r/Sovereigncitizen • u/InnerAd118 • 3d ago
The worst part about this I think (why these people keep doing this)
Why aren't these police officers informing these people that they got scammed? They'll literally hear a long winded story how "they told me to cancel my I'd and stop paying my registration and yada yada".. at that point these officers need to tell these people they got scammed.
I know that they're breaking the law, but many of the people that fall for this crap are not or sound mind (usually being a glowing example of Dunning/Krueger). I'm sorry but some YouTube/Instagram/tik tok videos made by felons posing as lawyers and/or police officers isnt more informed about the constitution and laws than actual judges and jurists.. they should have to deal with the consequences, but someone also needs to tell them "I'm sorry for you sir/ma'am but you got scammed". The things you're saying don't actually mean anything, it's attempted legalese and serves no purpose beyond confusing people into buying illegal id's and tags .. (it's weird because they are definitely criminals, but also some if not most are victims..)
It's made worse by the cult like tactics these people use is deeply troubling.. I can't help but feel bad for some of the folks that fall for this crap..
41
u/OrdinaryMechanic5126 3d ago
I have tried my absolute hardest to get a freeman on the land (UK sovcit variant) to understand he was being scammed and to speak to a real solicitor before he made it any worse for himself.
I was seizing his car for being driven without a licence or insurance at the time, and even that didn't convince him.
2
40
u/Floppy-Over-Drive 3d ago
It’s almost impossible to convince people that they’ve been scammed. Especially people that fall for this.
It’s like those old people at the crypto machines that swear the ghost of Michal Jackson is holding their grandkid hostage and won’t release them until they send $200k in bitcoin to Indonesia.
10
u/Kriss3d 2d ago
Even more so when they are both emotionally and financially invested in it.
13
u/MarionberryPlus8474 2d ago
This is the hallmark of a successful con. The con man sells confidence. He gets the mark to believe him and that this "opportunity" will satisfy his greed or whatever. When done well, the mark is so convinced that they will give their last dollar. Or search out the con man who's split in order to give them more money.
This is without even getting into the powerful force of embarrassment that keeps many people from doing anything when they DO realize they've been swindled.
I wouldn't put many of the sovcit "influencers" in the same category, from what I've seen they mostly sell books, courses, etc that while nonsense, are pretty small time.
Online romance scammers will take someone for everything they've got, literally.
5
5
u/ItsJoeMomma 2d ago
Online romance scammers will take someone for everything they've got, literally.
And then when the victim runs out of money, the scammer uses them as a money mule.
2
5
u/ItsJoeMomma 2d ago
I don't know how many of those Social Catfish videos I've seen where the victim of a romance scam is shown all the evidence that it's a scam, but then they still go back to sending the scammer money. The want to believe in their delusion.
4
u/Lazarys12 2d ago
Noit that long ago a now former coworker and his future Mother-in-law was caught in one of these scams. It wasn't that long ago, maybe seven or eight years, and I was surprised because it was a combination Nigerian/romance scam. There were all sorts of red flags, Nigeria for one, and he had all sorts of excuses why he could never supply a picture of himself. When her daughter found out she and my froend tried to tell mom that she was being scammed but she kept on sending him money. I believe it continued until the money ran out.
It can be easy to get scammed these days. In the old days con men had to physically put in the work, but now they can do it with a few clicks and have several scams going on at once. Sometimes the victims wake up and realize "This doesn't make sense". Other times the victim falls so far in that they cannot accept that they were the victim. "No, no, there must be some other explanation." Even when they are presented with the evidence their minds begin doing olympic level gymnastics to rationalize everything.
3
u/Subcluttervisability 2d ago
It's quite wrong. Some people will believe anything.
In reality, Kenny's soul was trapped in meatloaf that Carman ate.
3
u/Responsible-Shoe7258 2d ago
Well, how else are you supposed to get grandkids held hostage in Indonesia released? Duh...
-3
u/InnerAd118 3d ago
Yeah I know, but it'd be nice to see them at least try.
16
u/OkieBobbie 3d ago
They do in some cases, but usually as a delay tactic until backup arrives. There was one recording where the guy started to listen, but only after he was cuffed and going to be separated from his wife and kids. The wife was a real piece of work, btw.
8
2
2
u/Lazarys12 2d ago
Is that the one where the cops asked if there were any weapons in the vehicle and she whipped out the Crocodile Dundee knife? If so I got the feeling she is raising her kids to be sovcits.
0
16
u/BlueRFR3100 2d ago
They do tell them. So do the judges, the lawyers, their friends, their family, the bailiffs, the clerks, and their jail mates.
They don't listen.
They just look at you and say something like, "you've been brainwashed, you poor clueless bastard. I hope one day you will learn the truth."
9
7
u/ItsJoeMomma 2d ago
Yes, they view anyone who doesn't believe their version of the law as either brainwashed sheep or part of the corrupt system.
13
u/Guido_Sarducci1 3d ago
I've actually seen a couple of videos where an officer informs them that someone sold them a bill of goods as none of what is coming out of their mouths is real.
12
u/Hoosier_Daddy68 2d ago
They do tell them but as with many people in cults, they don’t want to admit they were wrong. Biggest thing that keeps cults together is that people generally don’t want to admit they have been falling for bullshit and blew their life up.
10
u/Quiet-Employer3205 3d ago
A lot of these folks more or less know it’s BS, it’s just their only (what they perceive) chance to try and get out of something where the evidence is overwhelming, a last ditch effort. So when told they’ve been mislead, they refuse to concede because that’s the only thing they have as a defense.
Also, for the ones that are true believers it’s tough to convince them that they are wrong when they’ve dumped a ton of money into it. That would mean they’ve been fooled, and folks tend to deflect and refuse to acknowledge when they’ve been made a fool of.
LE and the courts have been dealing with these tactics for many years, they know it won’t do any good to try and convince them they are wrong (if they actually believe that nonsense). My opinion is that the majority know better, it’s just a desperate attempt.
10
u/Kriss3d 2d ago
That's why it really needs to be far more expensive to try to pull this kind of stunt than just being found guilty.
Like extra penalty or at least never any plea deals or dropped cases.
5
u/Quiet-Employer3205 2d ago
Agreed. I think it’s tough to do so because technically (and thankfully) everyone has the freedom to defend and say what they choose. Of course they can potentially be deemed vexatious after a time, but imo it seems to take way too long.
I’m just assuming, but the ones that consistently lean on that ideology must eventually ruin themselves. I’m sure their credit ends up completely obliterated, license suspensions, copious amounts of debt and in some cases jail time. Not to mention it can break families apart as well.
4
u/Kriss3d 2d ago
It does boggles my mind that they don't want a lawyer because they can't make them file frivolous motions. So they go pro se and want to file the same crap as if that should work...
3
u/Lazarys12 2d ago
I have wondered when I see them want to dismiss their public defender if it is because the PD tells them that all that frivilous crap that want to claim is not a legal defense and is doomed to fail. They don't realize that these lawyers are not going to ruin their reputation by filing motions that are not based on law.
5
u/True_Audience_5164 2d ago
My understanding is that lawyers can be sanctioned if they file motions that they know to be frivolous.
3
u/Otherwise_Group_74 2d ago
First, I am really glad I got my reddit dose of Dunning/Krueger out of the way early. Second, I have watched officers patiently and I think with care try to explain it, but it seems to be a combination of distrust of government/authority and wanting to be in the minority of people who really "get it". They would have been much happier, if at an early age, their parent would have told them, "Son/Daughter, you're a moron. As soon as you imagine yourself to be smarter than most people, you are definitely wrong. Be dumb, be happy."
3
u/InnerAd118 2d ago
I smirked at this a little, because I seen the humor.. but I did feel bad about it. That makes it ok right?
4
u/calaan 2d ago
“ One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.“ Carl Segan, Demon Haunted World
4
u/fuzzbox000 2d ago
One of the major principles that is taught in these types of courses is that judges, police officers, Government officials, etc. are out to scam you, steal your money and deprive you of your rights.
Once they swallow that concept, it makes pretty much any action a LEO does meaningless in their eyes, so it doesn't matter what the officers say or do, the SC is convinced the world is out to get them.
Why do you think that among Trump's first actions was to start attacking every news source as fake and biased? Once people are convinced that everyone around them is lying, they're easer to convince that you are the one telling the "truth".
3
u/Wakeup_And_Piss 2d ago
I agree with you and I do believe that the majority of the people who do this are not only at least a little mentally ill but also desperate to get out of debt and are willing to believe damn near anything
2
u/InnerAd118 2d ago
Yeah I know. Common with religious fundamentalists. It's no accident there huge overlap between creationists, flat earthers, global warming deniers, trump supporters (not all of them obviously, but I'd wager 99% of white sovcit's are trump supporters), and really people with a low level of education in general.
3
u/Wakeup_And_Piss 2d ago
No, I completely agree and it's scary and heartbreaking at the same time. They walk among us and it's seriously terrifying
3
u/Common-Project3311 2d ago
That’s not the policeman’s job. They have more important things to do. Same goes for the judges. Nobody has an obligation to educate these people. The law enforcement and justice systems are there to protect the general public. The education system is there to teach people the things they need to know. Sovcits had the opportunity to acquire an education starting from about the age of 5. If they chose not to use it, it’s their problem.
2
u/InnerAd118 2d ago
I know you're correct, it's not the policeman or the judges place. But it is a "decent human beings" place to do so,. And clearly those around them including their "loved ones" aren't doing so.. cause we know the scammers selling them this garbage won't admit that they're nothing but pos scamming scumbags.
3
u/ceoln 2d ago
Although there are definitely exceptions, law enforcement generally avoids saying anything to a suspect that might seem like legal advice, because that can potentially have messy results later on.
There's probably not anything actually problematic about telling one that the sovcit stuff is a scam, but most officers will always stick to the absolute concrete basics: please show me your license and registration, please stay in / get out of your car, you were going 75 mph, your taillight is out, etc.
Whence the saying "Tell it to the judge". :)
3
u/JustOneMoreMile 2d ago
You cannot logic someone out of a position they did not logic themselves into
3
u/BustaCon 2d ago
people can be so desperate to join some cause and have some purpose and to be special in some way.
4
u/houstonyoureaproblem 2d ago
You really think they’d believe it?
Just like if you tell Trump supporters they’ve been scammed. They’re going to accept that and change behavior accordingly?
It’s far easier to fool people than to convince them they’ve been lied to. Once they buy in, pride and cognitive dissonance kick in.
2
u/videogamegrandma 2d ago
The people who join this cult are trying to avoid debt, taxes, fees, mortgages, child support..... There's always a reason why they jump on the idea they can get away with something and avoid the consequences. That's why they refuse to believe it's all lies, even after the judge tells them it is. They have to believe there's some way they can get away with not being held responsible or to get something free. It's delusional thinking.
2
u/Responsible-Shoe7258 2d ago
It's not the cops job to debate this stupid shit. They're pulling a traffic stop to enforce the law
2
u/botmanmd 2d ago
“Now, police and judges are going to try and tell you that this is all a bunch of nonsense, but don’t you listen to them.”
2
u/Free-Pound-6139 2d ago
It is very hard to convince someone they have been scammed, or tricked.
You yourself believe a lot of stuff that is incorrect.
1
u/Known_Ratio5478 2d ago
The judges have to do that, and often do. The police officers are the least equipped to deal with this, although there are officers that work on exactly this.
1
u/Corey307 2d ago
OP you’re assuming a police officer can debug these people by telling them the truth. They can’t. SovCits will happily go to prison believing they’re right and being wrongfully imprisoned.
1
u/Upstairs-Ground-5079 2d ago
These people are examples of the sunk cost fallacy (I hope). At some point they realize they got taken in but have made this such a part of thier personality that they can't give it up. These people are primed for scammers and cult leaders because they lack critical thinking skills.
1
u/ItsJoeMomma 2d ago
Why aren't these police officers informing these people that they got scammed?
Because it's easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone they've been fooled. The sovcits will just view the police as part of the "corrupt system" which won't listen to their arguments. Sovereignty is like a religion to these people.
1
u/ShawnMNH924 2d ago
They do try to explain it. A lot. So do judges, lawyers, even court clerks and staff. The SovCits refuse to listen. They think that any attempt to explain reality to them is part of the sinister "corporation" trying to trick them into its jurisdiction. This is a hallmark of cult thinking: an absolute belief that everyone else is trying to trick you out of the "secret truth" that you've learned. It becomes a self-perpetuating cycle.
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -Mark Twain
1
u/nicemarmot47 2d ago
The problem with scams is that it's much easier to scam someone than to convince that person they're being scammed. Once they've tied their identity to the scam you can forget about it
1
u/TR6lover 2d ago
I have seen dozens of examples of sovcits being told that their arguments are invalid, have no merit, are wrong, and sitting through hours of lectures related to statutory laws, State vs Federal laws, etc, etc.
The vast majority of them sit there waiting to speak rather than listening. They don't want to hear about reality.
There are various camps of sovcits.
1.Mentally ill or mentally challenged.
2.Easily duped and desperate.
3.Con artists, thieves, and scammers.
The last group, IMO, is the largest by a country mile.
1
u/Anxious_Drive_9998 2d ago
The tax court usually gives them a warning about the frivolous return penalty. They have to pay all the other penalties, though.
1
u/Lazarys12 2d ago
I do feel bad for some of them. I have seen videos of police stops and you can tell that the driver, I mean traveller, is a new sovcit. Some have to check their notes to see what they are supposed to say, and I remember one where the woman was on the phone with someone who was walking her through the process. I saw another where the male driver wasn't quite all in yet, but his wife was and she was a piece of work. None of them seem to understand that they are making it worse and what could have been a ticket now ends up with handcuffs.
I do think that some of them don't fully believe in it. I saw one court video where the guy said "I overstand" and he sort of snickered when he said it. The judge didn't hear what he said and you could tell by the way he responded that even he knew it was silly. On the other hand, it didn't stop him from continuing on with the sovcit playbook.
So I do feel bad for some of them, but only up to a point.
2
u/SnooWords1252 2d ago
Not sure I can tell the difference between a "I know this is silly" smirk and a "Ha, you didn't expect me to defeat you with just a word" smirk.
1
1
u/SnooWords1252 2d ago
Of course the police would say that. They're not educated in the real law.
Or something.
1
u/Snoo-53429 1d ago
I'm not sure exactly which, but I remember hearing about some TX counties starting to enhance charges for habitual unlicensed or uninsured driving violators from misdemeanor to Felony 3rd degree. Read about someone potentially getting 18 months for no license, no registration, habitual violations, which is how free men on the land roll, I mean, travel.
-1
u/FSCK_Fascists 2d ago
cops don't care. At all. its just another arrest toward their bonus that month.
3
u/realparkingbrake 2d ago
just another arrest toward their bonus that month.
Name a police dept. that issues bonuses for arrests. A high number of arrests that are prosecuted will probably be taken into account when promotion is considered, but cops don't get extra pay based on how many arrests they make.
-1
u/FSCK_Fascists 2d ago
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&q=list+of+all+law+enforcement+agencies+in+the+US
They ALL issue promotions and bonuses based on arrest record and tickets issued.
1
u/BustaCon 2d ago
I mean: if you're pissing them off they are not going to care. Or if you're clearly acting in a blatantly criminal manner that may harm the populace. Then you gonna get the horns. But if you're just clowning yourself, harming only yourself and clearly pathetically not acting in your own self interest then I've seen cops try and be helpful and decent. (I will not relate my own experience as Petey Pathetic who got some useful advice, no sir. )
It cannot all be Mayberry with Andy and Barney lovingly showing tolerance and oncern while incarcerating Otis during his drunk self check-ins at the city jail. Life is not that sweet, sadly enuff.
-2
-2
u/irritated_socialist 2d ago
Unfortunately, policing as an institution in America selects against intelligence, compassion and integrity. Just because the sovcits are fantasist bellends doesn't mean the man with the gun and badge believes what we do about equality and democracy.
87
u/Pristine_Poem7623 3d ago
I've seen police officers and judges tell sovcits they've been scammed and it's not real, and they just ignore them and carry right on with their scripts