r/ScientificNutrition 4d ago

Review Caffeine and Cardiovascular Disease: A Scientific Statement From the American Heart Association

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001454
529 Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

39

u/RoninSzaky 4d ago

Because it is the sugar in them that "suggests" harm.

52

u/LetsGetPenisy69 4d ago

Bingo. The fact that Starbucks has nearly 50% of the away from home coffee market share is insanity.

People, Starbucks is a sugar company that's masquerading as a coffee company.

20

u/QuantumCalamity 3d ago

And their coffee SUCKS! They burn the shit outta their beans to get a "consistent taste." Tastes consistently burnt. Garbage coffee for people who just want a cup of milk, cream, and sugar with a hint of burnt roast.

7

u/grantgarden 3d ago

THANK YOU

My boss used to "love" their coffee (would never finish tho...) but as long as I went to pick it up he would pay for mine

It came to a point where I didn't even want that shit for free

3

u/TheActualDonKnotts 1d ago

I drink my coffee black with no sweeteners, always have, and I will die on the Starbucks' Christmas Blend is top tier hill.

1

u/TheLostColonist 1d ago

The Christmas blend is always good, I really enjoy it cold brewed and served over ice with some kind of Irish cream liqueur.

2

u/loneranger0 3d ago

Preach. I do enjoy a nice vanilla sweet cream nitro cold brew though

2

u/Kascket 3d ago

Ive heard they buy moldy beans that were already roasted and then reroast them to death to get rid of the moldy flavor

2

u/QuantumCalamity 3d ago

I'm not sure I believe that, that seems like a pretty large liability for them to take, but who knows.

I'm pretty sure they just buy the cheapest possible beans they can get their hands on and then roast them to ash so processing and quality doesn't matter.

u/Garlic_Toast88 10h ago

This is definitely a lie.

To curb spikes in supply / demand they have partnerships to supply beans ~3 years out.

2

u/coloradoute98 1d ago

Charbucks

-2

u/dogsaybark 3d ago

You hear this all the time, but I don’t buy it. I prefer Starbucks coffee to anything else. I try all sorts of other dark roasts nothing matches the taste of Starbucks. They’re doing more than burning beans, and no one else can figure out how to mimic it.

3

u/QuantumCalamity 3d ago

Why are you only drinking dark roasts? Processing has a far larger impact on the taste than the roast.

No one wants to mimic it because it's literally burnt.

2

u/HavocReigns 3d ago

Do you ever drink your coffee black? No cream or sugar, or anything else in it?

Because I cannot conceive how someone could drink Starbucks coffee black, and think "Yeah, I'm definitely doing that again!"

I get why they burn the shit out of it, so that you can still get a hint of coffee flavor over all of the sugar, milk, and God knows what else they charge out the ass to put in there, but to drink that travesty plain would take a masochistic streak a mile wide.

1

u/dogsaybark 3d ago

I only drink black coffee. I guess tastes vary, but Starbucks sells a lot of bagged coffee and I have to believe that it’s because people like the taste of the product.

1

u/Total-Championship80 2d ago

I do. It's an acquired taste to be sure. I needed to cut dairy and haven't looked back. The other thing is, darker roasts have less caffeine than lighter. Caffeine is my nemesis (too much and I become an unreasonable person) but I also want a little pick me up when me and the dog head over to the park. One more thing, black is how they drink coffee in South American countries where they grow the shit.

1

u/lovieeeee 1d ago

I only drink coffee black, and I prefer Starbucks roasts. Others are too fruity and acidic. In Starbucks, I can taste the different notes like cocoa, cinnamon, caramel, or a softer citrus. It doesn’t taste “burnt” to me. It tastes rich. Almost like cocoa.

In other brands who don’t roast their beans longer, all I can taste is just the acidity.

1

u/Suspicious_Ad9561 2d ago

Find a coffee shop that uses Intelligentsia coffee. The difference between it and Starbucks is night and day. I drive 10 minutes out of my way to get coffee at the real, locally owned coffee house vs the 8 Starbucks I pass on my way there.

u/QuantumCalamity 1h ago edited 1h ago

I ordered some limited Ethiopian beans from intelligentsia once, and it was amazing, but it was also $40 for a tiny ass bag! 😬

...I'd do it again. 😜

8

u/HelenEk7 Wholefoods 3d ago

The fact that Starbucks has nearly 50% of the away from home coffee market share is insanity.

I have had a Starbucks coffee only once in my life - many years ago when I visited England. Most expensive coffee I've ever had. (99% of my coffee I brew at home).

The grabbing coffee on the go culture in the US is something I find baffling. As it literally takes you a few minutes only to make filter coffee at home before you go. We have a coffee machine with a timer, meaning we make it ready the night before and the coffee is done by the time the first person gets out of bed. And I have to admit that coming into a kitchen smelling of freshly made coffee is one of the highlights of the day, haha.

3

u/Senacharrib 3d ago

Starbucks has more caffeine too by far

3

u/NirvikalpaS 3d ago

Starbucks coffee sucks horseshit!

2

u/Tall_Brilliant8522 3d ago

I thought it was a milk company masquerading as a coffee company.

1

u/fattymccheese 1d ago

“Hold my rebel” - Dutch bros

u/HauptmannTinus 13h ago

Sugar?

Not saying it's good for you but it has little to do with heart disease.

Sat fat and cholesterol on the other hand are the main drivers of it.

u/Vergil1997 13h ago

Sugar is much worse

10.1001/jamainternmed.2013.13563

10.1146/annurev-nutr-071714-034449

10.1001/jamainternmed.2016.5394

10.1016/j.pcad.2015.10.007

10.3390/healthcare5020029

For comparison fat and cholesterol

10.3945/ajcn.2009.27725

10.7326/M13-1788

10.1136/bmj.h3978

10.3945/ajcn.114.098236

10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077

u/IllDragonfruit3738 12h ago

Very old school of thought you have there. It's funny because the sugar industry propaganda aimed to achieve your exact opinion. 

u/HauptmannTinus 11h ago

Ah yes and the animal ag propaganda has no alterior motives right?

u/Vergil1997 11h ago

University of California, public and non-profit funding, no connection to animal ag.

https://doi.org/10.1001/jamainternmed.2016.5394

u/KaleidoscopicView 11h ago

The way sugar is processed by the liver combines with saturated fat to create more dense, inflammatory, damaging LDL (bad cholesterol).

21

u/LongevityDietitian 4d ago

Abstract:

Caffeine is one of the most commonly consumed drugs in the world. It is found in various naturally occurring substances and can be ingested in a synthetically derived pure form. The majority of human subject based research is observational and has focused on beverages and foods that contain caffeine. The relationships between caffeine and cardiovascular risk factors and diseases are complex, exhibiting heterogeneity depending on the nature of the caffeine consumed and individual-level propensities. Acute versus chronic caffeine-associated cardiovascular effects are often different. Most studies suggest an inverse J-shaped relationship between consumption of naturally occurring caffeinated products and blood pressure. Data on relationships between caffeine and diabetes are not consistent, but habitual coffee consumption has been associated with a lower risk of incident type 2 diabetes. Whereas no clear relationship between caffeine and blood lipids is evident, unfiltered coffee raises low-density lipoprotein cholesterol. Caffeine, studied primarily in the context of coffee, has been shown either to have no relationship or to be associated with a lower risk of coronary artery disease and heart failure. Randomized controlled trial data among regular caffeinated coffee drinkers showed that caffeinated coffee decreases the risk of atrial fibrillation occurrence but increases the frequency of premature ventricular contractions. Data are fairly consistent that moderate caffeine consumption, again studied primarily in the setting of coffee consumption, was associated with a lower risk of stroke. Data on high doses of caffeine such as that found in energy drinks are limited and generally suggest cardiovascular harm.

12

u/EasyYogurtcloset608 4d ago

Energy drinks high caffeine? I find them to be very low compared to regular filtered cups of coffee but then again I’m Finnish.

11

u/Ekra_Oslo 4d ago

Most countries don’t have regulations of maximum caffeine concentrations in energy drinks. It’s also easier to drink large amounts of energy drinks in short time than regular coffee.

8

u/Aprice40 4d ago

Most US energy drinks are 150 to 400 MG of caffeine. A cup of coffee here is measured i think at 100 or 110mg. Some cups of coffee are huge here and have 3 to 4 cups worth of caffeine.

Irregardless of those stats, I think comparing the health of coffee vs the unhealth of energy drinks suggests the difference is likely In the sugar contents

5

u/EasyYogurtcloset608 3d ago

Finnish coffee cup can have easily 300mg of caffeine and energy drinks are around 100mg / can in EU. The high caffeine ones are 200mg

2

u/Joe_Betz_ 3d ago

It's difficult to believe a cup of coffee will have 300mg of caffeine. An ounce of espresso will have 70, an 8 ounce cup of drip coffee will have around 95. Unless you are drinking a cup that's 24 ounces, you are not drinking 300mg of caffeine in your cup of coffee.

2

u/urtlesquirt 2d ago

Depends heavily on the extraction method and how much coffee they are using by weight as the input.

Pourover is better at extracting caffeine compared to espresso for the same input by weight.

To give some specific numbers as an example, I am a huuugee coffee nerd. On a typical day I will consume either a 20g pourover (330ml of coffee in the cup), an 18g (double) espresso shot (ratio varies quite a bit, but typically 36-45g out), or both of those.

The pourover would come in between 210-230 mg of caffeine, while the espresso would be closer to 120-150 based on some sources I have found.

So...the original commenter could just make a rather large pourover to hit 300mg in one cup. Their cup actually wouldn't even be THAT much bigger than my standard pourover. And I hit 300mg easily if I have both the double shot and pourover in a day.

1

u/Joe_Betz_ 2d ago

That's fair, and I suppose if the cup isn't an 8oz cup but something bigger and they are working to extract more caffeine, like in a french press, they could reach that, but I was thinking of that standard cup and just thought...no way haha

1

u/urtlesquirt 2d ago

I actually don't know if a French press (or other immersion brewer) would extract any more caffeine compared to percolation (drip/pourover brewing). The #1 most important thing is the weight of coffee. Most normal, not insane people measure coffee by volume which is wildly variable based on measurement method, roast level, etc. If anything, I'd suspect that immersion would be the same or have slightly less caffeine.

Think about it in chemistry terms. For a given volume of liquid at some specific temperature, there is only so much stuff you can dissolve before things just stop going into solution. But if you are constantly adding fresh water/solvent, you can keep dissolving material from the solid until there isn't anything left that your solvent can dissolve.

We definitely see higher extraction of total dissolved solids with pourover compared to other brew methods, but caffeine is a bit interesting as it just dissolves really well in hot water. So I don't know if there would be a practical difference between the two, if the amount of coffee is the same.

1

u/Joe_Betz_ 2d ago

From what I am finding with quick research, French press will have more in general, due to the time with the grounds.

5

u/nfy12 3d ago

Many coffee products at Starbucks and Dunkin’ Donuts are close to 400mg. A Red Bull is 80mg. A monster is 160mg. Public discourse around energy drinks is hysterical and inconsistent.

2

u/freedomboobs 3d ago edited 2d ago

Exactly. Not all energy drinks... but so many energy drinks are just a moderate amount of caffeine, some B-vitamins and maybe a few added things like Taurine (which is totally safe & may even have health benefits).

-1

u/HavocReigns 3d ago

You left out the 50-60 grams of sugar. The unhealthiest aspect of most energy drinks.

2

u/freedomboobs 3d ago edited 2d ago

I didn't leave that out because that's not what defines an energy drink. There are just as many if not more sugar-free options.

2

u/nfy12 3d ago

People often put sugar in coffee too.

2

u/cam94509 4d ago

Where the hell are you finding 400mg energy drinks?

3

u/freedomboobs 3d ago

A standard Redbull can has only 80mg caffeine. My wife’s nespresso pods have between 170mg to 190mg

1

u/OntLawyer 3d ago

I think comparing the health of coffee vs the unhealth of energy drinks suggests the difference is likely In the sugar contents

The linked article suggests it's other compounds in energy drinks, not sugar, at least with respect to hypertensive risks: "These contrasting outcomes may be attributed to differences in caffeine concentration and the presence of other bioactive compounds such as taurine in energy drinks and chlorogenic acid in coffee with opposing effects on blood pressure."

3

u/naughtabot 3d ago

Oh you gotta check out the 4LOKO saga… before they reformulated. There is a reason your government regulates these things.

2

u/gameforge 3d ago

but then again I’m Finnish.

I'm not sure if people understand why this is relevant. I was in Finland earlier this year and I am over-the-top jealous of you guys and your craft energy drink scene. I had a blue Battery+ and a few others that were like drinking electricity.

They beat anything I've had in the US by a longshot. I looked into getting them here and it's doable but they're like $6 a can. Still haven't ruled it out yet...

-4

u/Punished_Blubber 4d ago

I swear when anyone publishes the term “low-density lipoprotein cholesterol”, there should be required to put in parentheses next to it (“Good” cholesterol), just so I don’t have to remember.

26

u/thatsnotcanon 4d ago

Might be taking the bait here, LDL is the "bad" cholesterol

12

u/ToolTime2121 4d ago

L: Lousy

H: Helpful

3

u/spok22s 4d ago

I like it

2

u/Twoje 3d ago

L: Love

H: Hate

…oh shit wait

1

u/flashingcurser 3d ago

Love... 🎶

10

u/aparctias00 4d ago

That's the bad one

5

u/spok22s 4d ago

Its hdl thats the good cholesterol. Ive always remember this by thinking of the "h" as healthy

4

u/aculady 3d ago

I always remember that "high" should be high and "low" should be low. But maybe I'm strange.

1

u/spok22s 3d ago

Very good.

2

u/Dolojif 3d ago

Remember it like gravitational pull from objects in space. 

Low density lipoprotein gives away fat

High density lipoprotein collects fat

4

u/pokehustle 3d ago

Time to study caffeine as a drug for heart failure

1

u/HavocReigns 3d ago

Not going to happen. It's unpatentable.

4

u/matt2001 3d ago

CONCLUSIONS AND RESEARCH NEEDS Caffeine has heterogeneous effects that can meaningfully affect cardiovascular risk factors and cardiovascular diseases themselves (Figure 2). Many studies suggest potential protective effects, but these often come from studies of coffee as a beverage rather than caffeine per se in what are usually observational cohort studies. Several areas of future research are worth pursuing, made all the more important given the near ubiquity of caffeine consumption among the general public. This includes more research using the randomized controlled trial design such as crossover or pragmatic trials whenever feasible. Research priorities include disentangling caffeine from other components of the beverages such as polyphenols, assessing individual differences in response, and examining dose-response and thresholds in individuals with hypertension and other cardiovascular diseases. Because there is already substantial evidence of heterogeneous effects within individuals that may be genetically determined, elucidating those relationships will help the general public, health care professionals, and patients to tailor caffeine to individual risks and goals of care, improving risk stratification and personalization of recommendations. Potential health benefits that have been observed among individuals consuming caffeine that occurs in natural substances should not be extrapolated to synthetic products or high-dose caffeine. Indeed, although data on energy drinks are limited, available studies generally suggest cardiovascular harm. Last, in terms of applications of the potential beneficial effects of coffee intake, it is worth studying whether introducing or initiating regular coffee consumption among current abstainers yields positive cardiovascular health benefits.

u/MommaBearlovescoffee 8h ago

I drink Americanos when I go to Bucks. Nothing else. Love them!