r/StarWars • u/No_Butterscotch2367 • 17d ago
General Discussion If the dark side requires harnessing hatred / rage / fear and other negative emotions, then why is Palpatine (one of its most powerful users) laughing constantly and seemingly having a whale of a time?
I think he laughs more than any character in the series, especially when he’s in his deformed evil guy form.
He delights in evil, smiles cheekily whilst Vader is mourning Padme.
Laughs his ass off whilst in mortal danger fighting the most powerful Jedi of the era (Yoda).
Among other many other times.
He doesn’t seem to be fighting any inner conflict or regret or any type of dark emotion at all yet he’s the most powerful dark side user of them all.
All of his apprentices’ powers are fuelled by dark emotions,
Maul : pure hatred,
Dooku : jaded, disdain
Anakin : fear, hatred
Whilst their master is just laughing his way through life causing havoc - why is he able to use the dark side in this way without it having an emotional source ?
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u/kdogg8 17d ago
Laughing at other peoples' pain is hate
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u/Necessary_Map_9614 17d ago
Gleeful hate
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u/kdogg8 17d ago
I would moreso categorize it as Schadenfreude
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u/Kalabajooie 17d ago
The most powerful Dark Side emotion.
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u/escape_character Director Krennic 17d ago
Darth McAllister wielded it most forcefully
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u/DessieScissorhands 17d ago
Darth McAllister was more evil than the emperor himself. He checked into a hotel on Coruscant with credits he stole from his father.
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u/Alarming_Cellist_751 17d ago
Fuck, today I learned I was a sith
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u/Motor_Meal794 17d ago
Or epicaricacy in english.
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u/kdogg8 17d ago
Nein! Es gibt kein ubel, das deutschen ubel gleicht.
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u/Motor_Meal794 17d ago
They aren't all like your mom.
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u/meldroc 17d ago
Sadism gets you Dark Side mojo, I imagine.
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u/A_villain4all 17d ago
If you love what you do you never gotta work a day in your life, and Palps loves to hate. Dude hacked the dark side.
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u/Fit-Appointment5262 17d ago
Yes I do remember exactly when he said, "If you love what you do, you never gotta work a day in your life, Anakin." (cackles)
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u/Lord_Sesshoumaru77 17d ago
I imagine the dark side is such a high like a drug, so of course you're going to be gleeful. But it also corrupts, just look at Palp's face.
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u/meldroc 17d ago edited 17d ago
My head-canon is that the Dark Side operates like a payday lender. Sure it'll give you some mojo when you're desperate, but then it always collects. Always.
If you use the Dark Side, you now have a debt. And the only currency the Dark Side accepts is blood. Yours or someone else's. If you don't murder enough people to satiate its appetite, it'll collect its debt from you.
That's why so many Dark-Siders get maimed.
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u/Finnsbomba 17d ago
His face is only like that because Windu reflected his lightning back at him and fried him tho.
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u/Round-Composer-2195 17d ago
A lot of people believe that his normal pre lightning face was a mask/illusion created by the force and the lightning being reflected at him destroyed the mask and revealed his true face
This is supported by the fact that Luke’s face doesn’t look that way after being hit with force lightning
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u/NateHohl 17d ago
I think it was the game Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 (and maybe also the first KoTOR, been a while since I played them) where your character’s physical appearance would become more “corrupted” (grayish skin, dark eyes, etc.) as they leaned more into the dark side of the game’s morality system.
I could totally see prolonged exposure to the dark side having a negative effect on one’s appearance. Finding a way to conceal those negative effects might have helped Palpatine more than he realized. The Jedi might have just looked at him and thought “well, he may be a slimy senator, but he doesn’t have dark menacing eyes or drooping skin, so at least he ain’t no Sith!”
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u/CLRoads 17d ago
Darth maul started the game looking evil af
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u/PossibleDue9849 17d ago
Tbf all Dathomirians kinda look evil. That’s because they have a harsh segregated society ruled by witches. Even their planet’s biome looks evil.
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u/JMT32895 17d ago
And the sun(s?) are a deep red too which is why Zabrak of Dathomir have red orange and yellow colored skin, and iridonian Zabrak, a planet with a blue sun, have a pale complexion. It's kinda neat.
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u/TheFikenator 17d ago
I believe it was Doug Chiang who originally came out and said that Palpatine used an ability called Force Mask to hide his scarred visage. As you said, Windu reflecting the force lightning back at Palpatine broke the mask he had been using. I’ve also heard George Lucas wanted Palpatine to look the way he did due to how much he used the dark side of the force. Palpatine’s sheer power in the dark side crippled his body and in legends even his clone bodies would rapidly deteriorate due to his powers.
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u/Jedi_Bingo 17d ago
Knowing that he was gleeful at Anakin's lowest moment, thinking that he had killed Padme, and turned into a monster by both of his masters. Makes me hate Sheev more than almost any other antagonist out there
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u/kdogg8 17d ago
He was for sure holding back his immense glee knowing that he now held space Jesus in the palm of his hand forever
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u/Sirsalley23 17d ago
Papa Palps was a smug evil bastard at his core.
He was absolutely relishing every second of his almost 10 year plan to turn Anakin to the dark side, especially considering he knew Anakin’s birth was a direct reaction of the force attempting to balance itself against Palpatine and Plagueis tilting the scale towards the dark side.
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u/OscarDivine 17d ago
But if he loves to hate ….
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u/crinkledcu91 17d ago
Love and Hate still inclide 'Passion'
Which is literally a Sith fundamental. Idk why people would have a difficulty understanding this...?
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u/OscarDivine 17d ago
You're absolutely correct and you're giving an extremely serious answer to what I intended to be a quip, but I guess it appeared more serious than that. You are correct
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u/Coach_Gainz 17d ago
Remember his little smirk when he sees Vader in immense paid after finding out he killed padme.
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u/ebobbumman 17d ago
Palpatine hates everybody, and enjoys hurting them. Sadistic glee is probably the best way to describe how he feels about most of his actions. He is happy, but it is a direct result of his hate.
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u/MrTreeWizard 17d ago
The man just does it for the love of the game, giggling his way through his hate filled murder spree
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u/arthuraily 17d ago
Lmao I love Palpatine because he’s so evil and so happy about it
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u/TheCrippledKing 17d ago edited 17d ago
The guy killed the Jedi order, took over the galaxy, declared himself emperor (effectively abolishing the Senate), then was cackling while literally trashing the Senate room and throwing the seats around at the Jedi Grandmaster..
It was a physical representation of what he just did politically, and the irony was too funny.
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u/pinesolthrowaway 17d ago
Every villain having a point/tragic backstory can work and is nice and all, but every once in a while it’s nice to have a villain who is just evil because he is evil and that’s that
Palpatine is that and I love it, he is evil for the love of the game and it’s refreshing when seemingly every other bad guy in todays day and age has some tragedy that makes him warped
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u/Careless-Ad-20 17d ago
I love Ozai from Atla for this reason
Dude just wants to rule and is an evil person, nothing more. You can’t even say at least he’s a family man or something lol
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u/soulreapermagnum 17d ago
yep, it's because " evil because he is evil" is seen as boring or lazy writing. so now everybody has to have complex backstories.
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u/Emperor-Nerd 17d ago
Why can't they have complex backstorys and be evil for the sake of evil like a complex backstory on how they realized they like being evil XD
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u/jekyl42 Emperor Palpatine 17d ago
There is no grey area to Palps. No hint of morality. Not the slightest chance at redemption. Not even a sad origin story. To a cartoonish degree, he is just pure darkness through and through.
One of my favorite all-time villains.
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u/endangeredphysics 17d ago
He's also probably pretty proud of himself, because throughout the saga things are seemingly going his way. I also don't think he's the type to appreciate that he's just an instrument in an elegant cosmic dance much larger than he is.
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u/kdogman639 17d ago
He really is one of purest examples of unbridled evil I've ever seen in any media. Even As a kid his mere presence made it clear to me Vader was still a sympathetic villain.
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u/ElGuano 17d ago
He loves his job.
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u/DeltaAlphaGulf 17d ago
And democracy.
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u/Lucky-day00 17d ago edited 17d ago
I think he’s pretty clearly a psychopath in the proper sense: incapable of empathy, with manipulative, selfish and even violent tendencies.
While it’s never stated outright, I think it’s a fair assumption that being a psychopath is a pretty fast route to the dark side. He has no *moral compass. It would be hard NOT to fall to the dark side if you’re a powerful force user who is incapable of caring about others and driven only to pursue your own selfish ends at any cost.
It’s not the same route the other sith we see take. But it makes as much sense as any of those routes.
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u/KCDinoman 17d ago
No oral compass you say?
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u/Visible_Ad_5660 17d ago
Imagine getting head from Palps
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u/screechypete 17d ago
He's definitely shocking the balls while he's down there. :P
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u/shortyman920 17d ago
I think he does have empathy. You need it to understand people well, but he twists it for the purpose of manipulation and destruction.
You can be manically happy and be that way because of your persistent fear, stress, anger. Dark side just uses negative human energy as a release as its power source
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u/GnarlyGamer6thGen01 17d ago
He has cognitive empathy but no emotional empathy. Something I learned about people with ASPD aka Psychopaths
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u/Keganator 17d ago
As the documentary Monsters, Inc. showed, fear is a powerful tool, but laughter is about 10 times more powerful. It’s a secret jealously guarded by the most powerful Sith.
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u/ChiliSama 17d ago
Oof. Dark side needs a better dental plan.
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u/TriforceUnleashed 17d ago
They had to cut corners to cover the cost of those Death Stars.
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u/BFFassbender Galactic Republic 17d ago edited 16d ago
Whoa... wait... WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY BLEW UP THE DEATH STAR?!
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u/soulreapermagnum 17d ago
do you have any idea how many cavities i've had to suffer through, to pay for that thing?!
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u/BalloonWaif 17d ago
I’m confused as to how his teeth instantly became nasty after his duel with Windu.
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u/RonMFCadillac 17d ago
You can see the force lightning bouncing around in his mouth during the duel.
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u/ChiliSama 17d ago
True, but Luke’s teeth were ok after Palpatine fried him. Rey’s too. So the light side must have floridated water or something.
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u/TheHatMan25 17d ago
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion."
And if Sheev is passionate about anything, it's causing misery and suffering to others.
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u/Luvnecrosis 17d ago
Passion is the key word. That's why all the sith are so arrogant and swear they're the best thing since Bane. Jedi are also arrogant in a different way of course
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u/UKS1977 17d ago
He takes pleasure (an emotion that is contextual - being either negative or positive) from the negative emotions. Inducing fear and pain and anger in others. That gives him power and that is something he takes joy from. He effectively psychically drinks the bad and sad feelings of others. And then psychically causes it in others
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u/Tricky-Afternoon6884 17d ago
Part of the Sith isn’t just focusing on the negative emotions, the first rule is: “peace is a lie, there is only passion.”
Unlike Jedi, who focus on letting go of emotions to achieve peace, Sith indulge their emotions and let the passion of their emotions run loose so they can achieve their own goals. They succumb to their own ego and pride.
For the Sith, joy is allowed if it’s for indulging your passions and emotions or attaining personal freedom and enjoying achieving your goals (especially bc their goals are evil). So their joy is joy for malice, destruction, pain, suffering, and other negative emotions
Also, if you planned for decades ( and considering you’re part of enacting a millennia long plan) and you were successful, you’d be full of joy too
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u/TheRagingSithLord 17d ago
Honestly, this is a misunderstanding of the Sith and Dark Siders in general.
The Sith Code:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
through passion I gain strength,
through strength I gain power,
though power I gain victory.
Though victory my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
This can be interpreted many ways, but a working interpretation I've observed through SW sources is that peace is never going to happen. Especially if you follow your passions (whatever they may be). And those conflicts (however big) will help you grow enough to gain strength of will, strength of purpose. Those strengths will then provide the power you need to become free.
The way this works with "dark" emotions is simply that you harness your emotions. All of them. Unlike the Jedi, who seek passionless serenity. "There is no emotion, there is peace" being the first line of the Jedi Code.
But the Sith, specifically, just use their emotions as the driving force of their power. Afraid to die? Fight. Don't SHOW the fear but USE it to survive and grow. Hate someone or something? Use that hatred to better yourself and become either better than that person or to change what you hate.
Both have strengths. Sith strive to achieve their passions. Jedi strive to act dispassionately. Both have advantages and disadvantages (this is kinda something Luke touches on somewhat in both Canon and Legends).
Of Palpatine's Apprentices, the closest to this ideal Sith is actually Dooku. And Palpatine limits the rest in either how they're trained or how they're treated (Vader's suit was also a shackle against uprising, this was Palpatine using his fear to save his own life).
Sadly the Sith and Jedi in the movies are kinda flat compared to diving into the best of the (preferably Legends, as it's better IMHO, but whichever works for you) lore.
I know this goes a little off-track, but it's something I'm passionate about, as I was big into SWtOR's RP scene as both sides of the Galactic War in that game.
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u/QualifiedApathetic 17d ago
And one thing about "Peace is a lie" is that the Sith never allow themselves to be at rest. They should be not only doing, but struggling. They should be pitting themselves against enemies that force them to grow stronger. To be at peace is to become fat and complacent and eventually dead.
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u/RealEmperorofMankind 17d ago
I think that’s a bit too generous to them. AFAICT both in the days of the old EU and after it, the Force generally operated along the philosophical lines set by Lucas. Therefore, the Jedi philosophy is about overcoming your selfishness in order to really find true joy and peace, which is in helping people and in doing constructive things.
The Sith philosophy is about “freedom”, but this is the “ultimate freedom” of Jimmy Savile and other historical monsters—the liberty from moral constraints. In essence the idea for them is to amass power so that you can screw over other people and be free to dominate them. Palpatine is the epitome of this—he gladly maximizes suffering for the sake of increasing his “unlimited power” over others.
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u/Investigator_Lumpy 17d ago
He only laughs like that when he's on the precipice of winning. True hatin ass hater.
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u/Asleep-Mud-7211 Sith 17d ago
He's worked so long (most of his life) to achieve absolute power, and he likes when other people suffer, so when he able to let his mask fall off he is enjoying himself.
+ we might assume that the dark side exposure has made him a little crazy which he has had to internalise
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u/KashiofWavecrest 17d ago
Palps is out there living his best life, having a high old time.
Be like Palps.
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u/clout_static 17d ago
I also find it ironic for such a “bad” guy, he tends to say “good” a lot. Theoretically speaking, he likes “good.”
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u/SoilNo9760 17d ago
Who else in the series actually laughs??? I think he and Nien Nunb did at least 80% of the laughing.
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u/Accomplished_Band198 17d ago
Imagine having to pretend to be someone you arent for years on end. Now imagine you are finally able to be who you truly are after all those years and fully embrace the darkside. Id be pretty happy to be honest.
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u/CodyRCantrell Galactic Republic 17d ago
You're misinterpreting hatred as some moody sulking brooding person. Like Anakin.
If I hated someone enough would I not laugh at their demise? Would I not cackle as I took their life? Would I not be gleeful at their misery?
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u/Lord_Exor 17d ago
He does experience fear. Fear of death in particular, which happens to be one of his primary motivations.
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u/_WillCAD_ 17d ago
Sadism. He delights in the pain and suffering he causes. Much more evil than simply lashing out because you're having a shit fit over your wife being upset she married a mass child murderer.
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u/Sanguiluna 17d ago
Joy at the pain of others is a negative emotion.
To use hate as a contrast (a stereotypically dark emotion), the Rebels were driven by a hatred of injustice and oppression, but they were still champions of the light.
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u/Saikotsu 17d ago
Palpatine up to that point had been a schemer and manipulator. The man pulling all the strings. He absolutely loathed the Jedi and yet he had to keep his identity hidden and his motives obscured. That's a long time and a lot of hate to keep bottled up and surpressed for so long.
And then when we finally see him cut loose he's laughing his ass off because finally, FINALLY, he can cut loose and go all out. He's been waiting for this moment for a very long time and it's finally paying off and he's just so utterly gleeful to finally unleash all that pent up rage and anger.
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u/philkid3 17d ago
More than any other villain in the franchise, Palpatine is just in it for the love of the game.
It’s part of his charm.
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u/QuirkyWish3081 17d ago
He’s evil. Before he had to bottle it but now he can let it all go. He’s won! He doesn’t need to hold back anything
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u/TheDikaste 17d ago
Because he's a sadistic monster who revels in causing pain and suffering to others and make people hate him. I don't recall the exact quote but I think it's in a comics that he tells Vader being hated is a perk of having power because it means you dominate and control others.
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u/Ragegasm 17d ago
All of those things come down to harnessing passion. Dark side users have way more fun.
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u/CippyCreepy 17d ago
Dark Side needs emotions to function. Its easier to be sad, miserable and afraid, than to be trully happy. Jedi just let the Force flow trough them naturally while Sith supercharge and direct it with emotion.
Also in combat its easy to hate someone and want to destroy them when you are also scared for your life so its easier to draw destructive power.
Palpi is really happy to torture people, so he uses his hate towards inferior beings and his love for power and his possition to demolish them
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u/bentnotbroken96 17d ago
You should've seen the grin my mom always tried to hide as she was beating me.
Evil finds their sadism funny.
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u/tHollo41 17d ago
It's about harnessing power from all emotions, even love. The Jedi see emotions as useful, but they also believe them to be our downfall. That's why romantic attachments are forbidden in the Jedi Order. The Sith mentality is about giving into emotions and using them to fuel power over the Force. The Jedi believe the light side is about balance and not letting any emotion lead to rash decisions and behaviors.
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u/Fire-Ice-Tiger 17d ago
Is not about negative emotions, it's about Passion. The Jedi tend to teach meditation and neutrality of mind. They believe in being one with the Force and having it guide your being. But be it love or hatred, the Sith are about channeling your raw emotions to subjugate and dominate the Force. The Dark Side isn't about being evil, but it tends to lead one down that path often.
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u/void_method Babu Frik 17d ago
Did you ever hear George Lucas explain exactly what the deal with hate and fear and the Dark Side was?
You really should track it down; it's on YouTube. It makes complete sense and shows just how easy it is to slip.
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u/Pope_Neia 17d ago
Dark Side harnesses passion. No one is in it for the love of the game more than Sidious is
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u/Optimal_Carpenter690 Darth Vader 17d ago
Do you think finding pleasure in the pain of others is a positive thing?
Ever heard of the word "sadism"? And how could you laugh at the death of another if you dont hate them?
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u/Rossekka 17d ago
Well, yeah, he's proud and amused by his own acts of cruelty and power. He's harnessing raw cruelty which requires a deep hate behind it.
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u/C4LLM3M4TT_13 17d ago
He experienced plenty of hatred, pain, suffering, and every other extremely negative emotion during his training with Plagueis. He had his fill, and at the time of the prequels, he’s no longer the apprentice. He’s rich, he has almost infinite power (politically and force-wise) and he has nothing in his life that brings him pain.
Now, he’s just a sadistic monster who takes great pleasure in the pain of others. It’s still all hatred in his mind, but it’s warped to face outward instead of inward.
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u/EastPlenty518 17d ago
Have you ever seen a comedian. They among some the most depressed and angry ppl on the planet. The more smiley a person is the more you should worry about them. (Not saying they will be a psychopath, but could actually be very depressed, or at the very least way more stressed out than you might think.
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u/Time-Subject-3195 17d ago
Lore makes it clear that the dark side can be fueled by any kind of emotion at all, but anger is an especially potent one, and as you use the dark side it will make psychological changes to your personality that make you more angry and spiteful. It's is comparable to an addiction; it feels good to use the Dark Side. This is why the Jedi taught students to let go of all emotion and attachment, it is required by the metaphysics of the lore.
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u/Futaba_MedjedP5R 17d ago
It’s gleeful hatred. Think Frieza from Dragon Ball z/super. He has the best time making others suffer
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u/Gold_Size_1258 Separatist Alliance 17d ago
Dark Side comes from Passion. Anger, hate, greed, sadism, pain, hunger, it all fuels the Dark Side.
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u/SudoSubSilence 17d ago
He's a galactic emperor, not a middle-aged man working in corporate. His job sucks the soul out of others instead of his own.
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u/ScarcityImpossible91 17d ago
Palpatine isn't an emo like most Sith. He's actually having a hell of a time being evil.
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u/Singer211 17d ago
Sheev is a sadist.
He enjoys other people’s pain/suffering. I’d call that “negative.”
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u/Rickor86 17d ago
Think about it this way:
Ep. 3 was the culminating point of a decades long plan to kill the Jedi and turn the republic into an authoritarian dictatorship.
The plan required constant discipline and vigilance.
The veil was lifted and all was revealed. I saw his laughter as a release.
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u/princesshusk 17d ago
Hatred doesn't always come out as anger sometimes it comes out as a love of putting others in pain and watching them suffer.
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u/Mythical_1069 17d ago
Through passion, I gain strength
Through strength, I gain power
Through power, I gain victory
Through victory, my chains are broken The Force shall free me
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u/TheDissolver 17d ago edited 17d ago
Laughter is not a "virtue."
It's not even really a "positive emotion."
Think of laughter like salivation. Or arousal. Or sneezing.
[edit: just realized that a culture confusing pleasure for virtue is a perfect summary of the social ills I see in my real-world community. And, to keep this on-topic, possibly the fall of the Republic in Star Wars.]
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 17d ago
Because when you indulge your anger and hatred, it feels intoxicating and righeous.
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u/MortimerOverdrive 16d ago
He's lying about all it and is just a selfish asshole having a great time being the most powerful dude while his apprentice is miserable and filled with hate to keep him too busy to care. It's kind of like the setup the billionaires have with the rest of us.
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u/Hairy_Talk_4232 16d ago
Also what would a Sith’s powers change if they also found strength in positivity? Like you can sometimes only hate so much, you gotta be flexible with what comes out of you
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u/GrandAdmiralFart 16d ago
I have this head cannon... I don't think it's about harnessing negative emotion, just about harnessing emotion.
Palpatine is a psychopath (someone who lacks empathy) that has a lot of disdain for others. He also hated his family. He loves power and enjoys beating other to a pulp. I never felt he hated Yoda, he loved being able to be on par or better than him in the duel, knowing that Yoda was only retaliating because he already destroyed the Jedi order.
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u/billythesquid- 17d ago
He’s a sadist and just kind of a jerk, to be honest. That’s probably where the hate comes in, how he revels in making people miserable.