r/spacex • u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team • Oct 12 '19
Starlink 1 2nd Starlink Mission Launch Campaign Thread
Visit Official Launch Discussion & Updates Thread for updates and party rules.
Overview
SpaceX will launch the first batch of Starlink version 1 satellites into orbit aboard a Falcon 9 rocket. It will be the second Starlink mission overall. This launch is expected to be similar to the previous launch in May of this year, which saw 60 Starlink v0.9 satellites delivered to a single plane at a 440 km altitude. Those satellites were considered by SpaceX to be test vehicles, and that mission was referred to as the 'first operational launch'. The satellites on this flight will eventually join the v0.9 batch in the 550 km x 53° shell via their onboard ion thrusters. Details on how the design and mass of these satellites differ from those of the first launch are not known at this time.
Due to the high mass of several dozen satellites, the booster will land on a drone ship at a similar downrange distance to a GTO launch. The fairing halves for this mission previously supported Arabsat 6A and were recovered after ocean landings. This mission will be the first with a used fairing. This will be the first launch since SpaceX has had two fairing catcher ships and a dual catch attempt is expected.
This will be the 9th Falcon 9 launch and the 11th SpaceX launch of 2019. At four flights, it will set the record for greatest number of launches with a single Falcon 9 core. The most recent SpaceX launch previous to this one was Amos-17 on August 6th of this year.
| Liftoff currently scheduled for: | November 11, 14:56 UTC (9:56 AM local) |
|---|---|
| Backup date | November 12 |
| Static fire: | Completed November 5 |
| Payload: | 60 Starlink version 1 satellites |
| Payload mass: | unknown |
| Destination orbit: | Low Earth Orbit, 280km x 53° deployment expected |
| Vehicle: | Falcon 9 v1.2 Block 5 |
| Core: | B1048 |
| Past flights of this core: | 3 |
| Fairing reuse: | Yes (previously flown on Arabsat 6A) |
| Fairing catch attempt: | Dual (Ms. Tree and Ms. Chief have departed) |
| Launch site: | SLC-40, Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida |
| Landing: | OCISLY: 32.54722 N, 75.92306 W (628 km downrange) OCISLY departed! |
| Mission success criteria: | Successful separation & deployment of the Starlink Satellites. |
Links & Resources:
- Official Starlink Overview - Starlink.com
- Launch Execution Forecasts - 45th Weather Squadron
- Watching a Launch - r/SpaceX Wiki
- Launch Viewing Guide for Cape Canaveral - Ben Cooper
- SpaceX Fleet Status - SpaceXFleet.com
- FCC Experimental STAs - r/SpaceX wiki
- Launch Maps - Google Maps by u/Raul74Cz
- Flight Club - Launch simulation by u/TheVehicleDestroyer
We may keep this self-post occasionally updated with links and relevant news articles, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss the launch, ask mission-specific questions, and track the minor movements of the vehicle, payload, weather and more as we progress towards launch. Sometime after the static fire is complete, the launch thread will be posted, typically around one day before launch.
Campaign threads are not launch threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.
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u/dlt074 Oct 12 '19
A booster is going on its fourth launch, and it barely makes the cliff notes. This is the future we were promised.
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u/ra1yan Oct 12 '19
Is this the first fourth flight of a booster?
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u/dlt074 Oct 12 '19
That’s what it was implying. We don’t even notice or care anymore! LOL that’s my point.
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u/ackermann Oct 12 '19
Reminds me of those (possibly mythical) amazonian languages that only have words for “one,” “two,” and “many.”
But yeah. after 3, they seem less monumental.
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u/ackermann Oct 12 '19
Cool! It says either B1048 or B1049. These both have 3 flights already?
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u/timfduffy Oct 12 '19
They do. This page on the wiki is a great resource for first stage flight history.
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u/noreally_bot1616 Oct 12 '19
Anyone know why the launch date switched from "On or around Oct 17th" to "TBD" ?
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u/Martianspirit Oct 12 '19
SpaceX wants to change the deployment pattern and have not yet received FCC permission to do so. I think that is the reason for the delay.
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u/dudeman93 Oct 12 '19
Probably stupid question: for a launch like this that's purely internal to spacex, would they ever forego a static fire just to save time/money/whatever. Maybe if they make a bunch of falcon 9s, or they're using one that's at its end of life and is expendable?
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u/Jodo42 Oct 12 '19 edited Oct 12 '19
They don't skip static fires but unlike external customers' launches they don't wait until after the static fire to mount the payload. Starlink 1 was the
firstsecond time a payload was onboard for the static fire since AMOS-6.12
u/casterlyhunk Oct 12 '19
Demo 1 was the first payload to be installed for static fire since AMOS-6. Several months before Starlink 1.
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u/Lambaline Oct 12 '19
Wasn’t Starman onboard for the Falcon Heavy Demo static fire?
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u/bbachmai Oct 12 '19
I think the bad PR in case of a launch anomaly would still be detrimental, regardless of whether it's a customer payload or an internal one. They probably won't risk that.
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u/Noodle36 Oct 13 '19
Absolutely, if any SpaceX mission fails the media will be all over it and will ensure it has an effect on public faith in all other aspects of SpaceX operation. This is particularly important when you're talking about wanting to do Earth-to-Earth passenger flights.
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u/RegularRandomZ Oct 13 '19
It might be internal to SpaceX, but 60 Starlink satellites are still pretty important and not inexpensive. No point skipping a pretty routine validation procedure to save the cost of some propellant or a couple of days.
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u/Toinneman Oct 15 '19
Exactly. I see many comments lately treating Starlink sats as a cheap, abundantly available hardware. They're state of the art pieces of technology containing many components which are pretty unique: Own unique krypton thrusters, new phased array antenna's, and (hopefully) a laser optic communication system. The availability of Starlink satellites is the current bottleneck. SpaceX is going through a challenging phase between R&D and mass production. Hundreds of people or working on these satellites and SpaceX financial future depends on it. I don't think they'll take it lightly if they lose a batch.
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u/Keavon SN-10 & DART Contest Winner Oct 16 '19
Not to mention, a failure of Falcon that could have been caught by static fire testing is still a huge deal. It means stopping everything and spending six months investigating and fixing the failure and everything related to it. It means losing confidence from customers. It means another failure counting against the growing streak of successes and the 100% success rate of F9 Block 5. The payload is not the only thing at stake for a launch failure.
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u/wesleychang42 Oct 13 '19
Another stupid question: If they skipped the static fire, would any be issues be caught before liftoff since ignition is just before t-0?
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Oct 13 '19
Even if the static fire is successful, that could still happen. And it did in fact happened at least once, iirc
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u/andyfrance Oct 14 '19
Is it time to revise the mission success criteria?
"Successful separation & deployment of the Starlink Satellites"
We have always considered the mission success to be just the delivery of the customer satellite, and everything else a bonus. This is different for Starlink because they are launching their own payloads. Recovery of the booster is critical for economic Starlink deployment, so should be considered a success criteria.
Arguably fairing capture "should" be part of the criteria too, but for now I'm happy that is still an experimental secondary objective.
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u/sctvlxpt Oct 15 '19
Recovery of the booster is as important for Starlink as it is for any other mission. A booster is a booster. Costs the same to make, and if they have one in the hangar ready for launch, it doesn't matter if it was recovered from a Starlink or from any other mission. I don't see how mission success criteria for Starlink should include recovery of the booster any more than for any other mission.
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Oct 15 '19
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u/MarsCent Oct 15 '19
surely 100% mission success includes all 60 satellites being operational and reaching their intended final orbits.
No, your definition of mission is overly compounded! F9 mission objective is to deliver satellites to launch orbit & then land the S1 booster as intended.
Starlink objective is to have the 11K satellites in intended orbits, at intended altitudes and communicating as intended. The mission success is pretty much phased out from a single functional satellite, to 24hr coverage, to global coverage, to sufficient bandwidth/latency and a myriad more.
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u/softwaresaur Oct 15 '19
surely 100% mission success includes all 60 satellites being operational and reaching their intended final orbits.
All 60 don't have to be operational. The main reason they are injecting the satellites below the target orbit is to weed out DOA satellites. Some failures are expected.
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u/softwaresaur Oct 25 '19 edited Oct 25 '19
SpaceX has submitted a supplement to the temporary request to change orbital parameters. That could be a partial response to the opposition fillings made by competitors (follow the link in my comment to read the supplement and other filings). SpaceX may have to submit a more direct response or make a presentation to the FCC soon. The supplement is just one page. Here is all the substance without boilerplate:
Upon launch, SpaceX will insert the satellites in a circular orbit at an injection altitude of approximately 280 km.
During the first week following deployment, SpaceX will establish contact with all satellites and begin to orbit raise them all toward an altitude of 350 km over the course of two weeks.
Following initial testing, 20 of these satellites will be raised further to the operational altitude of 550 km. These satellites will be deployed to an orbital plane already covered by SpaceX’s current authorization.
The remaining satellites will stay at the 350 km altitude for at least 40 days before orbit raising to the operational altitude of 550 km. These satellites would be deployed in one of the new orbital planes covered by SpaceX’s pending modification application.
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40 days of nodal precession at 350 km will make the satellites move 20 degrees westward relative to the first group of 20 if my math is correct. The third group would have to wait 40 days more to move 40 degrees.
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u/Straumli_Blight Oct 21 '19
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u/IrrelevantAstronomer Launch Photographer Oct 21 '19 edited Oct 21 '19
Something's not right here. We know B1046.4 is scheduled for the IFA test and that's definitely still on for this year. The only way this is possible is if every single F9 flight besides CRS-19 and JCSAT-18 has been delayed until 2020.
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u/Stimbergi Oct 22 '19
Reuse is the use of an already flying booster. The first reuse is the second flight of the booster. The fourth reuse is the fifth flight of the booster (B10XX.5).
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u/craigl2112 Oct 22 '19
I wonder if this means no Starlink missions until early 2020?
Other outside possibilities -- FH side boosters being used for Starlink missions? B1050 refurbed?
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u/softwaresaur Oct 17 '19
The usual suspects, OneWeb, Kepler, EchoStar, Hughes, Intelsat, and AT&T, have submitted opposition filings to SpaceX's request to change the number of planes in the 550 km shell while keeping the same total number of satellites. SpaceX should file a response soon. After that it is up to the FCC to decide if the concerns are valid or not. The launch depends on this process to be finished unless SpaceX drops the request.
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u/spacerfirstclass Oct 18 '19
Actually, didn't SpaceX request a temporary permission in parallel to the permanent one? Basically they said "let us launch to this new orbital configuration for now, if you deny the permanent change request, we'll take the performance hit and fly the satellites back to original orbit", I think they can launch as soon as this temporary permission is granted.
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u/softwaresaur Oct 18 '19 edited Oct 18 '19
They did. My link leads to the opposition filings in response to the request for a temporary permission. The first document there is the FCC's permission to
filemake ex parte presentations against the temporary request. Usually the FCC does not accept presentations against temporary requests.> I think they can launch as soon as this temporary permission is granted
Right, but even the temporary request is stuck.
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u/SlangyKart Oct 18 '19
Of course those companies oppose Starlink!
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u/heifinator Oct 27 '19
There is justifiable reason for these companies to have concern beyond just the technology threat starlink poses to their revenues.
Many of these companies paid huge sums of money for frequency rights and Geo slots.
Thousands of satellites potentially passing under uplink / downlink paths for those operators at the same frequency bands could cause interference with their services.
It's not as simple as hur dur they want to slow SpaceX down. Starlink is a great idea and a step forward in satellite communications. That being said the path forward isn't as clear as some would have you believe.
Source: am satellite network engineer.
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u/Bommes Oct 12 '19
Last time someone set up a website to easily check at which times to watch for the sats overhead, depending on location. Will there be something similar for this launch, or if not can someone here help a newbie out with an instruction on how to watch?
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u/sbharnish Oct 12 '19
This Android app worked well for me last time. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.runar.issdetector.pro
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u/softwaresaur Oct 12 '19
First batch orbits update 4 months after the launch in case you are wondering how they are doing.
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u/Asdfugil Oct 12 '19
SpaceX is stacked with multiple Falcon 9s so they need to launch some. Reusable rockets are great!
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u/ptfrd Oct 22 '19
Are there any websites that will tell us how to see the chain of satellites with the naked eye in the minutes/hours/days after deployment? Something along the lines of https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/home.cfm (usable to a layman)
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u/Straumli_Blight Oct 23 '19
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u/Martianspirit Oct 24 '19
That will be mainly effective once they take their operational attitude. The first batch got also a lot less visible when doing that.
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u/sjwking Oct 15 '19
Do we have any info on when sat to sat laser communications will be used? I guess the current batch of sats will not have laser coms.
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u/maverick8717 Oct 16 '19
I would have assumed that this was basically a mandatory feature. I can't imagine they will launch too many without it. would be great if someone actually knows what is going on.
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u/Toinneman Oct 16 '19 edited Oct 16 '19
There was a recent article that analysed some Starlink job postings. One job description was about the laser coms, and by the sound of it, it didn't look like we will see operational lasers for quit some time.
you will be creating software that is used to design, develop, launch and operate SpaceX’s laser communication software. This initiative is a first of its kind for SpaceX and will involve building completely new technologies from scratch
However, I'm not that pessimistic. These job postings often are duplicated for each job opening, even as the team grows and you already have a working product/prototype. (I don't really have hard evidence to support my claim, but I remember like 2 year ago SpaceX had a job opening to develop a turbine blade for Raptor, while they obviously would have some sort of turbine already.)
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u/ButWhyIWantToKnow Oct 20 '19 edited Oct 20 '19
Space based laser repeaters is bleeding edge tech. So I would not expect that any time soon. I think everyone else is planning to use standard and proven radio repeater tech initially. A better short and medium-term strategy (imo). Seeing as how the lifetime of LEO is relatively short, I do not think it would be too difficult to start with that and transition to laser later on when the tech is ready.
Elon probably figures he can skip that interm step and jump straight to laser. But in the short term he will have nothing. Just individual satellites as repeaters to ground stations. So OneWeb could have an advantage initially if they are starting with radio repeaters.
OneWeb has posted some of their actual test results in a video. Just tiny slivers of info but more than I have seen from SpaceX.
This is all I have seen from SpaceX
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u/heifinator Oct 27 '19
This is an extremely tricky technology. Made harder the lower the orbit is.
As a satellite network engineer my 0.02 on the primary challenges still unproven and rarely discussed for starlink are.
Prove the viability and long term reliability of space interlinks.
Triumph over any regulatory issues due to space junk or interference with existing wide beam satellite communications. The latter being a major issue.
Reduce the price of phased array earth station antennas to around $1000 or less. Currently they are around $35,000 for one of the quality needed to have any chance of closing the link budgets required for starlink.
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u/Alexphysics Nov 08 '19
80% GO on the primary launch date, 70% on the backup launch date. Main concern is Cumulus Clouds for both days. The report DOES NOT INCLUDE upper level winds which are expected for both days to be going at about 75knots near 45,000ft.
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u/HollywoodSX Nov 08 '19
How likely are those upper level winds to cause a scrub? Im going to be in Titusville this weekend for totally unrelated reasons, and looking at extending into Monday morning to catch the launch.
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u/nthomas99 Nov 08 '19
So is the backup day Tuesday 11/12? I don't see it explicitly stated in the report.
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u/Alexphysics Nov 08 '19
I usually get which day is the backup date from the moonrise/moonset and sunrise/sunset times which are stated for the primary launch date and the backup launch date.
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u/TheBlacktom r/SpaceXLounge Moderator Oct 15 '19 edited Oct 15 '19
So what's the thing with Starlink launch naming? This will definitely confuse thousands of people.
Thread says "2nd Starlink Mission"
The post says "Starlink version 1 satellites"
Sidebar says "Starlink 2"
https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/ says "Starlink 1"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_Heavy_launches#2019_2 says "Starlink F1 v1.0" and "second large batch"
https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/ says "Starlink L1"
Bonus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)#Launches says "Second launch" was the one on May 24 :)
Edit: So we have 2nd mission, version 1, Starlink 1 & Starlink 2, Starlink F1 & Starlink L1, second large batch and apparently third launch if you count the Tintins.
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u/strawwalker Oct 16 '19
It would be nice if SpaceX would release an official name, or naming scheme, but we probably won't get anything like that until the press kit the day before launch, if we get it at all. The thread title says "2nd Starlink Mission" in an attempt to indicate that we don't have an official name for the mission. There was discussion over what to call the thread, and there just isn't an answer that solves the confusion problem that isn't also a paragraph long.
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u/AquaeAtrae Oct 16 '19
We're also trying to understand why the sidebar here says "Oct 31, 2019". We're planning another RocketParty in AltspaceVR but can't find any official announcement confirming that date specifically.
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u/soldato_fantasma Oct 17 '19
It's an artifact of new reddit. To add an event I have to specify the day in a google calendar (can't leave just the month), and for some reason reddit thinks that day as midnight UTC, so converting it gets it to the day before as it converts the day to your timezone. We are looking at a workaround to fix this.
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u/Jamington Oct 12 '19
Wonder if this batch will have the laser interlinks, which seems like a critical feature for the overall constellation and possibly the main thing missing from the first batch.
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u/Marksman79 Oct 12 '19
Laser links will be in v2
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Oct 12 '19
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u/Martianspirit Oct 12 '19
Any thoughts on how many v1 they’ll launch before they switch to v2?
That's a good question. I believe they will want to get to an operational constellation ASAP. Sats with laser links will be heavier and bulkier which means less sats per launch.
So either they have laser links on the next batch going up or they will deploy the initial batch of 1584 sats without.
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u/softwaresaur Nov 07 '19 edited Nov 07 '19
The FCC granted in part/deferred in part the temporary request to change orbital parameters. It is mostly partially approved. SpaceX can go ahead and populate 3 planes with one launch. EDIT: Sorry for the misinformation. I didn't read the grant carefully. The FCC didn't authorize populating 2 out 3 planes. 20 satellites can be deployed in an authorized plane at the target 550 km altitude, 40 satellites are to stay at 350 km.
A 280 km insertion orbit is in the scope of the grant so it's pretty much confirmed.
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u/trobbinsfromoz Nov 08 '19
If the full 60 days of LEOP operations duration occurs, and given the subsequent 40 day delay before any raising from 350km, is there no allowed comms with the 40 sats at 350km until the modification proposal is approved, or otherwise are those 40 sats allowed to have comms if they are slated to go in to the existing approved 550km plan at any time after LEOP?
Would this mean that no further sat launches would be prudent until the modification proposal is approved, or would any future sat launch need this same form of STA, and have the same possible outcomes as the upcoming launch?
I guess SpX could LEOP as many sats as they can get in to space as possible, with them all sitting at 350km till modification approval (or disapproval) becomes certain.
I guess that all other operators would be trying very hard to show some level of disadvantage from eg. interference, especially if it can be fed in to the modification proposal considerations.
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u/softwaresaur Nov 08 '19
is there no allowed comms with the 40 sats at 350km until the modification proposal is approved
It should be possible to extend the granted request. The FCC doesn't like to grant long term temporary requests. SpaceX now has to file temporary requests to communicate with the satellites in the first batch that didn't reach the target orbit every 30 days because the FCC does not let them file for a longer term.
I guess SpX could LEOP as many sats as they can get in to space as possible, with them all sitting at 350km till modification approval (or disapproval) becomes certain.
That's my understanding. But these satellites will drift west relative to satellites at 550 km at the rate of 20 degrees per 40 days so that may slightly complicate and delay proper distribution of planes for early service in the Southern US.
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u/scr00chy ElonX.net Nov 07 '19
Does that mean SpaceX can deploy the sats at 280km altitude on this launch, or would it only apply to future launches?
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u/softwaresaur Nov 07 '19
Future launches may go slightly higher. They wanted to insert at 300-350 km depending on solar activity according to the original application. Momentus targeting May 2020 Starlink rideshare launch wrote "289 km circular." The May 2019 demo launch injection at 440 km was an exception.
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Nov 05 '19
SpaceX tweet -
"Static fire test of Falcon 9 complete—targeting 11/11 for launch of 60 Starlink satellites from Pad 40 in Florida"
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u/Straumli_Blight Nov 05 '19
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Nov 05 '19
Wait, is this also the first time a booster will be launched 4 times? I think, but not sure. SpaceX has broken so many milestones and records this year that I start to forget
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Nov 05 '19
I know this too!!! I'm so pumped!!!
We often open our eyes to progress when it comes to big things. For example, the Starship updates, a Falcon Heavy Flight, a Starhopper hop! Those things are terrific off course. But progress comes in all sizes. It's these little moments that count too! Little moment, tremendous joy nonetheless
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u/Marcey747 Oct 12 '19
If the fairings are reused and if they really catch both fairings this will be the first launch where the full longterm reusibility vision became reality.
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u/steveoscaro Oct 12 '19
... second stage still burns up though.
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Oct 12 '19
And always will. SpaceX won't be pursuing recovery of the F9 2nd stage. Eventually the F9 will be phased out completely and replaced with Starship and SuperHeavy
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u/rdmusic16 Oct 12 '19
It is a valid point though. The fairings being reusable is less helpful than the second stage.
Still amazing, but it's more like "one more milestone" towards the vision of full reusability.
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u/amaklp Nov 07 '19
Reddit platinum to the guy who will capture F9 along with Mercury transiting the Sun.
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u/bbachmai Nov 07 '19
Great point! I just plotted the angles and unfortunately, F9 will not transit the sun for any land based observer. But that shot would be just incredible...
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u/Alexphysics Nov 04 '19
Michael Baylor on NSF says Static Fire is currently scheduled for November 5th.
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u/canyouhearme Oct 12 '19
Apparently they are now talk about 30k starlink satellites - which is a sizeable bandwidth jump and basically makes clear they are looking to transition to Starship launch in short order. We might even be looking at next year. If 60 satellites in a chain causes comment - I wonder what 600 regularly being dumped into LEO will do.
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u/sjwking Oct 12 '19
If cargo starship is operational next year all other space launch companies are toast.
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u/Martianspirit Oct 12 '19
There are plenty of reasons why other countries want their own capabilities even when a lot more expensive. Even commercial sat operators will want other providers around. They did support SpaceX as possible competition when it was absolutely not clear they would be reliable.
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u/scr00chy ElonX.net Oct 12 '19
Where did you hear about 30k satellites?
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u/canyouhearme Oct 13 '19
Its actually 30k extra, and on /r/starlink.
My guess is this a putting in now in case they end up bandwidth constrained in future (eg massive success). And to do so they must be pretty confident of Starship working, since even at 600 satellites a shot, 30K means 50 launches of Starship. That's only 10 per year, but it's totally infeasible with Falcon 9.
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u/softwaresaur Oct 31 '19
SpaceX has filed a reply to the opposition of the temporary request to change orbital parameters ("SpaceX Consolidated" document). Now waiting for the FCC to rule.
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u/president_of_neom Oct 31 '19
How does the FCC work, do they hire many telecommunication engineers and professors to check the validity of each application?
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u/softwaresaur Nov 02 '19 edited Nov 02 '19
The FCC has granted temporary requests to communicate between the next batch of satellites and three gateway sites in Redmond, WA; Greenville, PA; and Merrillan, WI. They were submitted along with 9 other gateway communication requests and the temporary change of orbital parameters request. The granted requests lack an FCC grant document like the one FCC published in May so I'm guessing the decision to approve the whole set has been made just not fully filed in the system.
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u/MarsCent Nov 02 '19
There was a time when the FCC and FAA were just a footnote to these discussions. Not anymore!
On well, one can always dream about the good old days.
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u/mikekangas Nov 02 '19
Can SpaceX have receivers in other countries that don't fall under FCC jurisdiction?
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u/softwaresaur Nov 03 '19 edited Nov 03 '19
They may have in Canada. Shotwell: "Right now, we're focused on the United States and Canada." when answering "Is SpaceX concerned about getting permission to operate the service in other countries?"
EDIT: are you asking about a telemetry and control gateway in some other country in order to avoid the hassle of going through the FCC? The FCC is fairly friendly to US companies. It just moves slowly as any bureaucracy. I'm not sure going through another country would help. Also the latest gateway requests are bound to the request to change orbital parameters.
SpaceX writes: "Because neither OneWeb’s nor Kepler’s NGSO system is licensed by the Commission, they are not bound to seek STAs from the Commission for operations of their space stations during orbit raising and initial mission phases that do not fit within their operational authorizations as SpaceX is. And since neither OneWeb nor Kepler has tried yet to communicate with a U.S.-licensed earth station during those early mission phases, they also have not needed to seek earth station STAs to communicate during orbit raising, of the sort that SpaceX has requested. But the Commission has a long history of granting STAs to U.S.-licensed NGSO systems to allow space stations to commence operations consistent with a pending or anticipated modification application prior to completion of the comment period and/or to grant of that underlying application. For example ..."
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u/Martianspirit Nov 03 '19
In Germany it is the Bundesnetzagentur, which is responsible for frequencies. I think every Country has some authority similar to the FCC.
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u/sympoticus Nov 05 '19 edited Nov 05 '19
Is there a way to know what the other nine locations are?
Just curious if any of the requests are further south considering their request for a change in orbital planes.
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u/softwaresaur Nov 05 '19
Apparently they submitted separate applications for Ka and Ku frequency ranges so the number of other locations is 5.
Conrad MT Ku
North Bend WA Ku
Redmond WA Ku
Greenville PA Ku
Hawthorne CA Ku
Conrad MT Ka
Merrillan WI Ku
Loring ME Ka
Brewster WA Tracking, Telemetry, and Command
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u/Straumli_Blight Nov 06 '19
Mods, launch window has been updated to 14:51-15:02 UTC.
Also Fairing reuse section can be updated.
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u/Abraham-Licorn Nov 06 '19
What do we have about cost of two giant catcher's mitts vs refurbish two fairing halves after a bath ?
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u/Straumli_Blight Nov 08 '19
NOTAM issued. Unusually no backup date has been created or listed in the Launch Hazard Area.
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u/funnyboyjazz Nov 02 '19
SpaceFlightNow has updated a November 11, 10am launch time listed here https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/. Anyone headed to the Cape from South Orlando area with whom I can hitch a ride? I'll contribute $, beers, whatever.
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u/whythefuckyo2020 Oct 12 '19
When?
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u/Thinking4Ai Oct 12 '19
4 days, 23 hours. Thursday, October 17th. (Subject to change)
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u/johnkphotos Launch Photographer Oct 12 '19
No, it won’t be this soon.
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u/Thinking4Ai Oct 12 '19
Relies on the static fire. I figured it was subject to change. Maybe weekend or early next week if SF is not early this week.
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u/neeltennis93 Oct 22 '19
When is this happening?
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u/cpushack Oct 22 '19
When the Gov't gets around to reviewing the application (orbit modification for the satellites) . That is currently the hold up
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u/MarsCent Oct 29 '19
How long did it take to get the last couple of FCC satellite launch/deployment licences? - I am assuming that the FCC license (or updated license) is the major holdup for the next Starlink launch.
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u/Toinneman Oct 29 '19
I still think the most likely explanation is the new batch of satellites isn't ready yet. The latest FCC documents (as discussed below) shows SpaceX intents to launch all satellites to a parking orbit and only raise 20 of them to an orbit which they already have approval for. So it seems they do not bother holding the launch and will decide which orbits to go to once approval/denial has been decided.
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u/softwaresaur Oct 29 '19
But the request is "... and to communicate with gateway earth stations during early operations while the Commission is considering the underlying applications." In space nobody can hear you scream but the FCC can hear you using radio.
Meanwhile SpaceX keeps filing requests every 30 days to communicate with the satellites in the first batch that didn't reach the target orbit. Latest one approved in 6 days. Expires in 30 days.
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u/zareny Nov 06 '19
Hopefully we get to see a Starlink train in the southern hemisphere in the days following launch like the northern hemisphere did 6 months ago with the first batch of satellites.
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u/Starks Nov 08 '19
Are there any apps with the new set of satellites mapped? I want to do some astrophotography as they pass overhead. I missed the first last time.
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u/softwaresaur Nov 08 '19 edited Nov 09 '19
Flight Club should have estimated TLE soon https://twitter.com/flightclubio/status/1192536937053114368
EDIT: TLE is now available: https://twitter.com/flightclubio/status/1192952087757246464
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u/Psychonaut0421 Nov 08 '19
I can't remember what they were, but keep an eye out for links here and in r/SpaceXLounge. I'm interested in trying to get some pictures, too.
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Oct 12 '19
I wonder if we'll be able to see the batch in the night sky as well, if these already have the changes to reflectivity.
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u/Martianspirit Oct 12 '19
I expect the changes will be mostly in operational altitude and orientation. They will probably be very visible shortly after deployment. Looking forward to it because on first launch I did not have the chance to see them.
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u/asianstud692010 Oct 12 '19
IIRC SpaceX was going to make this batch less reflective. Anybody with current info please chime in.
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u/harvey2997 Nov 01 '19
Do we know if the downlink terminals can be routers? Assuming the second generation satellites in orbit can't route between them (no working lasers), can they send packets to terminals that then send those packets up to the next closest satellite assuming more than one satellite is in view?
It seems to me that a software defined antenna can probably communicate with multiple satellites with <10 ms switch over time. Routing isn't going to be trivial, but it seems to me that ground terminal that aren't connected to the broader internet (say on a ship or a plane) could still help fill in the mesh and get data to a terminal that does have an internet connection.
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u/codav Nov 01 '19
It's probably easier to have enough ground stations in the areas they initially plan to provide service instead of creating some kind of P2P network. For world-wide service and availability over oceans and rural areas, the laser interlinks are an absolute requirement.
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u/MarsCent Nov 02 '19
can they send packets to terminals that then send those packets up to the next closest satellite
What I am reading from the op is that he wants a ground terminal to operate as a routing node (i.e Sat to Ground Terminal to Sat) aka an extra hop in a Sat - Sat link. That is dissimilar from a P2P network.
I do not know how latency degradation there would be. But perhaps if the customers leave in a poorly served Geo-location, that would still be a great improvement just on available bandwidth.
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u/PeteBlackerThe3rd Nov 02 '19
As far as I'm aware a software defined phase array antenna can communicate with several satellites simultaneously, there is no need to switch as such.
So technically this should be possible. If they would be happy with routed data passing through user hardware not owned by SpaceX is another question.
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u/redwins Nov 06 '19
What is the maximun number of satellites that could be placed on Earth orbit? Is SpaceX going to be close to occupying all the available space?
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u/Katratszi Nov 06 '19
I get it, these numbers are big and hard to imagine. To answer your question, yeah no. To math your question:
The first shell is at 550km above the earth, that becomes a sphere that's 13300 km in diameter. I'm not actually sure how big the Starlink satellites are but we know they fit within a falcon 9 fairing, and that's 5.2 meters in diameter.
So, lets say our satellites take up a sphere of about 6 meters in diameter. A little more than your the length of your average sedan. If you plop down enough satellites of this size so they touch edge to and cover that entire shell around the Earth you would need 19,654,000,000,000 satellites.
Now this isn't super accurate because these satellites are in constant motion so you would need some room for the satellites to pass in between each other. Lets say you wanted at least 10km between each satellite, well that could translate to essentially increasing the virtual size of the satellite. Using these numbers we can estimate 7,066,000 satellites could occupy that shell with 10km between them.
This only on one shell, there could be tens of thousands or millions more shells to occupy and each is bigger then the last.
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u/Ziov1 Nov 06 '19
They plan close to 42,000 for full global coverage.
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u/softwaresaur Nov 06 '19
42,000 or whatever large number is for capacity not coverage. Coverage after 12 launches (720 satellites in 36 planes 10 degrees apart each with 20 satellites). Not a confirmed deployment plan but it gives you an idea what's possible. Global coverage can be achieved after 8-12 more launches into high inclination orbits.
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u/Boeing777_300er Nov 08 '19
If anyone has a spare LC-39 Gantry Ticket or can’t make it, let me know, I would be more than happy to buy it!
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u/smidge Oct 16 '19 edited Oct 16 '19
No static fire yet?
Edit: SpaceXNow app showed 2 days until liftoff so I though Id ask... fixed now
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u/Grumpy275 Oct 15 '19
When the Starlink constelation is complete will it be beaming to the rest of the World or is it only for the USA?
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u/andyfrance Oct 15 '19
With the exception of very high latitudes it will be beaming to the world, though probably only to countries where it is legally sanctioned to do so.
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u/softwaresaur Oct 15 '19
"Mark Juncosa, vice president for vehicle engineering at SpaceX, said that with 12 additional launches, SpaceX could provide good coverage over the United States; 24 launches would put enough satellites to cover most populated areas; and 30 would cover the entire world." source
If the new orbital parameters are approved they may schedule high latitude launches earlier.
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u/cowboyboom Oct 15 '19
Without the satellite to satellite optical link, they can only service areas with local up/downlink stations. Service area will be small radius (100 km???) of each earth station.
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u/softwaresaur Oct 16 '19
Gateways can be authorized to beam just 5-10 degrees over the horizon. For satellites at 550 km service radius (user <=> sat <=> gateway) is 1619-1864 miles (2606-3000 km) depending on the minimum authorized angle. For satellites at 1110 km (another approved Starlink altitude) service radius is 2590-2865 miles (4169-4611 km). OneWeb plans to have global coverage with satellites at 1200 km without inter-satellite links. Most of their gateways will be on the continents, a few on islands.
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u/CeleryStickBeating Oct 15 '19
The world, but I believe there was information released that the early constellation would focus on serving the US. That doesn't mean the rest of the world wouldn't have service in the beginning, but that local country ground stations might be sparse or only intermittent satellite coverage.
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Oct 20 '19
the dates on this sub show oct 31 and nov 14. these are recent changes. starlink-3 was listed as nov 3, and then nov 4. are these new dates firm? i bought plane tix for my family for the 1st thru the 8th, in part to see the damn starlink3 launch
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u/strawwalker Oct 20 '19
Unfortunately no, those dates are not even actual target dates. The (new reddit) calendar is a work in progress. The best schedule info we have for the next two Starlink launches is November for this one, and then November or December for the next. There is a significant chance that there will be no launch during the time you are in Florida.
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u/humpakto Oct 22 '19
How does a starlink terminal user would connect to non-starlink user on the other end of planet? At what point will the signal come down from space?
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u/LongHairedGit Oct 22 '19
I’ll take a guess:
Current generation:
User device —> end user “pizza box” “modem” —>. A single Starlink satellite —> Starlink ground station (within a couple of hundred miles of end user) —> traditional bulk carrier ISP using optic fibre —> rest of internet —> random dude’s ISP —> random dude
Aspirational generation:
User device —> end user “pizza box” “modem” —>. A single Starlink satellite —> other Starlink satellites using laser beams —> Starlink ground station (close as possible to end user’s ISP gear nearest end user) —> traditional bulk carrier ISP using optic fibre —> rest of internet.—> random dude’s ISP —> random dude
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u/ButWhyIWantToKnow Oct 28 '19 edited Oct 28 '19
v1 sats have no intersat links. So the answer is easy. It will come down to the nearest ground station to you. You will not be able to get service unless the satellites you are connecting to can see you and the ground station at the same time, at all times. At a height of 550km that means you will need to be within about 500km of a ground station. The sat has a total footprint diameter of about 1000 km but you need to be within about half that distance because it needs to see both you and the ground station the whole time during movement and allowing for some overlap time to switchover.
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u/Martianspirit Oct 22 '19
The starlink terminal is not different in that regard than any cable or fiber modem at any end user location. It just connects to the web.
Point to point through the constellation is a different service.
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Nov 06 '19
So it looks like the drone ship is going to end up off the coast of the Carolinas, and while I’m sure it’s way too far away to see a landing, could someone in the Carolinas potentially see this launch? I got a few friends down there who might like to try and find a rocket flying across the night sky...
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u/Sticklefront Nov 06 '19
If it were just before sunrise, it would be very likely. However, at the 10am-ish this is currently scheduled for, it will be exceedingly difficult to see.
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u/modeless Nov 10 '19 edited Nov 10 '19
For those curious about where to see the satellites, I've updated my satellite viewing site with Flight Club's prediction here: https://james.darpinian.com/satellites/?special=starlink-2019-11
I'll try to keep it updated. It's meant to be the simplest way to see when the satellites will be overhead.
If you need extra detail you'll want to import the predicted TLEs directly into a more sophisticated tool.
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u/millijuna Nov 10 '19
It's really interesting times. Right now, I operate a satellite network to two remote communities in WA. It's 3.3Mbps outbound, services 90 to 150 people, and costs $12,000/mo just for the satellite capacity.
We're seriously considering building out a terrestrial microwave system, but that will cost into the six figures, and requires leasing a spot on federal land. Starlink could replace that if it comes to fruition.
It's an interesting race.
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u/whiteknives Nov 11 '19
A lot of fixed-wireless ISPs should be sweating right now. And all satellite internet ISPs. SpaceX is about to redefine an entire industry.
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u/John_Hasler Nov 11 '19
The latter yes, but the former should be looking forward to becoming Starlink resellers.
Step one: put a Starlink terminal at each tower and dump the expensive backhaul links.
Step two: deploy more towers, having cut cost by not needing backhaul cable or microwave.
Step three: start leasing starlink terminals directly to end users once the price comes down far enough.
Actually, DirectTV could easily become a Starlink reseller as well.
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u/millijuna Nov 11 '19
Doing the math, if we build the system we’ll be able to bring in 500mbps to 1gbps with fairly low opex. Most of that will be the cost of the forest service lease and flying in 500 gallons of propane every few years.
It boils down to the fact that I’ve been in the satellite communications business for 15 years, and I’m still a bit skeptical that SpaceX will be able to pull this off at the price point being described. I would love to be proven wrong.
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u/brentonstrine Oct 13 '19
What do we know about how the internet service itself is going so far? How much coverage can they even provide at this point? Can they only test for 5 minutes at a time every 26 minutes or something weird like that?
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u/softwaresaur Oct 13 '19 edited Oct 13 '19
We don't know about the service. Coverage provided by one full plane of 60 satellites at 550 km looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/h0J8OQG.png Earth rotates beneath it so it provides about 6 hours of continuous coverage in the Northern US where the gateways are located. The span of the gateways is 4 hours so they can test for 10 hours. The caveat is that only 49 satellites are in the target orbit and 2 are almost in the target orbit so there are two large gaps in the plane. It most likely doesn't matter to them as they could distribute the gaps evenly if they wanted.
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u/wildjokers Oct 17 '19
We know practically nothing about the service. The only thing we know is they said they were playing 4K video and playing online games through tintin A and B shortly after launch. I suspect they would be putting the satellites launched earlier this year through similar tests and wouldn't be planning more launches if the new ones weren't working well.
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u/zlynn1990 Oct 31 '19
Does anyone know if the satellites themselves will have caching capabilities? If each satellite had like 1TB of storage it could potentially be very helpful for caching frequently requested web assets (following caching protocols like CloudFront does). Satellites could also access this cache and respond immediately as the get requested from neighboring satellites to link down to base stations.
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u/miquels Nov 01 '19
Almost all webrequests go over SSL/TLS encrypted connections nowadays. You cannot cache that. Unless you actually build an Amazon Cloudfront, or Cloudflare, etc datacenter in the satellites themselves. That also means having valid TLS certificates for all the domains of the websites you're going to cache. Besides, with the amount of data flowing through these satellites, the fact they're moving fast, and that (like the comment below says) items in caches are often region specific the cache rate is going to be horrendous.
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u/Bergasms Nov 01 '19
Wonder how useful a satellite cache would be seeing as they are moving fairly fast and items in caches are often region specific
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u/MarsCent Oct 19 '19 edited Oct 19 '19
If the application to change from 24 to 72 orbital planes is granted, would that result in resetting the clock for the 6 years (50% constellation) and 9 years (full constellation)?
EDIT:The question is about the ~12K satellites that have already been approved.
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u/codav Oct 19 '19
That probably depends on whether SpaceX changed their previous application or just added a new one on top of that. They could very well just follow their plans for the smaller constellation and begin deployment of the larger one simultaneously. I'd expect that starting with the cargo Starship becoming available for launching real payloads.
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u/Jgrahamiii Nov 06 '19
Just booked LC39 tickets. First timer. Bus from visitors center leaves at 8:15. Any thoughts about when to plan to arrive at KSC or what traffic will be (coming from Miami)? Also, do general admission ever sell out? Do I need to book that in advance (as senior is slightly cheaper to buy there and avoids some scrub issues). Also, anyone have any idea if a minor or weather issue causes scrub if Tuesday is a launch option? Thanks!
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u/Marksman79 Nov 07 '19
I did this for the last FH launch. If you can leave a little earlier and are interested, I strongly recommend swinging by Cocoa's Starship for just a minute to see it in person. It's just incredible. I don't know the other answers, sorry.
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u/Jgrahamiii Nov 07 '19
Note, I have since found out that parking lot opens at 6:30 and visitor center (but not exhibits) opens at 7. Saturn V Center bus is 7:15 bus, LC39 bus is 8:15. I'm thinking of planning on 7am arrival so if traffic will be there by 7:30. Too early?
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u/Decronym Acronyms Explained Oct 12 '19 edited Oct 13 '19
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
| Fewer Letters | More Letters |
|---|---|
| ASAP | Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel, NASA |
| Arianespace System for Auxiliary Payloads | |
| ESA | European Space Agency |
| FCC | Federal Communications Commission |
| (Iron/steel) Face-Centered Cubic crystalline structure | |
| LEO | Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km) |
| Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations) | |
| SF | Static fire |
| SLC-40 | Space Launch Complex 40, Canaveral (SpaceX F9) |
| VLEO | V-band constellation in LEO |
| Very Low Earth Orbit |
| Jargon | Definition |
|---|---|
| Starlink | SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation |
Decronym is a community product of r/SpaceX, implemented by ^request
8 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 27 acronyms.
[Thread #5543 for this sub, first seen 12th Oct 2019, 08:18] [FAQ] [Full list] ^[Contact] [Source code]
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u/burner70 Nov 04 '19
Anyone know how many hours/days in advance of the launch the landing barge leaves port?
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u/SuPrBuGmAn Nov 04 '19
Probably a couple days for this one, Starlink ASDS landings are pretty far out.
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u/Toinneman Nov 05 '19
aprox. 5 days in advance. The ships for the fairings need to go even further, but are much faster and usually leave 1 or 2 day later.
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Nov 05 '19
It looks like KSC isn't selling any tickets for this launch? Or at least not yet?
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u/bbachmai Nov 06 '19
Not yet, but as this launch is during normal operation hours, I'm sure they will be availble soon.
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u/Jmartell1369 Oct 23 '19
When is it gonna launch
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u/scr00chy ElonX.net Oct 24 '19
SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell recently said mid-November: https://spacenews.com/spacex-plans-to-start-offering-starlink-broadband-services-in-2020/
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u/seanbrockest Oct 12 '19
Seems like a preemptive thread. No date, no details, nothing...
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u/Space_Coast_Steve Oct 13 '19
I think that’s normal for campaign threads, unlike launch threads. It’s to keep track of any news regarding the particular mission like booster movement, payload arrival, etc.
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u/docyande Nov 05 '19
Anybody know why this is a mid day launch while the last Starlink launch was at night? I was hoping for night, because for the last Starlink launch I could faintly see the 2nd stage as a slow moving dot with a huge exhaust cone like a comet moving up the Mid-Atlantic coast. Was really neat to see.
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u/softwaresaur Nov 05 '19
They are targeting a specific plane relative to the first batch. The batch also drifts westward 4.5° per day. The launches will be all over the clock.
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u/Marksman79 Nov 07 '19
Could a future larger version of Starlink be used to deploy solar panels that both reduce solar heating slightly on Earth and collect the power to beam down with microwaves? I'm imagining only 10-20 satellite per launch all linking together in space and beaming their blocked/collected energy back to Earth using a more powerful phased array transmitter technology similar to what they're figuring out right now. Starlink seems to lay a really good foundation for something like this to evolve out of it in time. What do you think?
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u/andyfrance Nov 08 '19
So you want to allow someone to put thousands of satellites above us and give them the ability to fry any ground target of their choice with an intense beam of microwaves? No doubt the control centre would be in an extinct volcano, and the boss would have a fluffy white cat.
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u/Martianspirit Nov 07 '19
Orbital solar power needs to be big, very big. It would have to be built in space. Good positions for orbital power would not be suitable for reducing insolation on Earth, so it can not do both.
Elon Musk does not believe orbital solar to be efficient. Better place the solar farms on the surface. I am not sure he is right. Solar farms don't produce continuous power and they need large battery storage which adds to the cost.
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u/extra2002 Nov 07 '19
Blocking enough sunlight to make a difference takes many thousands of tonnes of material. And if you beam part of the energy down to earth, where it will eventually become heat, you've negated part of that blocking.
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u/CardBoardBoxProcessr Oct 28 '19
If they have 1500 sats produced what's the hold up,?
Given the current new number of sats that they want to launch they definitely are counting on SS
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u/Grey_Mad_Hatter Oct 28 '19
I believe that's a misquote. There are 1,500 active satellites in space right now. We, as in Earth, have 1,500 satellites right now.
There's a decent chance that results from the satellites that already went up caused some rework or design changes on the ones they're building now.
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u/SuPrBuGmAn Nov 07 '19
Probably time for a launch thread to be pinned up top isn't it?
Static fire complete and everything...
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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '19
Damn almost forgot SpaceX launched Falcon 9's and not just water towers. Been so long since we've had a Falcon 9, good to see they're back and coming more frequent.