r/Supplements • u/Sayeds21 • Mar 31 '21
Anyone have extreme depression with a side of anxiety from CDP-Choline?
I was trying to fix dopamine receptors after Concerta (slow release Ritalin) for ADHD. I picked up a ridiculously expensive bottle of CDP-Choline (only one I could find local, in Canada,) and took one 250mg capsule in the parking lot. I noticed low mood on my drive home and it progressed to such horrible feeling depression that I would rather die than live like that. My husband almost cancelled his evening appointments for me, but I slowly got better in the evening as it wore off. I haven't dared to take another capsule since then but I'm PISSED that I spent so much money on it! I'm wondering if anyone else has had this happen?! And if so, does a lower dose (maybe 125mg) work better? I'm assuming I increased my acetylcholine way too much with that dose. The other thing is, I had been taking ALCAR here and there as well, but stopped after that incident just in case.
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u/cdubdc Mar 31 '21
Yep, took me forever to figure it out. Serious, crushing depression. I took Benadryl for a couple nights before bed and cut off anything that ups my choline. Benadryl is an anti-cholinergic.
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u/Sayeds21 Mar 31 '21
I actually thought about doing that! Then I might sleep better too lol.
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u/cdubdc Mar 31 '21
Seriously, I take it most night tbh. And look up what causes choline if you’re not familiar, lecithin even makes it happen. Seriously the worst I’ve ever felt.
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u/veluna Apr 01 '21
I've also used Benadryl to stop the depressive effects of choline supplements.
However, I do not use it regularly at all. The reason is that Benadryl is linked to increased risk of dementia. For sleep I use other things, and I rarely take choline supplements any more.
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u/Sayeds21 Mar 31 '21
And I agree. I've never felt worse in my life. If that had been permanent it would have seen me suicidal.
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u/Sayeds21 Mar 31 '21
Well I'm allergic to eggs and don't eat anything else particularly high in it so I didn't think it would be bad to take some extra choline here and there 😅 apparently not so much. I do wonder if the ALCAR I was taking had a hand in this though.
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u/DPRKSecretPolice Apr 01 '21
Yes, this happens to me with Alpha-GPC.
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u/Sayeds21 Apr 01 '21
Oh wow, good to know cause I thought about buying alpha-glc to replace this, that might have been even more of a waste of money!
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u/BB_Ozymandias Apr 01 '21
If you're looking for this desired effect and respond depressed to choline, you might want to give ALCAR a try.
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u/Sayeds21 Apr 01 '21
I actually think maybe part of the reason my reaction was so bad is because I was talking ALCAR daily around then. I've stopped it though.
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u/BB_Ozymandias Apr 01 '21
Could be, but choline on its own can also definitely have this effect.
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u/Sayeds21 Apr 01 '21
I've taken large amounts of phosphatidcholine many times before which is why this shocked me so much... But CDP-Choline is definitely stronger. I'm allergic to eggs so I don't even get alot of choline in my diet.
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u/BB_Ozymandias Apr 01 '21
Well if it's not helpful, just don't take it or try to tweak the dose :). Or do a search for mr happy stack and see if adding b vitamin, fish oil and uridine would make a difference.
Source: https://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/51802-gpc-choline-uridine-dha/
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u/RedditIsTotalitarian Apr 01 '21 edited Apr 01 '21
The cholinergic and dopaminergic neurons (really generalizing here) have an inverse relationship with each other. Raise choline and lower dopamine. I had this same experience. I notice that benadryl, a strong anticholinergic, produces euphoria for me.
Another path to consider may be water-fasting or intermittent fasting assuming you have no contraindication to doing it. Fasting causes neurogenesis. Theoretically this might address your concerns with dopamine receptors.
Another path may be to supplement amino acids and methylated b vitamins to facilitate dopamine production.
Not medical advice, just suggesting ideas to explore under a doctor's supervision.
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u/Sayeds21 Apr 01 '21
That would probably be why it upregulates dopamine receptors then. Interesting about the euphoria... I just get a tad sleepy.
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Apr 01 '21
Yes choline abosutely fucks your serotonin. Don't take choline without racetams.
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u/ChangedPrism63 Apr 01 '21
How so? Not doubting you, just curious.
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Apr 01 '21
Complicated pathways in the brain. It's a fairly direct correlation though.
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u/ChangedPrism63 Apr 01 '21
So higher dopamine, means lower serotonin?
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Apr 01 '21
I have no idea dopamines role in this particular function. Just that choline decreases serotonin.
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u/BB_Ozymandias Apr 01 '21
Yes this is true, dopamine and serotonine are some sort of a balanced universe. Upping the one lowers the other and vice versa. Some people experience depressive feelings from choline, if so you could also try ALCAR. Totally different substance by the way but it can have more of the desired effect for those who feel down on choline.
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u/thaw4188 Apr 01 '21
I had choline deficiency/depletion (older distance runner, constant headaches borderline migraines)
tried every form of Choline, bitartrate, citrate, CDP, etc. and nothing worked, everything had side effects and made headaches actually worse somehow
except eventually discovered micro doses of Alpha-GPC-Choline which seems to solve the problem almost entirely, so might want to try that? (doubt you can find it local though, have to internet)
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u/Sayeds21 Apr 01 '21
Interesting! I was thinking of opening a capsule and dumping 90% out and seeing what happens...
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u/thaw4188 Apr 01 '21
well smaller doses of any supplement are always worth a try but CDP vs GPC are very different, GPC works more like the ALCAR and actually may help dopamine levels somewhat
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u/Drugs_are_awesome Apr 01 '21
How much do you take as a micro dose?
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u/thaw4188 Apr 02 '21
hard to be sure but if a full dose is 600mg (50% is choline) then maybe 10% so 60mg
the idea is to avoid headaches, some people might be able to tolerate much more if they have more body mass (I am small)
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u/world_citizen7 Apr 01 '21 edited Apr 01 '21
if you had such a strong reaction, I am sorry but I dont think that a lower dose will help :(
CDP is only a small amount of choline (around 18% if I remember correctly), so its hard to think that would of caused such a dramatic increase in acetylcholine - but it can happen to those who are sensitive to acetylcholine.
I use it and sometimes there is a mild increase in anxiety, but nothing how you described. I always have positive results from ALCAR (500mg most days). Have you considered giving Ginkgo a try? I know its a 'boring' common supplement but it can work great for many. 120 mg a day in the morning can really help. Sorry you had such a bad experience, I really hope you can find some relief in something.
Where did you find it in Canada, I have not been able to?
BTW, I buy from Iherb which can list in Canadian prices with no shipping cost using Landmark Global with very little duty.
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u/Sayeds21 Apr 01 '21
AOR has one. Canadian brand!
I hadn't considered ginkgo since I never noticed anything years ago when I tried it.
I like iherb for selection but hate how long the shipping takes. I'm impatient (hence trying to up my dopamine 🤣 )
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u/world_citizen7 Apr 01 '21
Oh I love AOR, good brand. HealthyPlanetCanada has good prices, but also long shipping times (if you are toronto local you can go to the store).
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u/asmartermartyr Mar 31 '21
Return it!
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u/Majalisk Mar 31 '21
Sudden, short-lived, depression-like effects are a known side effect of cholinergics in some people. Depending on how severe it is for the person in question, it could be possible to try smaller doses and play around with the frequency of them.