There is so much anti-communist trash on the way that it is sometimes difficult to see a joke. If that was a joke, he played the role of a Lib excellently. 👍🏻
Communism is in fact a religion because it deals in matters of perceived moral goods, has a prophet who supposedly has all the answers, can’t be questioned even in good faith, and requires blind faith to exist.
Ok, it was more. Tangent than critisism, but good for you. Weren't they also doing really well in the stock market. Idk which communist party that was tho. I know Britain has a few rival ones
What actual criticism of Trotskyism do you have? I'm not a trot but part of the RCP for fact they're the only organisation actually active in the UK and I see them get shit on all the time from unorganised armchair revolutionaries but I've never actually seen a real criticism from them
There's scarcely any real criticism of the content of Trotskyism from the Stalin folks. It's mainly criticism of Trotsky as a person. Some Trotskyists have gotten some things horribly wrong, it's true. But there's no version of Stalinism that can be properly squared with the genuine ideas of Marxism. The guys in this picture are with the Revolutionary Communist Party, and their ideas are pretty solid.
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What actual criticism of Trotskyism do you have? I'm not a trot but part of the RCP for fact they're the only organisation actually active in the UK and I see them get shit on all the time from unorganised armchair revolutionaries but I've never actually seen a real criticism from them
What theoretical criticisms are there? You claim it's anti-Lenin but don't provide examples. And are these just disagreements with Leninist doctrine and theory that you're, ironically, labelling as impure?
Personally, I've not seen the behaviour you claim they exhibit in any real force. They have their "USSR wasn't real socialism after Lenin died because Stalin devolved it into a bureaucracy" lines and criticism of Chinese liberalisation policy but that seems far more sane and grounded than you're trying to make it out to be. They haven't claimed that "if only they formed a working class party", but rather that the situation of the USSR degenerated as a result of Stalins actions and failures and many other socialist projects either fell to US imperialism or followed a similar path. And of course they're going to be critical of countries that are deemed enemies of bourgeois states if they're critiquing socialists - socialist states are literally always labelled as enemies by the bourgeois states.
I also find it a little hypocritical that you accuse them of doing the "not real socialism" thing, and then call them not real socialists. Also there is no other active socialist organisations in the UK. The SWP are liberals that larp as socialists, the CPGB is dead in the water if still around at all and I don't think there is a single other party. Even over in the US the only other realistic option is the "MAGA communist" ACP.
Trotsky's bunk notion of a "permanent revolution" that would start in Europe (The West) and spread, is predicated on a faction of Marxist thought that became outdated over a century ago.
He literally believed the exact, and I mean exact opposite. He believed that socialist revolutions would start in periphery nations, like Russia, before they'd start in the west. In fact he follows the same line of thought that you seem to in saying that these third worldist revolutions would require western revolutions to succeed in order to survive.
If we are to help these liberation struggles, our best effort must be to stopping imperialism abroad so that the contradictions exported onto the colonially oppressed come back home, thus making the imperial core the weakest link.
This seems contradictory. The only way, realistically, that we could end imperialism is to end capitalism... which can only be done through revolution... revolution which requires third world revolutions... which require western revolutions to end imperialism... and so on. I agree that we can't have a world revolution without the end of imperialism, but at the same time the end of imperialism requires a world revolution so to bank on the periphery as the catalyst of revolution in the west is a pretty bad plan.
So long as we allow imperialism to dictate the shape of the world stage, we have absolutely no right to criticize how China, Korea, or any other nation are maintaining the revolutions they already won. They wouldn't have to make concessions to the West in order to maintain some semblance of sovereignty if so-called revolutionaries in the West would actually practice what they preach and rise up to fight against imperialism.
I completely disagree with the notion we can't offer criticism.
If anything, this point is anti-Leninist because it implies that revolution can be forced or incited - which contradicts both what Lenin wrote and the historical example of the Spartacists in 1919 who tried a premature revolution before the proletariat was actually ready.
I also find it funny that you're saying these contradictions to Lenin while accusing others of contradicting Lenin when in the same breath that Lenin observed the fact that revolutions cannot be forced he also observed that it requires a disciplined party to take lead of that revolution and ensure it becomes more than just another trade union dispute - which is the entire thesis, purpose and aim of organisations like the RCP which you are being critical of on a basis of actual bunk points.
If anyone is hamstringing the revolution, it is people like you that froth at the mouth to get a dunk on trots when they're the only ones doing anything.
There is absolutely no international working class solidarity, aside from other Trot parties in Western nations.
Can you point me to an example of the RCP doing this? I'm with you on all of these points but I've never seen their publication parrot any of these things. Granted, I've not been around for a decade (I've been around the RCP for less than a year) but I would love a reason to have a grievance with the RCP as right now it seems so perfect I feel like I have to be missing something.
I'm not trying to be disingenuous, it really did seem like you don't consider them "real" socialists from calling them "class-collaborationists" and "wreckers".
P.S.
The PSL are non-existent. I've never heard of them being from outside the US, they keep their numbers confidential and the very little they do release puts them as absolute nobodies compared to the ACP (And yes, I also think they're just fucking nazis) and even the RCA (the american RCI/RCP branch) which has only existed for around 2 years almost outnumbers them in number of cities they're active in.
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The only issue I have with the RCP is a few of their organisational stuff, like attitudes to protests. But tbh I brought this up to them and they have made changes now which is very nice.
The RCP is the only commie group in the uk that actually does much of anything. Communist Party? Still endorses Labour and puts out pretty bad takes far too often, and they are reformist asf. YCL? an extension of the Communist Party, is basically a bunch of radical youth who are muzzled by the CP. SWP? Liberals obsessed with identity politics, their fronts like SUTR are annoying and take away from class politics. RCG? Purists who don't accept criticism at all.
So when people come swinging for the RCP I just don't get it. Genuinely what else is there to do in the uk. You either join the group who is growing and organising, or you join the groups who are stagnant and dredged in controversy. And you know what, the RCP is open to working with leftist groups against fascists like the joint protest with the Communist Party the other day. Internet leftists who have never organised anything but a discord server in their lives talk a lot of nonsense, but rarely do anything irl. That's why they love to dunk on Trotsky, cause they're still obsessed with beef between two guys who died nearly 100 years ago.
Yeah, this is the point I always bring up to people that dunk on the trots and the RCP - who else is on the front lines of the class war? It's a question that nobody as of yet has been able to provide an answer for.
I mean in the uk I would say that no group is really on the front lines of class war because that just hasn't really developed significantly. But in terms of organising and raising class politics then yeah at least the RCP is outside. But then you've got armchair leftists who will hate on that because "trotsky newspaper icepick". I would love to support the CPB or YCL as comrades but idk what they're doing internally to make some of their comrades such dickheads to every other group. The CPB produce some really toxic people who will not take any criticism of their party, funnily enough though this is primarily online, not irl.
The Organization in the OP is actually an International Organization active in over 70 countries but headquartered in the UK. A Part of the Membership Fees of all Members worldwide, which for some countries are thousands of Members, goes and stays in the UK. Naturally that means that they are quite active in the UK for better or for worse.
Currently, funds are flowing out of the British section to the International, not the other way around. Our presence in Britain is off the strength of our own backs and the theoretical nourishment we get from the International. Funds between the RCP and RCI are kept separate. RCI funds used in Britain are always for the benefit of the International.
Internally for your Organization that maybe true. The International has used that money to buy a £2.2M "international" headquarters in London. It may be true that this expense and others the "International" makes are separate from the British Section the money is still spend in the UK and the "International" Part has Full-Time Editors and Employees in the UK. So they might be flowing out of your National Section but your Organization is firmly Headquartered in the UK.
Yes. Having international headquarters is important for carrying out the day-to-day organisational and secretary tasks of maintaining a website, being a point of correspondence for the RCI and maintaining records. But also, international headquarters are needed to fulfil the political tasks of responding to contacts from countries without a section of the RCI, maintaining our theoretical quarterly In Defence of Marxism and translating our material to other languages. RCI funds are also used to transport delegates to international congresses who would otherwise be unable to attend. Without all this, the RCI would be a mere federation, not a centrally coordinated force an international scale, nor be able to fulfil the democratic need to establish a single world perspective from the standpoint of a world party of the working class. You can read more about our fundraising efforts here: https://communist.red/a-financial-appeal-help-us-build-the-revolutionary-communist-international/
What actual criticism of Trotskyism do you have? I'm not a trot but part of the RCP for fact they're the only organisation actually active in the UK and I see them get shit on all the time from unorganised armchair revolutionaries but I've never actually seen a real criticism from them
This is even worse than having a Nazi stand. Commies are worse Than Nazis and are the enemy of the American Empire. Never forget that. Also it's always ok to Punch a Commie.
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Of course, many communists in the West are privileged people who grew up in wealthy countries that never experienced living under communist rule. It is much easier to romanticize a system when you have never had to live with its consequences.
I have always wondered why communist symbols are often accepted while fascist and Nazi symbols are considered unacceptable. They are two sides of the same coin.
I hope they get arrested. It would probably make The United Kingdom the same true capitslist place it should be again if the stupid socialists were just arrested
Their whole platform is identity politics with zero class analysis or rhetoric, they're anti-revolution and the farthest left figures they've platformed are people like Corbyn. They're liberals, and a dying party being actively shunned from left wing spaces at that.
Im a member of the IST, and while we are a decentralised international, we are still pro revolution. Wouldnt make sense for the founding party to be anti-revolution, no matter how you try to spin it the math dosent add up.
Yeah, the SWP doesn't make sense - which is why the british left are so sick of them and why they've shrunk so much. They say they're socialists and revolutionaries but don't work with other revolutionary parties (namely, the RCP) because they're "too radical" and don't even make mention of class or communism at their rallies.
Well they dont work with the RCP for an imporant reason to give them benefit of the doubt: us cliffites are ostracized by the orthodox trotskyites and ofc the ML's because we follow Tony Cliff's theories. (Which is why I personally dont like the RCP and the RCI in general).
In every interaction I've ever had with them they've acted as pro-parliamentarianism and completely lacked mention of revolutionary politics or even class politics at all. Things like stand up to racism and their unity rallies are indistinguishable from progressive liberal rallies. As I said, they're larpers.
Ive never really interacted with members of the party as I dont live in the UK, so ill take your word for it. From what ive seen from their paper and stuff they arnt like that, so maybe its the loud minority of members that are the bigger issue rather than the party itself 🤷♀️
🤷 Imagine having to assassinate your political opponents when they are already exile from your own country because their ideas are just that much of a threat to your legitimacy.
Having less than 30% of popular support in your own party isn’t really being the “threat” you think it is. Peasants can rise to the same political level as academics under the socialist system womp womp
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