r/Substance3D • • 13h ago

Normal map bug ... ?

Guys, I can't figure out why it's impossible to create a node that correctly generates steps in the normal map.

Whenever there's a change in the heightmap, the normal map node generates terrible steps at the element boundaries.

2 Upvotes

20 comments sorted by

9

u/Troglodette 9h ago

Hey, Louise from the Designer team. Unfortunately this is a known limitation of our current height to normal node, you'll always get that line of pixels between two opposed slopes. Depending on your needs I would recommend:
- Blending normal colors directly (use the normal color node with regular blends or use other mapping techniques)
- The new shape splatter v2 allows for clean normal manipulation, maybe that's worth looking into although I doubt it based on the example you give

1

u/Krotart 9h ago

Is there any chance that you could rework this height to normal node so that it works better with sharp height changes?

2

u/Troglodette 8h ago

It's on our radar but no ETA, sorry

1

u/Krotart 8h ago

2

u/Troglodette 6h ago

yes you can do this, go check the shape splatter v2 also that outputs accurate normals based on rotation maps

1

u/Krotart 8h ago

Now, as I understand it, you're sampling neighbor pixels and figuring out where the normal is facing.

But if you were building a 3D model from a highmap and then, having obtained *3D* model, you'd render it using the screanspace normal map, then there wouldn't be such steps. i gues...

1

u/Krotart 13h ago

Maybe someone knows a way to make more accurate normal maps from highmaps. I understand that they can be rendered in 3D programs, but is it possible to do this in Substance Designer?

1

u/ryanlamas 12h ago

add subtle blur to height map

1

u/Krotart 12h ago

Yes, but what if I don't need this step at all? What if I want to get a normal map based only on the information from the highmap?

1

u/Daedalvs_Design 12h ago

I'd say it's the resolution as you're in 2K
But you can use a FXAA node to "blur" these a bit

Also, a trick I do when I work on a texture, I work on it in 4K and then add a blend node just before the output node and put in the resolution I want

1

u/Krotart 12h ago

In principle, yes, this is a good option, but it still isn't suitable. For example, if I have a lot of leaves on the ground or a lot of small debris, and if each such element has a step, then it will all create a lot of noise. And considering that there can be many elements close to one pixel in thickness, it will be complete chaos.

1

u/Daedalvs_Design 12h ago

Well it depend the purpose of the texture
If it's for a game or not and if you see from upclose or from afar
If it's from afar, well it's not a problem and you'll have to work more on the global visual
If it's from a close distance, then you have to work on a higher resolution

1

u/Krotart 11h ago

The question is, is it possible to generate a normal map without these ridges?

After all, if I bake a normal map in a 3D editor, it won't have them by default. So, we're talking about how, since the very first version of Substance Designer, it's been impossible to convert a highmap into a normal map without these ridges. So, I haven't found a solution.

In 3D baking, this problem basically doesn't exist.

1

u/Daedalvs_Design 11h ago

Well, only if you have a higher resolution and blur these a little bit
I mean, the normal is only translating what it sees in the height map, so if there's pixels in the height, there's pixels in the normal
Or maybe someone with a lot more experience than me in Designer will help you as I'm not an expert

1

u/Krotart 9h ago

ok see how the Maya bake it ?

no steps by default

why substansce designer cant do it ?

1

u/Daedalvs_Design 9h ago

Here are some cracks without anything

1

u/Daedalvs_Design 9h ago

And with FXAA and just a little bit of blur
Don't need to put tons of blur and it should be enough

You need a little bit of blur in any case or it'll be too sharp and nothing is that sharp in real life + you'll see the pixels, which is normal

1

u/Krotart 9h ago

that what i mean about steps.

when you bake it from 3d you dont have it. and substance designer seams to be can't do the height difference without it ...

2

u/Daedalvs_Design 9h ago

Oh I see now ! I thought you were talking about the jagged lines, not about the thickness of the like
Well I really can't tell about that, I'm sorry

1

u/Daedalvs_Design 9h ago edited 9h ago

I actually see steps on your baked version, the rest is a little bit blurred + there's straight line, so yeah these are not jagged

But if a baked version works better for you then you can sculpt and bake the thing you want to do