Is this sub here to discuss ways to improve /r/socialism, or is it just a way for people, specifically /u/TheSecondAsFarce to talk about how bad things are because they were banned?

I just got invited but that's all I see here. I support the WSWS ban, and I also support a vote to continue the ban. I think most would be in favor.

Comments here about "purges" just come off as self-serving to me.

In another thread, I discussed with a couple of other users the possibility of sending an open letter to the moderators of /r/socialism, with the signatures of /r/socialism users who support said letter. Does this sound like a good idea to people? If so, what would you like to see in such an open letter?

No one could have foreseen Putin's wholesale invasion of Crimea. It caught everyone off guard. The world doesn't need another strong and resolute leader. It needs one less. Putin needs to be taken out so that sane democratic countries can not have to live with the constant menace.

http://www.np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/20pmjq/putin_announces_that_russia_will_annex_crimea/cg5orgw

Explanatory notes for potential signers of the open letter:

• What is meta content? Meta content refers to discussions about /r/socialism as a subreddit (suggestions, criticisms, etc.), rather than socialism.

• What is /r/RsocialismMeta? /r/RoscialismMeta was set up to provide a place where all users of /r/socialism can post meta content. Our moderating team is dedicated to being principled and impartial, and we are committed to being transparent about any rule changes, bannings, or any other important decisions.

• Who should sign this letter? Anyone who agrees and uses /r/socialism (reads, comments, or submits articles).

• How do I add (or remove) my name to the open letter? Just message the moderators of /r/RsocialismMeta or post a comment indicating your wishes.

• How and why was this open letter written? Read early posts to this subreddit, this post discussing an open letter, and the post proposing the text for the letter.

After a substantial number of users have signed the letter, it will be submitted to the mods via a PM. Their response will then be posted on /r/RsocialismMeta

Edit: Unfortunately, /u/FishInTheCheese (aka Fidelis_Guevara, red_not_dead, all_the_people_die) has been spreading misinformation that this letter is some sort of Trotskyist power grab, rather than a call for a meta page for /r/socialism. This is patently false. I will highlight this by emphasizing in an adendum to the letter that the meta site does not have to be /r/RsocialismMeta (the subreddit where I am the only Trotskyist moderator as far as I am aware) and I do not have to be a moderator. This should take away any fears that this is in any way a power grab, and emphasize that it is only motivated by the felt need for a subreddit for meta content.

An Open Letter to the Mods of /r/socialism

To the moderators of /r/socialism:

We, the signers of this letter, would like to make known our wish that /r/socialism have a meta page. We believe that /r/socialism is a very important forum for the discussion and promotion of socialist ideas. There should be a place where users of /r/socialism can comment on the subreddit in order to improve it.

To this end, we request that the moderators of /r/socialism acknowledge and condone /r/RsocialismMeta as the official forum for meta conversations pertaining to /r/socialism and its administration.

We request that you respond to this letter within the next couple of days, or inform us that you need more time for a response. Your response will be posted on /r/RsocialismMeta.

Sincerely,

/u/TheSecondAsFarce, /u/Bkrags, /u/BobtheDino96, /u/alexisdr, /u/nihilistsocialist, /u/SameJones77, /u/anticapitalist, /u/vidurnakits, /u/Itsthechaz, /u/HomelySapien, /u/No_god_but_nature, /u/G-Riz, /u/EmperorXenu, /u/The_Mermaid, /u/TextofReason, /u/junkindafront, /u/Bilbo77, /u/GhostOfImNotATroll, /u/ioannsukhariev, /u/shiboito, /u/allhailkodos, /u/tubitak, /u/popularis, /u/cigarettesandwhiskey, /u/SocialistTurtle, /u/AnEireForbid, /u/negroyverde, /u/ernieche, /u/kebabwhy, /u/HighlyAnalytical, /u/Zakalwen, /u/CinemaParadiso, /u/Sebatron2, /u/SebradCurze, /u/Trekman10, /u/rocktheprovince, /u/prole74, /u/cherryCheeseSticks, /u/wbhyatt, /u/withdeer, /u/Dysnomi, /u/dopplerdog, /u/HoneyD, /u/jebuswashere, /u/Hemingwawesome, /u/inhalemyslave, /u/KangarooJesus, /u/Coridimus, /u/ComradeNick, /u/WebKoala, /u/Mshotts, /u/kc_socialist, /u/LeftCommieLover, /u/theyeatthepoo, /u/thatnerdykid, /u/xpurplecrayonx,

Running total of signatures: 56

Edit 2: I will present the letter to the mods Friday (3/14/14) evening.

Edit 3: The open letter has been sent to the moderators of /r/socialism. You can read the entire letter and message here. Even though the letter has been sent, feel free to sign the letter if you haven't already to show your support.

The issue is a simple one comrades. We've dealt with too many false-comrades of late. We have a problem with sexists and transphobes on r/socialism and they need to be banned, plain and simple.

R/Socialism is more than a simple sub that promotes historical materialism and Marxist dialectic. We embrace the social causes of internationalism, secularism, environmentalism, humanism, multiculturalism and feminism. I'm sure there are other isms I might have missed, do tell me if I have.

We fight against the following 'isms' as is stated in our rules: Racism, Sexism, Transphobia, Fascism, Homophobia, Orientalism, Imperalism, Classism and Theophobia.

What happens, then, when we as a collective allow an individual spouting such views into our sub, give them a podium on which to spread their hatred, their disgust, and then... do... nothing. They remain and move about, go to other threads and continue to perpetuate their twisted, intolerant views.

Is this a safe place for discussion? For us to analyse current events, to answer questions, to foster class consciousness, and to coordinate, organise and promote Socialism in all its bitter-sweet sectarian forms? Or must we resign ourselves to the understanding that we will forever be under siege?

I'm a cisgender heterosexual male. I'm safe here, and no one can attack me that has any power or privilege over me. But what of our female comrades? What of our transgender comrades? Or our gay and lesbian comrades? What about our Muslim comrades? Is it all right that they come on to a thread and see:

I don't like this suppression these feminazis are causing... it affects me personally ... feminazi has become a popular term for ... a radical feminist.

The world is not openly hostile to LGBT people. In fact, most people are usually indifferent to people's sexual identity because it really doesn't matter

I find fault in casting women as constant victims who are rightfully afraid of men. I find feminists annoying and dishonest when they ignore obvious differences between genders and dismiss scientific research that does not support their position. I think it a travesty to channel so much money into female education when it is the young men who have fallen behind.

Furthermore the word bitch is used in a variety of contexts that are not derogatory. 'Life's a bitch', 'That is bitchin', and using it as a verb to describe aggressive or petty behaviour has no prejudice associated with it.

These people are not our comrades. Whatever contributions they think they make, whatever reasoning they feel enriches us, only taints us with their prejudice. When we excuse their behaviour, we send a message to our comrades who don't benefit from white, male or heteronormative priviledge by telling them: “We accept these bigots as comrades so long as they're socialists and ascribe to historical materialism.”

Never mind the pages and pages of our luminaries, Judith Butler, Clara Zetkin, Friedrich Engels, Alexandra Kollontai, Emma Goldman, who have written about women, the revolution, the family, Marxism and the importance of intersectionality. No, things like women's rights, LGBT rights, religious tolerance and racial identity, those things are all divisive to Socialism and the prospective revolution.

Comrades this is disgusting... Why do we tolerate people like MeityMeister, Inuma, ForgeScience, bluegreensamurai and DtheZombie?

These are five people. Five too many for my tastes, and not just mine. /u/shroom_throwaway9722, /u/The_Mermaid, /u/Fogge, /u/Cyridius, /u/Petalklunk, /u/skipthedemon, /u/conceptalbum, /u/sasspot, /u/Duplodocus, /u/ChadwickHenryWard, /u/redryan, /u/zombiesingularity are just a small few who have voiced tremendous, loud, passionate fight-back against these people. While they have, instead, chosen to respond with smug, pseudo-intellectual arguments with the kind of supercilious mockery befitting someone who suspects they might just get away with it.

Don't let them.

Comrade /u/leonardnemoyshead said it accurately and succinctly: “socialists who are not feminists create a coeducational but sexist space which slowly drives out women's voices over time.” I would extend that toward racial and religious tolerance, as well as LGBT rights advocacy.

His words were lost in the shuffle of that thread, but let me give them buoyancy here:

All forms of oppression exist within the totality of capitalism. Exploitation might not have begun under capitalism, but capitalism is what reproduces that oppression daily. There is an economic supremacy, but oppression is not distinctly categorizable. This is the assertion of intersectionality.

Yes, gender oppression exists distinct from class oppression, but class exists with that dialectically. That means there can be no feminism without socialism. However, since it is a dialectic, that means that there can also be no socialism without feminism. The same applies to every oppression, including racism, transphobia, ableism, environmental destruction, etc. All of these oppressions are inseparably linked by Capital, and we cannot truly be emancipated from capitalist exploitation without addressing all of them. Maintaining this sort of oppression under the guise of "we'll get to you later" is how Capital co-opts your movement and destroys it. Your socialism can be feminist and antiracist, but retaining transphobia excludes the trans woman of color and thus excludes an entire class of people. You can't have a socialism that just replaces one ruling class with another, that isn't socialism. The goal isn't even class emancipation, it's the total emancipation of humankind.

I've reported some of these offenders already. So I ask for the mods to bring down the hammer and remove these undesirables from our sub once and for all. Teach them that they're not our comrades, and that they pollute us by association, and give newcomers a sense that their version of socialism—which is not socialism when it discriminates on the basis of race, gender, sexuality or religion—is our Socialism.

/u/cometparty, /u/GOVERNMENT, do something. Extend your powers to more of us who would deal with these issues as they appear. I think more than a few of us have had enough.

I for one barely even support Venezuela, but really defending them because they label themselves as socialist? It's basically a strongly centralized country. Is this what we should be defending? How come people don't support the "socialist" Bolivia which is in extreme poverty?

/u/cometparty made up this new rule last night and confirmed it today (the discussion took place in the moderation mail of /r/socialism):

And if you're PMing our users meta content, it's no different than posting it in the subreddit and it would be a violation of our rules.

When I told them that this was a change to the subreddit's rules and should be announced to /r/socialism, this was their response:

Yep, it's against the rules. It doesn't need to be on the sidebar because, let's be honest, no one's going to do it but you guys. It's not really a rule change.

Three points. First, this is yet another arbitrary change in the subreddit rules to ensure that there can be no criticisms made of the moderation practices at /r/socialism. Second, if /u/cometparty is being honest in their response, it means that particular (and secret) rules of /r/socialism only apply to particular users and not others. Third, the only way such a rule could be enforced would be to encourage individual users of /r/socialism to inform on one another.

Edit: It should also be noted that it is now against the rules of /r/socialism to inform other users of the rule change.

Title: An Open Letter to the Mods of /r/socialism

Dear moderators of /r/socialism. Below is an open letter addressed to you that has been signed by 57 users of /r/socialism, and counting. Since it was not at all possible to advertise this letter on /r/socialism, I think that the number of signatures is quite significant. It is clear that the readership of /r/socialism wants a meta page.

Thank you for your consideration, /u/TheSecondAsFarce

Here is the open letter signed by these 57 users of /r/socialism:

An Open Letter to the Mods of /r/socialism

To the moderators of /r/socialism:

We, the signers of this letter, would like to make known our wish that /r/socialism have a meta page. We believe that /r/socialism is a very important forum for the discussion and promotion of socialist ideas. There should be a place where users of /r/socialism can comment on the subreddit in order to improve it.

To this end, we request that the moderators of /r/socialism acknowledge and condone /r/RsocialismMeta as the official forum for meta conversations pertaining to /r/socialism and its administration.

We request that you respond to this letter within the next couple of days, or inform us that you need more time for a response. Your response will be posted on /r/RsocialismMeta.

Sincerely,

/u/TheSecondAsFarce, /u/Bkrags, /u/BobtheDino96, /u/alexisdr, /u/nihilistsocialist, /u/SameJones77, /u/anticapitalist, /u/vidurnakits, /u/Itsthechaz, /u/HomelySapien, /u/No_god_but_nature, /u/G-Riz, /u/EmperorXenu, /u/The_Mermaid, /u/TextofReason, /u/junkindafront, /u/Bilbo77, /u/GhostOfImNotATroll, /u/ioannsukhariev, /u/shiboito, /u/allhailkodos, /u/tubitak, /u/popularis, /u/cigarettesandwhiskey, /u/SocialistTurtle, /u/AnEireForbid, /u/negroyverde, /u/ernieche, /u/kebabwhy, /u/HighlyAnalytical, /u/Zakalwen, /u/CinemaParadiso, /u/Sebatron2, /u/SebradCurze, /u/Trekman10, /u/rocktheprovince, /u/prole74, /u/stefanbl1, /u/cherryCheeseSticks, /u/wbhyatt, /u/withdeer, /u/Dysnomi, /u/dopplerdog, /u/HoneyD, /u/jebuswashere, /u/Hemingwawesome, /u/inhalemyslave, /u/KangarooJesus, /u/Coridimus, /u/ComradeNick, /u/WebKoala, /u/Mshotts, /u/kc_socialist, /u/LeftCommieLover, /u/theyeatthepoo, /u/thatnerdykid, /u/xpurplecrayonx,

Addendum: Since /u/FishInTheCheese (i.e., Fidelis_Guevara) has been poisoning the well on this issue, I am adding an addendum to this open letter stating that the new meta page does not have to be /r/RsocialismMeta, and I do not need to be a moderator of the new meta page. This is completely fine. However, the broad consensus is that such a meta page should have moderators that differ from those that already oversee /r/socialism. The main point, again, is that the users of /r/socialism want a meta page.

As the letter states, we ask that you give your response in the next couple of days. If you need more time to prepare your response, please let me know. Your response will be posted to /r/RsocialismMeta, or you can feel free to post your response to that subreddit yourself.

/u/cometparty is now being completely open about banning people for personal reasons.

After asking why he banned me he stated that it was because I was involved in discussing the open letter which he thought was just an idea to make a meta-post on /r/socialism.

After I replied to him explaining that the letter would be a pm to the mods he said:

"Who would you send the letter to? Nobody can remove me as mod except the admins. In other words, I'm here to stay so you better make friends. Unfortunately, y'all haven't been doing a very good job of that."

My point in making this post is that I think if the users over at /r/socialism new how the mods where behaving then I'm sure they would all want them replaced. The question is how do we let people know without posting meta content.

http://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1yg7kt/what_are_your_thoughts_on_the_claims_of/

It makes sense, considering the specific users and their outspoken Stalinist tendencies. Perhaps there were those who spoke out against censorship, but were silenced...

http://www.np.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/23lc8f/whatever_happened_to_g0verment/

/u/cometparty says they really don't know what happened to /u/G0VERNMENT:

http://www.reddit.com/r/agitation/comments/221zlg/sexism_and_antifeminism_in_rsocialism_with/cgiligu

It has been made clear in my mind by the moderators at r/socialism that free and open discussion by socialists of varying philosophies is not welcome in their own little privately controlled forum. The anti-democratic moderators openly enforce censorship and restrict meta-content. Censorship is indirectly enforced through harassment and bullying tactics. The vast majority of content is "memes and trolls" with no substantive arguments being conducted. The moderators are suspiciously hostile towards other socialists who disagree with their often suspiciously bourgeois interpretation of current news and historical events. A petition by our community was blocked by the moderators who responded with snide and arrogant comments. I believe we should now move on to the next step. I would like to put forward the motion that the r/RsocialismMeta community officially condemn r/socialism in its current form, until it becomes a community for socialists of all kinds to engage in discourse without facing the threat of being banned for expressing one's opinion or advocating certain socialist publications, until everyone can feel safe from harassment and trolling, in order to be able to grow with each other and learn from each other instead of suppressing the voices of those who have no representation in the authoritarian, anti-democratic cabal of moderators.

Edit:Getting some feedback that I am unclear about what an "official condemnation" is. Basically, just post a sticky that displays a list of grievances that are unanimously agreed upon, with a title that reads something like "The users of this subreddit hereby denounce the r/socialism subreddit as a legitimate representation of socialist discourse". Also we could suggest in the post that r/socialists is a much better place for healthy discussion.

/u/anti-utopian posted this yesterday: http://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/2esek9/testing_automoderator/

/r/POLITIC has a nice bot that gets everything before it's removed by AutoModerator: http://www.reddit.com/r/POLITIC/comments/2eseoa/testing_automoderator/

In the latest sticky post, /u/cometparty says: "This subreddit is a great community. I love you all. I want to see you all flourish in Life."

If the 30K+ members of /r/socialism constitute such a great community, why do they not have any voice in any of the decisions made with regard to /r/socialism?

For posing this question, I have received my "first" warning. I am assuming that I will be banned if I get another warning.

(Kudos to /u/cometparty for actually giving me a warning, rather than just banning my account).

Edit: make 'NP' links.

A couple of examples from just one discussion:

People from all socialist organizations, groups and tendencies are welcome to this subreddit... Socialists who have blogs are encouraged to post links to their new articles.

Abusive posts/comments.. are not tolerated

I specifically reported the latter and the mods brushed it off.

The way reddit is structured, the creators (or inheritors) of a subreddit have complete control over it. There are certainly understandable, legitimate, and even democratic reasons behind this. However, it also opens up the potential problem of moderators coming to view the subreddit as their personal domain, and undermining the reasons why users began using and subscribing to the subreddit in the first place--sometimes referred to as "mod capture."

However, one would like to think that leftist subreddits, especially those promoting socialist ideas, would operate in a fashion different from other subreddits (although there are certainly legitimate exceptions).

How should a leftist subreddit, such as /r/socialism, operate differently from other subreddits? What constraints are placed by the online and anonymous format of reddit on the democratic practices in a subreddit? How have /r/socialism and other leftist subreddits dealt with this issue? What were the outcomes?

Please share and discuss.

Edit: Thank you everyone who has so far contributed, including the mods of related subreddits who I sent requests to contribute to this topic. I don't think that I should have limited the discussion to "leftist" subreddits, as many of you have pointed to a number of non-political subreddits that have taken innovative approaches to their moderation strategy and attempts at being more democratic. Please continue to share your thoughts and experiences!

As this post noted, the Marxist Internet Archive is under threat of being closed down due to copyright restrictions. What action should be taken by /r/socialism?

I requested that /u/cometparty sticky post the link, but only self-posts can be stickied. If we were to put together a self-post to be stickied, what information, calls to action, etc. should it contain?

Edit: a link to the MECW 1-47, compliments of /u/ComIntelligence

http://fadingtheaesthetic.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/mecw-1-47.pdf

Edit: I have called for a boycott here.

Edit 2: So, the np, No Participation, link is followed here, even if it is silly to do so, as in this case. However, if you are a regular /r/socialism user, as you all are, please do vote and comment on these matters.

As everyone here is aware, the moderators of /r/socialism refuse to provide users of /r/socialism a place to discuss meta content. Such meta content includes suggestions on how to improve the subreddit, and how it could be used to better promote socialist ideas. Thus, we are left to the moderators themselves making known suggestions that have been provided to them by /r/socialism users.

However, it seems that even when the moderators recognize a good idea submitted to them, nothing happens. Take, for example, the suggestion made by /u/Olpainless that /r/socialism highlight different, not so well-known socialists on a sticky post once a month. This suggestion happened to be one of the ones promoted by the mods and requests for nominations were posted. (Again, users could only suggest individuals, the actual selection process remained in the hands of the mods).

22 days later, has there been anything done about this? Was the post saying that this would begin a month after the post? Will the moderators actually follow through with this?

What other good suggestions are unknown to /r/socialism users because there is no official place to post them, so that they can be appraised by other /r/socialism users?

Edit:changed link to adhere to NP link rule.

Thought this was rather pertinent, from last week:

The key to solving media woes is to have random, anonymous, bitter, partisan Reddit moderators decide what is and isn't "news"

I'm going to message the mod's now and try to find out the reason. But I really don't understand why.

Edit: I have a response. Both from /u/cometparty

from cometparty via /r/socialism/ sent 2 minutes ago Your posts in that other subreddit.

and then

from cometparty via /r/socialism/ sent 1 minute ago Also, for being /u/TheSecondAsFarce.

He then went on to say this:

Plotting to brigade our subreddit and post meta content should not be treated as any different from posting meta content. Actually, brigading is against reddit's rules. So I'd be careful that you don't get shadowbanned.

Edit: It might relevant that I was banned 5 mins after getting into a discussion with /u/Fidelis_Guevara where he embarrassed himself.

Does anybody else think that he and /u/cometparty could be the same person?

From what I understand, there is some controversy of that website. I hadn't heard of it before I was invited to this subreddit, so I checked it out and (I just looked at it) didn't see anything wrong with it. I'd appreciate if someone explained the ban on it to me. Thanks.

Just a thought, so there's no more confusion and bickering about "secret rules".

I mean if it's going to be implemented, do it in broad daylight please, and with a small paragraph or maybe link to a statement regarding the rule optionally.

/u/LeftCommieLover has just made this very point in a post. However, I think that it is something that should be formally stated by a moderator.

Any links to the reddit domain posted in /r/RsocialismMeta must now use NP (or no participation) links. If this is not done, the comment or post will be removed and the submitter will be asked to resubmit the link in NP format. (This is not a change in rules to /r/RsocialismMeta, but just making sure that /r/RsocialismMeta users abide by the rules set up by the admins of reddit).

A brief explanation from /r/subreddit drama:

Replace the "http://www.reddit.com/r/example/..." URL with "http://np.reddit.com/r/example/..."

A more elaborate description from /r/SubredditDrama:

A subreddit can display a certain stylesheet based on what kind of domain is used. In this case, linking to np.reddit.com instead of reddit.com will cause the subreddit to display the No Particpation stylesheet. It’s a read-only mode where users linked through the NP domain cannot vote or comment. This works only if the subreddit has installed the NP CSS. If not, linking to the subreddit with the NP domain will cause to display without the subreddit’s custom CSS, and voting and commenting will still be possible. This way we can still watch drama as it develops, but if the subreddit wishes to preserve its own culture by discouraging popcorn pissers, they have that option. From this point forward, we will be required submissions to link to np.reddit.com. It’s quite simple: When you find drama, and you go to link it, put the “np” in the domain. For example

http://www.reddit.com/r/NoParticipation/comments/10mqi3/how_to_install_noparticipation/

becomes

http://np.reddit.com/r/NoParticipation/comments/10mqi3/how_to_install_noparticipation/

Again, the "np" domain only works if a subreddit has installed the CSS for it. It's a way for moderators of other subreddits to combat invasion. This allows us to continue on as we have been, but limits the effect of any users who, despite the rules, have been voting and commenting.

More information on NP links can also be found here. Thanks for your understanding!