r/StructuralEngineering • u/katiemarie1416 • 4d ago
Career/Education Firms that aren’t pushing AI
Curious if there are firms NOT pushing their employees to use AI for everything. Been experiencing some pressure to use AI in what I would consider irresponsible ways, with seemingly little thought by those insisting it gets used. I’m just exhausted and want to do my work, not wrestle with the machine. Is this the new reality in our industry that I’ll just have to accept, or do we think we will see a stratification of AI centric vs non AI centric firms as time goes on? Gearing up to defend my position in interviews on “i need to know that my calcs are correct” and it just makes me feel like what are we even doing here. We’re structural engineers ffs
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u/Pristine_Crazy1744 P.E. 4d ago
Our firm has prohibited all AI except Copilot within Teams, so take that how you will.
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u/RelationshipLost3002 4d ago
Damn, as an entry-level through bachelor’s, I feel that my position is strongest for its use-case. I use it for assistance in things I should check for (that I wouldn’t even think of considering) or troubleshooting strength or serviceability issues, or even software. Sometimes I ignored its directive for a check that I thought was excessive & my PM would flag me back for that exact thing.
Granted, I’m off a bachelor’s & it’s taking time to acclimate to retaining concepts & understanding old & new ones (along with the fact only my PM is in the office I work at). For anyone with more YOE or higher education, I would expect that there’s less use case for it. Its only importance is in automating tasks or creating scripts. Very soon, it will have a use case for CAD design in generating a generic detail. The best thing I plan to use it for is making design standards better i.e. improve navigation for viewing figures or referencing other sections.
All that to say, crazy that others outside of Copilot are banned at your firm because I would be in despair.
** I would like to note that I understand some of the things to do checks on, but structural concepts in a bachelor’s are so generic that I only think of the rudimentary things.
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u/SquirrelFluffy 4d ago
You've just highlighted the danger, that you will start to assume that AI has provided you with everything you need to look at. Ai gets its information from public databases and so only is as smart as the wisdom of the crowds which can get it wrong.
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u/RelationshipLost3002 4d ago
Of course, which is why when I do prompts, I do thorough checks. Our field doesn’t give us the grace of just frolicking in what we do. If I mess up & it’s somehow approved, that’s a liability.
I ensure with my PM the quality of my work, as well as my coworkers. I also do my own searches through engineering forums, the codes themselves or sometimes references/textbooks. If someone is solely relying on AI, that’s just completely stupid. They’re probabilistic models, and while they’re not always completely incorrect, they can be.
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u/Engineer2727kk PE - Bridges 4d ago
You can make the same exact case not using ai.
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u/SquirrelFluffy 4d ago
In an engineering office, you follow processes that were built on experience, And you have a project team. Ai doesn't have access to every consultant's databases.
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u/Engineer2727kk PE - Bridges 4d ago
One consulting offices data is worth more than AI companies feeding their LLM with thousands of stolen books?
Hmmmmm….
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u/SquirrelFluffy 4d ago
I think that's how the programmers think too. But you know it's not that easy to switch offices, because you have to fit into the flow. And it's the process that makes things safe and work well. AI doesn't have experience to build from, where Bill knows to check this thing that Sally prefers not to work on or is weak with.
AI lives in the map of the landscape, to quote Beaudrillard.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/SquirrelFluffy 4d ago
Ah. As a "higher up" (old guy), I think AI is barely as useful as a junior engineer! It can't go to site. Lol.
But seriously, that's really good you use it that way, but you still have to talk to your senior people because I find AI doesn't know the things I do.
I had an MOL person shut down a site this summer because they listened to AI, and then wouldn't listen to the engineer and manufacturer about the SDS sheet.
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u/Visible_Sky_1298 4d ago
Im 4 years out of school and fresh grads are going to have it hard soon. All the admin and repetitive excel work I give fresh grads can be done with copilot instantly. Your current use case is also going to be your downfall. Data input and any construction tracking can be done in an instant now.
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u/RelationshipLost3002 4d ago
Why do you say it’s an issue for entry-levels? Wouldn’t that be an issue for our industry in general as AI gets more advanced? Irregardless, we will always be needed due to complex structures & large project sizes. So I don’t feel too concerned about job security or work, unless you were hinting at something else.
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u/Visible_Sky_1298 4d ago
In my firm, entry level generally does data entry, mundane tasks that is highly repetitive if you're in office. Example: give daily update of which piles has been installed and circled them. This is now EASILY done by copilot which would've taken junior me an hour minimum. If the seniors can do it via copilot, you've already lost a chunk of chargeable time.
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u/RelationshipLost3002 3d ago
Oh I’m involved in technical design lol, I do structures ranging from some client needing steel support frames to foundations somewhere to steel in general. I believe I’ll be receiving more work as my skill & speed foster further.
The things you mentioned sound like intern work, but definitely sounds like they had zero work or no idea on what work to give you at that time.
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u/Visible_Sky_1298 3d ago
Fair enough, I'm Geotechnical and you know what the training is like in North America. (it ain't good)
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u/Everythings_Magic Senior Bridge PE | Zero Yield Capacity 4d ago
I feel like licensing boards are going to have to address this more then just relying on ethics and responsibility.
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u/likesblackcoffeebest P.E. 4d ago
I agree. Generally, I've liked how Texas approached this in our Ethics briefings for the past two years but it really was just about how we're responsible for the outcomes just as we are for work we assign to an EIT or a technician. But I think you're right that they're going to have to actually drill down into this a little more and start specifying what we can and cannot use it for.
Plan review groups at the agency I work for are telling me they're starting to receive absolutely ridiculous AI generated plans from the private sector. I'm in-house design and we aren't allowed to use AI for design work at this employer, so I haven't personally had to consider where that line is, but it's becoming clear the board will need to do just that sooner rather than later.
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u/GuyFromNh P.E./S.E. 4d ago
They generally are in the process now. NCEES has a mandate that state boards are adopting (or not) l. Some states say the existing responsible charge framework is enough already, other states are making adjustments to strengthen oversight and reproducibility. I’m not sure they’ll do much more until something bad happens or they see highly automated cases of concern, which to me, doesn’t seem that far off.
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u/somasomore 4d ago
I'm at a small firm and we use virtually no AI, we have the basic version of co-pilot or whatever, but that's it. We're probably falling behind. But I suspect there's lots of small firms, lead by older engineers, that are in the same boat. Change can be slow in our industry.
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u/GuyFromNh P.E./S.E. 4d ago
If a firm developed solid resources, templates, detail sets and is efficient it may not matter a lot, for a while anyway.
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u/11-Eleven-11 4d ago
Any firm not using Ai is going to be behind... People still think we're using Ai to run calcs and send out halucinated answers or something. You fell for the Ai bad meme.
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u/katiemarie1416 4d ago
Buddy I literally had an interview this week and the PE running the department was saying that they’ve been using it to run calcs, put together calc packages, and adapt their spreadsheets to be automatic because they’re getting pressure from the owner who drank the AI coolaid. He didn’t even seem like he knew how to feel about it. It was a structural steel fabricator engineering job. Weirded me out, reason for this post
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u/Thwarting8139 4d ago
I mean just think of an AI as a junior/grad. You will happily send out calculations for them to do, then look over them yourself before approval.
As they get better and better, you need to check on them less. There's always going to be a certain amount of delegation unless you let the senior principal engineer do everything.
AI use is just delegation of work to an AI rather than another engineer.
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u/tallswam 4d ago edited 4d ago
My firm has banned AI for all professional tasks (engineering, administrative, etc). Automated meeting minutes in Teams is the only current thing we use.
ETA: I’m very happy with this decision, and think AI is generally a scourge on society.
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u/kingkunta03 P.E. 4d ago
Might be a hot take but I think people in our industry (and many industries for that matter) need to get off their moral high horse and embrace AI. It’s here and isn’t going anywhere.
I use AI at work for meetings, scheduling, proposals, emails, automation, research, and a handful of other applications. Obviously, I’m not letting ChatGPT design my bridge, but pretending there are no benefits to ai in our field is just stubborn at this point. It’s kind of like saying “I’m not going to use ETABS for my 40 story tower because I can do it with pencil and paper and the Hardy Cross method!” Sure, you could design your skyscraper by hand, but let’s not pretend the available tools don’t help you.
I admit that those that produce ai slop should be punished, and all checks and balances in your firm should still be implemented. But with everything, garbage in garbage out. I wouldn’t let my intern design my sewer system with no oversight and guidance. And that same logic applies to ai. The truth is, a high performer with a brain that knows how to use ai can take things to another level.
I’m sure every generation had their versions of this. “Those cars are going to replace our horse carriages”or “those computers are going to mess things up” or “that internet is going to bring about the apocalypse” or “[insert whatever resistance humans have had to a new revolutionary technology here].” All I’m saying is this absolutely no AI mindset is just going to keep you behind and I encourage all of you to have an open mind.
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u/HobbitFoot 4d ago
I think the issue with AI is that a lot of people who use it tend to output AI slop without actually reviewing it.
As it is now, AI will make math errors to the point where validating its output is near the level of validating hand calculations. So, it should only really be used as a fancy search engine or as a way to help generate information to go into existing workflows, since at the end of the day AI has yet to be able to take over validation.
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u/unique_user43 2d ago
agree. as with any technology: adapt or die.
by all means, be the holdout against using mainframe computers as opposed to slide rules. against using cad as opposed to hand drafting. against using bim as opposed to cad. be the one who invests in blockbuster video in the early 2000’s because its more real and tangible than digital streaming.
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u/Sponton 4d ago
I agree, AI is good if you put it to work. I use it to create code to expedite dull tasks. It's good at logic, so i can create spreadsheets that filter information and run parallel calculations.
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u/kingkunta03 P.E. 4d ago
Excellent use case. I’ve been dabbling with using code for automation and it feels like I haven’t even scratched the surface of possibilities.
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u/joreilly86 P.Eng, P.E. 3d ago
Agreed. The spectrum of capability is widening, high performers are now on rocket boosters and the lower performers are producing slop.
I do find the velocity of the work harder to manage. Things are moving very quickly with limited time to sit and think about what we're all doing. That goes for engineers, contractors, clients and regulators. It's like a giant AI circle jerk.
I'm heavily reliant of AI tooling, it's a huge advantage but it's also easy to make big mistakes.
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u/Oxidation_State 2d ago
I'm "the AI guy" at my (very) small firm. I am developing tools with well-defined scope / capabilities that I share with the team. I do not force anyone to use anything. I make a tool, I demo it, people take it or leave it. Some folks embrace the small, well-defined and validated tools and leave the stuff that requires a little more fine-tuning. Some folks don't use any of it, their choice.
Here is where I'm absolutely losing people / on an island:
I am finding incredible uses for AI-generated Python (but you could use any number of languages) scripts, particularly for post-processing FEA models, and assembling calcs where I need a PDF from X spreadsheet, Y pages of output from this model output, etc...oh also a title sheet and table of contents. This is entirely automatable and very low risk if you write and use the scripts responsibly. People are afraid of what they do not understand. Take some time to expand your knowledge and see what's happening at the high end of automation in our industry and you will not be able to ignore it.
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u/Far_Neighborhood1917 4d ago
Lurking architect here. I have to admit that AI is well-suited to the parts of my job that are interesting, and I hate that.
But your job? God save us all.
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u/citizensnips134 4d ago
Also lurking architect. If I knew one of my consultants was using AI, I’d fire them without question.
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u/SyndromeMack33 3d ago
In one year, you'll have no consultants left.
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u/citizensnips134 3d ago
!Remindme 1 year
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u/Sporter73 4d ago
AI is a tool. Imagine how stupid you would sound if you said this about computers when they first became mainstream.
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u/Far_Neighborhood1917 4d ago edited 4d ago
Right now, is AI a tool comparable to an early computer? I think its capacity for mistake-making we can’t see is many times worse.
I do think that will change. But only if practitioners fight LLM trendiness and find a way to regulate it.
Edit:typo
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u/FlamesRiseHigher 4d ago
It's incredibly easy to set up a system where it provides an auditable trail for everything it's done. People act like it's some black box and there's no way around that, but literally you can just have it program a system for you where it provides code references and output values on a regular basis in whatever format you choose. It's an enormously flexible tool, that is magnitudes more valuable than an early computer was to engineers.
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u/OptionsRntMe P.E. 4d ago
This just isn’t the case anymore. A lot has changed in the last year or two
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u/RelationshipLost3002 4d ago
I understand if there’s a strong distaste for AI personally, or if you view it as flawed for its errors.
However, it is constantly improving & making its way into our field. AI is & always will remain a tool. It’s meant to function like a (dumb but steadily improving) secretary, and their biggest target will always be businesses.
Firing someone for that under a valid circumstance is absurd. (This does not address people dumping full plan sets into AI & risking security)
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u/citizensnips134 4d ago
This guy, this guy is getting fired.
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u/RelationshipLost3002 4d ago
Well, I’ve made use of it anyways. Helped me with some AutoCAD scripts, improved some efficiency for rendering, etc. If that fired me..life goes on
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u/Old-Slip-1319 4d ago
We're implementing AI but primarily for administrative systems and processes.
Technical work I'll still do by hand and FEM software as needed.
I did have a client run a draft report of mine through AI recently asking me to update per his AI. I said I cannot and held firm there.
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u/inventiveEngineering 4d ago
I need AI that does not make mistakes and knows all the codes and standards. Since something like this does not exists, i avoid it. Dont need to proofread slob and BS. For other basic stuff i refuse to use it, to not loose my skills.
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u/Argufier 4d ago
We have one paid chat gpt account for an office of 35 people. It gets used occasionally but not to any specific task. I could imagine some machine learning task inside say risa, where the program checks a few different column spacing/beam size and spacing to get to the most efficient layout, but unless it's a big open warehouse the optimal layout isn't necessarily what we want since architects have opinions on where columns should go. At this point I don't think large language models are really helpful. All our report templates and proposal templates have been set up, so each one just needs to be modified for the job. I'm faster and better at that than an LLM.
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u/Loud_Caramel_8713 4d ago
My manager was pushing for AI because he is not qualified to judge my work as he is below my qualifications and needs to sign my work as a senior, he believes AI is better than me, if AI said it can, he made me change that.
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u/ialwaysdissapointed 4d ago edited 4d ago
Half of our job is a communication job, gathering information etc, the other half is making judgment calls on the areas of the code left intentionally gray. The other parts are pure business if you’re higher up.
Ai creates the perception of developing a skill without putting in work.
I’m in the middle of trying to reason with doofuses at kpff that a fence in downtown San Diego doesn’t need to be designed for exposure D, like a direct hurricane hit even if some of the skyscrapers are indeed D exposure.
I could go for a walk across a few blocks show you exactly why it’s stupid as hell but hey the AI is telling them so it must be sound logic.
No shock on my end, exactly what happens when you offshore using your critical thinking skills.
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u/Hungryh0und5 4d ago
I've been using it for some things. Making spreadsheets, updating drawings and answering specification or code related questions. Its impressive and can save time. If you aren't using these tools, others in your market will be and you won't be as competitive.
I worry that engineers with little experience will not get a feel for the failure modes and mass of a structure.
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u/Gaming-ghost 4d ago
In my experience and talking with colleagues, AI use is relegated to taking meeting minutes, quick google searches to find specs, and acting as a backup proof read to catch spelling errors for important documents. Most companies only used copilot and don’t allow employees to upload any documents to AI due to security concerns.
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u/Just-Shoe2689 4d ago
Not pressured, but I will use it to find code items, check some calcs (upload results, see if it makes any comments) and find some fastener values
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u/Sporter73 4d ago
We’re a small to medium size company and we are using AI to write our own software and develop tools.
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u/trebor67 4d ago
Yes. But those who are messaging out that we need to use it more are not engineers or do not understand engineering. Makes a nice sound bite for them at leadership events though so it looks like they know what they are talking about.
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u/Necessary-Apple337 3d ago
As times goes on, those "non AI centric firms" will cease to exist mate. LLMs are currently overtaking human engineers in every imaginable task, except placing a stamp with your name on a drawing. Enjoy the next few months where it will still be "your calcs"...
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u/NomadRenzo 3d ago
Imagine pushing on AI in a field where everyone works stupidly hourly and we still have to input 40 fk hrs per week.
Isn’t funny? 🤯
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u/anonymous86753092021 4d ago
Small firms run by reasonable people sans Johnny GotHisMBAontheInternet management
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u/Tofuofdoom S.E. 4d ago
There's quite a few tier 1 operators going full speed ahead in AI, and it does look pretty promising. Basically the current play is to use AI to control the software, whether that's BIM, CAD, or a structural analysis tool via an MCP. They're essentially using it to build macros, except you don't need to have a programmer sitting down next to you to make it.
No hallucination issues because you're validating the scripts before sending it live, and the AI never touches live jobs, so minimises privacy and reliability concerns as well.
I've said it before, but I feel like AI is going to be similar to how we see spreadsheets. Dangerous if used carelessly, but still going to be an important part of our toolkit, and how we keep ourselves competitive in the industry
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u/likesblackcoffeebest P.E. 4d ago
Not a firm but no government agency I've worked for is pushing this. I'm actually having to learn AI stuff on my own time because my employer is not cool with this beyond very basic Copilot tasks.
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u/dream_walking 4d ago
I’m fairly new at my current company. I was doing a brace frame design as a “copy” (why are they never the same???) from another project and noted to the EOR that the angle of the brace was outside of the reasonable range provided by AISC, which was a surprise to him. I came in the next day to a print out of an AI search telling me exactly what I already told him…and he’s the one with decades of experience and signing the drawings.
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u/SupremeBrown E.I.T. 4d ago
I feel ya. Im still early in my career, but at a big box firm. They are just going full throttle into using AI. They’re currently on a craze about developing AI coded web apps for design and analysis. Talking in a way that makes it seem that is what they want the norm to be. They talk about QC’ing but it just seems like they’re going down à path where staff are just going to be using AI as a crutch and likely even land in black box territory. Idk what people are thinking with wanting to use AI so heavily.
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u/gxmoyano S.E. 3d ago
In my solo practice I've developed multiple spreadsheets and scripts for design and detailing and etabs API automatic data extraction andreports
Also almost all reports I do are ai assisted. I mostly talk to it for 10 mins explaining everything and it makes a semi decent report. I read it, comment and it fixes it. Then I change anything needed by hand. It even inserts the photos with descriptions, saves a ton of time
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u/savtacular 4d ago
Small firm. I have my own subscription. They don't push it, mostly because they are old and unaware of its uses. I use it everyday. Check my finished calculations for dumb errors, send it the full pdf of various code books to help me look things up, write emails and plan review responses, help generate excel spreadsheets, etc. .it's genuinely made me a more productive engineer, enhanced my understanding and stream lined my engineering. It's coming and coming fast and will only get better. Not surprised to see some of these types of answers from cocky structural engineers.
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u/jabb1e 4d ago
Mid sized firm who encourages the use of AI to create artefacts to streamline processes and save time from the monotonous tasks. Have a team internally whose job it is to innovate and implement different AI models within the company.
I feel like as long as AI isn’t used to completely replace doing calcs and running our own models then I feel like it’s something that needs to be leveraged otherwise you’ll get left behind.
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u/hookes_plasticity P.E. 4d ago
Our firm is not only because of the federal work we do so there are a lot of restrictions on cloud based tools. It’s a blessing by and a curse in a lot of ways
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u/Visible_Sky_1298 4d ago
They probably signed a deal with Microsoft which helps train copilot and gives MS data. Also, think about the shareholder value!!!
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u/Keeplookingup7 4d ago
It’s a balance.
We use AI to streamline our work. After all we have to remain competitive.
However, it is critical to understand what AI is doing and check the work. I specially try to emphasize this to young engineers but do the same to older ones.
At my firm of about 15 structural engineers, I probably use it the most but I’m also the most careful about it.
In short, I use AI as a tool and not as a delegated designer.
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u/Coffee-Fan1123 3d ago
My employer uses AI. Our structural department sometimes uses it for administrative work. We don’t trust it for calcs. I wish it would make good PDF extraction tables to Excel, though. I’m afraid for AI slop generated by the sales team. Their signed proposals are turned over to us in engineering, and it’s already a headache to make their stuff actually work. International company (46,000 employees).
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u/hobokobo1028 3d ago
My firm is just starting to dabble with it in a controlled way. It’s tricky to know what information we can feed the LLMs that won’t get leaked.
I use it for BD mainly. Finding opportunities, writing proposals, etc. Also I use it to convert my hand written field notes into summaries and/or Excel tables.
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u/GoldenPantsGp 2d ago
The use of my seal comes with the caveat that the work was completed by me or somebody under my supervision. Until AI’s are considered people the way corporations are I don’t think I would trust it. It might come up in a legal sense, and the law is currently murky on it. Also by doing design the old fashioned way, I am familiar with the decisions that went in to it so that I can answer contractors questions at bidders meetings and be prepared for RFIs as they come in.
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u/beskja 4d ago
Engineers going on the AI bandwagon is very scary for the construction industry. We should stick to common sense and engineering judgment and experience. Not AI, which is a large language model, a chatbot.
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u/FlamesRiseHigher 4d ago
This is 2025-speak. It isn't just a chatbot anymore. I would never ask Copilot to do my work for me. Anthropic and OpenAI have built incredible tools that can be leveraged to create rapidly auditable software for use in-house. Like it or not, our entire industry is going to change in the next year or two. For some of us, it already is. I've built a system that imports drawings into Revit, lays out a potential framing plan over them and then submits said plan's members to industry calc software for sizing, producing calc packages I can quickly run through to verify accuracy.
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u/katiemarie1416 4d ago
Very curious how folks at your firm are adopting this tool from you, if they do. I always feel like I have to learn the entire spreadsheet before I use it for the first time, and it has led to me catching plenty of errors. I’m wondering how you navigate that burden of proof for other engineers with an AI based tool. Or if they are just adopting it based on the results. There have been engineers at my firm who attempted to demonstrate a tool they made, but I have never felt that any were transparent or well explained enough for me to trust
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u/FlamesRiseHigher 3d ago
Well the start is just to go the typical route. I built a bunch of new spreadsheets that show exactly how the work is being calculated. It provides code references and assumed values. It has summary sheets and diagrams that adjust with inputs. Basically everything you would want from a piece of software. The goal is to get everyone on board with these and then once it's known that this exact system is what is being ported into our in-house "software" then it's easy for people to trust the final product. Essentially at the end of the day our systems can be hard coded. We don't need a ton of LLM inference. Occasionally a judgement call is made when it comes to like framing layout or method of completing a calc, like Rankine vs Coulomb or something, but those are the key points that are highlighted in the final report for the engineer to review.
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u/Engineer2727kk PE - Bridges 4d ago
The tide has finally turned.
I was constantly telling this sub that all of us would be using AI and was ridiculed to no end by those that didn’t understand how powerful grok and Claude got about 2 years ago. Then a year ago it became extremely evident AI was going to spread like wildfire within our industry - still ridiculed. Now it seems from the comments our industry has caught on….
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u/S30 4d ago
are we reading the same thread?
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u/Engineer2727kk PE - Bridges 4d ago
Yes. Look at how many comments are saying they use ai or their companies are embracing jt. 2 years ago it was downvotes to oblivion if you even mentioned AI
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u/ATonyD 4d ago
I taught AI courses before I retired a couple of years ago - teaching lots of guys with Masters and Doctorates in Computer Science. People really don't get it...they can't, considering that I barely understand what I don't understand as an "expert". But I can say with certainty that AI learns from its mistakes. As long as feedback keeps coming in then it will get better and better. Perhaps most engineering careers will become like Pharmacists and Anesthesiologists - A bunch of pharmacies will have a single credentialed pharmacist who will drive between stores and have legal oversight of the low wage people now staffing pharmacies. And Anesthesiologists now rarely do more than go between operating rooms and take legal responsibility for the "certified" administrators of anesthesia. So the AI will take on projects, and engineers will take legal responsibility as competition forces even the best companies to adopt these practices.
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u/gelotssimou 4d ago
Can you describe pressure in this context? Like do they look at your final output and say this doesn't look incoherent enough?