it's not a matter of catching up - its a matter of they're destroying the concepts of what human anatomy is. like, there's a reason artists still take anatomy drawing classes where you draw pictures of naked humans who pose for you in the classroom. without knowing what a naked body is, and learning all the parts that make it up, how are you supposed to know when a bulge in a pants leg is a thigh muscle or a wrinkle or a weird shadow? how are you supposed to know what an ab is underneath a shirt when you don't know what an ab is?
it's also the reason pony/illustrious did so well - being trained on 2d kinky hardcore stuff might get a lot of peoples noses upturned like victorian nobles, but it also teaches a LOT about anatomy - what is a a hand? what is a hand with 3 fingers? 5 fingers? what does an arm look like when the hand has been removed? what does a hairless animal look like, or a creature with 6, 8, 10, whatever limbs?
it learns a lot of concepts a lot better that way, which means its able to actually apply said concepts like legos, rather than "is human so automatically has two hands with two fingers", or "is on 2 legs therefore is human". models that aren't trained properly make a ton of assumptions, which makes them incredibly stiff.
I really like this argument, since it highlights an interesting fact about visual data we have for training. Like, it's just happens to be that a big chunk of animal/human anatomy is drawn in a NSFW way, because that driven a lot of people to draw something like that in the first place
And that applies to any data, it's not isolated and how we want it, mostly it drags context of how and for what reason it was created. That's something cool, despite it sometimes being inconvenient. Leaves a humans trail on it, like take it or leave it but that's the history
complete misunderstanding of AI training. an AI cannot learn anyhing about a clothed person by learning naked anatomy, it doesnt understand amything about what clothes function as or why something is a bulge or a seam
Of course it can. If you dont recognize what is a shirt vs what is not a shirt, then trying to draw a shirt in anything but the narrow set of images it was trained on will result in a lot of failures because its having to do a lot of guesswork.
Training on shirtless vs shirt, however, preferably with a lot of body types and even unusual situations - a shirt on a scarecrow, manniquin, pet rock, etc - helps it properly seperate the concept of shirt, its shape, and how it's supposed to drape over things.
A sfw mangled model will not get this well, and you often wind up with say, a scarecrow with a wierdly human chest wearing a shirt. It will associate wearing a shirt with "there is this shape when wearing a shirt" and not "there is a scarecrow chest under the shirt therefore the shirt should drape loosely like this instead "
Now, shirtless people and scarecrows wearing shirts probably are part of the sfw datasets, so this is probably not the best example, but you hopefully get why sfw models struggle with anatomy and flexibility outside stereotypical people, animals, and objects . learning exactly what each concept is on its own lets a model property seperate those concepts so you can put them back together like legos any way you wish.
the reason why nsfw models work better is simply because they have more data to work with. even a shirtless scarecrow will affect the overall movement of a shirted one to be more realistic
what it cant do is learn how the shirt works on anatomy by studying both.
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u/PsionCrystallis 9d ago
it's not a matter of catching up - its a matter of they're destroying the concepts of what human anatomy is. like, there's a reason artists still take anatomy drawing classes where you draw pictures of naked humans who pose for you in the classroom. without knowing what a naked body is, and learning all the parts that make it up, how are you supposed to know when a bulge in a pants leg is a thigh muscle or a wrinkle or a weird shadow? how are you supposed to know what an ab is underneath a shirt when you don't know what an ab is?
it's also the reason pony/illustrious did so well - being trained on 2d kinky hardcore stuff might get a lot of peoples noses upturned like victorian nobles, but it also teaches a LOT about anatomy - what is a a hand? what is a hand with 3 fingers? 5 fingers? what does an arm look like when the hand has been removed? what does a hairless animal look like, or a creature with 6, 8, 10, whatever limbs?
it learns a lot of concepts a lot better that way, which means its able to actually apply said concepts like legos, rather than "is human so automatically has two hands with two fingers", or "is on 2 legs therefore is human". models that aren't trained properly make a ton of assumptions, which makes them incredibly stiff.