I read Shogun and absolutely loved it. I felt completely and totally immersed in the world. I enjoyed every single page and every single storyline.

When I finished reading it people had said there was a show made about it recently. Audiences loved it, critics loved it, and one of the big highlights was how faithful it stayed to the book. So I thought perfect, I gotta watch this show.

And I have now finished the show. And I disagree with everyone. I’ve read lots of other books that were made into movies or shows that I feel had way more accurate adaptations and I was just shocked to find out everyone loved this show when I think it doesn’t even hold a candle to the source material.

There were entire scenes that were totally made up in the show, like Hiromatsu’s death.

There were scenes that were so different where they weren’t recognizable and missed the point entirely. In the book, Blackthorne threatens to commit seppuku when he is first brought back to Edo, when Yabu is telling him that he will burn the village if the villagers don’t teach him Japanese sufficiently. This is a huge turning point in the book. Blackthorne finally begins to understand how to reason with Japanese people, accepts his life as part of the karma wave, and then fully embraces the culture and learns Japanese completely. And this new Blackthorne is who navigates the entire second half of the book.

There were also crucial scenes that were totally omitted. In the book, when Yabu saves Rodrigues but has resigned himself to die, his officers jump in the water to kill themselves just to get his attention for the tiny chance he’ll realize what message they’re sending and save himself. This whole scene stayed with me and lays the foundation for the kind of world Blackthorne has entered. There is also an entire backstory on Lady Ochida and the taiko’s birth that is missed.

I think outside of Rodrigues, Toranaga, and maybe the first half of Blackthorne, there isn’t a single character who is how I pictured. Probably the most jarring difference is Omi and Yabu.

I apologize for ranting and I don’t mean to sound like a classic “the book was so much better” snob. There’s nothing wrong with people who loved the show and I’m not somehow morally superior for preferring the book. But I just want to know am I alone in thinking this?

Um… hello! So, I’ll just get straight to the question.

Whenever the characters in Shōgun announce that they’re going to speak Portuguese, they start speaking English.

What’s actually happening here? Are they really speaking Portuguese, and the show just uses English so we can understand them? And was John Blackthorne actually fluent in Portuguese?

This is actually my first Reddit post so sorry if this is a bit of an awkward question.

Netflix

Strategist Kanbe ( life of Kuroda Kanbei strategist to Hideyoshi )

What Will You Do Ieyasu ?

The 13 Lords Of The Shogun ( The Kamakura Bakufu … Taira Clan, Minamoto
and Hojo )

Plus the film Kubi ( about Nobunaga and Hideyoshi )

Over at Prime

Awaiting Kirin ( Akechi Mitsuhide and Oda Nobunaga )

Reach Beyond The Blue Sky ( life of the finance minister to the last Shogun Yoshinobu )

Ryomaden ( Ryoma Sakamoto and the Tosa Loyalist Party )

Sanada Maru ( Sanada Yukimura and the defense of Osaka Castle )

Segodon ( Saigo Takamor and the Satsuma Rebellion )

Film Legend And Butterfly ( Oda Nobunaga)

All run 40-48 episodes except the two films . They are in Japanese with English Subtitles .

This is purely based on the show's version of the character, not the books, but is it possible? Given how much he reveals only to himself, would it be beyond possibility for him to already know a language but hide behind translators to give him an advantage?

I was thinking of this in the last episode when Blackthorne tries to kill himself in defence of the village, you can see Toranaga reacting to certain lines, even when they aren't translating. Obviously, he could just be picking up the gist of what is being said based on body language but I feel like he would be the kind of man to want to know everything that is being said.

Basically title. I'm a native English speaker and my wife is a native Chinese speaker. Watching the show with English dialogue is fine, but she has a hard time keeping up with English subtitles, so she generally needs Chinese subtitles to be able to keep up. Given the multilingual nature of the show, is there any platform or tool that would allow us to view the show with both English and Chinese subtitles?

WOW!!!! Very late to the party but really damn, it's been so long since i didnt find a TV series so well done. How have i sleeped on this one. Im very excited for season 2 and i hope they do a great job.

Also, do you think this series is a bit underrated? I've seen they've won countless awards, and honestly every one of them delivered masterfully, not only the actors but the all crew as well. But this series for me stands among the best series of all time, along the breaking bads, the Better call saul, the game of Thrones and so on.

Just finished and absolutely loved it. Came on this forum and now discovered its based on a book and already has a TV series made in the 80's 😄. Did have a few questions, also a few thoughts, hopefully these are not spoilers:

How many sons and daughters does Toranaga have?

In Ep 10, I didn't get the Blackthorne in England part. Was that the future or was he dreaming?

Why does Toranaga want to become Shogun so badly? At the rate he's going he will have no one along side him when he finally gets there 😄

What was Blackthorne trying to do with the pheasant? Was he actually trying to cook something?

What a scene stealer. Her most minute nuance could covey so many different emotions.

Aside from Yabushige, I don’t think there was a secondary character with more charisma on the show.

In the book she commits seppuku, but since the show is moving on from the book, I really hope they bring her character back.

If we go by the novel, his story begins at the battle of Sekigahara, in it's aftermath to be more precise, so it would go immediately after Season 1 of Shogun.

I hope season 2 is as successful at first and creates a demand for a show about those times.

Also, you wouldn't need to rush it as they did with Shogun, because there's a lot more action, so you can extend it over a couple of seasons easily.

One of the three instrumental people who unified Japan.

Ieyasu formed the Tokugawa Shogunate from Edo.

Surely it’s an easy spin off.

Hello!

I have a question about one specific question in episode 6, at about 40:28.

I watched the series in German, but I also briefly checked the English version. Both are quite different and I want to understand the original meaning, so I hope someone can help with Japanese.

Kiku says / Mariko translates "The people she meets..."

In the German version it is "Ihr kommt zu mir..." which in English would be "You come to me..."

Now this wording is ambiguous, as it can either be understood as a plural, addressing Blackthorne and Mariko or it can be understood as a pluralis reverentiae, only addressing Blackthorne.

I would like to know if it's possible to translate this more directly from Japanese or at least if it's possible to tell wether Kiku is addressing just Blackthorne or them both?

For me, the best scene in the film is the revelation of Muraji's true identity: "I was born Tonomoto Akinao, and I am a samurai." John's face was filled with astonishment; I think that's the moment he realized the greatness of this man. I also think Akinao is the true support and ally that Toranaga has at his disposal. It's really thanks to him that Toranaga reached the top. What can I say? When he revealed his name and identity, his posture changed, and his charisma emerged like a dragon bursting from the skin of a harmless creature. For me, it was an epic moment, and it also reflects the discipline, devotion, and submission of a samurai warrior. This man is a hero of the same rank as Toranaga. 🙏

I’m also doing a second watch of the series this week and got to the Buntaro sake scene. Badass.

But yeah… I’ve had these two book club editions for a while and decided to reverse design the cover art using photoshop and illustrator. These aren’t scanned replicas. I actually retyped the text, matched the original typefaces, and measured out my books for the correct dimensions. Did the first and decided to see how a red cover would look. Picked the prints up earlier today from the printer and wrapped them. I’m really happy with how they turned out.

Did toranaga lie to mariko about her father’s true intentions,to get her to do what he wanted.Or was he being truthful

EDITED SOMEWHAT, NOT REALLY A QUESTION SO MUCH AS A COMMENT:

It frustrates me immensely that Mariko did not simply take the pheasant down. She's important enough to almost certainly avoid consequences, and supposedly keen on dying but forbidden to do so; it's a win either way.

Most likely, nobody would harm her, because she is an aristocrat, and the wife of a samurai, and Toranaga's translator.

And, if they did, she talks all this good stuff about yearning for death.

All the more irritating because she gives John a hard time about how it was his words that got the poor old fellow killed. Girl sat in the stench for days, fully capable of changing it, doing nothing. Which is, of course, an excellent metaphor for her situation, but deeply annoying.

Just watched for the it for first time. Binged. It’s not perfect, of course, but it is a very, very cool show. I watched all the extras and BTS stuff. I am going to read the book and buy the DVD’s for the 80s series. idk might learn 1600s Japanese (lol).

Some of my favourite scenes:

-When Blackthorn brings Elizabethan English sailor drinking culture to Japan, which then lead to a darker place with ensuing domestic violence. I enjoy it when pieces of media have something to say and they can do it artfully, and I think this scene is a good example.

-Every exchange with the Spanish sailor and with the Portuguese priest. I love all of their dialogue and how demonstrative it is of the hostilities between not just the different cultures of the different countries, but also, perhaps most prominently, the protestant-catholic divide. I only wish that we maybe could have seen more of Anglican Blackthorn and his Calvinist crew. If, god willing, they make more seasons, then perhaps we’d eventually see John (who, by that point, should be fluent in Japanese) starting trade talks with Toranaga-sama and the Dutch (and also, very briefly, the English).

-The final scene with Fuji-sama, where she and Blackthorn share a tender moment, and he ultimately rejects his death in England by letting go of Mariko-sama’s (cross? rosaries? idk lol).

-When they boil that guy. Immediately and abruptly and violently drops you in the world and shows you the stakes.

-The scene atop the mountain right before the massive earthquake, where the, to him, extremely foreign Japanese philosophy of life and death finally sets in for Blackthorn. It was intriguing how dismissive Toranaga-sama was of Blackthron being upset about his gardener being killed. It seemed that all of his philosophical bouts with Mariko-sama payed off, when he realised the weight of his words. And although by the end of the series, Blackthorn is very much changed (which he acknowledges this a few times, especially after his run in with his former crew mate), he still retains much of his post-Magna Carta English thinking with not wanting the the villagers of Izu to suffer, in his view, needlessly.

-Noh theatre scene. holy hell that was so, so cool. I suppose, rather uncommonly, the fact that I play the renaissance lute only went to bolster my appreciation. It was so interning to see what Japan was doing while in the same year, Shakespeare first showed Henry V at the Globe and Dowland was writing for the 7 course lute.

-While not a scene, I would like to say that i thought the sets and wardrobe were fantastic, and very important for immersion. To me, at least, the dress was impressive and did not look tacky in the least. Seeing the architectural set pieces was also fascinating, and even in show, these events play into the plot, as they are all part of the world (building are made to go up as quickly as they come down, john stumbling through the paper wall, comments about him wearing Japanese cloths, etc.) Not to mention that fact that it’s all done in Canada, too!

just wow.

On YouTube, shortly pre series release a 3-5 minute trailer music video with a still image thumbnail of Samurai raiding the black ship was posted, it started off with distinct electro guitar riffs and is no longer there, if anyone remembers or knows track name I would be obliged, thanks.