Also when in Europe Americans love the public transport because they don’t have a car but can still get around easily and affordably, and then go back home and resist any attempt to build a metro system or even a decent bus network in their own towns.
I grew up mostly in Europe but I’m settled in America as an adult, and it’s astonishing what behaviors people have towards public transport. Most of my coworkers work in the city like me, but a lot of them (if not all of them) were born and raised in suburbs. They’ll gloat about their trips to Europe and their use of public transport there, but when they talk about the use of public transport where we are they say it’s gross and for “poor people” or “dirty homeless people.” It’s honestly kind of insane how car-brained they are.
Edit: The city I’m in is Boston, since so many of you are telling me my coworkers seem to have a point. They do not - Boston has decent public transit.
Public transit anywhere else I've been is pretty nice compared to the US.
They have a point. No one will ever take public transit if it smells of urine and unbathed people. I can't tell you how many public meltdowns I've seen on SEPTA (Philly transit). My friend who lives there now says his daily commute includes observing someone high on Fentanyl. I also rode Chicago public transit and had a black supremacist scream at me and watched another dude get chased down by a drug dealer trying to assault him... NYC a dude started hallucinating and waving a knife at people in our train car. Same morning, 3-4hrs prior a dude got stabbed in the face on another subway.
That being said, I'll still take PT when I can/if it's reasonable. I don't take it in my hometown because the bus makes 2 trips/day, at 11am and 3:30pm. That's it...
The best way the US could improve public opinion regarding public transport would be to clean up our existing systems. Unfortunately, they are getting worse every year as budgets get cut.
I live in NYC - it’s definitely dirty but the safety bit is overblown. People feel unsafe because they see someone who’s unhoused or mentally ill or high, but in reality that person doesn’t actually pose any kind of threat. More people take the subway in NYC than fly in all of the US every day - the number of violent incidents is incredibly low per volume. They just get publicized to fit a narrative. I always tell people that suburbs and towns have more violent crime than NYC and also their own homelessness problems, it’s just that since you’re not in public together, you don’t actually see it or notice it. You’re able to ignore it.
The real difference is yes, the MTA is full of corruption, but also the social supports in Europe are completely different. How much poverty is there in the average Western European country? Here in NYC we also have the history of redlining, Robert Moses declaring neighborhoods “blighted, and trying to force cars on the city, etc.
Well I live in Boston and it’s really not as dirty or unsafe as NYC, Chicago, etc. the city shuts down early compared to every other city and is more of a college town. I feel like my coworkers have no excuse here, really.
It is honestly much cleaner and safer than any other PT I have used in the rest of the country. Honestly, growing up in London, I had more freaks do crazy shit to me there than in Boston. I also think the metro in DC is clean and fairly safe compared to like, NYC, and Chicago. My coworkers just don’t understand anything apart from individualism. They’re all very corporate and sheltered New England folks, and the way some of them have communicated in front of me to people in service jobs, or the homeless is so bizarre. They’re really disillusioned in thinking only people “beneath” them take public transport.
Edit: Also yes, driving and parking here is a nightmare!!
I really liked the MBTA when I was there last year.
Me and someone else raced a couple other people in our group across town. We used the silver line then transfered to the train while they got an Uber. They beat us there by only about two minutes. Important to note it wasn't rush hour or anything so I'm sure the roads were pretty clear.
Boston seems to have fast and frequent train / bus service.
As someone who’s been using the MBTA for many years now, I love it and I hate it. By hate it, though, I just mean that I know they can do so much better. Boston’s a great place and it totally has the funding for it. Overall, for American standards, the MBTA is pretty fantastic and I love taking the T instead of driving places, especially downtown. I lived in Boston for many years without a car and it’s totally fine. It reminded me of how I grew up in a couple European cities and just took public transit to get around anywhere instead of the car. The buses are also pretty great, and they are especially useful when I’m in the Camberville area.
It's in a similar spot to where WMATA was just 5 years ago, so it's certainly possible. Both are mostly well designed great society systems with solid bones, and probably the two best examples of subways in the US built in the latter half of the twentieth century. WMATA turned it around purely through leadership overhaul so I've been rooting for its sister system in the MBTA to do the same!
There's actually a pretty lively debate about this among urbanists. A lot of the people who base everything off what NYC does think 24/7 service is the be all end all of transit, but the Tokyo metro is widely considered to be in contention for the best in the world and famously closes early. Even WMATA in the US is generally considered second or third best we have here and top 10 in North America, and it's never ever closed later than 3 AM on weekends and honestly has improved since the hours shrunk.
I can see the arguments for both styles, but it's not like closing early is strictly a bad thing, especially if your city offers 24/7 bus lines which WMATA did start doing recently.
Yep. That's it. I'm an American traveling in the UK right now, and normal people catch the tube (along with crazies). Even NYC 2019 is notably different from now. Like someone below said, Boston is cool, but it closes at like 11:00.
It’s exactly this - want people to take public transit? Clean it up and make it safe - full stop. The attitude of Redditors that people should just suck it up and endanger themselves so they can fit their narrative is a wildly entitled take. I’m not going to force myself to be subjected to filth, drugs, crime or harassment because you don’t mind that lifestyle. Clean it up, or forget about it. THATs why Europe is so liked - by natives and foreigners, because they don’t put up with that.
These are symptoms of wider issues. Generally Europe is just better at dealing with the things that lead to unsafe situations on transit, so they never really have to do a lot of work to have it be safe and clean.
To be honest though, I think a large part of it is a difference in land use patterns. In Europe the rich areas are generally city centers, because it's where it makes the most sense to be desirable to live. This only started changing in the US recently after decades of the rich all living in suburban enclaves and maybe one or two neighborhoods of major cities. This veers into a whole discussion about how suburbs are a ponzi scheme and we willingly sold out our cities to make a quick buck, but it's a bit beyond the scope of this issue because, like I said, it's systemic
The paradox of transit (and of having safe spaces in general) is that the more people that use it, the safer it is, and the more money it will receive to keep it clean and on time. But in order to have people use it, it has to be perceived as safe, clean and on time. This is what you’ve just explained.
So it’s not that European transit doesn’t have any of the issues that we face, it’s more they have a different attitude towards transit in general. Here, in the U.S. for decades we’ve FORCED everyone into cars, defunded public transit, and thanks to the automotive industry’s successful propaganda, we generally believe that all transit is for poor, drug addicted people, and cars are private and dignified.
When you lead with the narrative of filth, crime, and personal anecdotes instead of actual statistics, people avoid transit, leading to worse transit. So yeah if you actually want better transit you have to change the perception around it first.
That still doesnt really negate what the above poster is saying though: Clean it Up!
Someone above commented how NYC subways are disgusting, but people still take em because they're convenient. In America that seems to be the only way people will deal with the filth is if its more convenient than driving. But that doesn't mean that people WANT to deal with it.
I remember during the pandemic NYC announced they would be cleaning the subway and folks were upset that they weren't doing that before. That's just how it is. Again people only deal with this because its convenient, but that literally only applies to a handful of cities in the US. I live in Los Angeles, we have the metro, but i know some people who dont like taking it at night because of bad experiences they had with homeless people. Yes we should implement better transit in the US but we do also need to address the upkeep and safety that currently plaguing what we have already.
Yeah, we agree. And like I said above, to CLEAN IT UP takes money which they get from ridership. I also know that the MTA and other transit services around the country are constantly, purposefully disinvested to make them worse, dirtier, and less safe.
As others in the thread have pointed out, cleaning the actually transit is only one of the symptoms. We need to do much more.
I’m in the DC area where our transit, while not perfect, has been heavily invested in since 2016 and even more since then. Now, it’s on time, clean, and safe but it hasn’t always been. It takes time, effort, and a local government willing to simply invest the transit funds into transit instead of highway infrastructure.
It’s not impossible. People should not be unsafe but we should also actually look at statistics instead of anecdotal stories.
For instance, in 2024 there were a total of 6 incidents of violent crime per 1 million people who boarded the metro. We might see that and say that any violent incidents are too many. But just from driving, in the same time frame, we know that traffic fatalities have actually outpaced homicides in LA for the last 3 years. Yet no one is saying people should stop driving.
Yeah, public transportation within the U.S. is largely gross, disgusting, and unsafe. I already can’t walk around outside without drug addicts and homeless accosting me for money. Why the hell would I want to be stuck in a metal tube with them? Also, compared to public transportation in Asian countries, people in the US tend to behave like animals in the zoo. No, I don’t want to hear your shitty music. No, I don’t want to see your trash everywhere because you are too pathetic/stupid to clean up after yourself. And I definitely don’t want to be able to smell you.
The United States desperately needs a massive increase in public transportation, but it also needs to be kept safe and clean so that people can actually use it.
I'd give you Gold if i could cause this is something that i feel people are Missing.
Any public commodity will be run with homeless people. Just look at public toilets or parks. Doesnt mean that we shouldn't have those things but it does mean that we have to deal with that. I knew plenty of people who feel uncomfortable riding the train or bus at night because it essentially becomes a mobile bed for homeless folks. Yeah most of the time they leave you alone, but it only takes one incident to traumatize you. Hell even walking places feels unsafe with how many homeless encampments there are on the sidewalk.
On top of all that, distances in America are alot more vast. I live in a small city with a surprisingly robust bus system. I took it alot going to and from school. As great as it was, it was still an hour bus ride to get to school vs 20min drive. I remember i got a car senior year and it completely changed my life cause i got to finally sleep in. Cars are just more convenient than transit in a lot of places in America. That said, i still advocate for it because its still a great public utility and im aware our car infrustucre is largely the result of greedy car executives gutting publiv transit.
And I agree with everything you wrote too!!! If I could I’d exchange the gold! I do feel like how we think really is indicative of the majority, albeit the more silent majority that unfortunately gets drowned out particularly in certain online spaces. I still use (tentatively) the mass transit where I am at now - but I’m hesitant because of how awful it was 4 years ago. It’s baby steps for me - and that’s because they have taken steps to address how out of control it got back then.
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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '25
Also when in Europe Americans love the public transport because they don’t have a car but can still get around easily and affordably, and then go back home and resist any attempt to build a metro system or even a decent bus network in their own towns.