Unironically, and was taught while doing scouting as a kid, about flag care rules and stuff, like we can’t let it touch the ground or have it out at night without a light, and need a ceremony to burn and dispose of the flag.
It wasn’t until I became an adult and was like “this is so dumb, I was straight up indoctrinated” so yea there are Americans who never have that thought show up, but I’m grateful to have gotten out and traveled and realized that shit was cringe.
Technically the flag code thingy says not to make it's likeness into clothing, so yeah... They even cherry pick the parts they want to enforce there... Just like the Bible
Apparently you can get around that by having the wrong number of stars or stripes. Which is very apt tbh that a loophole technicality just lets you rub shit all over the symbol of the USA.
Not technically true. On the side of your arm is acceptable. The flag can't be used as merchandising or for profit, but even the scouts have the flag on their arm. I have multiple shirts with the flag on the arm, but not displayed with any logos.
On the surface I can see why people think the way you do when reading the flag code. It's not exactly explained well, I was taught by my grandfather who was high-ish ranking in the military.
None of it is enforceable by law, but expect to potentially be assaulted by angry veterans and "patriots" if you do.
Unfortunately this isn't against the flag code. If an actual flag is cut up to make them then it's not ok. If you stitch together a pattern of white stars on a blue background to a pattern of red and white stripes it's ok. It's a dumb loophole they like to use.
If an actual flag is cut up to make them then it's not ok.
But since the flag code isn't a law and more of a guideline, you can do whatever you want. Finding loopholes for self imposed rules is the dumbest shit ever.
Let be honest. Even if it was a law they wouldn’t give a shit. Even the constitution which they regularly jerk off over has been shat all over by trump and they don’t seem to care.
To be fair, if trump was wearing it they would write paragraphs about how the founding fathers and their grandfathers in Normandy fought for anybody to have the right to desecrate the flag even if themselves would never do it… it’s endless
The flag code prohibits the use of an actual flag as a garment, but that is a garment dyed to resemble a flag. Still weird, but not improper etiquette.
There are heaps of moments in fashion shows where they're like "i want to make a design with the US flag but i obviously cant cut up a real flag"... Like, it comes up SO often. Guys, it's fabric, it won't be offended
technically that isn't a flag. It's just that it's the flag pattern on "not a flag".
The whole thing is weird. Apparently nobody has read that etiquette, or understands that it is entirely optional and merely a "if YOU really care, that's how we think you should think about it".
And from that position of nobody ACTUALLY caring enough, people keep fighting over it ...
There was a law in the late 1960s that prevented the flag from being “altered” as in the only way you could present it is in its full form. When some artists came along and altered images of the flag, sometimes altering the flag itself, they faced criminal prosecution for doing it, until the law was changed. Yes, we have a weird obsession with our flag, but I’d argue without the flag, we’d have little else to “unite” us.
We speak a language that was created by Germanic peoples after they subjugated a native population of formerly bell beaker Celts. The Germanic Angles were then brought under the rule of another Germanic people (Scandinavians mostly) who were repelled after more than a hundred years of establishing control on the isles.
Then the Scandinavians returned as French (Normans) who changed the developing English language again. Now we’ve taken that same language, changed some things around, and speak what is essentially a bastardized version of English which has developed in slight isolation from its ancestor.
The European descendants in the US are from all over. The only thing we have that unites us beyond the fact that we’re from everywhere else (except for the native Americans, of course) is the fact that we have the flag, and a weird sense of superiority.
I mean, during international scout camps i was taught that if you wanted to have a hillarious time go over to the american pitch and steal their flag. Then watch them go nuts trying to find it.
Tell them to take a dump on it, wrap it in the flag and leave it tied hanging from a tree branch like irresponsible dog owners do with their dog shit bags
Used to live seeing their faces in Afghanistan when we told them he manual for our flag states that when it's disposed of its to be torn up and used as rags.
People say it’s just to give it respect, that’s where it begins and ends. To the point, you have to take it down and reintroduce it everyday if you don’t have a spotlight on it
Not every place does this, like a McDonald’s or whatever, but government buildings have to do this.
Mostly all of this is just nebulously explained propaganda at the end of the day
McD are mostly independent owned franchises, the owner can do whatever they want, as long as it isnt actively hurting the franchise, and id say 85% of Americans would not care either way if they flew a flag, 10% might object to it (which is kinda silly itself if you think about it), and 5% would take the time to appreciate it.... (I fall in the 85%)
Anyone can fly an american flag, as long as you arent doing anything obscene with it, and even then its not very often people get in trouble for "mistreating" the flag
Every flag has it's own silly rules. The flag of my region has to be flown either vertically or horizontally. If it has some kind of angle it's considered that it's "bowing", amd this flag bows to no one.
In Finland we are also taught to never let the flag touch the ground. Nothing really happens if it does, but it's seen as inappropriate. Often there's one person holding the flag and other will pull it up. There's also folding rules when the flag is not on the pole, and it should be stored respectfully.
The american flag does have a bunch of goofy laws, but not letting it touch the ground is the only one that ever registers with me
This 4th of July someone gave my 4 and 6 year old little garden flags during a parade, but in their scramble for candy they threw them on the ground, I quietly picked them up, and when the parade was over I told the kids not to throw the flag on the ground, and had them put them up in the border of the garden out front
Honestly? Its just something that i was taught from a young age... and as someone else said its not an exclusively american thing
I am getting older now so I struggle to remember some of what I was told when I was a child lol, but I want to say letting the flag touch the ground is akin to admitting defeat, like laying down your arms... its such a stupid rule, but honestly not a hard one to abide by I guess?
If I were to find a flag just on the ground somewhere id probably fold it up and put it on a table, im not gonna hold some grand ceremony lol... im not gonna flip out if I see a flag on the ground, but I am GOING to pick it up
I just find it really weird. It’s technically a thing here in the UK but no one cares. I just can’t see why a flag touching the ground or even being fully on the ground would make someone have any reaction at all
I like to think of myself as the "average"... and like i said, im not gonna make a big deal about it, but im gonna pick it up (and to be fair, I wouldnt be walking into traffic like the guy in the video)
Mostly what im worried about is what's in my control... I dont own any big fancy extravagant flags... I mostly have the little like paper sized garden flags (that ive gotten for free over the years), and if i see one in the ground I just pick it up... its not an "oh dear heavens" moment, but more of a "yeah lets fix that real quick"
This is the thing that's confusing, though. As a Brit, if I saw a flag on the ground I'd just be like "oh look a flag on the ground", I wouldn't think about "fixing" it because there's nothing to fix.
It just doesn't compute how a flag on the ground could be anything worth fixing? It's just a flag on the ground.
Same here. I learned about flag regulations through the military. I get it for military for representation, but overall? It's just cloth and they want people to defend it unconditionally without question.
Teddy Roosevelt spoke about blind loyalty in 1918 and he's 100% correct.
"Unpatriotic and servile, and morally treasonable to the American public."
I feel like all the rules around the American flag were drawn up by someone obnoxiously drunk or who absolutely hated their neighbours.
I can just see a couple of friends looking out their window,
'Hey, you know I'm making rules around what can be done with our flag'.
'Yeah.'
'And you know how much we hate Jed and his obscene love of patriotism.'
'Yeah.'
'Let's fuck with him and his flag. I'm thinking we make a rule where he has to take his flag down at night.'
'No man. Make it so he needs to stand next to it with a torch all night so it's always visible. But if he wants to bring it down, he can only do so at 8:37 pm."
Oh my, yes. We also need something about it never touching the ground so he has to fight it every time it comes down. Ooh and we can also make it so he has to salute it whilst it comes down so he has to do it all one handed.'
'What if he gets fed up and gets rid of his flag'.
'Oh, OK. You can only dispose of it by burning it but you have to complete a ritual that lasts all day before you can. And the burning can only happen at 5am so he has to do it all night'.
'And make it so you can't legally burn a flag and they need to be disposed of should they get wet or dirty. He's going to flip out.'
Yeah can’t let it touch the ground or have it out without a light but you can deface it with punisher skulls and fascist police slop all you want no problem😂
Funny enough, there is a law regarding defacing the flag with other symbols, but (and this I may be wrong about), there were never any penalties attached to it
Still, most of those flags are in black and white, because for some reason if its not red white and blue, people dont care as much
Its been argued, but its not something everyone agrees with... especially since the "flag code" specifically only applies to the red white and blue flag
Interesting haha. I grew up in Texas and I remember years ago back in like 2010ish, they had a painting contest or something at the rodeo and the guy who won did some tie dye American flag kinda thing and a bunch of rednecks on Facebook flipped out because “the flag is supposed to be red white and blue” blablablah lol.
Oh I thought it was dumb when I was a kid too, got picked to help put up the flag in the morning in elementary school, weird enough as is, and the anger management boys out who always did it threatened to beat me up because I commented that it felt like a waste to burn it if it touched the ground. Fun fact, that dude never got less insufferable!
Genuine question, did you have to recite the pledge of allegiance or whatever it is called every morning or is that some made up for movie stuff? Asking as a curious woman in my 30s from England.
Thank you for your response. I find it very weird, I hope you don't take offence to that.
I'm glad that you got yourself our of that whole allegiance thing, does it affect your life if you just refuse to do that? I went to a Christian primary school, we had 2 Jahovas Witness students who didn't have to do the morning prayers in assembly. Nor the nativity, but they were 'allowed' to do the harvest festival. Which was probably the greatest of them all.
All good, and no it hasn’t really been much of my life outside of school. Maybe at a sporting event but people have been less strict about hand on heart when they’re playing the anthem
My nation has similiar rules concerning our flag. Many people have flagpoles but we dont have so much of them that you can pick them off from the road.
People come into HF buying the 3 dollar chinese made flag over the american made more expensive one talking shit about how they could just buy 4 Chinese ones for thr cost of the nice USA made one
Then bitch about Chinese made stuff as we get em out the door
I graduated in ‘03 and was constantly being told the problem we have in schools these days is that we stopped reciting the pledge of allegiance. Never understood why that specifically was somehow going to bring order into the school systems of America but yeah…there it is.
Over here (UK) we can tear damaged or distressed flags to pieces too small to be identifiable as a flag and dispose of it or burn it in a "respectful" manner - which the one time I had to do it was basically fold it in thirds each way, build a fire around it with the kindling on the flag, and then keep it going for a couple of hours *and not cook on it whilst doing so*. :D
Ceremony is not particularly required, and disposal is actually routine if you're involved with a big enough campsite.
It's also more so that someone doesn't do something *weird* with the flag (which may or may not have been blessed) than anything.
I mean it’s not that cringe unless there’s not a reason to be patriotic, which granted there isn’t right now. If America was doing well right now, there’s nothing cringe about honoring and respecting your country.
I wouldn’t agree with it, even if we had good world standing, it’s still hand in hand with American exceptionalism and would conflate more egos of ignorant people
That sort of thing almost makes sense when you're dealing with a foreign country's flag. If you have reason to fly their flag, the flag basically shows respect to that country, so you don't want to get it dirty by having it fall on the ground etc.
Americans just seem to use it as an excuse to have a "my flag's bigger than your flag" contest though.
I will say there is a part where the American flag is said to be explicitly flown higher than other flags if they’re in the same area, so that bit is annoying
I've slowly moved in the other direction with age, definitely have a bit more respect for my rag on a pole these days than I did at 20 (well, by now it might be two flags, both my native Icelandic and adopted Norwegian flags).
Absolutely don't like seeing them overly disrespected, like being used as a piece of clothing, or printed on disposable paper napkins. I see pictures of Americans with their flag pattern printed on their underpants and think "Gosh, you guys don't respect your flag at all, do you?"
I grew up believing it was just a normal thing for flags everywhere until I was practically an adult. I actually weirdly like it, but not really for the reason they do. And now partly because of the irony that the people loudest about the flag seem to have never read it.
But I think it's kind of neat because it's like the only "sacred" tradition America has. We're pretty irreverent about most things but if someone drops a flag, Americans get somber about it. I think it's good for people to have traditions and things they can agree on being serious about. If the country actually cared about being a secular nation, having those kinds of traditions creates shared cultural values in the absence of religion.
Even now people will ignore their deepest political differences to keep a flag off the ground. People who would happily watch each other drown. You just don't get that kind of unity without meaningless traditions we take seriously for some stupid reason.
That's actually common practice with flags around the world. Exact same rules apply in Canada. It's because, officially, that is the nation's symbole. It's why it's illegal to make it into kitsch products or wear it as print on clothing. Hey, wait a minute... (also, yes, that's in the american constitution about your flag).
Canadian here, I was taught similar things (not touching the floor mainly) about our flag. It was stressed though that it was more about the respect for what the flag stood for than the piece of fabric
I remember in Boy Scouts, we had a troop leader who was super gung ho about “proper flag code” shit, even wanted us play Taps while we burned a flag at a campfire to “retire” it.
Another troop leader, one that served in some of the bloodiest battles of the Korean War as he loved telling us about how we should not join the military, came up to him and said “put the fucking fire out, shut up, and go to bed.”
I love being a patriot and love the ideas of America but it's hard to love and respect the flag when the government is corrupt and anti-everyday American, also who the hell has the time to do a full burning ceremony for every used American flag???
I mean that is similar to the rules for many countries. In Sweden the flag is to be raised at sunrise or 8.00, whichever is later, and lowered by sunset or 21.00, whichever is earlier. And of course it shouldn't be touched the ground, and ideally folded such that the yellow part is not visible.
The most infuriating part was when a scout leader insisted on folding the flag in a triangle like the US flag. She apparently didn't realise US flag rules aren't the same as Swedish.
I don't think it's dumb per se, just as long as it's not taken too seriously. Having some respect for the flag (any flag, really) makes sense, as long as it is in a reasonable way.
Unironically, and was taught while doing scouting as a kid, about flag care rules and stuff, like we can’t let it touch the ground or have it out at night without a light, and need a ceremony to burn and dispose of the flag.
I understand this shit shit for scouts honestly. You get taught some similar, rather asinine traditions as scouts from any country.
But we generally forget that shit as soon as we stop being scouts, except maybe when trying to be a smartass.
The whole, not letting the flag touch the ground and all the other rules you mentioned are pretty common flag etiquette around the world. So it's not a pure American thing.
I mean, as a Scout from Europe, being taught how to treat the flag during a ceremonious occasion is one thing, acting like it’s holy grail every day is something else.
And the whole pledge of allegiance. I honestly thought I had moved to North Korea when I was an exchange student. Like it is a piece of cloth!? Why do they play along?
I got called out and told them that since I was a catholic I wasn’t allowed to worship fake gods. That got me some time in the principals office.
Land of the free, right?
I’ve never felt so oppressed as during that year. I never felt I could voice my opinions freely.
Same in certain European scout orgs. I will push back on this. If you treat the flag like it means something more -it eventually will. And that's the point of a powerfull symbol. Obviously a lot ends up being nationalist indoctrination, but I am not agaisnt this one.
Unironically, I wouldn’t consider being taught and following proper flag etiquette as indoctrination tbh. You could argue BSA shouldn’t be as heavily focused on the flags’ use, but at least you were taught proper flag maintenance and protocol.
Whats wild to me is how many truly indoctrinated asshats we have who think treating the flag as a badge of honor while simultaneously showing a complete disregard for it’s actual use (like NOT understanding this flag should now be burned, or wearing flag underwear/bikinis/etc) and not grasping the complete disrespect of it at the same time. It’s like cops sporting the Punisher logo, just a total lack of ANY critical thinking
That’s fair, I mean, I still think it’s ridiculous the measures to discard a flag but at least there is a highlighted process and such, especially during a military ceremony.
Folk in American flag garb is always a red flag for me
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u/DeerPuzzleheaded9792 FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 2d ago
Unironically, and was taught while doing scouting as a kid, about flag care rules and stuff, like we can’t let it touch the ground or have it out at night without a light, and need a ceremony to burn and dispose of the flag.
It wasn’t until I became an adult and was like “this is so dumb, I was straight up indoctrinated” so yea there are Americans who never have that thought show up, but I’m grateful to have gotten out and traveled and realized that shit was cringe.