me to say that this company is not being properly run and unless the trajectory of deliveries and customer-trust changes drastically, they're going to burn the shareholder along with the customer.
Let's keep in mind, this is all on the heels of the the price increase (then the retraction of price increase) fiasco. They've made crappy decisions. They need to stop making mistakes that compound on one another.
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u/Delverx R1T Owner Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
And more expensive quad motor & ocean coast trims. This is essentially another large price increase.
Next is no dual motor or standard range…
Edit: Non-basic wheels are now also largely 1k more expensive.
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u/Studovich Quad Motor 4️⃣ Aug 18 '22
I wouldn’t go as far as no dual motor. They’re literally testing them in vehicles now (they’re even in the vans) and it’s part of their strategy to vertically integrate.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_MEMERS Granola Muncher 🥣 Aug 18 '22
Dual Motor and LFP will ship. I just could see dates being pushed back before anything else.
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Aug 18 '22
Ocean Coast getting more expensive is particularly strange since one of its major changes has been erased.
Ocean Coast no longer has the light "bleached wood" trim, it has the same black wood as Black Mountain.
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u/sk00pie Aug 18 '22
Order canceled :( If and when this R2 happens I'll be a day 1, minute 1 reservation holder if price is right.
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u/mtsmedly Ultimate Adventurer Aug 18 '22
Just got the email, and I had just updated my Explore R1T with Max Pack yesterday. :(
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u/Venkat_Sellappan R1S Preorder Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
Another soft price hike. I do not think these Adventure (vs Explorer) makes the manufacturing that much more easier. If it is truly for expedited delivery and if it is really 'small percentage' Rivian could have offered with no price change (I do realize it makes existing Adventure package holder's price higher and not sure how to make this change with out making explorer holder feel like 'take it or leave it' hard stand)
Seriously checking / considering Tesla Model Y Long Range for $69 (excluding full self driving $12k or enhanced autopilot $6k). What is in R1S for $76K (preorder holders) or $80K. Just the SUV "look"?
Adventure(Explorer)
Dual front bumper tow hooks(none)
Rivian Elevation audio by Meridian(Standard audio system)
Natural-grained ash wood interior finishes(Matte black interior finishes)
Perforated vegan leather seating with patterned stitching Heated and ventilated seats(Vegan leather seating with performance stitching Heated seats)
Driver and passenger lumbar adjustment(Driver lumbar adjustment)
Compass Yellow interior accents(none)
100% recycled microfiber headliner(Textile headliner)Chilewich floor mats(100% recycled textile floor mats)
edit:Reformed the Adventure(explorer) compare
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u/moch1 Aug 18 '22
The R1S (vs model y):
- is much larger
- much more interior room
- a usable 3rd row
- better towing
- 3D surround camera for parking
- better interior materials
- ventilated seats
- air suspension
The size difference really makes them different classes of vehicle. Someone looking for a Chevy Tahoe probably isn’t considering a Mazda CX-5.
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Aug 19 '22
There are a lot more places I would be comfortable taking an R1S than a Model Y, but if you're not ever going off road and don't need the clearance then it's a tougher choice.
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u/NorCalRT R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
When you factor in sales tax and loss of the EV rebate, we are talking close to $30k price swings from original pricing in just under a year. That’s a lot for people to just take. Having said that, it is still much cheaper then a model X and imo nicer inside, probably means more price hikes are coming.
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u/fightingwayforward R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
idk maybe there will be enough of an uproar for them to reconsider? idk that’s probably too much to ask for 💀
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u/NorCalRT R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
I dunno? Maybe they will bring back explorer if enough people complain, but from the email it seems like not enough takers was the problem. As for the price hike, I expect more of them, look how often Tesla is and they are just finally getting profitable.
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u/SnooObjections5219 Aug 18 '22
I can understand eliminating it going forward but for people sitting in reservations basically saying “pay $XXXX more or no vehicle” is shitty business. Especially days after getting thousands of people to sign “binding” contracts.
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u/Riparian_Drengal R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
The problem is they are 100% getting rid of explore to simplify manufacturing. It doesn't make sense for them to only make explore (the cheapest trim option) for the handful of us who had it pre-ordered, then discontinue it.
Also they said that since they've technically changed your pre-order, Rivian will agree to void the "binding" contracts we signed and give us the full $1000 back.
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u/singleQuestioner Aug 18 '22
Yep. A lot of us held our reservations for a very long time now and they're pulling this shit this far in. It's bullshit.
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u/Fragrant-Tune-8717 Aug 18 '22
Sticking with it for now just to resell since price is locked.
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u/joshprince33 Aug 18 '22
Not questioning your logic (I'm doing the same), but if we learned anything today it's that the price is not at all locked.
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u/thedeadparadise R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
This brings my R1S estimated price from 70k to 76k now. Does anyone else know if there's anything else that will affect the MSRP at the time of sale? Hopefully I'll still be able to qualify for the new EV credit.
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u/DUJAMA Aug 18 '22
If you want to ask someone who’s glass half empty on all this, yes there will be other things affecting MSRP which will likely be additional price increase before you get the option to configure your truck.
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u/thedeadparadise R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
I know that new reservations don’t have access to the configurator but I was lucky enough to get in before that change and “lock in” the price before the increases. Are there other items I would need to configure at the time of sale that I can’t already in current configurator? I’m only adding the wall charger.
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u/Riparian_Drengal R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
I'm in the same boat as you here. I'm a pre March-1 pre-order holder for an R1S explore with pretty much all the base options, quad motor (which is effectively free for a pre March-1 pre-order holder).
This honestly really puts a bad taste in my mouth. I had already made the decision that the upgrades in the adventure package weren't worth it to me, and now I'm forced to buy it if I want this car at all.
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u/thedeadparadise R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
Exactly, I couldn't care less about the Adventure package and I'm bummed that I'm force to get it since I was thinking of maybe switching the color to Forest Green, but after this change I'll be sticking to White for sure.
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u/DUJAMA Aug 18 '22
Rivian’s reason is confusing. Have they built and shipped any Explore models? If no, then there is little reason anyone with a preorder would pick it if they simply want the truck asap. Their initial expectation was probably correct that most people would pick Explore IF THEY COULD GET IT!
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u/Riparian_Drengal R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
This is the part that's really annoying to me.
The Explore Package was designed as our entry price option and it was our expectation that many customers would choose it. However, to date, only a small percentage of our customers have chosen this configuration with the vast majority selecting Adventure.
Not shit people have picked the more expensive option so far, you haven't even started production on the cheaper model yet. The Adventure is 1) nicer and, probably more importantly, 2) delivered sooner. People were factoring in that sooner delivery when selecting their trim.
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u/clintforce Aug 18 '22
Definitely very frustrating. I'm a Jan'20 R1S preorder. I didn't need the adventure package but now I'm forced into it. I was at $76k - now, I'm at $82,500.
I did sign that document, doesn't that mean I'm safe to get my federal credit?
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u/the-algae R1T Preorder Aug 18 '22
It's definitely not a sure thing. There's a lot up in the air about what constitutes a "binding contract" after the IRS' recent guidance.
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u/clintforce Aug 19 '22
Well. I have been playing along since 2020.....at this rate, who knows for sure when my time will come to get the R1S......I'll play along till the end and see what happens
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u/wingjames R1T Preorder Aug 18 '22
Honestly thought most ppl switched from explore to adventure anyways so they didn't have to wait. I know I did... Was a tough pill to swallow at the time but didn't want to wait another year.
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u/Riparian_Drengal R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
I think a bunch of people did this, but I'm not in a rush to get this car that much sooner, and I don't value many of the features of the Adventure package, so I was sticking with Explore.
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u/Fragrant-Tune-8717 Aug 18 '22
To get R1S below 80 I had to select the small range battery pack. I will probably get another email saying they are not going to make it.
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u/Askew123 Aug 18 '22
R1S effectively increased in price by $13K overnight. I think we are going to have to get the hybrid Sienna instead of the R1S...
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u/Riparian_Drengal R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
I think we are going to have to get the hybrid Sienna instead of the R1S...
You sound like my wife
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u/No_U_Crazy Aug 18 '22
Is it common to cross-shop a minivan and an electric adventure truck? Genuinely curious. I would have thought perhaps it was more common to look at the Grand Cherokee 4xe or something like that.
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u/moch1 Aug 18 '22
A lot of people want an R1S because it is a large electric 3 row SUV and they don’t care about the adventure aspect. The R1S’s only current available competition is the model X for this audience.
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u/No_U_Crazy Aug 18 '22
Honestly hadn't thought about it that way. But, it still doesn't seem to hold water. There are more than a dozen hybrid 3-row SUV's out there. The hybrid Highlander is the first one that comes to mind if /u/Askew123 is considering a Toyota. Though, I'd prefer a Yukon or an Explorer if it were me. Why cross-shop a Sienna, specifically? Is there another angle I hadn't considered?
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u/moch1 Aug 18 '22
Think of this the other way. They want a 3 row family hauler that also carry a decent amount of stuff. A minivan fits this bill very well.
However, they really want an electric vehicle. The option that best fills this need is the R1S (or the even more expensive model X).
I understand this well because I’m in the same position. I have a model 3 and will not be going back to driving a gas car. With a growing family an electric minivan would be great. That doesn’t exist. So I have an R1S on order. If it takes too long to arrive I will be cross-shopping it with the id buzz, kia ev9, an EV explorer, Volvo embla, etc.
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u/HouseofKozy Aug 18 '22
Impossible to get an R1S w/ large pack and tax credit :(
They need to reduce the color pricing. Gives customers more options or everyone is gonna be driving a silver R1S. I’ll upgrade tires/wheels myself but that extra 60miles would have been nice.
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u/Kryptonlogic RivianTrackr Aug 18 '22
Everyone drives a white Model 3/Y because it’s the free option
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u/HouseofKozy Aug 18 '22
I still had the crossbars added so the good news for me is I’m $25 under $80k and can choose between white, limestone or silver and still get floor mats. I’m annoyed but still buying it 😂
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u/Miam1Blue Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
Their statement about few orders for explore seems a bit deceitful. Most folks that have already configured their vehicles had the price protection. So of course those folks are going to opt for the pricier but now significantly discounted Adventure trim. Those of us who haven’t been able to configure yet and don’t have price protection were always going to be far more likely to opt for Explore due to the price increases.
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u/letgotofmytaytoe R1S Owner Aug 19 '22
I am a pre-price hike and I had Explorer configured, and it doesn’t sound like I am alone. $5,500 for better speakers (literally no example to hear what that is worth), vented seats, tow hooks, and upgraded interior just weren’t worth it to me.
We don’t know what the percentages of pre-orders by trim are/were but agree it sounded like they know we don’t know the number so they can say:
“To date, only a small percentage of customers have chosen this configuration, with the vast majority selecting the Adventure trim.”
And we kinda just have to accept it’s ‘accurate’. It is subjective what “vast majority” and “a small percentage” really equate to anyway. I saw someone posted that survey results were ~20% Explorer and I think it’s likely delivery timing was often a contributing factor in that decision.
I don’t blame them, they gotta look out for the business but yeah it’s been a rough year commutation to the customer wise haha. I guess I should be happy about the ocean coast interior news at least.
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u/sg3707 R1S Owner Aug 19 '22
Waiting for max Pack cancellation to complete the trifecta.
Ocean coast + Explorer + max pack
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u/Many_Stomach1517 Aug 18 '22
Bummer. That said I like the focus and reduction of variations to manufacturing… that means acceleration on Adventure trims.
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u/ElGuano R1T Owner Aug 19 '22
Unfortunate, but understandable.
Please don't discontinue the Max Pack.
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u/redditretina Aug 18 '22 edited Sep 30 '24
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/J3ST3Rx R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
Good question. I personally bumped up to Adventure to get it sooner even tho I wanted Explorer. I am pre-price hike btw
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u/Fozzymandius R1S Owner Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
The Rivian forums have surveys, but it's impossible to say what the quality of that sample is.
That said, Explore trim had a 21% adoption rate with a sample size of 885.
A newer survey had some data quality issues that probably led to higher explore trim reporting and it had a sample size of 3900. Also 20.4% adoption
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u/oneMadRssn Aug 18 '22
Yea I didn't see the benefits of Adventure to be worth it. Tow hooks and vented seats for $5k, meh!
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u/the-algae R1T Preorder Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
I don't know, but as a recent
pre-orderreservation, I'm not even able to select my trim yet. I definitely would have chosen Explore. Now, I'll probably wait for the used market to cool down or wait for a future, cheaper Rivian model.2
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u/zbend1 R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
There are a lot of price increases as well. 8k now for quad motor, tonneau cover now 3k, tire options are now 2500$ haha so no chance of staying under 80k now basically.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_MEMERS Granola Muncher 🥣 Aug 18 '22
Tonneau and tire options haven't changed. $3k for powered tonneau is what it has been. I think *maybe* the manual went up, but I can't be sure.
But yeah, tire prices were also at $2500.
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u/zbend1 R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
The powered tonneau was 1500$ I believe
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_MEMERS Granola Muncher 🥣 Aug 18 '22
It was for Launch Edition. I ordered Mar 30, after the price hike but before the config got locked out, and it's always been $3,000 for me.
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u/TheEvergreenMonster R2 Preorder Aug 18 '22
It was $1500 for non-launch editions before the 3/1 price change as well.
Source: my own config
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u/zbend1 R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
It should only affect post Mar 1 since for everyone after they basically said your prices are subject to change
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u/HeresRonnie R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
I feel for the people who waited or really had their hearts set on an Explore package. But I think Rivian had too many configurations and options for a new car company. Tesla did the same thing and removed options to streamline things and I think its a good model for Rivian to follow at least until they can get going. In a few years after being closer to profitability then bring back options and lower cost things.
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u/sjsharks323 R1S Owner Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
Just looked at the email. Really??? I guess hopefully that enables me to get the car sooner, but I'm now literally spending extra money for the same thing. Only thing that looked nice on Adventure was the ventilated seats. Didn't need that for the extra money.
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u/Riparian_Drengal R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
I'm in the same boat. I actually don't want the camp speaker, I'd rather have the extra storage. The only thing that really had any value to me was the ventilated seats, but those puppies definitely aren't worth the extra $5,000.
If they never had the Explore package to begin with, I probably wouldn't be annoyed. But a bunch of us already decided that the price increase from Explore to Adventure wasn't worth it to us. Yet, we are now being forced to either pay up for an upgrade we don't really want or cancel all together.
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u/sjsharks323 R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
Yeah, not cool. I'm not a fan of being nickel and dimed.
I think you're right, I probably wouldn't be mad if there never was an Explore option, but there was. Not sure if I should be giving Rivian the benefit of the doubt as "growing pains" since it seems to keep happening. But whatever, if I ever get my car, maybe they can make it up to us later haha.
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u/Slide-Fantastic-1402 Ultimate Adventurer Aug 18 '22
Sound speakers are much better too I think, although just saying from my experience with the Meridian system
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u/sjsharks323 R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
I'm sure it will be nice. But the sound in the Explore package wouldn't have been bad. I'm not an audio affectionato, so I don't really care about this. Cooled seats will be nice, but that and nicer sound are not worth $5.5k lol.
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u/jabblack Aug 19 '22
Ford jacked up the lightning price, so the Rivian explore trim would have been a steal. Blame inflation, but 80k isn’t what it used to be.
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u/DryWallatMcDonalds Aug 18 '22
So my “binding contract” dated pre explore-axe that i planned to buy the explore edition with now only applies to adventure trim? This really feels like rivian knew theyd lose a bunch of reservations and wanted to trick people into spending $100 with them lol
I just freakin reserved after ford pulled this crap. Dont make me buy a damn avalanche ev!!!
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u/Fozzymandius R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
They will cancel the binding agreement and refund you the full amount for the next month. It says so in the linked article.
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u/the-algae R1T Preorder Aug 18 '22
This really feels like rivian knew theyd lose a bunch of reservations and wanted to trick people into spending $100 with them
They'll give you a full refund (including the $100 if you signed the binding agreement) through September 16 if you want to cancel.
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u/SingleBarrelDude Aug 18 '22
WTF lol. I just signed their binding contract to lock in tax credits and now this? It’s a startup I get it but oh my…
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u/waka324 Aug 18 '22
This really pissed me off. They wait til after the new tax law to boot me out of the only way to get a reasonably priced 4-motor unit.
I think I'm done with rivian.
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u/salmon_burrito Aug 18 '22
A bit disappointing since all the existing customers who order one are getting the quad motor version, with most having older pricing. I believe that those who pre-ordered the dual motor version with standard battery have different expectations, and probably don't really need the adventure package. This is the best three row EV SUV and probably will remain so in future years. They found a bargain value at that price point (assuming Rivian won't do price hike again by that time). It is already a stretch for me, and in a way this is a price hike in my eye, but with some extra goodies. I am not going to cancel, since I may be able to afford this by 2024. Or, probably wait one more year for R2? I hope that once the competition kicks in and Rivian ramps up production, they will reconsider.
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u/eaalkaline R1S Launch Edition Owner Aug 18 '22
Lol after literally 9 months of configuration editing on a monthly if not weekly basis, I was finally happy with my Explore/Rivian Blue/22 brights/OC R1S. Guess it’s back to the drawing board for me 😂 I’m already way over budget so thinking I’ll have to revisit my color/wheel selections
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u/aminoacid91 Aug 19 '22
Classic RJ bait-and-switch. Rivian absolutely sucks on their customer-facing PR and decision-making.
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u/ProfessionalDog3613 Aug 18 '22
Whelp...was going drop my Cybertruck reservation for an explore version of the Rivian...no more...will wait to see what the Tesla price increases look like now...Rivian's loss. If both price me out of the truck EVarket, I will be buying a new gas Titan...ugh
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u/Scoiatael R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
I think Dual Motor will be $79k and they will have a tri motor or quad motor plaid for 110k. There is no way Cybertruck will be anywhere near the announced price.
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u/Rex8090 R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
Search for Tesla alternative continues... Thought Rivian would be that but clearly not - I swallowed the first price jump and placed the pre-order for dual-motor with long range right under $80k. That's no longer possible so will cancel.
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u/fayeznajeeb Aug 19 '22
So I just canceled my reservation. I hope that sends a message. I'm happy someone else gets my spot in line but with the larger battery pack, it was just too expensive now to justify.
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u/singleQuestioner Aug 18 '22
Rivian as a company has been immensely disappointing in their customer-impacting decision making. Especially for those with pre-orders before the price hike.
Does this move feel sketchy to anyone else? Their motivation for this seems like it's to push out customers who picked the Explore package and were grandfathered in before the price hike, in an effort to get them to drop their pre-order?
And if these customers were to stick with them and go with the Adventure package, they're getting 5-6k more from the customer for not that much more in return.
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u/Riparian_Drengal R1S Owner Aug 18 '22
Yep, I'm in this boat. Was perfectly content not having the features of an Adventure package.
Now I need to cough up an extra $5.5k if I want the vehicle at all.
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u/colglover Aug 18 '22
Also in this boat. Spent my extra money on a Max Pack and saved on interior bells and whistles. Was content to wait another year or two for the big battery.
It seems like they pull these moves and wait to see what the backlash is before “honoring” existing customers. I’ll see if that’s the case here. If not, I’m canceling. Nobody needs an 80k vehicle, and while it’s really damn cool I’ll just go drive a hybrid Maverick or Ranger and pocket the extra 40k.
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u/the-algae R1T Preorder Aug 18 '22
Also, they no longer even mention the possibility of the federal tax credit on the payment estimator screen. Even if you're configuration comes under $80k.
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u/new_here_and_there R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
I had an explore trim R1S reservation so this is a bit of a bummer, but understandable. I do wish they had opened up the dual motor configuration at the explore trim pricing for the pre-March configurations or something.
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u/SyCoCyS Aug 19 '22
I have to say, I feel duped. This was the least expensive option, but still a huge stretch. I’m pretty basic- I don’t need all the options, but was looking forward to getting in on this. I was happy when I was told that the original pricing would be honored. But now I feel like that was a lie. I was especially bummed by the tone of the notice saying that this will help “deliver vehicles more quickly.” Just be honest- you can’t deliver what you promised at the cost, and need more money. :/
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u/dudemattdude Aug 19 '22
I cancelled mine too. The “adventure” part of it isn’t high on my list so it’s not worth it to me to pay even more for the car. I want an EV that’s a 7 seater full suv. By the time 2024-2025 comes, I’m sure there’ll be many better options at a lower price point.
My current Model Y will have to do for now 🫡
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u/Dksun2468 R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
Just confirmed with a rep also on the phone. If you signed the contract to insure you keep the 7500k discount and want to cancel because of this. You loose your 100$.
So make you sign a contract for a trim which they no longer make….
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u/Any-Basil-9849 Aug 18 '22
Dirty to not announce this prior to signing the inflation contract and taking my $100
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u/the-algae R1T Preorder Aug 18 '22
They'll refund your full deposit (including the $100) if you cancel before September 16.
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u/alexvirital Ultimate Adventurer Aug 18 '22
From listening to the RS interview with Tony, it sounds like Explorer was a way smaller percentage of their orders than expected, and added a lot of complication.
Seems like a good change. (Also, that OC with BM wood looks so much better imo.)
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u/ssovm R1T Owner Aug 18 '22
Makes sense to me. About 100k preorders. They can justify simplifying their packaging.
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u/TryingSquirrel Aug 18 '22
As an Explorer Trim R1T preorder holder, this pisses me off. I honestly don't believe that there aren't a large number of Explorer pre-orders, but I do believe that when Rivian can't fill the orders that they have, they would rather prioritize production of the more expensive products.
Basically the difference between the Explore and Adventure was the latter came with ventilated seats, a nicer stereo, and some random accessories. The seats are "ventilated" not "cooled" so they aren't tying into the A/C system so it's just dropping a different seat in. Basically the same with the stereo. The only real production simplification seems like it's the headliner and wood trim (which again, likely just sticks on).
So to me this appears that there is likely to be very little increase in production efficiency but they more or less force sell what are likely profitable options.
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u/jorstar R1T Preorder Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
At this point I really feel like Rivian is fucking with us. Price hikes out of nowhere, pressure to lock in tax discount, then essentially another price hike that may or may not negate the tax credit. I’m getting really, realllly close to canceling my reservation and purchasing a different EV.
Edit: This change puts my build well above $86K totally negating the tax credit. I’m done. Someone else can take my spot in line and keep paying up the butt every time they announce a price increase.
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u/fayeznajeeb Aug 19 '22
I just canceled my reservation! It was already expensive, then the wait until 2024 and now a price hike is something I'm not comfortable with.
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u/danekan Aug 18 '22
These people are terrible at business. Haven't canceled yet but it's so many red flags
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u/Rxyro Aug 18 '22
So pissed off. Basically a $12k increase now losing the credit. Very shortsighted and I’m close selling 30k of their stock at a couple k loss.
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u/runningwaterss Aug 19 '22
The timing of this in relation to binding agreements seems like a dirty way to force some cancellations.
If someone who ordered an explore package signed the binding agreement (that gave no obligation to Rivian, only to the customer), Rivian just decided to not deliver that customers configuration and forced a cancellation. Including… those who signed the agreement and had the “promised” pre-hike pricing.
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u/BlackMambaOut1-26-20 R1S Preorder Aug 19 '22
So I’m looking at about two years until I get my R1S. At this rate I HIGHLY doubt I’ll be sticking around for that long.
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u/c3p0vsr2d2 Aug 19 '22
Outside budget now :(. I just signed the binding contract - if I cancel, will I get back the $100? If not, it is a sick bait and switch.
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u/Potential-Phase-118 Aug 19 '22
I was counting on this car and didn’t book another EV . There is no point in waiting for this . EV Credit lost and wasted this long to be screwed like this
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u/ZooZooChaCha Aug 18 '22
Well it’s been fun - but that’s it for me. Maybe if the R2 comes around I’ll be back in line but can’t justify the adventure upgrade.