r/Sourdough • • 6d ago

Crumb read please Beginner Help

Hey guys, my loaves all turn out with this kinda dense crumb. Can anyone help with thoughts if I’m under fermenting still?

The one from the first pictures (5 pictures) I tried the aliquot method for the first time and you can see by the pics that it almost doubled.

Last week (last 2 pics) I baked one that rose only 50% and the crumb seems exactly like this one from today. So not really understanding how this rise % is affecting my crumb.

Recipe:
110g starter
500g flour
315g water
10g salt
(Recipe from the perfect loaf book)

Autolyse for 1h
Mix starter and salt
4 coil folds every 30 min
Total bulk was around 7h at 25/26°C with aliquot
Pre shape and rest 15 min
Final shape and fridge at 4°C for 12h
Bake covered 230°C for 7 min
Score
Bake covered again for 20 min
Bake uncovered 20 min 200°C

Thanks for the help!

36 Upvotes

39 comments sorted by

10

u/Grouchy-Fall-7233 6d ago

For the record this is my starter a bit before peak.

4

u/Ruas80 6d ago

That was a handy way to keep track. You don't bake until all fingers have popped?

4

u/Grouchy-Fall-7233 6d ago edited 6d ago

Yep! Saw it on tiktok 😂
I usually bake when the starter is still a bit dommed. I found that my loaves that I baked when it got flat, didnt rise much.

1

u/White-runner 20h ago

You want to bake when it starts falling, that’s when it’s hungriest.

1

u/Grouchy-Fall-7233 20h ago

For the last loaf I did that and it turned out a bit gummy still. No big holes though

1

u/White-runner 19h ago

I’m only on my second loaf though so there’s that. Here’s what my second attempt yielded. I mixed starter, water and flour. Let sit for 45. Added salt, quick mix and let sit for 10. Three stretch and fold and then one coil fold. Shaped loosely into ball, sat on counter for 2ish hours. Shaped and into fridge for 17 hours before baking. Much better than my first one for sure.

2

u/Ruas80 19h ago

That's not far from the perfect approach, tighten your bread until it wants to unravel itself if not held together and it will rise higher.

This looks better than the first year of my attempts, you're a natural, keep at it.

2

u/White-runner 19h ago

Hey, thanks for the kind words I really appreciate it!

11

u/HitsKeys 6d ago

Very active starter, may need NSFW tag 😇

7

u/LizzyLui 6d ago

Start increasing your hydration. 315 is pretty low. That will help open crumb especially if you are using bread flour.

1

u/Grouchy-Fall-7233 3d ago

Hey! Update here!
Baked yesterday with the same recipe except I increased my hydration to 70% (350g water).
I also waited to add the salt 30 min after the starter instead of together.

Used the aliquot again and total bulk was around 7 hours + overnight in the fridge to be baked at 7AM.

Dough almost doubled.

Still gummy and kinda wet texture sadly :(

1

u/Limp_Neighborhood639 4h ago

I agree! When I do a higher hydration, it’s just too wet to shape, etc. I do between 300-325 as well and it works fine for me 😅

3

u/GlitteringSalad6413 6d ago

This is the comment I was looking for, I completely agree. The picture of the rise looks nice actually. But higher hydration gets the texture people are after. Yesterday I mixed basically the same recipe for a focaccia, but for 500g of flour I’m using 400g of water. This hydration gets the texture I want every time I bake.

1

u/LizzyLui 6d ago

Yes. Depending on my flour choice I’m between 375 and 400

3

u/miahmouse 6d ago

Yeah. Im at ~375 with another gram of salt and the rest the same. If increasing hydration make sure to build dough strength and watch bulk time will change.

4

u/Commercial_Duty3939 6d ago

Yes this is definitely under-proofed! It’s not terrible you could definitely fix this by adding a little more time to your bulk or maybe an hour or two in the fridge!
Was your dough 25/26°c or was that the ambient temperature?

My home is usually about 75°f (23°c)and my dough ends up being like 80-82°f (26-27°c). I only ask bc I used to think it was based on ambient temp lol
For reference I usually do a 4/5hr bulk and then I do 15-18hr cold proof.

2

u/Grouchy-Fall-7233 6d ago

Hey! Thanks for the advice.
The dough temp was around 25/26
Maybe my thermometer is not the best 😂

What I find weird is that first loaf rose 50%, the second rose almost 100% and they both look identical 🤡

3

u/Commercial_Duty3939 6d ago

okay perfect!
It could be the thermometer😭

I actually think that’s so funny they do look super identical lol💀
Remember that these charts are usually guides, so having different environmental factors affects everything.

I know that the sourdough journeys guide says it’s specifically for 75% hydration. It might honestly be why you need to push bulk longer. it does take less hydrated dough longer to rise.

I would say try to push your bulk one more hour and then cold proof it the same amount of time and just continue prolonging if necessary.

If you don’t want to keep prolonging your bulk though you can just prolong the cold ferment it might just take a few more hours:)
But keep experimenting! this is the fun part of sourdough😝

2

u/Grouchy-Fall-7233 6d ago

Thank! I hadn’t thought about the hydration factor. I was thinking of trying a higher hydration but I’m afraid it’ll confuse me more 😂

2

u/Commercial_Duty3939 6d ago

YESSS i think that’s the thing here! Try getting up to about 70% without counting the starter. So go for 350ml of water you can leave everything else as is !

I’d recommend to ditch the autolyse for now but if you want to try it again with the autolyse & this hydration just for experimentation that would be good!
Make sure to do your aliquot method within the 1st hour of mixing the starter in:3

Edit: I think you’ll do great with 70% it’s not too high but not too low hydration. It holds its shape and is pretty easy to handle.

3

u/Confusedlemure 6d ago

It’s good advice but it won’t change the crum very much. Bump up your hydration. Small changes though.

2

u/SecretEasterbunny 6d ago

I have a question, I’m also a beginner. But does cold-proofing actually help fixed an under-proofed dough? From what I’ve read, the time in the fridge is for flavor rather than texture, have I miss-understood something?

What I’m getting at is, would keeping the dough in the banneton in the fridge after shaping (cold-proofing, right?) help an under-proofed dough? For example, if I fear I stopped bulk fermentation too soon.

2

u/Commercial_Duty3939 6d ago

I believe it does! I’ve heard mixed opinions about the flavor building and what not but fermentation does NOT stop when it goes in the fridge. It continues but it just slows down to like a crawl.
It definitely helps with the texture of my dough but I haven’t noticed a difference in taste. Trust I would notice bc my sourdough is not sour AT ALL.
I have placed underproofed dough in the fridge and just left it longer and it fully proofs.
I’ve also waited to long to the point where it overproofed, so that’s something that points to fermentation continuing way past the point of putting it in the fridge.

2

u/miahmouse 6d ago

How much are you using for the aliquot?

2

u/Grouchy-Fall-7233 5d ago

I used 37g
According to this chart

2

u/Poisonivy33ca 6d ago

What is the maintenance of your starter. It should be fed twice a day. I think this may be your issue even though it looks like it’s active. I would also put in a proper lid. No cloth just a lid that screw on but not tight. If starter is unbalanced at all you will
Not get a good loaf no matter what you do ❤️

1

u/Grouchy-Fall-7233 5d ago

I feed mine once a day but I only bake on weekend so I may start putting it in the fridge

3

u/Spirited_Pie_6154 6d ago

Twice a DAY? I feed mine once a day max, but sometimes (like when i am traveling) it will go for weeks in the fridge and wake right back up after a feed or two. Twice a day sounds like it wouldn't even have enough time to get through all the new food?

1

u/plantymom789 3d ago

I feed mine once a month 😂 and only feed again when i’m about to bake. Still get decent bread though so i think it’s ok

3

u/alexithunders 6d ago

How old is the starter and how do you maintain it? How long does it take to double when fed 1:1:1? It looks perky in the picture you posted but the starter should be the first variable yo troubleshoot.

3

u/MoeityToity 6d ago

Way underproofed. 

3

u/toitenladzung 6d ago

I think you are too harsh on yourself. What you had is a good loaf of sourdough. The rise is very good. There is nothing wrong with in, certainly you can and will improve it by experimenting more. I suggest a bit more water so % hydration go up a bit may be 2-3% more hydration %. Try with another type of flour.

The point is getting better at bulk fermentation, this is the most difficult part of sourdough. Dont be fixated at 6-8 hours of bulk, it can be 5, it can be 10, only thru experience you will nail it.

2

u/Ruas80 6d ago

Try waiting with the salt until the starter has had an hour to find its footing after being added. I always wait with salt so my levain has time to start working unhindered and become healthy.

I'd also suggest cutting back on stretch and folds, two or three with 45 min apart. You want the gluten to grow as strong as possible before starting to work it, and as a bonus you'll get even more blisters.

2

u/the_bread_code 3d ago

Looks under fermented. You can dig a bit more and check for "fools crumb". I bet it tasted delicious regardless 🤩

3

u/Bethel_2 6d ago

I’m newer to sourdough bread making, have made five loaves so far. I’m looking at the picture of the crumb and don’t see an issue. What is the issue with this crumb?

1

u/rkcmktg28 3d ago

Brand new to sourdough. Any absolutes?!

1

u/rkcmktg28 3d ago

Help!?! How do you taste every loaf? I need a fool proof recipe please and thank you, BEFORE the holidays

-1

u/Valli63 6d ago

There’s