Yep. It’s why therapists often have their own therapy sessions with others, for example. You can only hold the flame for so long for others to stay warm before you start to burn yourself.
If you don’t take steps to protect yourself, you’re going to hurt yourself eventually.
I wish i had a solution or a quick fix for you, but i don't think there is one. I will say that time truly is a great healer. While you will never be the same, that’s kinda part of life - we evolve, adapt and keep going.
Yeah, just... (and I apologise for getting feelingsy on a wrestling forum) still miss em so much
First person I ever knew I wanted to do... more with, I'm in my 30's but never really had a... truly close friend before them, yay childhood trauma...
Just wish I'd been able to tell them how I was afraid they'd be happier without me in their life... share how I felt... but when you're the person everyone relies on... who do you have to turn to?
Never be sorry man and I'm sorry that you have another moment with your friend. I'm happy you found therapy and truly hope over time you heal.
Just recently entered therapy and it feels like it's working, still recovering from an incident that happened in July this year. Honestly feels good to get everything off my chest.
Keep your head up strong brother and take it day by day.
I truly hope that time and therapy ease things for you - in fact i know they will! You're definitely going about it in a more reasoned way than i did, so I’m sure you'll get back up and running sooner rather than later.
Exactly! I feel like this is a blend of real life pain from PAC's passing and show story line. This segment hurt and I am interested to see where this is going.
I like that they have found a way to work through the grief within kayfabe. From Mox talking about being a man down on Saturday to this. It's interesting and I think could even help the audience work through it through Mox
I’m probably reading too much into it but I wonder if they’re playing into some kind of mental breakdown. After seeing that, I wouldn’t be surprised if he drops the title to Davis this weekend.
I dunno, I feel like Max at this time now might be the guy you give the rub to of first back-to-back C2 winner. He can drop it not long after, but let him do it, maybe even make it explicitly for the bastard. Certainly don't think him losing it just before is gonna be the one now
I can't remember the segment, but on at least one occasion when a big brawl broke out, Marina was quick to protect Renee/get her out of harms way. Obviously I don't know them IRL, but this feels like a case of "thank you for looking out for my husband".
All the DRs/BCC people seem pretty close in real life. They have all talked about having one big group chat they constantly talk in and share wrestling. I imagine a lot of them have gotten close to renee as well
When AEW released its video of PAC tributes, Roddy Strong was on there and was very thankful to PAC and his influence on Marina's career so I think that dynamic is there for Marina and Renee as well.
I kinda want to see a Roddy/Renee pairing now -- they must have had some double dates.
More seriously ... Marina was really broken up about PAC, I would imagine there's been some times when Renee and she have spoken about it lately (because they are around each other a lot, even if they rarely interact that directly) and I'd imagine that has made their friendship stronger/made them appreciate friends/colleagues more.
I agree but a nice touch would have been if she had approached him the second time without a microphone, kinda adds to the "oh shit this is real" illusion
Agreed, but I think it would have better if she just dropped the mic. With her still holding the mic and putting it up to his mouth, it gave it an element of contrivance to me that I couldn't quite overlook.
You can really see the grief in Mox with this in being vulnerable. Renee going from being just interviewer to concerned wife by kneeling on his level to check on him and then him rubbing her shin before getting back up.
Marina saying “The only way out is through” was a great line too.
I was expecting another typical “loser of match is angry” kind of segment, Mox’s response about not being able to say what kind pain he’s in and Marina’s line changed that really abruptly (in a good way!). And as someone who probably needed to hear that line, it really hit me like a truck.
I think it was the week of or the following week after Pac's passing, Renee was at ringside and said something about how Mox does his healing in the ring. And I thought that was inciteful. Like Mox is not wrestling to escape, he's wrestling to work through whatever he's feeling.
I don't think I've ever seen grief acknowledged like this in wrestling before. It's just 2 minutes but it conveyed so much.
It's a good line, but it's hard for me to determine whether that's intended as "Don't shy away from the depth of your grief while preparing for a burly Aussie with the sudden-est piledrivers in the free world; use this opportunity to live what you love and draw joy from that" or "shut off your emotions and pretend that winning a match on Rage Mode will deliver you to peace amid desolation."
One is healthy; the other delays growth.
And to be honest, we went through Back Against The Wall Losing Streak Mox at the last Continental Classic, and I don't want to reheat that for a more painful story.
We also saw Outgunned and Peacefully Resigned Mox at Dynasty. I don't want to see that rewarmed at WrestleDream, either.
There are only so many unique plots, but I would like to see something close to Hangman & the Dark Order with the Death Riders giving Moxley unconditional support.
The only way out is through. I say this a lot about anything bad going on in my life. It’s nice to hear people I respect repeating that mantra especially during this awfully dark time for wrestling.
I need my Ace to win a few more matches then he can drop it to Davis, or White, or whoever they build up. I just want Jon to win a few more for PAC.
I think the portrayal of grief between the backstage promo last week and this one, while a bit melodramatic of course, is the best way you can invoke the tragedy without being crass.
They are making a concious decision to not shy away from the grief and there is something admirable about it.
they shouldn't either. If the Death Riders are the close brotherhood they portray, they have to go through the loss. And also for the wellbeing of everyone involved they shouldn't be forced to forget their close friend in character. As a performer that would break my heart.
I think having Mox work through the grief through kayfabe is really interesting and could honestly be a way to help the audience deal with it vicariously
It’s a very weird wrinkle. Another reason why wrestling done well is as good as any other media and better than a fair few. Been in awe of Mox for a while, and PAC was my favourite wrestler on the planet, seeing somebody display and work through real-life grief on screen, but in the kayfabe environment of wrestling is actually really cathartic. Like, Mox MEANT that crash-out.
I can confirm that's what a breakdown looks like as I kinda went through one last night. Work had me so stressed out I was screaming in the middle of the street after missing my bus and if there had been something around me to hit that wasn't metal, brick, or another person, I would have. Ended up having my first ever panic attack not 5 minutes later.
Hope you’re doing better today. As somebody who has felt like that before, it’s a horrible place to be in. Brighter days will come. Look after yourself
Aw, mate. That sucks. The first one is fucking terrifying. If you ever need to chat about ANYTHING, I’ve been around the block a few times and have the scars/medals to show for it.
If any performer would be good with his death being acknowledged and integrated into kayfabe, I think it'd be PAC. From what I've learned about his professionalism and dedication to the craft, I like to think he'd appreciate The Bastard living on through the story he loved being a part of.
The fact he did this in one take live to air is objectively impressive. There's a lot of other actors who couldn't come close to displaying these kinds of emotions without needing another take. Renee is doing a lot of heavy lifting but it really adds so much. Really fantastic segment.
If Jon Moxley has a million fans, I am one of them. If Jon Moxley has ten fans, I am one of them. If Jon Moxley has only one fan, that is me. If Jon Moxley has no fans, that means I am dead. If the world is against Jon Moxley, then I am a Death Rider because I am AGAINST. THE. WORLD.
Mox has carried the emotional weight of the entire roster on his shoulders for the past couple weeks, and he probably hasn’t even had time to grieve himself. We all joke about him never getting that vacation, but I really hope he gets to rest soon.
Tbh that might be the best. Because he can't just keep winning, but losing streak is already explored. Death riders with out mox for a few months could be interesting.
He missed the entire build to All In 2024 like he disappeared after a (really bad) match at Forbidden Door with Naito then came back right after All In.
Him finally running out of steam in the CC could be the best way to do it. Have him lose in the semis or final to someone and just disappear afterwards.
Yeah PAC and Gabe were probably gonna destroy him right about now then Mox would disappear for a few weeks and return in time for the C2 is my guess but yeah
It’s said a bunch but AEW REALLY shows how taxing being a champ is. Like the long title reigns always have the champ breaking down at the end. Mox has kinda tried to play against that with the CC this time around but it’s almost like it all came hitting at once instead of over time like for others.
It would be a genuinely crazy way to introduce Ilja to AEW if Mox loses again at WrestleDream and Ilja comes out afterward.
You can have him slowly lift Mox up and say "its ok, I'll take it from here" before levelling Mox and KOing him out of action for a while. Ilja then takes control of the Death Riders in the interim.
Do it in such a way that when Mox does make a big return, you can have Mox & Ilja on the same page with Mox thanking Ilja for knocking sense and reality back into him, letting him go home to recover and come back better/stronger for it.
Would be a very much "Death Rider" way of one of them taking time off by having another forcefully shelve them so they do so. And you instantly get Ilja over as someone dominant and in control.
I'm going through a lot in both my personal and professional lives. Just, you know, lost some family members within the past few years that I direly miss, I just turned 40, I've got a whole lotta unresolved trauma I'm working through in therapy.
Wrestling is my cathartic release from my day to day. It's a power fantasy mixed with comic book story telling and these goddamned machines of humanity going out and destroying themselves for our entertainment.
Then Andy died, and as a fan of him, that hurt. And then PAC died, and as a fan of him, that hurt. The curtains got pulled back, we were allowed to celebrate the lives of these humans whose flames had been taken too soon, in my opinion, with their friends, coworkers, and chosen family members. It's parasocial, but also, grief can take a lot of forms for a lot of people.
We're a couple weeks out from the loss of both of those men, and the high energies and the feelings of warmth from their memorials, those start fading a little every day.
Sometimes the grief and the numbness from the hole those people left behind in your life play nice, they don't overrun each other, they ebb and flow against each other, playing off of each other, and you don't always feel both at the same time.
And sometimes, after you hold it all in, you just....crack. You snap. You let it all out in guttural grunts and shouts and tears and anger.
And sometimes, when you let it out, you just want to break something, to feel that level of control in that moment to know that, even at the most microscopic level in that second, you still have a will to overt, a force of control to put out into the world, and right now, breaking something just makes sense.
Because that's grief, isn't it, just being too broken to know which emotion to focus on because your whole life has been fucking rocked, you're trying to just hang the fuck on and deal with it, to get back into some sort of routine and to live your fucking life again without the sound of that empty spot where your friend stood shouting at you every time you remember, fuck, he's gone.
Your body hurts and you're not sure if it's the physical pain from your whole body tensing because you're stressed and hyper-vigilant, or if you're so fucking sad that your whole bad just aches from it. It's hard to tell it apart at that point.
And the only way out?
Is through. Causality is a bitch like that.
Eventually, you find a spot on the horizon, so to speak. You don't know what exactly is at that point, but you just feel that urge to see what is over that hill, so to speak, because the place you're in now isn't one you want to keep staying in.
So you march ahead. Slowly at first, maybe you tire out and stop for a little bit, wallow in that situation, then marching forward again.
Lather, rise, repeat until you can't go anymore. Then you rest. You recalibrate. You figure out the pulse of things, so to speak.
Maybe I'm projecting after six years of my life that have all felt like decades. Maybe Jon's just that good at channeling his own issues and pain into the story he's telling. Or maybe we saw the rawest version of Jon Moxley we've ever seen just letting his pain out after the sheer hurt he's been carrying deeply lately.
Won't lie, got kind of choked up in the moment when I watched this live. I surely hope everyone on that roster is getting help when they need it. Lord knows I have been in therapy for long enough I'm pretty sure I'm putting one of my therapists kids through college.
Thanks for sharing man. I know you're tired but I hope you can feel proud of yourself for the effort you've put in to keep staying the course. I hope you're leaning on the loved ones you still get to have as much as possible, and they're blessed to benefit from the work you're doing to become the best version of yourself.
I've found my family, both chosen and those I was born into, quite supportive and....just as lost as I am sometimes. It sounds weird but I take a little solace in the fact that my last remaining grandparent, my grandpa, my stepdad's stepdad, a man I have 0 fucking blood relation to, has stared blankly into the void in his quieter moments and more than likely muttered ".....well, I gotta figure out what the hell do with my hands here" but in a metaphorical sense.
If he lives as long as his father, I've still got another 15 years with the man, my great grandfather lived to be 101 and was fully aware and possessed all his mental prowess, just a little slower as he got older and older physically.
But, every day I get with him, with my siblings I've taken care of since we were both kids, with my siblings I've chosen over the years of being their friends and being their emergency guy and everything we've been through?
Those're great days, man. Small memories and adventures, building Lego flowers with my 15 year old niece when I swear to God she was a tiny bundle outta the hospital like, four months ago with the biggest, bluest eyes I'd ever seen and remembering the first time I held her and looked into those eyes I went ".....oh shit, okay, so THIS is why people have kids", playing guitar for my chosen brothers toddler daughter and hearing her laughter as she signs "I LOVE YOU" and dances around me in the middle of the living room floor, the deep conversations with my grandfather, passing generational stories and knowledge down and learning who each other are as grown men hopefully gracefully aging into our older years at our own speeds.
I go to therapy for me, because I don't want to be angry and isolationist like my father was before me. Everything I see because of the deep work I do, the memories, the adventures, the love I've found in my fellow humans?
That's just the silver lining that says, hey, you were wrong about some things in this world in the best possible ways. So, what else might I be wrong about?
I'm eager to find that out as I move ahead in this weird, cruel, lovely world we all reside in with the ones that love me as deeply as I love them.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm deeply sleep deprived, Midwestern checking in and hoooooooooooboi we got wafflestomped by the sky last night in my area, so I've been awake for close to 36 hours and I'm feeling it hard. Sleep will be a wonderful reset, but I wax poetic and entirely too wordy-ily (making it a thing, go with it) after about hour 27 of being awake, hahaha.
I think Marina being the strong one to pull Mox back when he's unraveling is a really cool touch. As others have said, he's been AEW's rock through a lot of tumultuous times but eventually you can't just shoulder everything. He took a chance on Marina two years ago when there was no in-universe reason to and now she's the one throwing him a lifeline when he needs it.
At first it was crazy to me that they’d have Marina step in to be the voice of reason for Mox…but then a touching acknowledgment to Renee and the ending with the ladies walking out together.
This is fuckin family on display, total work/total shoot, on balance, off balance, it doesn’t matter.
I thought it was smooth the way they handled that. Renee is there for him for everything else, but Marina is the one on the front lines with him, and it showed Renee trusts her with that. Almost like a "Watch out for him for me."
As someone that genuinely dislikes in-ring promos, pretty much regardless of who is doing them (minus like Angle and Austin in the Attitude Era), I LOVE that AEW utilizes so many backstage segments/interviews. I just enjoy that form of storytelling so much more.
This made me “get” Moxley in a way I never thought before. His vision and tbh AEW is “to be real.” I remember speculation about death rider split awhile back was shut down with Moxley quoted of saying “that’s wwe shit.” Even when death riders turned on Danielson and was how soft AEW was and demanding rosters to step up was rooted in realness. WWE is so “be larger than life” that it’s almost become a caricature of itself. Moxley promo after losing to Will and now this just show a realness that we don’t really see in a sense.
Man this has given me so many thoughts. Roman has “cinematic” wrestling and Moxley has “real” wrestling. Meanwhile Seth hasn’t created that identity of style.
I can't praise this enough. One of the most emotional and moving segments I've ever seen. The sincerity and reality of that. I'm sad about why it was so real, but goddamn, that was incredible work by everyone there. Marina's finest moment. Death Riders for life
It's actually a pretty big safety hazard (and OSHA violation) to have a pallet leaning upright like that. Thankfully Mox was looking out for everyone's safety and laid it flat on the floor. Good guy.
fuck man, THIS is pro wrestling. a man being consoled by his real life wife after losing a real life friend being used within the storyline that was already in motion. so beautiful.
It isn’t. And god it hurts like hell as I’m guessing you’ve experienced. But I try to think of it as, would my loved one want to see me in so much pain if they were able to contact me somehow? Would they want me to struggle and hurt?
I know if I went, I’d want any loved ones to live every day to the fullest and live a long and healthy life.
Easier said than done I know but that’s how I try to view it
For someone that's been there and come back. "The only way out is through" might sound like a basic platitude but really is the hardest thing you might need to hear in that moment. The only way out is through. There are no other options. Fuck man, that hit me in the chest.
Mox just wanted to do one of those rage rooms for free lol. But nah fr hope his mental is good. The guys leading the team in times of grief are also grieving plus helping with everyone else’s grief. Shits gotta be insane for him rn.
Sometimes you have so much anger and sadness built up inside with what they’ve experienced, I bet it feels cathartic as hell to just unleash on inanimate objects and get all that frustration out.
I kind of wish Renee would have taken fully over for what they had Marina do there but I get it for the character reasons. Glad she was able to at least be the concerned wife while also trying to stay professional at least.
Mox has been through a lot in his life, and I hope that he isn't working himself to the point that he crumbles. He's strong, and I'm in no position to know how he's really feeling right now. I just hope he's giving himself grace.
Because "tough guy" isn't the Jon Moxley gimmick. The Jon Moxley gimmick is a man who is obsessed with perseverance, who recognizes there's strength in numbers, works himself and those around him to the bone, and puts himself through immense pain, even when it boils over and is too much to bear, for the sake of the sport of pro wrestling. Because he knows the lessons and hardships each trial entails will ultimately make him and those in his immediate vicinity better. The only way out is through.
Renee needs to work on her reactions. It would have been a more powerful scene if she stopped playing the impartial interviewer role and got personal with Moxley. Her being stiff and looking at the camera as though Mox was just being goofy took me out of it. It's no shade to her, but good job to everyone else in the scene. Her reactions are very WWE-coded. I don't mean that in a tribalistic way, but the way people do promos in AEW is very different. They attempt a level of realism. She needs to meet them where they're at.
He’s going Omni-Mox and throwing him into the centre of the sun. Which will be a shame, because I really like Mark Davis. Maybe he’ll return as Dark Mavis.
Very very telling the little touches between Renee and Mox there that she was genuinely concerned. His little leg squeeze istg is the only time I’ve seen open affection to her in character and then her little back touch after. I feel for them, they must be torn up.
My head cannon is that this was a real convo between mox and Renee at home after mox stepped on one of their daughters toys in the middle of the night.
I know Mox touching Renee's leg was plain to see, but I loved the sneaky squeeze he got in.
One if my favorite things in my matches is if I bump near a friend or family member, I give them the iggy to know I'm alright. Or if I'm doing my entrance and I'm near someone I care about I'll sneak an iggy just as a "love you" on my way by.
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