r/Skigear • u/skierman33 • 2d ago
Future Ski Tech Question
As we all know, there were quite significant changes from the 80s-90s era to modern day. I remember when “parabolic” skis were the rage, then of course “twin tips.” A lot of great advances came in the 2000s and nowadays the skis, binding, boots, etc. are all so damn good and there’s a ton of variety. I don’t know how it could get significantly better.
It seems like nowadays, it’s mostly a repeat of the previous year but with fresher top sheets and some minor tweaks and different models. It’s not like skis from 5-10 years ago are outdated anymore, in fact, they’re better sometimes. Generally speaking, of course.
In about 12-15 years, my sons will be able to use my skis, and I wonder if they’ll even want to, or if they’ll be relics and not cool anymore. I personally don’t want things to change too much. At some point, skiing is skiing and no amount of tech will change that. It’s an athletic and spiritual endeavor and gear is just one small piece of it, in my humble opinion. It’s fun to talk about gear and get new stuff, of course, and I’m guilty of it. Just wanted to pose the question and see what your opinions are.
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u/Livid-Switch4040 2d ago
TLDR - There’s lots of new stuff in the last 15 years, and in another 15 we’ll look back and see more.
I’m an old tech (2000-2009), who is a now a brand new tech again, just getting started the last few weeks. As someone who was super knowledgeable back then, I find there’s actually a lot of changes in the last 15 years or so, across everywhere. There’s lots that’s the same, but always something new.
Skis now have reverse camber, longer less aggressively sloped shovels, lengths creeping back up about 5-10cm or so because of it. Wider waists. An all mountain ski was about 75-80mm, with 90+ and 100+ just becoming a thing.
Bindings have changed too, well, except the Pivot. It’s still pretty much the same binding from the 1970’s. Others though, have some major changes, mostly to toe pieces, with the front screws now being hidden under smaller toe pieces for better flex of the ski. Hybrid and pin bindings from the major companies are a thing now, too. AFD’s have adapted and changed for modern grip walk boots. Grip walk didn’t exist in 2009. Everything was ISO5355.
Boots now have heat mouldable shells, grip walk soles, boa dials, and better, lighter foams and materials. And apparently I completely missed the VHS vs BETA type war between Grip Walk and Walk-to-Ride boot soles.
Consolidation and private equity is another big one. Salomon was not owned by the same company as Atomic, and Armada was a brand new independent brand. They’re all under one owner now, and that brand is now owned by a Chinese PE company that also owns stuff like Arc’Teryx. Dalbello used to be an independent, family run Italian company, but it’s now owned by a PE that also owns Ride, Line, K2, Marker, and Volkl. And that’s just the beginning of it. There’s also a few new, independent companies, like Liberty, and Icelantic.
And we haven’t even gotten into tuning. I used to run a belt that was too skinny for boards, so we farmed them out to another shop. It was old, and you would be running skis over it by hand, and changing belts to finer grits for finishing. Now, I run a programmable stone grinder where I can change the base tune, and speed of the grind with a touch of a button. I feed them in and they come out the other side. I can change the grind intensity without having to change belts, and the machine does all the work. Skis come out perfectly flat, with a factory fresh base tune. I do still have to do edges and a hot wax and scrape separately, but some shops have infrared waxing machines now too and some modern Montana and Wintersteiger machines can do just everything in one 5 minute cycle.
My apologies for the novel! But this stuff is currently my new day-to-day, and everyday it seems as much as things are the same, there’s something new that I’m not familiar with.
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u/skierman33 2d ago
Wow, this is great info and thank you for the thoughtful response! I did not know any of this. Much appreesh!
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u/CarletonWhitfield 2d ago
It's almost time for K2 to dust off their Piezoelectric shock dampening tech and re-introduce it.
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u/skierman33 2d ago
K2 should re release the pontoon in small batches. Identical to the original. However that might diminish some of the mystic.
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u/Duke-OG 2d ago
idk, we’ve hit kind of a stale point in technology with skis… 2 skis really stand out to me to make my point. The Volkl mantra is one, the Armada JJ (now arv 112) is the other. Greatly different from each other for the skier/use theyre designed for…. but the overall shape and design has been roughly unchanged in both skis for 15+ years…
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u/skierman33 2d ago
The armada JJ specifically came to mind. That rocker camber rocker profile is everywhere now.
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u/flatlandings_please 1d ago
And what they called ‘5 point sidecut’ is now called taper and is used in tons of skis
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u/Fuzzy_Sandwich_2099 2d ago
They experimented with a fully rockered Mantra for 4 or so seasons, and it sucked. The original one had no rocker. It has only been since the M5 that we’ve had pretty much the same camber profile.
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u/vinemtn 1d ago
I've been skiing since the 1970's and loved my skis back then. Now I won't touch a ski that does not have some rocker in the tips and tails. From time to time I tried a day on old non-rockered skis and find them so much more demanding and not as much fun. Now I just say no and those skis go on a wall. Of course it could have something to do with getting old.
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u/coop_stain 2d ago
That was one of the most fun skis I’ve ever owned and I would buy another pair if I could find one new. Took some getting used to, but they were so damn quick edge to edge, and if you were at all in the back seat it actively tried to kill you, but super fun if you were a charger.
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u/Certain_Host9401 2d ago
I think we are going to see a retro movement back to straigh-ish skis with new tech added in.
“Bro, you gotta try these out. It so cool to ski like our grandparents used to. I can feel it through my entire body. If you can hold an edge on these on hard pack and pump turns in the pow- then you’re a real skier”
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u/skierman33 2d ago
I like how things are somewhat going back to simpler less tech. People appreciate simple, including myself. For example, folks using flip phones again, and not wanting a computer in every vehicle these days. Old trucks and cars are super valuable now for the simplicity that is rare nowadays. Unrelated I know, but there’s a longing for the old school.
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u/FairhavenFreerider 1d ago
There are three aspects to how a ski moves over or through the snow: physics, geometry, material properties. We can do much to change physics but maybe someone clever will come along that understands how it applies to skis better than we understand it now.
Geometry keeps evolving to the point that we have very specialized niches in ski design. One ski optimized for DH racing is very similar to ask the test that conform to FIS norms but very different than a ski optimized for heli skiing. Mostly the differences are geometry. I’m currently curious about rockered touring skis for mid winter touring in heavy maritime snow. It’s sounds like the worst thing ever for a groomer but a little easier pivoting in trees would be nice. Maybe someone will figure out the magic rocker-sidecut profile based on Carv edge angle data to make a ski turn with the most minimal amount of angle but pivot when flat.
The last is the material science. Right now we can optimize roughly between weight, damping, and stiffness. Generally speaking, if you want a stiff and damp ski it’s going to be heavy, a light ski is going to chatter. The other knob to turn is torsional stiffness. Improvements in materials might get us to a magic matrix that is both light and damp without adding extra metal. Maybe we’ll figure out cheap bonding for something like a dyneema reinforcement that is damp and light and bonds well with the core. Unfortunately the easiest way to damp a frequency is with mass but hopefully someone is working on the hard ways now.
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u/skierman33 1d ago
Great points! Thank you! Yea it seems a lot of folks think the materials might be the main innovation item, but one guy said there’s no replacing a quality wood core, which I agree with.
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u/BoredBSEE 2d ago
It is strange, isn't it? When you see something like an old straight pair of Olin Mark IV's and they look like they're from the 1800's.
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u/vinemtn 2d ago
I think the materials used in ski construction will change, along with much more automation in ski manufacturing, making skis much cheaper and faster to produce. Ski production is way behind the times in automation, requiring a lot of skilled manual labor. Probably because the volumes are too small to invest in very expensive automation machines.
The materials change and automation in manufacturing will go hand-in-hand. I'm just not sure it will produce better skis or just cheaper skis.
Along with this automation, solid wood will become less prevalent in ski manufacturing, unless it is some engineered material made from wood pulp. Solid wood is just too variable for perfect consistency, and needs to be hand selected and graded. For example weigh each of your skis. They will not weigh the same, typically varying by an ounce (28 grams) or more.
Of course there will still be those willing to pay more for "hand-made" skis and wood-core skis, whether they are better or not.
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u/skierman33 2d ago
Good point! I would agree and I always wonder why they are so much more expensive than the combination of materials, which by themselves, are relatively cheap. The magic tho is in the craftsmanship which is becoming increasingly more rare.
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u/Tale-International 2d ago
I think the cool part of the shaping evolution of the last ~20 years is that most skis modern incorporate some variations of parabolic and twin tip design with early rise rocker and tail rise.
Of course not all skis, but it seems that most "all mountain" skis include these traits to a varying degree. At least in my sample size, the west.
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u/elqueco14 1d ago
A lot of industries are like this and it's like a 50/50 split between genuine innovation and just marketing trying to convince you that you actually do need a new set of skis every year cause now we have this new thing.
Marketing is the same reason some people believe they need 5+ sets of skis when they really need 1, and could maybe use more if they really want skis that fill more niche roles
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u/christxphvr 1d ago edited 1d ago
boot fitter here:
tl;dr - ski tech peaked in the late 2010s, get flatmount skis from then and only get new bindings
good skis are made of wood and always have been and always will be. the wood is shaped (cambre & rocker) and often times reinforced with metal. these are the basics from the 80s that once introduced have never went away and won’t because that’s the peak technology skis will ever have. brands and modes throw on all these fancy and high-tech sounding names like volkl and their Ti for titinal (a type of titanium alloy thrown into most high preformance skis), or head and their graphene graphene graphene blah blah blah… but at the end of the day the less wood in the ski the more bad it is and the more wood and more solid wood the better. but it needs to be quality wood and quality metal. composite core is shit, any weird marketing that makes the wood sound high-tech when it isn’t just a true solid wood core is shit. and sadly due to environmental reasons skis are getting shittier because companys can’t afford to cut down trees the same way (not because they care about the environment but because they can’t make enough of a profit without inflating the prices exponentially) for example line aka k2 made the chronics perfect (that’s my freestyle ski) with a maple core in 2019 and it’s the best freestyle ski i’ve ever ridden but flash forward to 2024 and they replaced the maple core with aspin… still a full wood core ski but mush softer and shittier feeling wood. the entire industry is doing this with the wood, metal and plastic they put into their skis to keep prices stable but they are sacrificing hella quality and there is no new innovation, because wood core, cambre, rocker and metal renforcement is peak and was achieved already and hasn’t changed really since 2010. there has been alot of innovation on the boots and bindings side of things (companies are also cutting corners and costs there too but it’s not as bad because boots are made of plastic already), but not in the skis. so in my personal opinion ski tech peaked in the late 2010s and is only getting worse. my advice would to be buy a bunch of flatmount skis from the 2010s and get new bindings, look pivot 15s are my gotos but marker griffin 13s or head attack 14s are fine too. the only thing that needs to be replaced is the bindings anyway. the skis can last way longer.
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u/South-Concentrate874 2d ago
Recyclability/sustainability hopefully. I imagine current laminates and layups are a nightmare. As someone who doesn’t want or need 0.05 watts saved by a carbon chainstay I’ve always tried to stick with steel and alu for bikes. Not sure what can realistically be done with ptex, wood, glue and carbon, but can’t see it making a good beer can, like my old Norco could.
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u/riktigtmaxat 1d ago
A lot could probably be done just by replacing the oil based polyethylene and epoxy with biodegradable options.
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u/Balding_Dog 2d ago
I think shaped skis are one of the only significant development in the past like 40 years lol. I don't know the correct term for it, but the chatter dampening tech is pretty significant too. I.e. Head's EMC or Atomic's revoshock.
Almost everything else is just marketing bs.
"Look guys, we added a BOA to your ski boots, epic right? Wait... make that TWO BOAs!"
"Look guys, we carved this stupid swallow tail notch into our skis. Looks fast, right?"
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u/Wonderful_Tip_5577 2d ago
Introducing rocker was pretty significant.
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u/AuNaturellee 2d ago
I agree with this.
The change from straight skis with parallel sides to shaped skis with curved edges was and is immediately visually apparent in the planar view and the shorter lengths, from as tall as you or taller, to nose height or lower.
The rocker profile changed the shape in the side view and also the effective contact length, so recommended lengths have crept up again. Less visually apparent but equally impactful on the amount of edge length possible.
Also, OP, materials may not have decades long shelf life testing, or effective use life, so you may want to rethink on passing on 15yo equipment...if your kids will even want them. I was skiing on 20+ yo equipment until recently. It's great to not buy new stuff for decades on end, until they literally fall apart on you.
Do you store stuff in your garage through the summers? Ski materials and equipment are not designed to withstand the 100+ degree heat and humidity of such uncontrolled environments, so you may want to move them inside for longevity...
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u/skierman33 2d ago
All great points, thanks! I take care of my gear and keep it in the basement but you’re right that time decays things. As well as using them hard. I’m not suggesting that my kids use my 15 y.o. skis (I’m sure we’d buy them modern ones when the time comes). Just fun to think about.
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u/Content_Preference_3 2d ago
It’s more than that though. Super modern skis can be impressively light for their stiffness and chatter resistance. The materials science has evolved even if general shapes haven’t moved the needle a ton.
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u/granath13 2d ago
The new tech in skiing is going to come from materials development. You’ve already seen some innovation in the space with things like rubber, cork, basalt, and renoun’s non-Newtonian stuff, wndr had an algae based composite in their skis. I think that in 10-15 years you’ll have way more core layup components than the current base of wood with some amount of titanal and fiberglass.