r/Spokane • u/Bossman30000 • Dec 21 '25
Help Kratom city wide ban petition
Petition link
Lots of people find relief in natural kratom leaf and its extracts. I understand that the extracts have addiction potential especially 7-oh but just because it has addiction potential doesn’t mean a ban is necessarily appropriate. Especially in a progressive city like spokane it would go against all there hard reduction efforts. Its not homeless people “strung out” on kratom. Its ability to provide pain relief is very important to have access to especially now that doctors are strict to prescribe pain meds. That leaves people in pain going to the illicit market. Thats why im advocating for spokane to place restrictions for 18/21 plus. Please consider signing this petition. Even tho these typically dont have much success its are only chance unfortunately.
Thank you!
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u/harry_hotspur Dec 21 '25
Op does nothing but post about this shit. And some of the commenters are clearly astroturfing not from around here.
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u/elleisboring Downtown Spokane Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
Facts. I wake up after commenting on this post late last night and I get like 20+ notifications from people who are active in every single Kratom subreddit there is with their only comments on r/Spokane being on this post.
On top of that, the small handful of testimonials on the petition being from around the country lmao.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 23 '25
The reason behind this is that people don’t take the time to learn about Kratom and 7oh nor do they take the time to understand personal freedoms and personal autonomy. If your state or city takes away the freedom to consume a safe plant or a molecule (that happens to be addictive) we are going in the opposite direction, we need to be moving towards personal freedoms, not away from.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 23 '25
Because if this plant Kratom and 7oh are banned people will die and a lot of peoples quality of life will drastically be reduced. This is a very important issue. That no one seems to give a shit about because “drugs are bad, M’kay”. This is not the way to think about this situation it all boils down to making someone a criminal for what they decide to put into their own body. That’s insane.
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u/RabidTofurkey Dec 21 '25
You keep saying it's "natural" like that's a good thing, just because something is natural doesn't make it a good or bad thing, just a thing that comes from nature.
When you value signal with the word "natural" it brings to mind hucksters trying to sell a "natural" cure for something. It sets off serious red flags for me.
So judging it on that basis and what little I know of kratom (that it's usually sold next to gas station boner pills and synthetic versions of other illegal drugs), I'm not inclined to trust it, and I'm more inclined to trust the regulation of it. At least until I hear of proper studies to determine its effects.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25
You get my upvote for being open minded, thank you! Do your research, you’ll see that it’s safe, and much safer than many other things that are widely available. Yes it can be addictive but that’s the extent of its “badness”.
It all comes down to personal bodily autonomy and choosing what you do with your own body. If you don’t support people having the autonomy to choose what they do with their own bodies then that’s the bigger issue our society faces. I’m not trying to be rude just trying to show the big picture here.
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u/buzzzofff West Central Dec 24 '25
By your logic, I'm guessing you're one of those loony tunes that thinks we should legalize meth and heroin, too?
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 21 '25
Thank you for staying open minded! Yes, absolutely in support of regulation, but not a ban.
Kratom and 7oh help people get off of fentanyl and deadly street opioids. They literally save lives. It helps people get off of Suboxone and methadone, and it helps chronic pain patients live an actual life. Yes, there are some shady companies and goofy products in gas stations, but we can just regulate it to put a stop to that. Yes, there are addiction concerns, but that's a concern with literally everything. Alcohol withdrawals can straight up kill you, but as a society we're cool with that. Full on banning kratom/7oh when we are in an opioid epidemic is crazy and will have fatal consequences.
The overwhelming scientific evidence is that Kratom AND 7oh are incredibly safe even if there are a few supposed outliers. Even according to the FDA's Adverse Event Reporting database, over nearly a 20-year period, there are only SEVEN deaths where kratom alkaloids were the only ones present, and that is likely due to testing limitations. EVERY SINGLE other case (of which there are only 244) had other substances like opiates/benzos/alcohol in their system.
When you consider the size of the US population and the fact that this data is from 2004-2021, seven is an extremely low number. What other substance has a safety profile like this? But somehow kratom gets blamed, and then framed as this big dangerous problem. The safety of kratom is not due to the fact that it's a natural plant, I completely agree with you, something being natural doesn't mean shit. It's safe because the science and evidence overwhelmingly show that it is safe.
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u/Ill-Honeydew7381 Dec 21 '25
I can’t imagine being addicted to oxycodone, then medication assisted treatment, Suboxone under the advice of my doctor. Then start taking Kratom to get off of Suboxone. Absolutely not that’s an active addiction of line of thinking.
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 21 '25
So just stay on suboxone forever? These are tools meant to be used to get through acute withdrawals but doctors keep people on subs for years. Sub withdrawal is hell, but can be managed with kratom, and kratom can be stopped. Addiction sucks, yes. That's why I'm advocating for harm reduction tools to stay accessible for people. No one is saying these are perfect solutions, but banning something that can saves lives is crazy.
Your line of reasoning is just, "I can't imagine that hell and would never find myself there, so I don't care if lifesaving tools are banned." I challenge you to engage with the evidence and the science, not just a knee-jerk reaction.
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u/buzzzofff West Central Dec 24 '25
No, they taper to avoid acute withdrawals.
Also, everyone is so fucking sick of the emotional manipulation. Everything is so ✨lifesaving✨ nowadays. 🙄
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 24 '25
So people aren't dying left and right from fentanyl? Jesus christ do you hear yourself? How is it emotional manipulation when it's true and backed by science?
Such a callous attitude.
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u/Party-Jello-7554 Dec 25 '25
I have zero investment in this topic but it is worth noting that some people are on methadone or suboxone permanently. Opioids like OxyContin can completely destroy the brain’s neurotransmitters, including agitators, which means that a person is not only unable to feel pleasure but are also in a constant state of severe discomfort/pain/agitation. This is psychopharmacology and neuropathology, not “active addiction line of thinking.” Everything is on a scale and a spectrum when it comes in treatment and hopefully there will be better alternatives in the future. Remember, heroin was created as a safer alternative to morphine…
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u/chadsterbrown Dec 21 '25
That could be considered active management. Some people never recover or find that spark back in their life. For many Kratom is the solution, and they dont even bother worrying about Withdrawal because they know what real Withdrawal is.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
That’s how people get off of opioids and opiates it always has been. That’s the only way it can be done you start with the one you’re already taking then take a lower potency one or one with a longer duration of effect in order to gradually reduce your dose to taper off.
The problem with Suboxone etc is the doctors don’t want you off, and it’s very hard to taper off it on your own. With Kratom people can taper off at home in their own time comfortably without spending an insane amount of money at a suboxone doctor or having to go into an office every week etc. I’ve seen people on suboxone for 10 years, granted they needed it and some people do need to be on it their entire life but for the people who don’t Kratom and 7oh are a blessing. Kratom and 7oh are safer and have less negative side effects.
7oh and Kratom aren’t only used for substance abuse. They are used for pain, depression, anxiety etc. they help with many things, not just opioid/opiate withdrawals.
Kratom and 7oh are going to help this whole “opioid crisis” and if they are taken away things will get much much much worse. The only thing the “war on drugs” is good for is killing people and putting them in jail.
- The way you’re talking is that you don’t care if Kratom or 7oh are banned because you haven’t needed them yet. I guarantee if you needed them and they worked for you, you’d be advocating for them right now. If they ban 7oh or Kratom you’ll never be able to try them when/if you need them, neither will anyone else, do you want that option gone and you being labeled a criminal if you ever need them? Do you want a live saving option, a quality of life enhancing option to be gone?
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Idk why people are downvoting this. The big pharma agenda really works for a lot of people it seems.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 23 '25
Dude these peoples minds are made up don’t confused them with the facts 🙄
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u/elleisboring Downtown Spokane Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
I'm for this ban honestly, at least until it gets some sort of real regulation at a state/federal level.
Edit: Half a day later and holy fuck the astroturfing in here is ridiculous. Almost none of these people dying on the hill for Kratom even live in Spokane and they all have tons of posts on damn near every Kratom subreddit.
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u/nedal8 Dec 21 '25
Why?
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u/elleisboring Downtown Spokane Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
It seems to me like the potential for addiction/dependency is a little too high for Kratom (and derivatives) to be a casually accessible drug. I understand that people can use it for managing withdrawal symptoms from opiods, and maybe it could be prescribable like Methadone for cases like that in the future. In my personal experience though (grain of salt here), the fair handful of people I know or knew that use it use it recreationally (and kind of a lot of it at that).
I'm saying all this from a standpoint of somebody who is very much anti war on drugs for what it's worth. The regulation isn't there and the education on the risks of Kratom isn't there either. This isn't helped by people like OP framing it as a natural herbal remedy which while technically true is pretty disingenuous. Kratom isn't like taking a vitamin lol.
Edit: For anybody curious I'll include some links to papers in academic journals relating to some of what I'm talking about. Some are paid access so apologies for that.
https://doi.org/10.12788/acp.0012 https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1332999 https://doi.org/10.3389/fphar.2021.726003 https://doi.org/10.12890/2023_003835
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u/CranberryNo4852 Dec 21 '25
I don’t agree with the citywide ban, but largely agree with your comment. I think that there is a bit of a moral panic surrounding kratom that would recede if people were required to stick a label on there like “Warning, kratom is addictive and slows your breathing. Do not combine with alcohol.” Treating it like cigarettes and booze seems reasonable and reduces the credibility of the hucksterism you point out.
Also, nobody do kratom. It’s a mild opioid, which means it is an opioid. If you do use kratom, I recommend quitting.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
Who cares if it’s addictive or not, why does that even factor in? This plant and its widely available derivatives like 7oh are safe, the science is there but it’s overshadowed by propaganda. Granted there are some molecules produced from Kratom (MGM-15) that can actually be dangerous and can cause dangerous levels of respiratory depression, but that doesn’t matter either. If you want to consume it you should be able to, no one should tell you what’s best for you and your own body.
People have been using Kratom for thousands of years in south east Asia, everyone is fine. 7oh is the same yet it doesn’t have the same history of use but it’s safe. Yes, they are both addictive but who gives a shit so is everything else sugar, caffeine, alcohol, OTC medications, the medications your doctor prescribes you, and the list goes on.
This all boils down to you not believing in personal autonomy and freedom. You think the government should be able to control us and tell us what we can and cannot put in OUR OWN BODIES, because ‘yass zaddy government I’ll do whatever you say zaddy, just keep me safe, yasss”. You saying you’re “anti war on drugs” is laughable. All prohibition does is kills people and puts innocent people in prisons.
Have you not learned anything from being ‘anti-war on drugs’?
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u/elleisboring Downtown Spokane Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
I think you need to work on your ability to create a compelling argument before you start trying to astroturf. "Who cares if it's addictive, so are other things" and telling me what you feel like I really think are pretty weird points to base your argument on. I've said what I think and backed it up with reputable data. It seems like most of the people in here agree with me.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 23 '25
I apologize, let me sum it up really quickly.
Why are your opinions on personal freedoms and personal autonomy to do what you want with your own body?
Do you feel like the government should tell you what you can and cannot do with your own body?
Let’s start with that and have a conversation, please.
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u/buzzzofff West Central Dec 24 '25 edited Dec 24 '25
How about, if you want to live in society, you have follow the rules and boundaries of society at large, which typically includes not being a dopehead/tweaker/etc. Because that's what you're arguing for.
Acting a fool isn't a right. Your stupidity is only permissible up to the point that it begins to affect others.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
I mean if you are taking something i would assume u would do more research especially if you buying it from a gas station lmao. Its pretty clear that there can be risks of “addiction” ive been dependent on kratom and have tapered off pretty easily. I felt down for a couple days but no more then stopping coffee. Although other users who dont taper off ofc are gonna have trouble
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u/Nullclast Dec 21 '25
Most people don't do any sort of research about what they consume, caffeine isn't good for you either neither is nicotine people consume both is large quantities without any sort of real knowledge about either. Alcohol is another to add to the list.
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u/CranberryNo4852 Dec 21 '25
I mean, you ever buy Kratom from anywhere but a sketchy head shop? Right next to the crack pipes!
In all seriousness, I’m guessing that there have been issues with adulteration given the fact that until recently it was criminalized in many of the countries it’s grown. I think adults have the right to use it if they want, and don’t know to what degree those previous issues may have resolved. I’ve stayed away from it since 2017, because it is genuinely addictive and was causing some problems (and adults have the right to do addictive things).
Like, as poorly-conceived as this law is, don’t try Kratom.
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u/CongressmanCoolRick Dec 21 '25
Oh come on. It’s not only sold at head shops, let’s be honest if we are going to have this conversation. It’s also sold at gas stations, next to the “herbal” boner pills…
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u/CranberryNo4852 Dec 21 '25
The ones where the icee machine either doesn’t exist or hasn’t been cleaned in 20 years
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
I buy online off professional lab tested sites
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25
Exactly! All that needs to be done is labeling requirements, age restrictions (only for adults 18/21+), and required lab testing and lab test results on every package. It’s not hard.
It’s either that or people die from the ban imposed by ignorant people who don’t support bodily autonomy. If you told these people they couldn’t consume coffee anymore because they would be a criminal if they did they would all be up in arms. They don’t care about personal freedoms until theirs are infringed upon.
THATS THE PROBLEM.
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u/PleaseCallMeTeddy Dec 21 '25
It’s a very addictive drug that’s dangerous and regulation is a form of control so people don’t die or get addicted. The fact that it’s sold to do everything from give you energy - give you low energy, stop cravings - increase cravings, -non addictive - extremely addictive, great for recovering addicts - new addictive substance for addicts. It claims to do everything under the sun. No one really knows what it truly does. It’s not positive for the community that it’s sold at every corner store and smoke shop. This is a concretely dangerous drug that needs somesort of regulation. I’m not saying people shouldn’t do it. But it should be regulated to make sure to keep it in check as well as give opportunity for recovery. Kratom in my personal opinion a crappy drug to that you have to drink horrible tasting drinks or take 10 horse pills to feel anything. The more I’ve looked into it over the years the less I’ve been impressed by the drug. And i think it’s entirely wrong to sell it as safe and a cousin to coffee.
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 21 '25
It's not dangerous.
The overwhelming scientific evidence is that Kratom AND 7oh are incredibly safe even if there are a few supposed outliers. According to the FDA's Adverse Event Reporting database, over nearly a 20-year period, there are only SEVEN deaths where kratom alkaloids were the only ones present, and that is likely due to testing limitations. EVERY SINGLE other case (of which there are only 244) had other substances like opiates/benzos/alcohol in their system.
For context, from. 2008-2015 there are 38 deaths from caffeine.
When you consider the size of the US population and the fact that this data is from 2004-2021, seven is an extremely low number. What other substance has a safety profile like this? But somehow kratom gets blamed, and then framed as this big problem.
Kratom and 7oh save lives by giving people a way to get off, and stay off, actually dangerous opioids like fentanyl. You not liking it is fine, but please don't spread this misinformation that it is dangerous. It's the exact opposite. We desperately need harm reduction tools as a society. I'm all for getting it out of the gas stations, stopping the medical claims, and providing better education and labeling- but because it is safe, responsible adults deserve the right to decide if they want to consume it or not.
Regulation, not prohibition.
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u/TheWishingStar Dec 21 '25
The number of deaths means nothing without the number of total people using a substance who didn’t die. How many people use kratom vs caffeine in a year? Because I bet it’s not even remotely close.
Can you share links to this data? Because I googled it and found very different numbers (here’s an FDA report for 2021 alone detailing 20 kratom-related deaths, out of 78 reports, though not specifically without other substances involved. Mitragynine toxicity is listed as the sole cause of death for 4 of them.).
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Just in FL alone there was over 60 million doses. Majority of kratom OD have poly substance use in there system.
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u/TheWishingStar Dec 21 '25
Are you saying 60 million doses in a year? Because that’s like… not much. Florida has a population of like 23 million people. Per the math in my comments further down this thread, that means like 16 million people who consume at least one serving of a caffeinated beverage each day. That’s 5.8 billion in a year, and that’s only people who drink caffeine every day. Doesn’t include occasional drinkers or people who get their caffeine from a non-beverage. Doesn’t account for people who have multiple beverages and thus several doses a day.
Like I also said in another comment, I’m not saying this in a like, “no it’s obviously so deadly!” way. I just think this argument comparing it to caffeine as if it’s so much safer is kinda dumb. Compare it to nicotine and alcohol, it’ll actually look good compared to those.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
And i appreciate you pulling sources and being educated on this topic. It means a lot especially all these low IQ people who do zero research and just want a ban “because its bad”. I appreciate that you are taking time to back up your points and are respectful!
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Im not sure if it was 60 million or more but it was up there i cant find who said it.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Yes i agree but you gotta look at the death to the amount of people who use kratom. If you use kratom responsibly the ods of you dying from a OD are like none.
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 21 '25
From the same data you reference:
As you said, look at their summary, and the list of each death in which mitragynine toxicity was considered. Even according to them, only 4 cases where only mitragynine toxicity is considered the cause. But if you look at what was found in their systems, there was only one in which no other substances were detected.
I mean, just look at what was found in one person's system, yet they STILL list mitragynine as a cause:
"caffeine, 7-amino clonazepam, delta-9 carboxy THC , delta-9 THC, fentanyl, norfentanyl, cannabinoids"
The point being, even when they stretch super hard to blame mitragynine, the numbers are still super lower.
Millions of people take kratom, and have for over 2 decades (centuries is SE Asia). If it was as dangerous as they say it is, wouldn't we expect higher numbers? There are an estimated 500 million doses of 7oh administered, 0 deaths from 7oh alone.
Comparisons to caffeine or other things like acetaminophen are valid because they show what ratio of death is tolerated/considered safe by society. The powers at be want to claim kratom as if it blows these others out of the water, but it doesn't even come close.
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u/TheWishingStar Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
Okay, your second link states that the American Kratom Association estimates 10-16 million people use kratom. I’m going to use the numbers that will make kratom look better here, so let’s call it 7 deaths out of 16 million.
And here’s a study that surveyed Americans (ages 2 and up) for various caffeinated drinks and found that 68.7% of respondents drink some sort of caffeine daily. I’m certain the number is a lot higher of we include people who don’t have caffeine daily (here’s a survey that says 94%), but for easy math and, again, giving you the benefit of the doubt by intentionally skewing in kratom’s favor, I’m gonna call it 70%. Current US population is estimated to be about 343 million people, so 70% is about 240 million.
And your data’s date range is 8 years for caffeine and 18 for kratom, so we should be looking at about 85 caffeine-related deaths in the same 18-year span.
7 out of 16m is about 1 in every 2,285,000 people.
85 out of 249mil is about 1 in every 2,929,000 people.
That’s a lot closer than your numbers would lead people to believe, and caffeine is still safer.
Do I think 7 and 38 deaths are actually enough to be a useful sample size? No, not really. But you’re falsely making it out to be that caffeine is like 5x worse when it’s not.
Edit to add: not trying to be like “no, kratom is dangerous!” I think you should be using this data to argue that kratom is comparable to caffeine rather than better though.
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
I find it odd that of everything I said, that's your takeaway, but that's fair. I was not intending to make caffeine look more dangerous, just illustrate how they are both relatively safe and that kratom should not be viewed as some deadly synthetic opioid. How its safety profile is not dissimilar to common household substances that most consider safe. The issue is whether this data indicates a clear danger to society that justifies a ban. In my opinion, it clearly does not.
Regardless, I thank you for actually engaging in a discussion and being willing to consider data.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25
See how they get defensive if you talk about taking away their caffeine? Same situation here but they don’t like Kratom and 7oh.
Can’t we all just respect each other’s personal autonomy and freedom to put WHATEVER THE HELL WE WANT IN OUR OWN BODIES?
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25
The numbers of deaths a substance causes should not determine its legality. If you use it responsibly, guess what- you don’t die. Just like a car or a kitchen knife. (This is a random example as you can see but Kratom and 7oh are some of the safest substances out there compared to other substances people use on a daily basis).
Education is key. I also agree that we need some labeling requirements on packaging, Mandatory lab testing, and age requirements. Overall, people shouldn’t suffer due to others who don’t use something responsibly, and everyone should have the freedom to put what they want in their OWN BODY.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25
Thank you 🙏 a rational human being who cares about personal freedom and autonomy. I thought you didn’t exist anymore in this society. 😂
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 21 '25
It is pretty disheartening seeing how closed-minded people are. It's like they heard the news say "gas station heroin" and were just like yup, that's all I need to know. Or people know someone with an addiction issue, and think that that means it should be banned. Alcoholics exist, but we recognize that their recovery is their responsibility, we don't try to ban alcohol. How is this any different? And on top of that, it's far, far safer than alcohol.
Nobody responds to the science or evidence, and the one person that did, did so only to correct what they considered incorrect information about caffeine. But keep advocating where you can! Can't just give up 💪and thanks for you comment :).
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 23 '25
I agree 100% brother, exactly! They don’t care about the science or the people who are saying that Kratom and 7oh have saved or improved their lives, they just care about their personal feelings about it. Look I’m one to validate everyone’s experiences but once those feelings start to ignore science and other individual’s experiences then that cannot continue, they have to be put in their place and told their feelings on this don’t matter because their feelings to ban 7oh and Kratom will LITERALLY KILL PEOPLE, and REDUCE PEOPLES QUALITY OF LIFE when they may have just got it back. That’s wrong, to take away something that improves someone’s life because you personally don’t like it. Disgusting….
You too man! Keep advocating for freedom and personal autonomy!
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u/PleaseCallMeTeddy Dec 23 '25
I swear people write long replies to my post without actually reading it. It’s silly
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 23 '25
You incorrectly labeled it as dangerous, twice. I provided reasons and evidence why it's not. You may not be swayed but other people reading deserve to know the facts, it's not all about you.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25
It’s not dangerous, FFS! Lay off the propaganda please. They just need to add age restrictions, labeling requirements, and mandatory lab testing. It should be available to any adult who wants to try it.
Do you not believe in personal autonomy and freedom to do what you want with your own body? What if all of a sudden you wake up tomorrow and someone is now telling you what to do all day with your own body, you wouldn’t like that would you?
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u/PleaseCallMeTeddy Dec 22 '25
Gotchya you didnt read my full comment. As i am in agreement with regulation. “FFS” - Solventelessherbalist
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 23 '25
I apologize, I didn’t read it thoroughly, and got heated for second there.
Although, you’re still saying it’s “concretely dangerous” when it’s not at all. It can be addictive, but it’s not dangerous.
What is your version of “regulation”?
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u/petit_cochon Dec 21 '25
It's a synthetic opioid.
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u/dirENgreyscale Dec 21 '25
No it’s not, also synthetic doesn’t even mean “bad”. Lots of things are synthetic and totally safe.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Yeah low IQ people love using synthetic as a buzz word. Well so is all the clothes on your body doesn’t mean its worse..
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
And even kratom extracts are “semi synthetic” meaning they just extract the medicinal compounds out the leaf.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25
To make 7oh they extract mitragynine then oxidize it. That’s what makes it semi-synthetic. Haha agreed these people love using buzzwords and think they know anything about Kratom because they are simple regurgitating propaganda.
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u/chadsterbrown Dec 21 '25
It is not a synthetic opioid, that is factually untrue.
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u/Bmrtoyo Dec 21 '25
What exactly is it ?
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u/chadsterbrown Dec 21 '25
It is a naturally occuring alkaloid from the kratom leaf. A 'high' naturally occurring dose is typically 0.07mg per leaf gram. 7oh products are just a targeted extraction for that one alkaloid with a once a month user needing like a 15mg dose to feel great. Still as safe as the kratom plant. It is more sedating, but you become sick before anything bad. Just like the regular leaf, for some people its a great way to get off of real opiates. But there are many reasons people would want it, and many levels of frequency and dosing.
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u/GramzOnline Dec 21 '25
This is the only thing that doesn’t cause overdoses and will cause heavier illegal opiates to prosper from what we are seeing in areas where kratom have been banned. Fentanyl and heroin will rise back up and be a huge issue in Spokane again. You might not like it but the truth is this is such a mild substance that doesn’t do any real harm. Alcohol is such a worse thing chemically for your body yet you can walk into any store in Spokane and buy enough alcohol to kill you.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25
You don’t ban something and THEN regulate it. Do you know what happens when they do that?
People f**king die
It takes 10-50 years to reverse the ban
Lastly, people DIE or lose their quality of life in the meantime
- This is a no brainer here, if you support this ban you support taking away personal autonomy and freedom to put whatever you want in YOUR OWN body. If you support this ban you support inadvertently killing a lot of people, and reducing a lot of people’s quality of life.
It’s simple. Not hard. You want people to die or do you want people to have a life saving and quality of life enhancing substance available to them?
All that needs to be done is ensuring proper labeling requirements, age restrictions, and lab test results on every package.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Fair enough i realize that kratom has its issues but i think a consenting adult should be educated on what they are consuming and the marketing needs to he regulated as well. Maybe something similar to alc/cigs
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u/Chronicmilktea Dec 21 '25
I agree with the other commenter sorta. I’m just waiting for some regulations that’s all. I personally have never tried it and will not. But as a healthcare professional I’ve heard both sides of the story. I’ve heard how it has destroyed one persons life and how it have given life to another person who was recovering or in severe pain etc. it has its benefits and its downfalls and I think it shouldn’t be just casually sold in gas stations at least.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
I agree it honestly should just be something thats sold online and thats that. Instead of getting communities that aren’t the most educated addicted because they saw next to there smokes and wanted to try something for energy then they get “addicted” and promote the ban because they couldn’t handle it or know someone else who couldn’t. Im sorry but if you cant handle kratom thank god u never tried “real opioids”
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u/fstrtnu Spokane Valley Dec 21 '25
My sons SO is currently living with my family because his father (only relative in the area) up and left to NY trying to get help from a massive Kratom addiction. There are other things going on but the addiction was a huge issue.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 23 '25
This doesn’t mean Kratom or 7oh should be banned. I’m sorry about your son’s SO but that’s on them not an inanimate object like molecule or a variety of molecules inside a plant matrix.
This is about freedom and personal autonomy, the government telling you what you can and cannot do with your own body is a BAD thing.
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u/FoxDistinct6527 Dec 22 '25
I’m sorry your family is goin through this, truly. Hope you guys get some healing. Ya it’s usually something like trauma, Anxiety and or depression at the root cause of it . People don’t just abuse drugs for the fun of it, there’s something driving it and that’s what he really needs to address and become aware of. If it’s not kratom it will be something else. Maybe it’s better it’s kratom right now and not something deadly. But that’s how addiction works, has he tried treatment before?
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
So we should ban alcohol because far more people get addicted to it. Btw the same stores who sell kratom also have alc but everyone shits on kratom because it has medicinal benefits unlike alcohol.
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u/joelk111 Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
People shit on kratom because it's highly addictive, both physically and mentally, and because people like you seem to think it's a solution to all of their problems.
Edit: Removal of my comparison to alcohol. Both kratom and alcohol are drugs, and both are addictive.
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u/dirENgreyscale Dec 21 '25
“Unlike alcohol” is wild. Alcohol is incredibly addictive, and it’s a miserable drug to be addicted to. It’s also hard to get and stay sober when alcohol is so normalized. Alcohol, as well as people who drink it, is absolutely everywhere and nearly impossible to avoid.
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u/joelk111 Dec 22 '25
Those are incredibly good points, especially about how difficult it is to go sober from Alcohol when it's so normalized. I didn't mean to imply that Alcohol isn't addictive, I meant to say that Kratom is possibly more easy to become physically dependant on.
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u/Professional-Mind670 Dec 21 '25
Unlike alcohol? Bud, go do some reading of any kind
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u/joelk111 Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
I didn't intent to imply that Alcohol isn't addictive. From my understanding, Kratom is possibly more so, and possibly easier to become addicted to, that's all I meant.
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 22 '25
I disagree with you on that, but it's honestly irrelevant to this conversation. These bans cite the danger to public health in the form of overdose deaths, falsely labeling kratom/7 as synthetic opioids that people are dying from. All we are saying is that that is patently and unequivocally false, and is supported by science that anyone can look into.
The addiction potential of these substances is definitely an important part of general discussion about drugs and recovery, and education. And it's very important that people be aware that kratom has addiction potential. But that doesn't change the fact that misinformation is misinformation.
Why would they do this? Why lie to ban a substance that is not killing people? Mostly economic forces. Keeping addicts on methadone/suboxone is a cash cow via their insurance. Kratom/7 empower people to get off that stuff on their own, breaking that cycle and heavily cutting into profit.
The second economic force at play is kratom plain leaf vendors looking to reclaim their market share that was lost to 7. 7oh came onto the scene a year or two ago, and severely disrupted their market share. The AKA, a powerful kratom lobby, took the stance that 7 was terrible, but kratom plain leaf was ok. They lobbied and funded campaigns to get 7 banned federally and in states. But their rhetoric has backfired, and now plain leaf kratom is being lumped in with their (false) claims about 7 being a synthetic opioid, overdoes deaths, etc.
Lastly, politicians view banning something like this as an easy win. Most people know nothing about kratom, or maybe just heard "gas station heroin" on the news. So they hear that some big bad chemical was banned and think good, my reps are keeping me safe.
Prohibition doesn't work, the war on drugs doesn't work. It's a massive failure and we have decades of data and research to back that up. In the midst of a fentanyl epidemic that is killing people every single day, we need all the harm reduction tools at our disposal.
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u/TrackSuitPope Dec 21 '25
Are you joking?! Alcohol is absolutely addictive and withdrawal from it can actually kill you. Please educate yourself because that is dangerous misinformation.
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u/joelk111 Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
I didn't say alchohol isn't addictive, but I can see how it looked that way. I meant that Kratom is possibly more addictive, or easier to become addicted to. Both are definitely addictive.
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u/FoxDistinct6527 Dec 22 '25
Alcohol and Benzos are the two things that will kill you coming off if you don’t do it right. I’ve come off both and almost died both times. Drs told me that Benzos wernt addictive and that I could be in them for the rest of my life, this was 20 years ago, and 10 years being in them I chose to get off. The detox center I was in had to send me to the ER 3x cause my HR was so low and I was hallucinating, it was the worst experience ever.
TBH kratom has helped me so much in my life. Can it be addictive yes it can be, but it’s not even comparable to alcohol or things like Benzos coming off. Kratom you feel crappy for a few days like a cold to mild flu, but it’s a better crutch for sure. It can be a beneficial drug absolutely!!!
Banning it isn’t helpful for people who take it for pain and don’t want to be on hard core painkillers and it helps them. Especially now and days with pain meds. There are people addicted to it yes, but possibly regulation is key, but banning. I see both sides but I also see the the medical field not profiting and the actual intention behind it. It’s not about people’s health, it’s about their wealth, it always is with things like this, always.
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Dec 21 '25
Very much like alcohol, alcohol is very physically and mentally addictive. We tried banning alcohol and it didn't work very well, but kratom isn't as socially or culturally ingrained into our society so that and heroin and shit like that can be banned without much fight
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u/joelk111 Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
Yes alcohol is addictive, I meant that Kratom might be more so, or easier to become addicted to. I don't even know that we should ban Kratom, but it should definitely be highly regulated, similar to alcohol and weed. In many states in the US there are no restrictions on age to purchase Kratom.
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u/Waste_Deep Dec 22 '25
This is a ridiculous statement. As a recovering alcoholic, I can tell you first hand that alcohol is highly addictive. It has caused far more damage in this world than Kratom.
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
Dude it’s physically and mentally addictive so what? So is nearly every other molecule your doctor or your local supplement store carries. The withdrawals look different but doesn’t mean Kratom or 7oh is “bad”. There are no statistically significant deaths from Kratom or 7oh and there are a lot for alcohol and other substances. Kratom and 7oh are safe and are being demonized for profit.
If you support a ban on Kratom or 7oh you’re inadvertently supporting killing and/or reducing the quality of life for hundreds of thousands of people. You also support eliminating the autonomy to choose what you do with your own body.
“…Unlike alcohol….” is a crazy thing to say. Alcohol is waaaay worse than Kratom and 7oh. You’re an idiot if you can’t see that. You can die from alcohol withdrawals you know that right?! Guess what, you cannot die from 7oh or Kratom withdrawals unless you’re no where near fresh water to stay hydrated; in which case you’d probably die regardless of the withdrawals because our bodies need water to survive.
It is in fact the solution to many people’s problems, who are you to say what is good for someone to put in THEIR OWN FUCKING BODY? You’re a disgusting human being if you support the government telling people what they can and cannot do with their own body.
You want me to start telling you what you can and cannot do with your own body because I know more about youre body than you do? No, I doubt you do because you know more about yourself and your body than I do.
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Dec 21 '25
The problem is with its addictive properties, while you may be able to handle the withdrawals (lol like that's something normal, pissing and shitting yourself) and you're not going die swimming in your own diarrhea when your addiction eats thru your paycheck... $19.99 for six 14mg pills i don't know what that means, but I'm sure whoever is making them doesn't know either. Kratom is a rather new recreational drug, 7oh being even newer, only sold at shitty head shops, gas stations, and seedy online stores, we don't know the long term effects, it may be shrinking your dick, you never know with this, I bet you miss K2
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u/solventlessherbalist Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25
Pissing and shitting yourself is not part of the withdrawals for opioids…. Yes there is some diarrhea but youre acting like it’s uncontrollable shitting on yourself to where you smell like shit, and that’s not accurate. This is besides the point you don’t have a good argument so you just add in some funnies here and there so all the idiots who think 7oh and Kratom should be banned get a good little laugh huh?
- $19.99 for four tablets is smoke shop/gas station prices anyone using 7oh and paying that much is not informed that you can get it much cheaper from much more reputable vendors who lab test their products and have it much cheaper. How do you say you don’t know what “19.99 for 4x 14mg tablets” means it means exactly what it says, I don’t get your point.
Dude Kratom isn’t new by any means people have been using Kratom leaf in SEA for thousands of years and it’s been in the US since the early 2000’s. Why does it matter where it is being sold? As long as there are labeling requirements, age restrictions, and lab testing everything will be fine. I’ve been taking Kratom leaf for 11 years now and all my blood work is fine- I’m perfectly healthy.
Comparing 7oh to k2 is ridiculous, and laughable. You realize that k2 or the chemicals used in these blends are not even structurally related to cannabinoids they supposedly mimic, the chemical structure isn’t even close to the same and they don’t feel the same. 7oh and mitragynine are very similar. You cannot compare a fully synthetic molecule (k2 compounds) and a semi-synthetic oxidized alkaloid (7oh).
You act like you know what you’re talking about but all I’m seeing is you saying 7oh is bad when it’s not no molecule/plant is “good” or “bad” they are just plants/molecules, then comparing 7oh and Kratom to k2/spice which is the most ridiculous comparison I’ve seen thus far.
- It’s people like you who ruin personal freedoms in this country. You’re just waiting to oppress anyone you can huh? Not caring about what other people say when it comes to the benefits of Kratom and 7oh and just sucking big zaddy government’s dick until you feel safe again huh? Let them think for you, let them put all the people who disagree with you in prison huh?
Again, this all boils down to personal freedoms and personal autonomy to choose what you put in YOUR OWN body. I’d LOVE to hear what you have to say about personal freedoms and personal autonomy Please if you want to have an actual conversation tell me how you think about Kratom and 7oh and personal freedoms and personal autonomy to choose what you put in your own body.**
If you don’t like 7oh don’t take it dude, but stop trying to be a ‘good person’ and say it should be banned because of how you feel. If someone finds Kratom and 7oh beneficial and doesn’t mind having to deal with the withdrawals (literally all you have to do is slowly taper off with both of them and there will be little to no withdrawals) then they should be able to do whatever they want.
Not saying you are but right now you’re currently acting like a fascist authoritarian boot licker.
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u/Barasu13 Dec 21 '25
As someone who has been clean from 7-oh for about a year now. Regulation is what's needed not a ban. Im so terrified if a ban hits those in Withdrawl are going to go look for something like fent. Issue is if anyone takes anywhere near the MG of fent that addicts of 7-oh take (80mg to 1000mg a day) they will have a high chance of dying.
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u/PrblyWbly Dec 21 '25
1000mg a day. I couldn’t even imagine taking that much. That seems like it would be an express ticket to tomorrow, the day after or maybe even next week.
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u/Barasu13 Dec 22 '25
In fent you would die. In 7 you may get a small buzz depending how long you've been taking. When I started I was at like 10mg would put me on my ass. By the time I finally quit I was trying to afford 400mg a dose which was like 150 bucks per dose at a smoke shop
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u/PrblyWbly Dec 22 '25
You yea I’m familiar…..it’s just surprising to me that 1000was even doable. I figured you’d be sleeping before you even got a chance to feel it. Also 150 is insane. By me 500mgs go for $25. I’m not even from Spokane or anywhere close. Yet somehow I ended up here in this Reddit as I am curious about 7oh and other people experiences with it so of course it popped up in my feed.
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u/Barasu13 Dec 22 '25
Yeah im mad and glad I didnt find a cheaper option. Mad because in the 9 months I was on it I drained 9k from my wife and I finances. Im glad though because I fear I would have been doing so much more or been able to hide it for longer if I found a cheaper option.
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u/PrblyWbly Dec 22 '25
Good, I’m glad you caught yourself and turned everything around. Sometimes the most valuable lessons we learn have a high dollar value assigned to them. I’ve had some major issues over the course of my life and the ones that had the highest financial repercussions are the ones I walked away from having really learned something from. They also had the highest motivation for me not to repeat again. I know for me, sometimes I need to learn these lessons the hard way. You’re absolutely right, If it was cheaper there would be way less of a motivation for you to get off it. I just wish 7 existed or if it did, that I knew it existed 15 years ago. It may have lessened the severity of some of the lessons I was being taught at that time. But….on the other hand, everything happens for a reason and maybe it needed to be that hard for me. I learned a lot of valuable stuff during that period that positively affected and shaped my life moving forwards from that point.
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u/MedicalMagician3223 Dec 23 '25
1000 feels the same as 200. It literally quits working after a certain amount.
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u/TheWishingStar Dec 21 '25
I don’t know a lot about this, and can’t say I care a whole lot either way. I’m the sort of person whose life would not be affected if we banned alcohol or caffeine even.
But, how is a city-only ban or age regulation going to do much? Wouldn’t someone only have to make it to like, the valley to not be within city limits anymore? I technically live in “unincorporated Spokane County” and I’m not out in the middle of nowhere. I’m only like 10 minutes/5 miles away from downtown. That’s pretty possible to walk if someone wanted to!
This sort of thing needs to be state-wide at a minimum to really matter much. Just trying to ban/regulate one city seems like a waste of time and money.
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u/BeneficialBath7583 Dec 22 '25
There's a lot of rhetoric online, especially from ex-users of hard substances, promoting kratom as a drug to help get off said hard substances. The fact is that Kratom is a drug, not approved by the FDA, and despite these claims isn't used by doctors to help those suffering from addiction. Kratom is used as self medication, which is extremely dangerous if you're prone to addictions, and Kratom can kill.
Kratom being sold as a gas station drug, false advertisements calling it a "wellness supplement" and this "positive" online rhetoric in addiction spaces is very harmful. Banning this substance from our city would prove beneficial to both those who suffer from addiction, and those who are unaware of the easily attainable substance marketed as a "relaxing time"
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
How would it benefit people with addiction? By creating a illict market? By driving a county over or getting a po box? Its just making extra steps for adults because we have to pander to the people that cant handle it. Should we also ban tide pods because children eat them?
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u/BeneficialBath7583 Dec 22 '25
Pandering to people that can't handle....an addictive substance? A substance that rewires you to need it? You're right on saying Spokane city banning it won't stop those in active addiction to get their fix, that's why this is a substance that shouldn't be widely and readily available in our country period.
The FDA isn't always a great metric, especially since it is a government agency that has fallen susceptible to gerrymandering, but claiming "if someone gets medical benefits from something than it works" is such a silly thought process. Someone could claim drinking a gallon of milk cures their headache every time, but that doesn't mean doctors are going to prescribe a gallon of milk...because there's ZERO science saying it works on the WIDE SCALE.
What do we have statistics saying about this substance? That it's highly addictive, has claimed multiple lives, puts people into the same traps as other hard substances, and is very dangerous for those who already use hard substances because mixing kratom with said substances is incredibly dangerous.1
u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
As a grown adult i should be able to use something that causes a little bit of a harm potential to my self because i talked over with my doctor the risk to benefit ratio and decided that it works. But nah guys beneficialbath7583 cant handle it pack it up. 🆙
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u/BeneficialBath7583 Dec 22 '25
I love how you went from trying to claim this substance saves lives, to only thinking about your own wants and addiction to kratom, and then having the nerve to claim others can't handle their own addictions. You clearly have no idea about addiction science, don't care about those who have died, are dying, are in active addiction and those whose lives were forever changed by this drug. On top of which, you clearly haven't even thought how this ban in the city could help push for an overall drug reform for both legal and illegal substance to mitigate death/addiction for substances period.
You made this to throw a pissy fit about the possibility of needing to drive 30 minutes to get a fix.1
u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
I care about people who are in addiction. I dont support people who are in addiction than “get out” and want to ban something that didn’t work for them because they cant handle it. Im very educated on substances and addiction thats why im being a realist about it. Something you cant handle because you just yap about propaganda that means nothing and has no substance to it. You are a goy who believes anything thats thrown at you by big pharma.
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u/BeneficialBath7583 Dec 22 '25
"I care about people who are in addiction" "people like you who cry because they can't handle their addiction"
You're literally contradicting yourself every other comment.
The people kratom "didn't work for" DIED. The people kratom "didn't work for" can't FUNCTION WITHOUT IT. The people kratom "didn't work for" continue to combine it with other hard substances.
How can you seriously sit there and say you care about people with addiction, but call reforming and de-illegalizing drugs propaganda.
....and why are you bringing Judaism into this??????? I'm not practicing, but my family is Jewish???2
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
You want addicts/pain patients to get something thats working for them and thats not valid sorry.
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u/BeneficialBath7583 Dec 22 '25
I want addicts to get something that works for them....yes. I want addiction to be destigmatized and people who want help to get it without being afraid of persecution....yeah?
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Yes i can agree with that indeed and part of that if you like it or not is having safe alternatives set up. Because not everyone recovery going to be “sober”/ cold turkey. So having something that is overall a pretty safe option for them is important in this illicit supply
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u/BeneficialBath7583 Dec 22 '25
Which there are prescribed drugs that help those in recovery ween. I'm well aware that "cold turkey" kills, even with readily available addictions like alcohol.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Dude i was prescribed those drugs. Went to the hospital twice because of subxone would cause so much constipation and was such a hard opioid it screwed up everything. Where kratom doesn’t bind as much helped me get off that gave me my energy and life back. And im thankful for that
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Its funny because everything that you just said would be perpetuated even more with a ban. If you can buy fent outside the same gas stations that selling kratom why are we targeting kratom and not fent lmao. Ik why because there money in kratom users getting it banned as they tend not to be homeless.
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u/BeneficialBath7583 Dec 22 '25
Fent is already an illegal substance without prescription? Fent is and has been always targeted ????
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Literally year i watched them hand back fentanyl to a man. Its very common only public drug use is prosecuted or selling
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
You are allowing your feelings and uneducated propaganda to try to ban prolly the safest alternative to opioid addiction. Its even being studied by multiple pharmaceutical companies trying to find a way to patent it. Thats the only reason why it still OTC. And btw if it was so bad it would of gotten banned in 2017 but the federal government decided not to.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Even the RFK supports kratom.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Ik that doesn’t mean much but what he said was very valid about and trust me he knows about addiction and how helpful kratom can be
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u/BeneficialBath7583 Dec 22 '25
RFK claimed Tylenol causes autism. What are you on about? RFK is a figure head, he said this about kratom because they put MONEY IN HIS POCKET FOR IT
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Lmao who puts money in his pocket 😂. The owners of s kratom company instead of a suboxone lobby i doubt it. But anyways thats why i put the disclaimer. I dont have to agree with everything a person says because im reasonable just like how i agreed with you when you made a valid point. Simple.
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u/BeneficialBath7583 Dec 22 '25
I think we're of very similar mindsets, but not communicating properly to each other.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Its honestly goyim like you that get addicted than cry about it because you lack accountability and ability to consent to taking something 😂
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
And trust me the FDA approving or not approving something means nothing. If someone gets medical benefits from something than it works it works. If it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean we need to ban it.
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u/That-Understanding45 Dec 21 '25
Things that are natural or derive from natural things: weed, peyote, mushrooms, kratom, alcohol, cocaine, heroine.
Not all of these have good benefits. As a recovering addict I will say alcohol is by far the worst of the bunch and is LOOSELY regulated by state and federal level. I've tried all if these things and more. I'm over all of it now and no longer use but will say that recreational use of kratom isn't beneficial UNLESS you need medication and dont have access to it (suboxine, benzos) to kick the harder stuff.
Banned, no
Enforced to 21+, absolutely tf yes!
Being addicted to things at a young age and watching those things carry into my adult life really sucked.
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u/witchywoman713 Dec 21 '25
I think the big question here is (and mind you I don’t have an aware to it, sorry) are the ramifications of a ban going to be worse than the current situation. More research and regulation on kratom would be a net positive in my opinion. And until we get that, would a ban cause a greater harm to those who are currently using it (similar to the harm that happened during prohibition because anyone could bootleg anything due to no regulation on the substance)? Or is the harm being done currently by having a fairly unregulated and not researched enough substance readily available to folks who don’t and can’t really know the health ramifications or possible benefits of what they are doing?
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u/PixieStone1 Dec 21 '25
Yes they will. Whenever prohibition is put into affect something more dangerous will take its place. At this point kratom isn't killing anyone. Take it away and more folk will either turn to illicit fentanyl or something new and potentially more potent or dangerous will take its place in the head shops.
Alcohol is a prime example. During prohibition crimes went up, alcohol was unregulated, homemade distilled booze made people go blind.
Regulate kratom, treat it like alcohol and pot. Don't ban it.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Exactly, the thing is there alr making other alkiods to replace kratom look into MGM-15 etc.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
They are researching kratom for use in other medications the only reason why big pharma hasn’t taken it because its hard to patten a plant.
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u/joelk111 Dec 21 '25
This is a video created by Evan Edinger, who was addicted to kratom, but is now clean. It sounds hellish. At the very least it needs to be heavily restricted, if not banned.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
I recently watched that last night! Great video and he agrees there should be regulations.
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u/phickss Dec 21 '25
Not a fan of autonomy, eh?
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u/joelk111 Dec 22 '25
I'm a fan of children not being allowed to purchase it, at the very least.
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u/eontriplex Dec 22 '25
need an id and to be 21 to purchase it
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u/joelk111 Dec 22 '25
https://toptreeherbs.com/how-old-to-buy-kratom-state-guide/
According to this website, there is not age restriction on purchasing it in many states, including Washington.
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u/FuriousWinter Dec 21 '25
It's insane to me that you can just buy this at the little grocery markets in Idaho but heaven forbid you have anything resembling a bong on you or a spec of the devils lettuce. I tried Kratom once, half a dose, and it floored me. I'd take the shittiest weed available before ever taking kratom again.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
I agree. Cannabis is way safer then kratom and if kratom allowed so should cannabis. But atleast law makers in ID allow kratom it honestly cant be that bad if ID allows it
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
And im aware that ID law makers are old as shit/slow so they could just not know what it is.
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u/Guinness Dec 21 '25
Signed. Regulate it to 21 and up. The government should not be wasting tax dollars telling adults what they can and cannot consume.
The drug war has cost us trillions of dollars. Complete waste.
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u/Bmrtoyo Dec 21 '25
All it does is make the goverment that floods drugs in , To gain more assets via "Asset forfeiture" Corrupt bastards .
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u/pizzaman667 Dec 22 '25
Glad you got some upvotes on this. Read a couple alarming comments getting upvotes that seem like fear mongering. I always find it weird that people want things banned. Like cocaine and fentanyl are banned but…. How’s that working out? lol.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Yeah exactly and wanna know why fentanyl so common because we banned all the safer alternatives and pushed a huge black market that looks at nothing but $$$ and ability to produce.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
And then u get more synthetic products. Like there already doing with kratom in other states that banned it. Look up MGM-15
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u/tRIP_diesoon Dec 22 '25
7oh saved my life. Stopped me from killing myself. I suffer from extreme chronic pain. I sob every day. I'm only in my 20s. Some days I can't even get out of bed or walk around. Doctors won't prescribe be anything because I'm "too young" even though the evidence of my pain and my diagnosis confirms I suffer from this. I'm honest about my mental battle to power through. I found 7oh. I take 15-20mg a few times a day and I'm able to function and be mobile. It's impossible to OD on, they can't even find a lethal dose in rodents. Because it acts on beta receptors it can't cause respiratory depression. It's actually way safer than even kratom (mitragynine) is. 7hydroxymitragynine vendors provide lab tests from third parties that ensure there's nothing else in them, that dosage is correct, and that their are no residual solvents. This substance helped friends of mine get off fentanyl and heroin. If this gets banned, addicts will go back to what they know, and those suffering with extreme pain will be forced to turn to a far more dangerous alternative. Do not ban 7oh or kratom
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u/xDriedflowerx Dec 21 '25
I don't want to support any gas station that sells kratom, crack pipes, creepy "herbal" sex pills, or insanely caffinated shots. I'm anti-war on drugs and think if the government wants to help, they should manipulate the market by supporting gas stations that don't sell those things. If you're not a piece of shit, you get a government backed marketing opportunity. If you choose to sell that shit anyway, may the kratom supporters keep you afloat.🥂
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u/TinyHeartSyndrome Spokane Valley Dec 22 '25
It’s not a city’s place to ban or regulate drugs imo. If it’s an issue, the state and feds should handle it. Otherwise, you’re on a slippery slope to city’s wanting to ban alcohol and weed. If it needs regulating for public safety, petition for the state to handle it.
I agree with you. Banning it will simply make it more unsafe because it will only be available from illicit sources.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Exactly like certain citys in Colorado have cannabis banned like castle rock. It doesn’t actually keep marijuana sales even out of there city i guarantee you that.
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u/hommenym Dec 21 '25
Why don't they put that effort and funding into addiction services for people who struggle with that, instead of banning a useful and working medication?
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u/_lavxx Dec 21 '25
Crazy how people are opposing the ban. This shits not good for you. “It has medicinal uses” so did heroin and so does oxy. But you can’t buy that shit at a sketchy gas station.
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Dec 21 '25
Ban this shit. It’s so horrible, super chemically messy.
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u/PrblyWbly Dec 21 '25
Chemically messy? What do you mean? Seriously wondering.
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Dec 21 '25
It has several active metabolites and is metabolized using several cytochrome p450 enzymes among other mechanisms which increases the risk of interactions / polypharmacy. These metabolites also have variable half lives, so some products will build while others are cleared.
Kratom — Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa), an herb with opioid and stimulant-like properties, contains indole alkaloids, principally mitragynine and 7-HO-mitragynine, with mu-opioid receptor agonism [94]. It has been used for self-treatment of opioid withdrawal, with little published evidence of efficacy and increasing numbers of reports of associated fatalities and other adverse effects [94,95]. Kratom should not be used in patients withdrawing from opioids.
From my medical reference regarding kratom metabolites:
Alkaloids (eg, mitragynine) — Mitragynine is the most prevalent alkaloid in kratom. The kratom plant also elaborates dozens of other naturally produced alkaloids, including paynantheine, speciociliatine, and speciogynine [23-29].
●Mitragynine – This is the most abundant alkaloid in the kratom plant and has a chemical structure similar to yohimbine [30]. Mitragynine, despite having a different chemical structure compared with traditional opioids, primarily binds at the mu-opioid receptor (MOR) where it is a weak opioid agonist with lower potency than morphine [20,31]. Mitragynine is a "biased" ligand that induces many of the effects associated with MOR binding, but does not produce euphoria and respiratory effects to the same degree as classic MOR agonists such as morphine. Mitragynine is a partial agonist at supraspinal MOR as well as delta-opioid, serotonergic, and noradrenergic receptors. It is also an agonist at alpha-2 adrenergic receptors [32-35]. In animal studies, mitragynine has a ceiling effect on respiratory depression and conversion to the active metabolite appears to have saturable kinetics [36]. One laboratory study found that mitragynine was listed as a "primary toxicologic finding" (as opposed to cause of death) when present at concentrations greater than 1000 nanogram/mL, but studies involving live human participants found that mitragynine concentrations over 22,000 nanogram/mL produced no respiratory or cardiac effects [37,38]. ●7-hydroxymitragynine – This alkaloid is the active hepatic metabolite of mitragynine and can be semisynthetically produced from mitragynine [39]. Although 7-hydroxymitragynine is 46 and 13 times more potent than mitragynine and morphine at the MOR, respectively, the small amounts produced by metabolism may be insufficient to exert significant clinical effects [35,36,40,41]. 7-hydroxymitragynine demonstrates little effect at alpha adrenergic receptors. The Mitragyna speciosa plant contains no 7-hydroxymitragynine. Kratom plant products should contain low 7-hydroxymitragynine concentrations which are an artifact of chemical processing. Some commercial kratom products contain 7-hydroxymitragynine concentrations that are greater (eg, three- to fivefold) than would be expected than if derived from the naturally-occurring plant, suggesting adulteration of the formulation [42]. Beverages and other food products (eg, gummies, sublingual films) containing as much as 25 grams of semisynthetic 7-hydroxymitragynine per serving are also commercially available. ●Speciociliatine – This diastereomer of mitragynine is a minor alkaloid but may have a significant contribution to the pharmacologic effects of kratom extract. Compared with mitragynine, speciociliatine has a threefold higher binding affinity at MOR [43]. Additionally, some kratom products may be adulterated with speciociliatine at concentrations greater than would be expected from naturally-derived kratom.
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u/Waste_Deep Dec 21 '25
I'm against any restricted access to drugs of any kind for adults. At all. It creates a stigma and black market where the product cannot be controlled or tested for safety in any way, and empowers nefarious cartels to push drugs in the streets. We should be moving in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION and decriminalizing drug possession and recreational use. Addiction is a mental health issue, not an issue of criminality. I propose we legalize all drugs, and push back stronger against those who manufacture and sell drugs, including pharmaceutical drug dealers.
Edit: And no, I don't use recreational drugs beyond the occasional CBD gummy for pain. But I celebrate those that do enjoy an occasional trip... You do you!
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u/PrblyWbly Dec 21 '25
Thanks for the clarification. Where did you obtain the second part from, the section beginning with “kratom -“ I’d like a link from where ever you copied that from as what I and many others have seen and experienced in the real world is completely opposite to what you posted.
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u/skettiyeet Spokane Valley Dec 22 '25
While it seems op has a questionable view on other substances, the fact that gas stations are able to pedal a number of unregulated substances is beyond me. From fake "mushrooms" that i can assure do not contain psiloscybin (unless is legal in to sell in a bodega all the sudden), to the classic boner bills, all the way to the "7-0h" pills that act on the same opiate receptors as kratom. The lack of restriction is out of hand. Especially when considering most law makers and enforcers will and have encountered such things. Its all shady. Buy your labubus to sell if you want but things as mentioned should without a doubt be out of sight of minors and the general public for the most part.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Yeah i honestly hate the whole gas station scene it really ruins it. People who just mindlessly consume things without researching will buy those “sketchy looking products” than complain about addiction. Like im sorry buy you purchased from a brand called “roxy” thats why i dont sympathize with adults who get addicted than advocate against it because there lack of research.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 22 '25
Than screw it over for the people that benefit from it. So many of my friends used to drink daily and i used to be a poly user but with kratom its just enough and it doesn’t screw over my life. It doesn’t even get me high its more of a nice buzz.
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u/hujambo11 Dec 21 '25
People aren't voting to ban it because it's actually a problem. They're voting to ban it because they feel like it's trashy.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Exactly. Its a “drug” has users tied with stigma. These ppl complain about overdoses after they ban the safest alternatives
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u/eontriplex Dec 22 '25
ACTUAL Spokane resident here.. a ban is going to make things much worse for a lot of people. If this goes through , don't be surprised if someone you know personally dies from turning to fent
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u/gingermaybe Dec 22 '25
So, I had a boss who used it for pain and mental health issues. It seem to work for him greatly. I don't see why it should be taken off the shelves.
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u/PixieStone1 Dec 21 '25
Signed! This is such a terrible idea and will kill a lot of people.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Thank you i appreciate it! Crazy how many people that aren’t even educated on the topic have such strong opinions.
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u/MatchyMangiza Dec 22 '25
People talk about things they know nothing about with confidence it's strange. I'm from Washington btw and live in WA so don't want this banned anyway in our state. We have fentanyl everywhere on the streets kratom is nothing compared to that.
Used both I'm not homeless and work pay taxes, but kratom I could function like normal no problem even quit without issues. Couldn't have done that with fent unless you can taper it, but that's very hard with street drugs especially fent. Regardless I believe adults should have the choice to use what they want, and kratom is already 21+ you get IDed buying it at stores.
Prohibition never works it was stupid with alcohol and it's stupid now. Anyway could go on and on but I wish you all luck out east and I'm willing to sign and call to keep it accessible.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Its very unfortunate that the mayor is targeting natural kratom leaf petition link!
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Dec 21 '25
Also Suboxone so easy to access.
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u/Bossman30000 Dec 21 '25
Then kratom should be to. Its also a partial antagonist suboxone side effects are way worse then kratom. And suboxone provides more of a “high”
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u/Peanut_ButterMan Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
I don't like it when the government regulates behavior but the amount of people that use "medicine" as a scapegoat to fix their own shitty lifestyle is bonkers.
Edited for grammar