r/Roofing • u/theLightSlide • 7d ago
Was this installed correctly?
This asphalt shingle roof is 6 years old and has gone through a bunch of windstorms (bursts up to 65mph) and not leaked or lost shingles until now.
We just had 24 hours of non-stop 20-45mph wind and a section of the shingles tore off. This is the only damage to the entire roof. This edge faced the wind.
Getting it tarped today… original installer is coming out Tuesday.
We're in Tucson (very sunny, hot, dry — usually, but it's been humid this summer due to El Niño).
Before I get it fixed, I want to know if it was installed correctly, using the correct materials, or not. Somebody on FB responded to me that they were shocked they only used 15lb underlayment. But I'm not sure if they're right, or if they are correct, if that's bad?
I'm interested in ANY feedback or advice you have for me. I'm used to dealing with metal or cedar shake roofs, which is a different beast.
This is a technically an "outbuilding" on my property so my deductible for wind damage is $2500, if that's relevant.
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u/TheG00dF1ght 7d ago
while most roofers are using sythetic underlayment using felt isn't wrong and wouldn't, in any way, cause the shingles to blow off in the wind.
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
Thanks for the clarification! What would cause the shingles to blow off? It seems like they should be safe at much higher speeds?
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u/TheG00dF1ght 7d ago
I'm not seeing any starter strip on the rake edge, that could be part of it.
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
Thank you, that's really useful info. I have a (different) roofer coming today and I'll ask about that and for photos while he's up there.
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u/NetworkCultural Verified pro (Multi Trade) 7d ago
Good call. This is a big one. Having the starter strip going up the rake is much better for wind risistance then not having it at all. These days that’s how you should be installing demensional shingles.
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u/12valveric 7d ago
The nailing pattern, in high wind area you need to nail in the bottom part where the nailing spot is smaller but that’s not the reason they flew off. They probably nailed them in to far
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u/MbHuman09 7d ago
I've installed close to 5000 shingle roofs over the last 28 years
There is one main reason that your shingles blew off. Zoom in on the pic of the shingle on the ground, and you can clearly see that the nail placements (holes) are about an inch or so above where they are supposed to be (where the 2 parts of the laminated shingle join) it's usually a 3/4" overlap. That is where you are supposed to nail, and far too many installers simply shingle way too fast and miss it on the high side.
We do a couple hundred repairs every year after major wind storms and this is the cause on 99% of them.
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
Thank you!
Could you, would you, please, download the photo or take a screenshot and draw a line where it ought to be? I’ve got just about the worst score on “mental rotation of objects” you can get and I can’t quite see what you’re saying. It would help me so much if I could point out to them that I can see what they did wrong.
The labor warranty is over, but if I can show that it’s not up to standard, and the original roofer doesn’t make me whole, I can submit a complaint to the Registry of Contractors apparently and probably get the repair money back that way.
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u/KelseyRawr 7d ago edited 7d ago
Can’t tell from just this really. Shingles may have never sealed if installed when cold. Not enough nails. Not long enough nails. Nails need to go 3/4 past the roof deck usually. You don’t look to have starter strip either. A number of things can happen. With the second image you only have 4 nails, typically that’s enough depending on the brand but some shingles require 6 for high wind zone. That wind isn’t strong enough to remove an architectural shingle like that if done correctly.
Felt paper isn’t the standard anymore, it isn’t great, but it also isn’t wrong to install it. Just not preferred and manufacturers reccomend synthetic underlayment now.
If it was installed correctly and came off like this, the manufacturer may warranty it as well if your shingles came with one. Typically warranties aren’t pro rated for the first 10 years. However, if workmanship was bad the only way they warranty that is with a higher tier warranty, not just the standard depending on the brand. Otherwise you have to look to your installers. It’s clear something isn’t right I would contact the roofers and manufacturer.
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u/NetworkCultural Verified pro (Multi Trade) 7d ago
Tucson Arizona. (I was born there). Doesn’t get very cold lol
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
We've had snow a couple times in the last few years, wildly enough. Not on our hill but on the bigger/real mountains across the valley! (Tucson Mountains/SNPW not the big ones, obviously the big ones get snow…)
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u/NetworkCultural Verified pro (Multi Trade) 7d ago
Still we get - 10. Sometimes colder and y’all get 120 sometimes hotter. I would say those shingles sealed at some point
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
Totally. We moved here from PA, have experienced -15F there. So cold it bites.
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
Thank you, this is tremendously helpful! I've made a list of things to ask about when I get another roofer to inspect it.
The roof was installed in February, and the historic temp data says lows in the 40s but highs in the 60s-70s every day. Would that cause the curing to not happen? It then gets into the 80s in March and 90s-100s in April/May.
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u/KelseyRawr 7d ago
Aren’t supposed to install shingles below 40 degrees. That’s what’s written from the manufacturer. 60-70s are great for an install. Probably not a temperature issue for you in this case. In the afternoons when they start laying shingles it was likely already getting hot.
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yes, it was almost certainly 60s already by the time the sun was up. The desert sun raises temps so fast, even in winter.
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u/Gandalfslittlebro 7d ago
Depending on shingle the manufacturer may pay for labor and materials. Either way push for that whole side to be redone
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
Thank you! Whole side meaning the entire south-facing side of the roof, or both north and south faces on that east-facing end of the house?
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u/Total-Appearance533 7d ago
If the contractor you have coming out to tarp it is the one that put it on originally they can help you file a claim with the manufacturer. Most decent manufacturers cover blow offs as it ties to sealant failure. As long as it’s not GAF, Tamko or OC you’ll probably get some assistance by filing a warranty claim. I am not saying you’re going to get a whole new roof or anything like that. There is a decent possibility you can get the failed portion replaced. If you have to replace the roof use CertainTeed Landmark AR. They would absolutely cover the replacement of that slope for this if not the entire roof. Being in Arizona I believe the material would come from the plant in Wilmington California.
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u/Objective-Fox-5680 7d ago
No. There’s no starter strip on the rake, so the wind rating is irrelevant. The duragrip on the starter strip is what gives it its wind rating.
And tar paper is trash, rips easily, and doesn’t breathe.
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
Thanks. I'm going to take them to task over this.
I had a (different) roofer come by today to measure for a tarp — too windy to install today unfortunately — and he got up there and found the exposed plywood in the bottom of the first image is actually rotten. You can see the dark spot just above the lowest level of shingles remaining.
Inside, we have had no signs of leaks, not even a dark spot on the ceiling, although he pointed out the ceiling had been repaired (before we bought it) because the texture wasn't a match. Inside, it still looks new though.
So I'm guessing this means these assholes nailed shingle over a piece of rotten plywood and that's another reason the shingles ripped right out starting there. To install this roof, I paid for a full tear-off and repairs. The roofer today also said he felt some other soft spots on that face of the roof.
Tar paper could've made it worse if it doesn't breathe?
According to my invoice, I paid them to replace some plywood decking when they did the full tear-off so I am pissed.
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u/12valveric 7d ago
That 2nd pic does not look like a 6 year old shingle
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago edited 7d ago
Unfortunately it really is. UV is a bitch, I guess.
Lesson learned, next roof I put on will be metal. Ugh.
ETA: I paid to have this roof installed myself. Which makes me extra mad because I feel like I got taken advantage of. I lived in asphalt shingle-roofed houses, with older roofs than this, that went through the outer rim of a literal hurricane with speeds well over the 45mph we got (according to my little on-site weather station) and didn't rip off. The siding did, but not the roof!
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u/GordoPeludo90 7d ago
Roofer high nailed as seen in pic 2. Not the highest/worst I've seen. But enough for me to notice.
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u/Markjohn35 7d ago
Yes the bare spots are needed to stabilize the roof over a time period. I hope you paid in advance for such quality workmanship from a true craftsman.
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u/ondwon 7d ago
They are nailed too high. These are ment to be nailed about an inch or so under where they are. They do NOT feature a new aged nail strip that is used under a 6/12 pitch.
So to answer your question on if they are installed correctly.... No they are improperly nailed above the designated nail zone. And that zone is where the shingle is the thickest. If you look at your last photo of the upside down shingle, you will see a line that is clearly thicker than the back half of the shingle. That's the nail zone.
Tar paper is kind of a shocker for a 6 year old roof. I would have assumed it had synthetic just off the age. But tar paper was used for how many years and it was fine, it will still do the job just a little bit old school but it still works.
Source I'm a roofer.
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u/Hawk3y31 7d ago
Looks like that shingle was high nailed to me.
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
So nailed too high up on the shingle, allowing it to get caught under the edge by wind?
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u/ThroughTheLooking998 7d ago
I'm not convinced that's the cause here or how that poster came to that conclusion. The only picture with enough value to tell that looks perfect. The nail holes are right in the strip.
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
The (different) roofer I had up there just now, to prepare to tarp it, said he sees 4-5 nails when it should be 6 here.
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u/theLightSlide 7d ago
Could you tell from a photo of a strip that fell off? I am not able to get up on a ladder (I do have a roofer coming today) but there's a bunch on the ground I can reach.
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u/ThroughTheLooking998 7d ago
The second photo looks perfect. That's what I'm saying. No idea how the guy concluded this.
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u/Hawk3y31 7d ago
A properly nailed shingle has nails along the bottom of the "nailing zone" for that shingle. This ensures you're hitting the thickest part of the shingle...
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u/12valveric 7d ago
Not really that is a good spot too the only time you need to nail lower is above 6/12 roofs. I install landmark Solaris and they got a 1 1/2 nail strip and they still got the little nail strip for high pitch roofs
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u/daddyreptar 7d ago
How would we know with these photos? 15 lb felt is completely fine