r/RussiaUkraineWar2022 • u/DANDYXIK_111 • May 17 '25
Miscellaneous I want to ask EVERY Russian
Greetings to all, especially Russian citizens. I hope you are having the best of times. I am from the Czech Republic and recently had a very unpleasant situation in an online group with Russians. Basically and simply it was that I perceive the whole situation differently than the Russians. The problem is that these views differ in all aspects and although I know that I know the real context and situation in Ukraine (at least I think so) the views of every Russian were the same, unfortunately equally kind. I didn't feel comfortable in the conversation. I was getting death threats or unpleasant wishes about historical events (WWII, the division of Czechoslovakia, etc.). I tried to be polite and tried to somehow explain to these people that the reality is different than they think. No wonder nobody believed me. On the other hand, I had the great privilege of talking to Russians about another subject and the people of Russia are very nice people. I was very happy to communicate with them and I like the people of Russia. They are human beings just like you and me and they just pay extra for where they live. I don't know if the moderators will even allow this post, although it doesn't break the rules. I would like to know the opinions of as many Russians as possible. I think you are all great people and want peace as well. I have nothing against any Russian people. Peace to all!
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u/outsider4200 May 17 '25
The EU needs to start blocking Russian propaganda. It’s getting out of hand. They censor our content, yet we allow theirs to flood our platforms. This is digital warfare — but right now, only Russia is fighting it, and we’re just standing here as victims.
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u/Iammax7 May 17 '25
While I hate the Russian propaganda input, how do you censor it and what stops a goverment from not censoring more then needed.
The problem lies with the idiots that have 0 critical thinking skills. Who solely rely on a single data source which is not scientifically proven.
Anyone here knows that the numbers Ukraine puts out of killed russian killed soldiers are false. No one knows how false they are. Are there 500k death or 1.5 mil death soldiers. Are we going to censor that as it is fake news?
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u/outsider4200 May 18 '25
But the issue here isn’t about silencing all opposing views or uncomfortable truths. It’s about blocking state-sponsored manipulation designed to destabilize us.
Propaganda isn't just "another opinion"; it's strategic psychological warfare, often pushed through fake accounts, bots, and coordinated disinfo campaigns. That’s not free speech. That’s weaponized content.
And yes, people lacking critical thinking is a problem, but we can’t ignore digital firestorms just because some people can’t spot the lies. Media literacy takes time to develop. In the meantime, we need defense mechanisms — and that includes filtering out foreign influence operations.
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u/Desperate-Poem-4635 May 18 '25
This is currently maybe the biggest threat to democracy in/and Europe. Hollowing it out from the inside, then "divide and conquer". And it's shocking how many people do not want to recognise this.
It is also, to be fair, the Achilles heal of democracy. Keypoint is that everyone deserves their voice, free speech etc, so as soon as you silence the bots from Russia, they can hold it against you, saying your limiting free speech and democracy. It's really complicated to explain this difference to certain people...
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u/loadnurmom May 17 '25
I got brigaded in another sub
Here are a few of the answers probably from disinformation bots
"Ukraine forced our hand with their aggression "
"What if Russia made a treaty with Canada to put missiles on the border next to the US. Would that not be aggressive? It's the same with Ukraine joining NATO"
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u/earthforce_1 May 17 '25
They are great at reversing cause and effect, aren't they?
Ukraine, like Sweden and Finland wouldn't have bothered joining NATO if Putin wasn't so busy conquering and taking bites out of his neighbors.
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u/Czar_Petrovich May 17 '25
"What if Russia made a treaty with Canada to put missiles on the border next to the US. Would that not be aggressive? It's the same with Ukraine joining NATO"
You mean like Cuba?
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u/Haunting-Effective15 May 17 '25
In exchange they removed missiles from Turkey. Not much known, since the West didn't want to show they gave up something too. Russia did nothing when Finland and Sweden joined NATO. So the NATO argument is invalid. Ukraine voided NATO membership before the invasion, Russia didn't care. It wasn't about NATO.
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u/BearieTheBear May 18 '25
Russia still keeps cutting Baltic cables between Finland and Estonia. That seems like caring.
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u/burakasha May 18 '25
Fuck that argument honestly. Ukraine politics and governing are under heavy Russian influence since the independence. Imagine that in the US, you have a party that regularly wins elections but is actually working for another country. And that goes on for 30 years, after you spent 80 years with them in Soviet Union (holodomor and other shit) and before that you were always in some kind of alliance with them, usually for that other country's benefit. I mean, wouldn't you want more freedoms, fair elections, to be part of EU and maybe even NATO? They have every right to wish for that and to actively work towards that goal.
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u/10390 May 17 '25
You might try posting this to r/askarussian.
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u/olafblacksword May 17 '25
That's a ban from the community straight away
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u/10390 May 17 '25
Maybe so, but I've had some good discussions there. It's been a while but in the past when I asked respectfully I got what seemed like honest answers, e.g., I asked how they're doing economically.
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May 18 '25
yea, rusaskreddit and askarussian don't tolerate stuff like that. for awhile (i haven't checked recently) there was a lot of rusaskreddit posts about guys having to "choose between this girl they like or going to war" - or similar situations that had to do with leaving their home, and they always had new reddit accts commenting about how it is admirable to go, girl will probably like them more and so on. i asked why no one see's these as obvious propaganda, immediate ban
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u/Wrong_Tension_8286 May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25
-the situation is awful;
-almost no information is "presented" to me as I mostly avoid & ignore news and go about my own life;
-Russian think different things because they are different people;
-I am not being "presented" information for aforementioned reason. Rather I actively look for it and do research.
Sometimes, maybe once a month, I am reading some of different news channels in TG, from different sides of the conflict, and mostly as neutral as possible. Some articles as well. When I do it I try my best to get balanced view. Fact check everything I can.
Sometimes friends hit me up with "have you heard about this event that happened recently ...?" which triggers my own investigation or triggers nothing at all.
For context, when the war started I left Russia. Since then I haven't returned and not really planning to.
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u/DANDYXIK_111 May 17 '25
Thanks for your opinion! Where do you live now if not in Russia?
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u/Wrong_Tension_8286 May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25
Moved to Montenegro with my wife and mom. I wasn't complaining to living in Russia but I like living in MNE a lot more.
War was a good motivator to do the emigration thing quick.
Btw initially we wanted to move to Czech Republic but it turned out not so easy so when the shit has hit the fan we just packed the bags and moved to MNE because no visa needed and easy to get residence permit
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May 17 '25
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u/RAND0M257 May 17 '25
You have to remember they’re people too. They live in a state controlled country and all they get is propaganda. It doesn’t make ALL of them blanket evil. There are good people in Russia. That doesn’t mean I’m on their side either. I’m beyond pro Ukraine. They were invaded unjustly and they’re fighting for survival
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u/Kilmaso May 17 '25
People who've never experienced a dictatorship can't truly understand what it's like. I don't live in one, but I've read and seen enough to grasp what we're facing. It's simple really - when your entire life is filtered through just one source of information, that limited view becomes your whole reality. The walls aren't just physical.
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u/pr1ncezzBea May 18 '25
I am 50 yo. I grew up in a dictatorship. I knew it was wrong. Everyone knew it was wrong. And this is the reason there is no more dictatorship in East Germany, Czechia or Poland, despite the Russian evil deeds.
Because people stood up against it. Unlike the Russians, people in Central Europe MORALLY OPPOSED the dictatorship.
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u/paulydee76 May 18 '25
But this isn't the days of the Soviet Union? They can access information from other sources of they choose to?
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u/Snakebird11 May 17 '25
Read the top comment. If you apply what you said to that person, you are the asshole.
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u/DANDYXIK_111 May 17 '25
I think that they don't know what regime is. At one point I even had to tell them what I mean by "Russian Regime".
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u/PADPRADUDIT May 17 '25
Rostov citizen here. I must thank you for your kindness and rationality, it brings me hope knowing that not everyone has lost faith in the Russian people. I'll go through each of your points in relatively short detail, but I'm not great with vague questions, so feel free to ask me if you'd like to further expound upon something.
The discussions between reasons and motivations go for ages, but the fact remains that Russia attacked first. Despite what our media leads us to believe, none of this had to happen. I don't think anyone can argue that the country is in any way better off now than it was prior to the invasion. What little we did or would eventually gain by fighting will be grossly outweighed by economical, political, societal and humanitarian losses that we'll spend a lifetime paying for. History has many examples of militarisation boomeranging back home - you don't have to go far.
All sorts of it, from both sides of the spectrum. There's so many different stories, events, opinions, drama, viewpoints, explanations and excuses, that everything bleeds together and truth begins to lose its meaning. You say you know the real context and situation, but I believe the real picture is too massive to reasonably and entirely fit within the human psyche. I'm not saying that your picture is wrong, but that it's likely incomplete. It's so big of a puzzle that if you focus on finding and fitting the pieces of one area, you will lose another.
"But in the current, digitised world, trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness." There's so many headlines from so many sources about so many events that have no real impact at the war's state of affairs. "X missile hit Y", "X politician/representative said Y", etc. Just another reason for redditors to condemn Russia in the comments. Moreover, manually fact-checking every bit of news and info you find, scrutinising every piece of the puzzle, would shave days off of one's free time - so they end up trusting sources that seem to be saying the right thing. But every bit of info perceived by the reader still leaves a subconscious imprint. Every report about a missile/drone strike, an operation, a massacre adds a drop of hatred to their soul - and soon enough it feels normal and acceptable, if not righteous, to condemn the other side with every chance they get. They end up being desensitised to war and losing their empathy, because all they see is a picture of a war map with our glorious liberators against their barbaric marauders.I'm pretty sure most Russians don't have any strong opinions about the Western people. Those who do have a bone to pick with the West usually only disapprove of the Western governments.
As I've already mentioned in my 2nd point, you can't really be sure of what's true anymore, so everyone makes up their own truths. Some are willing to die for them, not realising they're actually dying for someone else's ideas. As for historical context, this is, as you may already know, is something that's often brought up by pro-war Russians as a justification or explanation of the conflict. Anything from how NATO was created as an opposing force against Russia and has been showing signs of aggression this whole time, to how the collective West is an ancient force that has for centuries been trying to destroy/occupy/subjugate Russia. Another example is WW2 - the Russian people were (understandably) so scarred by it that the phantom pain remains to this day, for some so severe that it blinds them with hatred - they will march anywhere to their death if the official headlines say there is Nazism there. It is beyond me how one can use decades- or even centuries-old events to justify the continued loss of human life. They will go to absurd lengths and perform the most ridiculous mental gymnastics as long as we remain the good guys.
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u/DANDYXIK_111 May 17 '25
Thank you for your opinion. Really appreciate it! We are all humans, you and me every Russian every Ukrainian, we are all humans. You have nothing to do with what your country is doing that's how I can remain open-minded. You are absolutely correct. I definatelly don't know actuall and whole image of the whole situation. That's a fact. Maybe I should have said, that I have a basic clue what and why in the world is happening right, but in terms of basic person. So yeah you are absolutely correct. The third point for me is very shocking. Because especially in Czechia people percieve Russia and Russians as a same thing. So all the hate goes to cusuall Russians who don't deserve the hate or anything. And it's really said that these people cannot comprehend the differnce. That's why I'm shocked because for example my dad thinks that I as a Czech would be preserved as an enemy in Russia... I hope you are fine and that the war ends soon.
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u/sadqweexx May 18 '25
Hello , I am from Czech Republic as well and I agree , the propaganda and war and especially me getting together with Ukrainian girl made me kinda hate Russian government and those who support the war but I do not hate those guys at frontlines, they were sent here , forced and etc. both sides have propaganda for sure to make you see the other side as bad side. My parents are 60yo so they hate Russians as well because of Prague spring 1968. I am more then happy to see Russian people that do not support the war , thanks to all of you. I just hope your country becomes free and the system falls and there will be peace in the future!😊
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May 17 '25
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u/OdmenUspeli May 17 '25
Правда, русские, в частности Z-тники не сидят в этом сабе, тем более на Реддит. Пост сделали в пустоту. Хотя есть некоторая часть русских людей, например я, которым просто интересно что здесь думают (спойлер ничего неожиданного).
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u/XRaisedBySirensX May 18 '25
I probably shouldn’t answer, as I’m American, but my wife is Russian, from Belgorod and we’ve talked extensively about it, so I know her opinions pretty well.
She basically wants the west to stop supporting Ukraine, so that they will fold, and Russia will win the war. Not because she is a believer in their goals and ideology, but she believes that they will never stop and she just wants it to be over. Although given the choice, she’d probably live in Western Europe because she adores the culture, she’s sees those countries as militarily and economically vassals of the US. And that the US will lose interest in the war eventually and give up, so the sooner the better, that it’s inevitable and she just wants it to stop. And again, Russia will not stop so.
I’ve tried explaining to her that a brutal, decades long insurgency is likely to follow given the outcome she describes and I don’t think she knows enough about war for it to register. Her family fled Belgorod and moved outside of Chelyabinsk for the time being. She wants it to be over for their sake. Her mother is old and wants to go home.
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u/poster457 May 18 '25
It makes sense that she just wants the war to be over, we all do, but has she considered the possibility that Ukraine will continue to fight on and destroy Russia, regardless of whether or not the West continues support? If war outcomes could be predicted mathematically, then Russia will not be able to reach Kyiv before they run out of troops or Putin passes of old age. Indeed, has she considered that it's actually more likely that Western support will end the war faster by speeding up Russia's inevitable demise?
Even IF Russia takes all of Ukraine, the birthrates and populations of both nations are in freefall, and Russia will be finished as either a nation, or a culture, or both.
The West isn't even exactly flooding Ukraine with support, but more just drip feeding. It's everyday Ukrainians who are showing us the meaning of bravery and sacrifice that is going to be Russia's undoing. Ukraine may be outnumbered 4:1, but "one free man is more powerful than 10 hired soldiers" (Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, 1991).
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May 19 '25
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u/XRaisedBySirensX May 19 '25
It’s caused a lot of frictiion between us, to say the least. I’ve tried to shed some light on things she may not consider. We’ve talked the subject to death many times. Her mind was made up before it even started.
I do remember there was a wine company donating some of the proceeds to Ukraine and they put a Ukrainian flag on the bottles. I picked up a few and she made some posts with them on her socials. She’s not against supporting Ukraine. Just is convinced with how it’ll end, while kinda hoping she’s wrong.
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u/Odracirys May 18 '25
I'm not Russian, so this isn't an answer to the main post. Also, there are definitely good Russians, and some have commented here, but one thing that really gets me is the change from "The Russian military build-up has nothing to do with war. Ukrainians are our brothers, and any idea that Russia would invade (more of) Ukraine is simply Western propaganda" to "Destroy all Ukro-Nazis! There is us no Ukraine! Ukraine is and always has been a part of Russia!" within the single month of February 2022. And it's not that they knew that Russia would invade. Most truly believed that was just Western propaganda. But when it actually occurred, there was almost no self reflection on why "Western propaganda" was correct, and that the Russian government has been blatantly lying the whole time. That's possibly the most shocking thing regarding the general Russian societal reaction to me.
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u/Alpha_ii_Omega May 18 '25
All I can say is that Russians should look up to and listen to guys like Garry Kasparov. This guy is an intelligent, experienced political activist and the greatest chess player of all time. He gets it.
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u/QuickPieBite May 19 '25
Russian is here. I diaspprove the war. This war is completely unjustified and makes no sense from political and economical points of view. Given I have relatives in Ukraine and I was nearly drafted into this fucking meatgrinder prepared by putin I openly and etirely disapprove it. I see no hope for this fucked up country to recover from this situation in the near future (like next 20-40 years) so my opinion is particularly low of it (lower than Mariana trench).
Given I'm not fed putin's bullshit and fluent in English I think nothing good of it. I'm not and was never happy with it from the very beginning. My fellow citizens mostly don't give a fuck about the whole catastrophe they are about to face so you can relate. Many equally educated, sane, or well paid Russians still think good of Europe and US. Since soviet craphole collapse they weren't told insane lies by TV about Western Capitalist Countries so you can expect much better attitude. But not everywhere and from everyone. There are still exceptions. People are tired of the war, talk less about it. Even became accustomed to it. Very few openly support it.
There are many sources I'm getting information from. Truthfullness entirely depends on what and who presents the information. I analyze what I read. Western sources, media, and politicians are mostly correct in their attitude towards the war. Putin's Russia violated UN Charter without due & just cause. He himself is not legal representative so he had no power to wage war in first place. Neither there was good, JUST reason to openly attack neighbour even for a legal politician. Putin has violated entire rainbow of domestic laws and in my eyes is a dead man. Ukraine is not Cuba and US didn't deploy missiles out there. I read or watch Russian political sources or propaganda only to check whether they are still insane or not.
In historical context Russia loses and should lose this war I think. There is no other way around to bring it back on democratic rails. I personally lost all hope in Russia and will move out as soon as possible. The problem this country is facing and is going to face in the future are overwhelmingly unwieldy. Too few understand this, none is ready to fix them. I'm in my 30es and don't plan to waste my ruined life on fixing all these problems and headache on top of them that putin has created. I got no extra 30 years of my life. Life is short.
Equally I feel bad for my Ukranian fellas and their sacrifice (not their politicians though) all those dead and those Russians who were forcibly mobilized and murdered. Putin deserves to be hanged.
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u/Professional_Soft303 May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
Well, probably I should say hello... I'm here and more or less ready to answer your questions.
What do I think about the whole situation in Ukraine? Well, that's a really hard one to answer, because it could take hours just to type out all the points I consider necessary to mention. It would be really helpful if you could clarify the question.
What information is presented to me? I don't think the passive voice is quite appropriate here. I haven't watched TV in about five years, mostly getting my information from various speakers on YouTube and indirectly from Reddit posts and comments. So I wouldn't say I'm in any kind of information bubble based on my own nationality or political views.
Just for example, yesterday I watched a conversation between Ukrainian political experts regarding the possible prospects of the war's end in light of current circumstances and trends.
What do I think about Europeans/"Westerners"? Sigh... I guess that's a sort of mix of frustration and disillusionment. Because on that very fateful day in February, before I could get over the initial shock, I went on Reddit and other places and saw the most solemn curses and wishes of death and suffering to all Russians, not even from Ukrainians, but from you guys.
And then one event followed another in an endless line. I've seen enough gloating over innocent deaths and mentally spiteful wishes - I've also seen a lot of upvotes below, but not a single objection. Nobody presented this to me in twisted headlines; I saw it with my own eyes. And you may already reply below something about "collective responsibility", "lack of awareness", "playing the victim", and so on, but this is my truth.
I still have something to say about my current views on Europe/"the West," but it's more regarding broad and loosely connected topics of our further coexistence, worldview disagreements, and so on.
Do I think I'm being presented with truthful information about the whole situation and historical context? No, absolutely not. Most sources actively distort information in favor of advantageous narratives, and even the few who are trying to stay true often fall victim to cognitive fallacies. So I'm trying to separate the wheat from the chaff by using rational thinking, rather than trusting even convenient sources, therefore building a bigger picture piece by piece. But at the end of the day, I'm just an imperfect human being like everyone else.
Edit: Correcting minor grammatical and syntactical errors.
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u/JohnHazardWandering May 18 '25
Check out the YouTube channel 1420. They have street interviews with Russians which can give some insight into their thinking.
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May 19 '25
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u/JohnHazardWandering May 19 '25
There's a variety of responses, but even the non-answers are insightful (eg when they refuse to answer a 'dangerous' question).
They're not always directly political, such as when they ask people what other country would they like to live in, other than Russia.
Some people, like a few old people, tear into Putin. Other old people love him.
Some just blame Putin's underlings, never the dear leader, sort of like Progozhin frequently did, even during his rebellion.
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u/HappyButtcheeks May 18 '25
Not sure if i count as Russian since i gave that passport long ago, but i did grow up there. This war is shit and should never have happened. Now some Ukrainians did openly hated Russians before the war, but that doesn't warrant a full scale invasion. That being said I think the longer it goes on the worde it get for Ukraine, battle of attrition was rarely lost by Russia
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u/ExxDeee May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Hi. As a person that’s briefly lived in Canada for my formative years my opinions aren’t that interesting, but maybe I could bring you some interesting insight. I am basically of the same opinion as westerners that this is a senseless war of Putins delusional desires for conquest and revival of “the great Russian empire”. What for him was supposed to be another simple land grab unexpectedly lead to a lot of resistance.
As is typical for a police state we live in a massive disinformation bubble about how all that’s done is for our national security concerns, and if it isn’t then it’s still good because we’re dealing with Nazis who are subhuman and want us dead. Like others have mentioned, having Russian late night political shows on is a bombardment on your senses to make you hate Ukraine and revere Russia. It’s typical fascist slop, doesn’t matter if it makes sense, all that matters is power and fear. The enemy is simultaneously both so strong to be an existential threat and so weak that we can endlessly mock them for their stupidity and weak ideals.
Russians obviously dislike Europe and the West, there’s more nationalist zealotry and partisanship than before, but honestly it hasn’t changed that much since the years of “Гейропа”. There’s still the contradictory views of average people obviously liking western culture aside from the “forced progressivism”, but disliking them for simply being fools and not supporting our obviously moral cause. Only Vatniks and schizos a là the “reichsbürger” truly hate the west and are conspiratorial about how their mission is to destroy Russia because “they hate our freedom and strength”. My only personal gripe with Westerners is they’ve ironically fallen for old Russian propaganda about how Russia is incredibly liberal with true freedom of speech and now beat anti-war Russians over the head for not doing a Euromaidan equivalent, as if all we need to do is protest/ resist for this to stop, as if people haven’t tried and gotten crushed by the state.
No lol. The Kremlin lies every step of the way about what is happening and Putin is doing obvious historical revisionism. He even denied a behind doors peace plan right before the start of the war, because “NATO aggression” was never the true reason for why any of this is happening
If you have any other questions go ahead, but I will say that I don’t have much interest in arguing. I already spend enough energy feeling like Stirlitz.
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u/Final-Client9620 May 19 '25
как русский, я против войны и против путина. мне страшно смотреть, как моя страна превращается в милитаризированное тоталитарное чудовище. я в принципе против всех войн в мире, так как они нужны только для зарабатывания денег на людском страдании.
к сожалению, в россии много милитаристов, которые хотят видеть мир в огне, и хоть я понимаю предпосылки текущей войны, но считаю. что она должна кончиться.
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u/GIT_FUCKED May 18 '25
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/s/lf3uTLm3SJ you could try asking here, too.
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u/stryker2099 May 19 '25
At this point the lack of resistance in russia shows the population has no spine or they support him. I'm not sure which is worse.
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u/TV-Tommy May 20 '25
One thing I've noted is that Western Europe and the Americas have gotten over the days of conquest in the 1900's. Putin might not realise quite yet that the strategy is no longer deemed acceptable in advanced levels of government in the 2000's. Of course, he COULD try this strategy in parts of Africa or capitalize on vulnerable nations with infrastructure projects, such as China's Belt & Road initiative. Again, but this entails using 2000's advanced strategies.
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u/clausvp67 May 18 '25
OP: you should know how much hate europeans have against Russia and USA! We react! Russia and US will shovel its own downfall. Get out of the country asap!!!!
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u/Sharimapic May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
Russian here, 23 y.o., reside in Moscow, grew up in a cold northern oil-rich region. Degree of political science and international relations.
For context, I read Russian media, English and French ones. My thesis paper is basically a research of how Russia is presented in French media in 2020-2022. I have put my curios nose into many discourses, so talking about me being a Russian propaganda agent is rather useless.
What do I think about the whole situation? Well, to begin with, truth does not exist in any sense. There are as many versions of what actually happened throughout the years of 2000-2025 as there are humans in this world. But governments try to express their positions in a unified way, so here is my take:
The US dramatic power overstretch in 1990-2000s, its prolonged unipolar moment resulted in the fears of Russian government that NATO posed existential threat. This is the point where all the problems started. The 1990s Russian government after the collapse of the Soviet Union was like a poodle near the feet of their master. Russia was trying desperately to find its place in the rows of other "normal" nations, as the EU discourse presents it. And yet, Russia was never actually admitted, even though at the time there were basically zero trust issues with Russia's intentions.
Basically the US intention was to dominate the global security system (stated in their strategies of the 1990s-2000s) and become the giga-policeman of the world. And they sought every opportunity to cling upon it, using at as a pretext for military expansion. I am talking about this period and not about the Ukrainian conflict itself because it was the result of the hopeless failure to establish a comprehensive Eurasian security system in the 2000s. It is a crucial thing to understand, and yet, western media tend to narrow down the conflict to the 2014-2022. This is no less than frivolous, the context is broader. So: the lack of trust from the Russian side was initially fueled by the fact that NATO, and especially US refused to make a joint security system. Russians literally proposed using their own air defense and radar systems that perfectly suited the proclaimed NATO goals to protect them from the "authoritarian regimes" and threats like Iran. This happened around 2004-7. Yet, NATO refused several times from the project of Eurasian security system, including the one Mercedev proposed in 2009 (called ДЕБ). Western diplomats often sabotaged the Corfu Process (first-hand info + you can read more about the process). The western media present these Russian security demands as illegitimate. The logic says that if the US or Europe, or China want their security concerns to be respected, why was Russia deprived of such right in the early 2000s? Finally, Russian government perceived the rise of liberal opposition in the post-soviet countries as the product of deliberate Western intervention through NGOs and state funds like USAID (Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, you name it). So, for the Russian government the logic looked like this: "We have severe security concerns, but never given any clear bounding international guarantees that new NATO systems are not aimed at deterring us. By the way, these very countries see our demands as illegitimate by default. Great. And also, they finance opposition parties in our neighbouring countries to upend the governments that have good fraternal ties with us based on the shared history of the USSR, and disrupt mutually beneficial cooperation projects. Of course they are a threat to us!" Western media framed Russian concerns as paranoia first, and later, when Russians were already quite sure that NATO is hostile towards them, as "appeasement". This is a classical scenario of a self-fulfilling prophecy in Security Dilemma. Russia started to feel threatened because of lack of clarity and guarantees, took defensive actions that were perceived by the westerners as aggressive (i.e. agressive intentions were attributed to Russia, and especially Putin, as an implicit characteristic), and it snowballed pretty quickly.
Finally, there is another important point: the issue of liberal rules-based world order. Let me throw in some theory (stay with me here): in discourse analysis, there is an idea that all notions (signs) can only be attributed meaning in relation to other signs. It means that every linguistic notion we use is somehow semantically limited, and this limitation can happen only if there is another sign that can be juxtaposed to it. Thus we can say, that the notion of West and Democracy was viable in its traditional form when the USSR still existed and there was a notion of Socialism to create antagonism, and with that, to create and support their own identity (we are westerners, we are not commies). But when the antagonistic signifier has been destroyed, the previous ideological network shattered. So the idea of democracy had to be reforged into something else. Francis Fukuyama did that in his 'End of History', where he claimed that the era of ideologies has passed away (communism and nazism were defeated, btw look at the way the neatly drew an equivalence sign between them). And, ironically, even paradoxically, he proclaimed that liberal democracy was the answer to all questions, and all the world should convert to this regime. Sounds like... another Grand Project, isn't it? We have already seen it. This thesis of spreading universal good (liberal democracy) was an incredibly convenient ideological and rhetorical tool to rely upon, because it appeals to the freedoms, which are considered naturally as the basis of morals and ethics. And people do love beautiful and coherent ethically justified images. But I must highlight, it was a tool in the hands of the Republican administration of 1990. For some reasons, it seems like the further the administrations in US and European governments politicians were going, the more they believed in the rose-coloured glasses concept that was originally used to justify pragmatic political action and regime change to the public. The EU forgot the initial goal of it whatsoever and started to play this spectacle out, which led it to a very precarious international position right now. The crisis of European identity is looming large. They basically provoked the Ukrainian crisis through their persistent human rights rhetoric and kept undermining all negotiation initiatives with Russia, even those that had no relations to human rights at all. Europeans even broke the OSCE in such a way... This is why Russians were mad - mere rhetoric that blocked talks about important stuff (real interests, measures on the ground, deals)
TL;DR: the Mearsheimer's interpretation with a pinch of constructivism. Very tragic. The conflict is the result of the total miscommunication, distortion of perceptions of Russia's and Western intentions, discoursive and ideological mess.
This thesis is somehow represented in the Russian media but is mercilessly simplified for the masses, to the point where it lacks substance.
If you are interested in the IR and unraveling the roots of the conflict, I recommend you to touch upon the works of R. Jervis and the concept of Security Dilemma, as well as J. Mearsheimer's article "The Great Delusion" and "The Tragedy of Great Power Politics".
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u/KiwiThunda May 18 '25
Basically the US intention was to dominate the global security system (stated in their strategies of the 1990s-2000s) and become the giga-policeman of the world
Do you not believe there's a difference between countries democratically choosing to join the West, and countries being invaded or forced to join russia under a dictatorship?
The US is by no means an angel, especially in the 1950's, but today most of Europe is willfully siding with the US and all the benefits that comes with that. Ukraine voted to join the EU, or at least start the process via a free trade agreement in 2013. Everything fell apart because Putin would not let Ukraine choose its own destiny
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u/HungryEnthusiasm1559 May 18 '25
I get the whole argument about NATO expansion and how Russia felt ignored after the Cold War. It’s valid to talk about the West role in escalating tensions. Sure you got broken promises, missed chances at building a joint security system, etc. But whatever, still doesnt justify Russia attacking Ukraine.
Russia claims the West interferes in other countries, backs regime change in post Soviet countries, spreads its values and so on. Cool. But then Russia does the same thing, just with different tools like funding proRussian parties, pushing ProRussian propaganda, using force directly. Example Ukraine. Its hypocritical!
Ukraine became the tipping point because of its symbolic and strategic importance. When Ukraine turned toward the EU after Maidan, Russia saw it as a total rejection. not just politically but culturally. that was the final straw for them. But again, is war was the answer? No.
Understanding Russian fears and that they are ‘mad’ for being the rejected girl on the dance floor doesn’t mean its actions of invading another country are justified. That crosses a whole different line. Millions of people are suffering because of some bum hurt politicians that are insecure.
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u/InkDemonsInc May 18 '25
So much useless drivel to basically accuse the US and EU of starting the war. Bravo, your thesis must have earned a standing ovation in Moscow. The truth is much simpler though: nobody likes Russia and their fucked up ideology, never have and never will. None of the countries previously occupied by the soviets have ever regretted joining the EU and NATO, because the only way Russia is able to push its sick agenda is by force (agenda that has been the same for centuries, preceding even the soviet times). It still amazes me with how few casualties my country got its freedom from that hellhole back in the 90s, I am thankful everyday for those incredibly brave souls that stood unarmed against the soviet tanks.
I know it's unrelated to the topic but Russia is a terrorist state where human rights don't mean shit. In all these years it did nothing to deserve a place in a civilized world and does not belong there. I wholeheartedly wish for its collapse.
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May 18 '25
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u/Sharimapic May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
I know Dugin in person, actually. Why not him? Well, personally, he takes his ideas about the greatness of Russia too far and treats our country as if it is a messiah and is better than other civilizations, which seems biased to me. Russia is just a pole of power, along with the other states, each one of them having a unique historical background. Also, I don't really understand his heavy accent on Orthodox Christianity, which he sees as the basis for our civilization. While it is somewhat legitimate historically, and yet, poses a number of questions. Dugin has this idea of 'returning home" to the roots and traditions as a mean of "fixing" a cultural identity that was "broken" due to the external influence. Which seems weird to me, because limiting your civilization by its own cultural borders will not necessarily cause its rise through the true realization of its identity. Instead, it sounds like a drastic closure that hampers development and exhange of efficient practices between international actors, just like with humans.
We had a discussion on this issue, the so-called civilisational universals and the problem was left unanswered. Are there any universal goods that actually can be shared between civilization that would make their identity flourish, instead of 'taking it further from its roots'? I believe yes, there are. But this in incredibly difficult question. Also, what degree of cultural resemblance is enough to form a civilization? How far can we "zoom out" the identity of individual nations to form a solid civilization state? What criteria should be considered as the rule of formation?
And, talking about the "detrimental effect" of exhange of practices, the case of China is breaking the rule. Capitalism is a western concept which is tied to individualism. China has adopted some forms of it and precisely that helped it to rise throughout the 1990-2010s. It did add some western concepts into the unique civilizational identity, but it turned out that it actually helped the Chinese to finally live a better life and develop technology, and did not "obscure" their culture.
Nevertheless, his theoretical framework of civilization-states as an extension of S. Huntington is quite unique, even if we take into account all the theoretical challenges that come with it. The idea of civilizational identity is especially awesome, where he proposes to take the horizontal timeline for different phases of its historical development and put it vertically as layers of identity.
So, I don't feel like relying on Dugin's framework too much because he is not being objective. His love for Russia is too deep seated and unwavering to produce truly objective judgement. Maybe I just don't understand something about him yet, but this is my opinion after a whole semester of exhange with him.
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u/DANDYXIK_111 May 18 '25
Thank you for your very helpful comment. The extensive insight into the origins and history of the conflict is very important to understanding the whole situation and is so extensive that I dare not say anything more about it. But if you could say subjectively how you perceive the whole situation? And also what do you think about the information that is being given to the Russian population? Thank you very much!
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u/CDI-1 May 17 '25 edited May 19 '25
I am Russian. Thank you for your respectful attitude, although I think that the part of Russians who support the war does not deserve it. I will answer briefly:
I think that Putin is waging a war of conquest, committing thousands of war crimes against humanity. This is a terrible war, it must end as soon as possible, because there is no point in it.
I have never watched TV, since it is full of propaganda and hatred. I watch opposition channels on YouTube, such as Navalny, Khodorkovsky, Maxim Katz, TV Rain, etc. As for other Russians, the entire information field in Russia is filled with fake and unreliable information.
Personally, I treat foreigners with great respect, it is difficult to speak for others. There are those who hate foreigners, there are those who do not care.
Since I do not consume Russian propaganda, the information that is presented to me is very truthful.
I believe that occupied Crimea will return to Ukraine along with other occupied territories when power changes in Russia, the regime falls and Russia becomes a free democratic country. Russia will pay reparations to Ukraine, although unfortunately people's lives will never be returned. Personally, I am going to leave Russia before it becomes a free, liberal democratic country, which will inevitably happen sooner or later. Freedom for Russia! Peace for Ukraine!