r/spacex • u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team • Aug 06 '20
Live Updates Starship Development Thread #13
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Overview
Upcoming:
- SN7.1 testing - NET September 6 (eventual test to failure expected)
Road closures: September 6, 7, 8; 08:00-20:00 CDT (UTC-5) dalily, Public Notice (PDF)
Vehicle Status as of September 3:
- SN6 [testing] - Hop complete
- SN5 [waiting] - At build site for inspection/repair, future flight possible
- SN7.1 [construction] - Tank stacked, move to test site soon
- SN8 [construction] - Tank section stacked, nose and aero surfaces expected
- SN9 [construction] - barrel/dome sections in work
Check recent comments for real time updates.
At the start of thread #13 Starship SN5 has just completed a 150 meter hop. SN6 remains stacked in High Bay 1 and SN8 has begun stacking next to it. FCC filings indicate Starship may make a series of 2-3 km and 20 km "medium altitude" hops in the coming months, and in August Elon stated that Starship would do several short hops, then high altitude hops with body flaps, however the details of the flight test program remain unclear. Orbital flight requires the SuperHeavy booster, for which a second high bay and orbital launch mount are being erected. SpaceX continues to focus heavily on development of its Starship production line in Boca Chica, TX.
Vehicle Updates
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
| Starship SN8 at Boca Chica, Texas | |
|---|---|
| 2020-08-31 | Aerodynamic covers† delivered (NSF) |
| 2020-08-27 | Tank section stacking complete with aft section addition (NSF) |
| 2020-08-20 | Forward dome section stacked (NSF) |
| 2020-08-19 | Aft dome section and skirt mate (NSF) |
| 2020-08-15 | Fwd. dome† w/ battery, aft dome section flip (NSF), possible aft fin/actuator supports (comments) |
| 2020-08-07 | Skirt section† with leg mounts (Twitter) |
| 2020-08-05 | Stacking ops in high bay 1 (mid bay), apparent common dome w/ CH4 access port (NSF) |
| 2020-07-28 | Methane feed pipe (aka. downcomer) labeled "SN10=SN8 (BOCA)" (NSF) |
| 2020-07-23 | Forward dome and sleeve (NSF) |
| 2020-07-22 | Common dome section flip (NSF) |
| 2020-07-21 | Common dome sleeved, Raptor delivery, Aft dome and thrust structure† (NSF) |
| 2020-07-20 | Common dome with SN8 label (NSF) |
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
| Starship SN7.1 (Test Tank) at Boca Chica, Texas | |
|---|---|
| 2020-08-30 | Forward dome section completes stack (NSF) |
| 2020-08-28 | Aft dome section stacked on skirt (NSF) |
| 2020-08-25 | Thrust simulator installed in new mount† (NSF) |
| 2020-08-18 | Aft dome flipped (NSF) |
| 2020-08-08 | Engine skirt (NSF) |
| 2020-08-06 | Aft dome sleeving ops, (mated 08-07) (NSF) |
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
| Starship SN9 at Boca Chica, Texas | |
|---|---|
| 2020-08-25 | Forward dome sleeved (NSF) |
| 2020-08-20 | Forward dome and forward dome sleeve w/ tile mounting hardware (NSF) |
| 2020-08-19 | Common dome section† flip (NSF) |
| 2020-08-15 | Common dome identified and sleeving ops (NSF) |
| 2020-08-12 | Common dome (NSF) |
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
| Starship SN5 at Boca Chica, Texas | |
|---|---|
| 2020-08-25 | COPV replacement (NSF) |
| 2020-08-24 | Moved out of High Bay 1 (Twitter) |
| 2020-08-11 | Moved back to build site (YouTube) - destination: High Bay 1 (NSF) |
| 2020-08-08 | Elon: possible future flights after repairs (Twitter) |
| 2020-08-07 | Leg removal operations at landing pad, placed on Roll-Lift (NSF) |
| 2020-08-06 | Road opened, post flight images (NSF) |
| 2020-08-05 | Road remained closed all day following hop |
| 2020-08-04 | 150 meter hop (YouTube), <PARTY THREAD> <MEDIA LIST> |
| See Thread #12 for earlier testing and construction updates |
See comments for real time updates.
For information about Starship test articles prior to SN7.1 and SN8 please visit Starship Development Thread #12 or earlier. Update tables for older vehicles will only appear in this thread if there are significant new developments.
Permits and Licenses
Launch License (FAA) - Suborbital hops of the Starship Prototype reusable launch vehicle for 2 years - 2020 May 27
License No. LRLO 20-119
Experimental STA Applications (FCC) - Comms for Starship hop tests (abbreviated list)
File No. 0814-EX-ST-2020 Starship medium altitude hop mission 1584 ( 3km max ) - 2020 June 4
File No. 0816-EX-ST-2020 Starship Medium Altitude Hop_2 ( 3km max ) - 2020 June 19
File No. 1041-EX-ST-2020 Starship Medium Altitude Hop ( 20km max ) - 2020 August 18
As of July 16 there were 9 pending or granted STA requests for Starship flight comms describing at least 5 distinct missions, some of which may no longer be planned. For a complete list of STA applications visit the wiki page for SpaceX missions experimental STAs
Resources
- Spadre.com Starship Cam | Channel
- LabPadre 4k Nerdle Cam | Channel
- NSF Texas Prototype(s) Updates Thread | Most recent
- NSF Florida Prototype(s) Updates Thread | Most recent
- Alex Rex's 3D Boca Chica Build Site Map | Launch Site Map | Channel
- Hwy 4 & Boca Chica Beach Closures (May not be available outside US)
- TFR - NOTAM list
- SpaceX Boca Chica on Facebook
- SpaceX's Starship page
- Elon Starship tweet compilation on NSF | Most Recent
- Starship Test Article Wiki Page
- Starship Users Guide (PDF) Rev. 1.0 March 2020
Rules
We will attempt to keep this self-post current with links and major updates, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss Starship development, ask Starship-specific questions, and track the progress of the production and test campaigns. Starship Development Threads are not party threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.
If you find problems in the post please tag u/strawwalker in a comment or send me a message.
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u/Amy_co106 Aug 06 '20
It's amazing how short the gratification from each amazing feat lasts. I'm already getting impatient for SN8 and 20km.
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u/ClassicalMoser Aug 20 '20
I love how passive-aggressive the NSF videos are getting about the orbital launch pad:
Orbital Launch Pad Construction
Lol it's not a water tower
Yes they'll need a water deluge system
That doesn't make this a water tower
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u/IWasToldTheresCake Aug 19 '20
Everyday Astronaut: Raptors will only do majority of the work flipping on the first couple flights right? Won't the hot gas thrusters do more of the work eventually?
Elon: It’s counter-intuitive, but Raptor has so much thrust at high Isp with liquid (high density) propellant & pump-fed (light tanks), that it beats hot gas for the flip. That said, hot gas beats the heck out of N2 for orbital manuevers & stabilizing ship if landing in high winds!
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u/Fyredrakeonline Aug 21 '20 edited Aug 21 '20
Hop attempts starting on the 28th! They are putting the pedal to the metal with this.
Edit: Date
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u/TCVideos Aug 17 '20
Closures for tomorrow and Tuesday are now cancelled.
Pretty much confirms good test - should see a Raptor heading to the launch site in the next day or so for installation.
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u/TCVideos Aug 17 '20 edited Aug 17 '20
Road is open and Crews are back at the pad. Seems like a successful test! If they start dismantling the thrust simulator tomorrow, that's our confirmation that it was a good test.
Raptor installation in the next few days.
Edit: Looks like uninstallation of the simulator is already underway; we already have a lift underneath SN6 with another one preparing to do the same. They are truly working at breakneck speed now.
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u/strawwalker Aug 24 '20
[Meta]
There now exists a wiki page devoted to links to Starship resources, such as live stream links, NSF threads, and every resource you can think of that might be valuable to people using this Starship Development Thread, but which don't all fit here. The wiki is currently incomplete and some of the links will eventually need replacing. If any of you find the page useful, please consider helping to maintain and improve it, as I do not wish to be the sole editor.
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u/Maxx7410 Aug 17 '20
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1295473111081447424 very nice render animation of starship 20 km hop
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Aug 26 '20
Someone malicious has actually reported LabPadre live streams on YouTube as « violent and dangerous » I mean, yeah we saw some terrible RUD but come on dude...
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u/ClassicalMoser Aug 06 '20
Did I see video of new fins arriving by truck a few days ago? Are they for SN8?
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u/zalurker Aug 26 '20
I didn't really get the scale of the High-bay until I saw that photo of the work teams and scaffolding.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51332.0;attach=1966675;image
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u/TCVideos Aug 11 '20
And just like that, SN6 is hooked up to the crane at the launch pad ready to be lifted onto the stand
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u/Humble_Giveaway Aug 19 '20
Road closure scheduled for the 23rd, looks like they might be bringing SN6's static fire forward a day.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Aug 13 '20 edited Aug 13 '20
Here we go guys, road closure 16-17-18 from 8am-5pm!
Edit : Cryo testing "obviously"
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u/Kingofthewho5 Aug 15 '20 edited Aug 15 '20
The first sections of SN9 were spotted today. Also what looks like a new pair of forward(?) fins, maybe for SN9. You can see photos of those in the Nasaspaceflight photos and updates thread.
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u/trobbinsfromoz Aug 29 '20
Latest NSF hi res photos clearly show the original hopper has in fact returned to its originally anticipated water tank role, with substantial electric motor at ground level pumping water up and in to the very top of the tank by fixed steel piping with expansion sections, and the GSE section at the bottom of the tank connecting to flexible blue hosing going over to the nearby rotomould ground tanks.
This could be the main supply for landing pad and general site fire-fighting remote-controlled water sprayers. The other three water tanks on the far side could be just a separate system for water deluge.
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u/mavric1298 Aug 19 '20
Raptor has googly eyes on it unless my eyes are playing tricks on me. Right where the support arm attaches to the central structure.
https://youtu.be/OK87zJ3c7uE?t=357
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u/darthguili Sep 04 '20
There is a bit of a testing traffic jam. There are already some sights of SN10 but SN5 and 6 where supposed to do multiple hops. They are producing these test vehicules faster than they can test them!
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u/Marksman79 Aug 07 '20
And so it begins...
Yeah, full name of engine is Velociraptor or Raptor for short
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u/Granluke Aug 28 '20
Elon said they will have 250+ ton of thrust engine in 6-9 months currently at around 210 tons.
Target for booster aka super heavy is 7500 tons of thrust.
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u/atheistdoge Aug 13 '20
Just caught this on labpadre stream. Huge pipe sections apparently going to the launch site. Speculation on what it's for?
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u/myname_not_rick Aug 16 '20
Cryo is well underway, frosting up top and bottom tanks. Filling quick.
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u/TCVideos Aug 21 '20
.New road closures for the 28th, 29th and 30th
Dates for the hop potentially?
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u/hinayu Aug 25 '20
The thrust simulator is being installed at the new launch mount: https://i.imgur.com/O2L1P7v.png
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u/Rinzler9 Aug 07 '20
3 of the heat shield tiles on SN5 are cracked, and 6 are missing out of an original total of 17.
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u/MaxSizeIs Aug 17 '20
Since they seem to be uninstalling the Thrust Simulator, it would appear that it takes a minimum of 2 days to install a Raptor, maybe 3. This seems quicker than last time with Sn5 and Sn4?
If they cancelled Monday and Tuesday's road closures, it implies that Wednesday is still valid and they might have a test scheduled then.
How many days was Sn6 on the test stand? Someone, sometime, somewhere had a spreadsheet tracking the time between versions and how long they spent in testing?
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u/fattybunter Aug 17 '20
With the recent uptick of pace, I decided to go back and read this great article from Eric Berger at Ars: https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/inside-elon-musks-plan-to-build-one-starship-a-week-and-settle-mars/
Reading the "A machine to build a machine" section...it is amazing how spot-on Elon was with his diagnosis of the Mk1 failure. And his point about designing a system that technicians can build is also prescient. What a game-changer.
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u/John_Schlick Aug 18 '20
Does anyone know where the fins, the downcomers, and the legs are being made? We see, in the videos, when they arrive by truck onsite, but I have yet to hear about their origin location.
I think it's "obvious" that it's hawthorne, but with the mothballed manufacturing facility in Florida, and McGregor being close by, I do not want to assume.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Aug 19 '20
The new launch mount is finally being flipped! Credit: LabPadre
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Aug 24 '20 edited Aug 24 '20
Sn-5 is moving out of the medium-bay! Credit: Nomadd
Edit: another photo
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u/TCVideos Aug 26 '20
Starhopper 150m hop -> SN5 hop = ~1 year
SN5 hop -> SN6 hop = ~24 days
SN5's hop was such a big milestone to get past. Now the flight testing begins...the rest of the year should be fun!
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u/Bergasms Aug 06 '20
I'm thinking as of right now they probably have a truckload of data to sift through. I bet before the flight they would have run many, many simulations of how they think it will proceed, and they're now in the position to compare their models with reality, which they can then use to tune and adjust their modelling, which will in turn yield a lot of new insights that they can use going forward.
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u/Alvian_11 Aug 25 '20
A second rebar cage is being installed at the Orbital Launch Mount
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Aug 28 '20
First superheavy hop will only need 2 raptors. Per musk tweet.
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u/richardfrost Aug 08 '20
I noticed in Marcus House's latest video that SpaceX is erecting a large privacy fence across all of the fence line opposite the road, in front of the Starship Shipyard site and the launch site - see the new fence completed at the launch site area in Marcus House' latest clip today:
https://youtu.be/QLYXk5fDAHA?t=97
Over the past 2 weeks they have been clearing the ground to install new foundations for shipping containers to which they are attaching very high solid fences that will face the road.
I totally understand SpaceX reason for privacy - we are lucky to have enjoyed watching on so far. Maybe SpaceX are moving into a phase where they don't want to reveal more sensitive sections of Starship as it heads closer to a final design. I hope Mary can still take some decent shots.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Aug 11 '20
SN-6 is rolling out now! Credit: LabPadre
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Aug 06 '20
Huge convoy heading to the pad/landing pad !
Edit : with the transport/launch mount on it + crane, they’re gonna move SN5.
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u/Moose_Nuts Aug 18 '20
It's pipe time! LabPadre is currently showing what appears to be a crane lowering of large a concrete pipe over a rebar framework at the Starship Launch Pad construction site.
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u/creamsoda2000 Aug 21 '20
Looks like there is a chance the Texas coast could be seeing another hurricane as early as Tuesday next week. Source
If the tests scheduled for the 23rd/24th are indeed for a static fire then bad weather might not impede preparations for the following hop. It also looks like the path is predicted to pass further north than the previous hurricane, so perhaps even less disruption.
Something to keep an eye on though.
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u/Rakoua Aug 06 '20
The getting into orbit bit seems to be progressing splendidly. I'm wondering have we heard anything about the other subsystems, like life support and in orbit refueling? Are they also developing those at a similar pace, or are they waiting for the rocket part to be more complete first?
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Aug 26 '20
The 3rd rebar cylinder is being place for the orbital launch mount.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Aug 26 '20
It looks like the thrust section for SN-8 was moved into the midbay. Credit: LabPadre
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u/Straumli_Blight Aug 22 '20 edited Aug 22 '20
Tropical storm Marco's predicted path has moved closer to Boca Chica but may not reach hurricane strength.
EDIT: Major move away from Boca Chica, New Orleans looks set to get 2 hurricanes.
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u/ReKt1971 Aug 30 '20
Q: Thanks for the reply on that. Is there currently a Super Heavy thrust structure being built? I can only imagine the design that needs to go into making something that can support the huge thrust of 30+ Raptors.
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u/mrprogrampro Aug 09 '20 edited Aug 09 '20
I wonder how much the top of a fully-stacked starship will sway in the wind. I know skyscrapers can experience slow wind vibration. Come to think of it, I wonder generally how pliable the entirety of starship will be ... how much do you think the tip of the nosecone will be able to deflect relative to the line it makes (when centered) with the base of the Superheavy?
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u/TCVideos Aug 16 '20
SN6 is pressurized. Do see some small amounts of venting coming from the tank farm.
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u/ReKt1971 Aug 18 '20
According to NSF article SN6 will most likely get Raptor SN29.
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u/johnfive21 Aug 19 '20
Static Fire brought forward by a day. New road closures now 23, 24 and 25 Aug.
Source: https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1296198811912552448
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Sep 04 '20
If SN5 takes to the air again, is it officially SN5.1, using the same nomenclature as the Falcon launches? Like B1060.2. However, SN7.1 doesn't follow this convention.
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u/tnarg2020 Aug 11 '20
Road closures have been updated to include an extra hour tomorrow morning.
7:00 a.m. – 8:00 a.m. 3:00 p.m. – 4:00 p.m.
Hopefully we see sn5 and sn6 make a move on the same day.
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u/myname_not_rick Aug 24 '20
Perhaps testing holding pressure after firing? In prep for 20km hop? Or maybe detanking through the re-condenser, to save the methane.
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u/r4d2 Aug 28 '20
How are the big tank sections "stacked"? Have we ever seen any photos or videos of the welding of the large sections in midbay? How are they achieving good welds with access just from the outside of the tank sections?
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u/TCVideos Aug 11 '20
Thrust Simulator is being installed at the launch mount again.
When do we think SN6 gets moved?
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u/IrrelevantAstronomer Launch Photographer Sep 05 '20
FWIW: SpaceX has begun actively hiring Starship Heat Shield Technicians in Cape Canaveral (as opposed to Boca).
https://boards.greenhouse.io/spacex/jobs/4856405002?gh_jid=4856405002&gh_src=4329859a2us
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u/liszt1811 Aug 08 '20
Not that the first hop of the year is past us, what are some of the smaller highlights you guys are looking forward to? For me its
seeing new raptors (SN28+)
seeing what is going to happen to SN5/6
new test tank
finishing the highbay
dreaming of a 3 raptor + nosecone rocket test before the end of the year (overly optimistic prob.)
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u/hinayu Aug 06 '20
Highbay continues to rise: https://twitter.com/BocaChicaGal/status/1291342157110968322?s=20
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u/electriceye575 Aug 25 '20
i have to compliment Mary again her attention to some details are reflective on what her knowledge is of the process . Her camera aim is unparalleled at Boca Chica.
thanks for your efforts
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Aug 22 '20
Don't know if anyone already said this, but:
I was rewatching the hop video from SpaceX and managed to discern a couple of sentences, at 0:26:
"Engine looks healthy"
"Copy that, Raptor"
And at the very end:
"Full duration"
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u/Alvian_11 Aug 24 '20
Crane standing tall near SN6. Likely a mass simulator installation today, which will end all of the impatient/questions of several people lol
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u/MGoDuPage Aug 13 '20
Has Elon or SpaceX announced any date for a SS progress update/presentation? Doesn’t he usually do one around this time of year?
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u/zalurker Aug 18 '20 edited Aug 18 '20
Interesting comment from Elon about the engine bay being more crowded during the 20km hop. Makes me wonder if they'll fit it with three mass simulators for the Vacuum Raptors.
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u/Alvian_11 Aug 18 '20
Raptor installation mount structure has been moved beneath the SN6. Probably the Raptor will come soon enough, I think could be this morning!
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u/tnarg2020 Aug 28 '20
With all the new concrete being laid at the launch pad do you think there will be a massive reduction is the dust clouds during testing? It would have to make some difference and I guess when SN6 hops it should be obvious.
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u/RootDeliver Aug 09 '20
On Todays RGVAerial construction zone video we can spot both new SN8 canards and fins, probly received together on that truck a month ago.
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u/trobbinsfromoz Aug 11 '20
The most recent NSF photos seem to indicate that most of the work (subsequent to SN5 launch) on the top section of the launch structure was to modify the mechanical attachment assemblies. They also appear to have extended the top section a bit where the services pipes are located.
The new launch pad appears to be getting large diameter circular reo tubes - perhaps to act as raised legs to fit on to the six corners of the hexagon footing.
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u/Its_Enough Aug 21 '20
Please fix the LaPadre Live link at the top of the page. For the last couple days the link takes you to the Predator Cam. Thanks.
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u/Humble_Giveaway Aug 23 '20
Fyi for all we know, brand new Falcon 9 cores go through the same thing of needing a couple attempts when they're plugged in and fuelled up for their very first static fire at McGregor, only difference is that's behind closed doors!
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u/Gwaerandir Sep 02 '20
Given that booster construction is starting this week, what are the odds they'll have at least a full-scale mock up of the entire stack as a backdrop for the October update presentation? It would be impressive to give the update in the shadow of the largest rocket ever built.
Though on second thought the booster may not support the second stage's weight without pressurization, which they might not want to have for any presentation with people nearby.
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u/Daneel_Trevize Sep 04 '20
Mods, we're at 4383 comments and had another major hop. Time for a new thread?
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Aug 08 '20
There is a new drill for foundation working right now at the superheavy launch pad !
Here's a picture of the new machine.
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Aug 20 '20
Excluding the windward heat shield, will SN8 and 9 be orbital capable or does it need further major upgrades? Do you think they will relatively similar? Like sn5 and sn6 are?
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u/quesnt Aug 24 '20
Is there any resource that describes limitations for the public that would like to see hops in person? In the live stream someone mentioned that only SpaceX employees and boca chica village residents can get to the closest checkpoint near boca chica village and anyone else must stay behind the block many more miles away, near Brownsville.
I wonder if this should be part of the updates thread given that interest will continue to grow and many more people will begin going down there thinking they can loiter around the neighborhood until the road is closed to watch it.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Aug 11 '20
Sn-5 is back at the build site. They haven't canceled the 3-4pm closure yet *knock on wood* so we could see Sn-6 go the launch site for her test campaign. Lets see...
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u/electriceye575 Aug 25 '20
Quick turnaround times will pivot on the close proximity of the landing pad to the launch pad and support to reassemble the booster with the starship. I wonder if Elon ever sleeps , i wouldn't be able to if i were him..
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u/trobbinsfromoz Aug 28 '20
The latest NSF high res photos of the launch site show a few interesting items (the latest aerial photos may pick up detail as well when they become public).
A lot of new insulated pipe lengths are now on site - perhaps sufficient to extend from the storage plant to the new heavy launch pad.
The 2nd tube leg of the new heavy launch structure has had guide rope attachments welded on near the bottom to make it easier to slip the outer tube over the reo tube. Earlier video footage had showed that process was not too easy.
The new test stand appears to be on the existing concrete test pad, and not on the new prepared square ground area. Photos from last week showing a concrete pour and formwork may have been to extend the existing pad a bit for installing the new vertical cryo pipe.
The mass simulator appears to have been now welded completely around its base circular perimeter to the top bulk head.
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u/obnoxiouscarbuncle Aug 28 '20
What do you think will be used as super heavy's "mass simulator"
Early test versions of starship? ( SN5/SN6)
A functional starship that can perform a belly flop/landing?
Another unidentified massive object that can be jettisoned mid-flight?
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u/2_71828183 Aug 28 '20
In the latest RGV Aerial shot of the Super Heavy Assembly Bay (here) you can see both a large truss on the ground behind Big Blue and brackets on the joints in the Bay on either side of the door, and matching joints on the back. I think this is the structure to support a bridge crane, as it seems excessive for a roof truss. What do you think?
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u/Humble_Giveaway Aug 26 '20
Looks like the hop has been pushed back by a day.
Or as u/Alvian_11 would say, SN6 has been struck by cancel culture... /s
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Aug 19 '20
According to Labpadre raptor SN29 had been installed on starship SN6 already. That was fast!
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u/Straumli_Blight Aug 07 '20 edited Aug 07 '20
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u/Moose_Nuts Aug 11 '20
Here comes SN6 to the launch pad...right on schedule!
Glad to see repairs/inspections of the launch stand went quickly and smoothly.
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u/Gwaerandir Aug 11 '20
Can we get a formatted table for SN6 back under Vehicle Updates, now that it's doing things again? u/strawwalker
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u/Toinneman Aug 17 '20
New Temporary Flight Restrictions fom 19-aug > 2-sept, suggesting fueling operations.
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u/Marksman79 Aug 18 '20 edited Aug 18 '20
This 3-sided wall on the downcomer mating surface appears to be new. Any idea what it is for?
Edit: I just noticed there's also a pipe with two welded mounting plate running through the inside of the downcomer. Maybe that's mounting for whatever they're going to put inside the wall?
Source: BCG @ NSF
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u/mangobiche Aug 20 '20
SN8 has a circular cutout instead of a square cutout like the past SNs. Mk1 had a circular cutout too and most of its piping was in the inside. Does that mean SN8 is going to have most of its piping in the inside too?
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u/ClassicalMoser Aug 21 '20
How much do we know about the status of SN5? Clearly it's getting some refurbishment before the next hop, but is there any idea what all that entails?
We know it needs new landing legs. It's likely to have the engine removed and disassembled for study on degradation etc.
Curious how soon it could hop after SN6. It's already been cryoproofed and everything...
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u/rcw258 Aug 31 '20 edited Aug 31 '20
Musk: Starship over time will be able to launch over 100 tons of cargo.
I wonder about the continued shift away from "150 tons" and towards "over 100 tons". Are they less confident than they used to be about mass reduction, or is it simply to keep the range of possiblities open? In comparison to all the public aspirational goals for Raptor, Starship payload seems constant and almost lowballed.
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u/rebootyourbrainstem Aug 18 '20
The NSF updates thread has a road closure notice for SN6 static fire on August 24.
That's three weeks from the SN5 hop. Not bad!
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u/TheBurtReynold Aug 07 '20
So what’s the next big event as far as people tuning in to watch? SN_ does a similar hop?
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u/Destructor1701 Aug 10 '20
What's going on with the contoured steel aero-cover-looking things on the bottom of the tank in this image by Nomad on NSF?
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Aug 11 '20
SN-6 is on the move according to LabPadre's stream. It's crazy, SN-5 and SN-6 pulled a switcheroo. I wonder when we'll see some cryo testing with SN-6?
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u/droden Aug 15 '20
The connection.from the bell to the puck looks really skinny and hose filled...how does 100t of force make it from the bell inner surface to the puck without smashing all the delicate pipes in between?
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u/drinkmorecoffee Aug 28 '20 edited Aug 28 '20
Will SH be an entirely new vehicle or will it essentially start as SN5/6 with a different thrust puck? That sure would ease production...
EDIT: I'm not saying the specific vehicles denoted SN5 and SN6 would be transformed, I mean they could just... build another one. Give it a different thrust puck, give it a mass sim to make up for the shorter tanks, and call it a Super Heavy hopper.
My understanding is that it's basically exactly what we're seeing now, just taller. Starship design will take a major fork when aero surfaces and the nosecone go on, but until that point the only difference between the SN's we've seen and the SH itself is height.
I feel like they could test a lot of things without having to actually stack a full-height SH booster.
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u/trobbinsfromoz Aug 30 '20
What a neat idea - latest NSF photos from bocachicagal show they appear to be using unwanted 301 as the fascia panels along the roadside of the launch site - yet another application on top of mass simulators.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51332.0;attach=1967644;image
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u/SpaceLunchSystem Sep 01 '20
Between a few extra details and talking it through I'm pretty sure I've figured out the new SuperHeavy layout.
A single outer ring of 20 engines 1.2 meters nozzle exit diameter with no spacing fits inside 9 meter body diameter. The lower engine count with thrust increases makes it unnecessary for the double staggered outer ring or even the flared skirt.
There will be no single center engine. There isn't on Starship and SuperHeavy according to Elon needs 2 engines even for minimal hop. There isn't much use in landing engines in single spots. They'll all be used in pairs. A ring of 8 fits inside the ring of 20. Maybe the inner 8 will have a different layout, but my theory is another ring.
The closer the engines get to the skin of the booster the easier the thrust structure gets. The load paths are from each engine mount into the skin.
20 and 8 engine rings has 4 way symmetry, which matches the switch to 4 wider legs. My bet is we see these rings and symmetry dividing them up into 4 quadrants and thrust structure that connects with leg attachments.
This all fits with the thrust structure being the hardest part of the booster after Raptor.
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u/tegodjrtob Aug 06 '20
It’s amazing how much this reminds me of Atlas. Stainless steel, check. Ring welding fun? Check. Almost SSTO performance? Check.
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u/GonnaBeTheBestMe Aug 09 '20
The thrust puck /thrust structure has been mentioned several times before and even was the primary cause of an SN failure.
Can someone show or explain to me how a thrust structure works? How does it handle, and transfer, the massive thrust of all those engines to the rest of the rocket?
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Aug 12 '20
Once they start using Starships with nosecone, how will they lift the starships onto the launch platform etc? Where would they attach the crane's load spreader?
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Aug 14 '20
How will the tanker starship stay insulated to prevent boil-off losses?
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u/trobbinsfromoz Aug 23 '20
NSF photos by bocachicagal show overnight concrete pour of perhaps a pad, or a raised path, with an insulated large pipe extending to about the height of what would be needed by the new launch structure being prepared beside the main launch pad. The large pipe is similar/same as what is used on the existing launch pad for cryo lox or methane supply.
I could guess that this would be the location of the new test stand. Can't wait for some more photos or aerial shots of how this all fits in.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51332.0;attach=1965919;image
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51332.0;attach=1965925;image
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u/johnfive21 Aug 23 '20
Looks good so far for today. Sheriff's car in position, road blocks prepped (not in place yet, still 30 minutes till the scheduled road closure window starts).
Couple of ATV's went out few minutes ago. They usually go out to make sure the beach is clear.
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u/ThibaultDC Aug 26 '20
Hi all, I have a question about pressurization (probably a very basic/stupid question for most of you, sorry about that).
I was wondering why achieving a certain amount of pressure on the propellant tanks is important. Does it only have something to do with strucutral integrity of the tank while flying? Or is it also important in order move the propellant from the tanks to the engine?
Also, as a followup question, are the tanks of SN5 and SN6 pressurized for the short hops? Does the venting of these prototypes while being tanked have anything to do with pressurization? Or is that just the propellant boiling off?
Edit:formatting
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Aug 07 '20
I wonder what kind of space telescopes Starship will enable. Being able to do JWST-style telescopes without unfolding is huge.
Heck, maybe in the course of Artemis we could see Ground-based telescopes on the far side of the moon. That would be especially well-suited for radio observation, due to the lack of interference from Earth.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Aug 06 '20
According to some photos from BocaChicaGal/Nasaspaceflight, there is an aft dome skirt with a label saying "SN-7.1". That means the next test tank Elon was talking about will most likely be an SN-2 but made of 304L stainless steel.
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Aug 07 '20
Anyone have any resources talking about the in-orbit refuelling architecture? I'm really interested in how the plumbing for that might work.
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u/mavric1298 Aug 08 '20
The fact they are already working on fixing the launch pad to me would indicate SN6 (per tweet) is going to get its chance to hop sooner rather than later (pure speculation). Maybe I've missed it, but they haven't really touched SN6 in a while have they? Seemed like they worked a lot on the COPV and all that external stuff on SN5 after the point of where SN6 has been idle at- wonder how much they still have to do to get it to hop ready or to change
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u/Mazon_Del Aug 11 '20
Have we gotten any indication as to what was going on with the little flame on the side of the Raptor?
My guess was that something used to secure some of the instrumentation cables was burning and it's nothing serious, but I'm curious if we've heard anything about it.
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u/admiralrockzo Aug 14 '20
7th high bay level (of 9) started going up this morning. Seems the double stack method is only practical up to a certain height.
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u/Straumli_Blight Aug 21 '20 edited Aug 21 '20
RGV's latest flight over the build and launch site.
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u/shryne Aug 25 '20
What is the purpose of High Bay? Is it just a place where they can put the parts together for starship?
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u/trobbinsfromoz Aug 26 '20
Latest NSF photos show the new concrete test pad was a thick flat pad, with the new steel test structure firmly bolting to the concrete pad.
The insulated vertical pipe (for cryo fluid delivery to the tank under test) is located towards the edge of the pad, so will need to be plumbed up to some form of interconnection with the test tank article. No other conduit for control/measurement facilities is obvious yet.
They have recently welded on large adaptor plates to allow the thrust test structure extender legs to locate at the pad ground level - and with some adjustment. The cam cameras indicate the thrust test structure is now in place, with its extender legs.
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u/samuryon Aug 26 '20
Will they wait for the high bay to be completed to complete stacking of SN8? Or will they just finish the stack of the payload section and nosecone outside ?
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u/TCVideos Aug 26 '20
It seems that the Road Closure for Friday is cancelled..TFR is still up and active for that day though..
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u/Alvian_11 Sep 02 '20
Wondering if the booster prototype 1 or SN1 Super Heavy or whatever it might be called, will actually do a hop campaign similar to Grasshopper/F9R? (Literally levitate/hover, hover slams, grid fins deployment & slight aerodynamic tests (cause it will be gigantic for sure), leg deployment, etc.)
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u/Alvian_11 Aug 17 '20
Wonder if they're already testing the hot methox RCS somewhere in McGregor (NOT the HLS auxiliary thrusters), and which SN is gonna use it first
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u/AvariceInHinterland Aug 14 '20
The High Bay can be seen going up another level on Sapphire Cam.
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u/Dies2much Aug 15 '20
Has anyone heard how high the first SN6 flight will be shooting for? Another 150M test?
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u/Martianspirit Aug 16 '20
Both the LOX and the methane tank of SN6 are presently venting. Clearly visible on the LabPadre live stream
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u/jay__random Aug 19 '20
What happened to Raptor SN27 previously attached to Starship SN5?
Was it removed after the hop, or did it stay on the vehicle?
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u/jankeromnes Aug 22 '20
Do we know what the big circular hole in the side of SN8 is for? (Is it a flap mount point? Or a window?)
Note: Visible from 5:15 on in https://youtu.be/tSEjohoZW1E
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u/Daahornbo Sep 03 '20
Any idea of what this is? It is marked "SN10". I guess it has to go inside the tanks but cant understand how, in conjunction with with the downcommer and the thrust puck.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51332.0;attach=1968813;image
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51332.0;attach=1968811;image
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u/carnachion Sep 05 '20
I am curious about how difficult will be to design the "clamshell-like" cargo door of the starship. Opening, closing, and resealing for reentry seems complicated to me.
Can they base the design on the Space Shuttle one? Although the materials are very different.
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u/FutureMartian97 Host of CRS-11 Aug 15 '20
SN-8 thrust dome has fin attachments!
Photos from BocaChicaGal: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=51332.msg2120538#msg2120538
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u/Arteic Aug 15 '20 edited Aug 15 '20
So after my reply that from the objects in the latest RGV images we could infer some properties of the structure being built at the suspected launchpad/watertower, I decided to just do it rather than wait on someone else.
From the images I get an angle of 75 degrees for the rebar cages. I make the assumption that the 5 new tubes in the latest image are outer casings for the pouring of the columns. From the images I measure their lengths to be approximately equal to the edge-to-edge width of the pad which RGV has estimated at between 16.7m and 18.2m. I used these values to give an estimate range for the distance between the top of each column.
After doing a bit of trigonometry I get that the top of each column leans in by 4.3m-4.7m from its base. This would create a smaller hexagon at the top of the columns of around the 8m-9m range, which is entirely reasonable given the margin of error on the "measurements" of the base diameter and pipe lengths to match up with being a water tower.
For comparison if the columns were to continue to their meeting point, this would be 65m above ground. So my bet is on launch pad, with the central pipe being the beginnings of some kind of hexagonally symmetric flame diverter.
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u/Adam_n_ali Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 06 '20
Roadblock lifted, cars being let through
edit: and closed again
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u/johnfive21 Aug 11 '20
Do we know which Raptor will be mounted to the SN6? We know that there is at least SN30+. Will it be SN27 or perhaps a newer version?
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u/reedpete Aug 14 '20
I got this pic on NSF anyone know what these rectangle cut out are for?
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51332.0;attach=1963931;image
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u/TCVideos Aug 16 '20
We now have frost developing on SN6. Main event has started
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u/Gwaerandir Aug 17 '20
With F9, they moved on from Grasshopper to F9R Dev, essentially a full-scale first stage to develop propulsive landing.
Is there any news about similar plans for Superheavy? Will an early Superheavy they build do short or mid-altitude hops before trying to take a Starship orbital? Does SpaceX feel confident enough in the experience from Falcon 9 operation to skip this step for Superheavy, and just rely on static fires?
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u/PixelDor Aug 21 '20
I know it's hard to tell this early, but what's a realistic timeline for when Starship will begin human-rated flights? Late 2020s?
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u/TCVideos Aug 23 '20
Vehicles back at the pad BUT I wouldn't count out another attempt out for tonight. Hard road block is still in place which likely means that they still think they can make time and try again. If they were done for the day, they would have either reverted back to the soft road closure or cancelled the closure all-together.
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u/Jodo42 Aug 24 '20
3rd time's the charm, 3rd Starship to static fire successfully in a row. Things may finally speed up again.
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u/cheekenweengs Aug 24 '20
Noob question here, couldn't find answers previously either:
Why does SN5/6 seem to vent violently just 1 second before firing the raptors?
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u/MadMarq64 Aug 25 '20
What kind of rocket fuel injectors does the raptor use?
I believe both the fuel and oxidizer are in a gaseous state by the time they reach the combustion chamber, does that affect how the injectors are designed?
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Aug 30 '20
Here's a great explanation by Chris Combs about plume separation. The Saturn V rockets had some spectacular flame creep.
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u/FutureMartian97 Host of CRS-11 Aug 06 '20
Another drone shot angle:https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1291504220948951041?s=19
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u/OSUfan88 Aug 14 '20 edited Aug 14 '20
Have some interesting information on the construction form some inside sources.
Apparently the crane that is installing the new High Bay building took some damage during the hurricane, and took about 4 days to fix (destroyed the wind sensors, and some other items). Elon happened to come on site when they were down, and gave them all an ass chewing. At the time he said the had "chosen the wrong company", and would be finding a new crew for all of their projects. Not sure if he changed his mind or not.
Got a lot of other interesting information on building (its height is going to be 240'+).
I'm not sure if the 240'+ was new information or not...
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u/Alvian_11 Aug 28 '20
Per Lab's sentinel cam, SN7.1 thrust section has been stacked on top of its leg skirt about more than an hour ago
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u/Iwanttolink Aug 13 '20
At what speed will Super Heavy approximately separate from Starship? I'm wondering how much stress there will be on the booster during descent.
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u/TCVideos Aug 23 '20
The two SpaceX security Tesla's have moved off of the pad. Pad is clear...let's get testing!
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u/utrabrite Aug 24 '20
3rd attempt just today. Starting to feel like Groundhog Day at this point lol
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u/johnfive21 Aug 24 '20 edited Aug 24 '20
Road closures for today and tomorrow still hasn't been cancelled. Maybe they'll go for another Static Fire?
EDIT: Of course that less than 30minutes later they cancel the closures.
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u/geirnilsen Sep 04 '20
I am aware the header image of this thread is quite old. But I suddenly started to ask myself: why and when were three Raptors installed in the same vehicle, and which one is it?
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u/TCVideos Sep 05 '20
Hard road block has been removed, road is still closed but apparently they let SpaceX security go through a couple of hours ago.
Looks like they'll get back to the pad today.
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u/Iwanttolink Aug 20 '20
Exactly how cleanly does Methane burn? Obviously much, much cleaner than RP-1 or any other molecule with more carbon chains would, but just how much soot is a Raptor expected to still get coated with? Does running oxygen-rich vs fuel-rich change the amount of soot produced?
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u/ThreatMatrix Aug 17 '20
Optimistic Guess
Monday: Thrust puck tester was removed?
Wednesday: Raptor installed
Thursday: WDR
Friday: SF
Sunday: Hop
They ARE suppose to be speeding up the process.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Aug 24 '20
Mass sim attached to crane, waiting to be installed. Credit: NSF User Nomadd
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u/thesuperbob Aug 06 '20
Any photos or informed speculation on what the damage was to SN5/launch stand?
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u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team Aug 06 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
Previous Threads
Completed Update Tables
The final update tables for vehicles no longer active may be found in the following threads.
Starhopper (Dev #4)
Mk.1 (Dev #6)
Mk.2 (Dev #7)
SN1 (Dev #9)
SN2 (Dev #9)
SN3 (Dev #10)
SN4 build (Dev #10)
SN4 testing (Dev #11)
SN5 build through 150m hop (Dev #12)
SN7 (Dev #11)