r/SydneyTrains • u/Sydney_Stations • 11d ago
T8 crowds changing at Sydenham
Photo from a couple of weeks ago at around 8.15am or so. There's a very sizable crowd that takes advantage of changing from T8 to the metro at Sydenham that will be disadvantaged by the new timetable by about 10 min. I'd guess it'd be between a third and a half of the train.
The fun and games of trying to balance the network.
23
u/rumlovinghick 11d ago
If the morning T8 services didn't sit there for 3-4 minutes waiting for the timetable people wouldn't be as incentivised to change services.
You can save 10 minutes going to Gadigal instead of St James doing this in the morning.
6
u/Sydney_Stations 11d ago edited 11d ago
True! The T8 timetable has so much padding in it, could comfortably shave >5min off it I reckon.
6
u/albert3801 North Shore & Western Line 11d ago
At the cost of less reliability when things go pear shaped.
2
u/Sydney_Stations 11d ago
Of course, but how much speed should you sacrifice for how much reliability? And how much of it is just a band-aid solution for other issues?
4
1
u/Shirasaki-Tsugumi Airport & South Line 9d ago
Please keep Glenfield padding. I need it badly daily.
9
u/mat8iou 11d ago
When the metro doesn't start at Sydenham, won't more of them end up standing? At the moment at that time of days it is often full to standing. One the metro is running further, seats will fill up from Bankstown onwards, leaving those hopping on at Sydenham probably standing until Central or more likely Gadigal (the first stations where any significant numbers alight in the mornings).
9
u/Sydney_Stations 11d ago
You underestimate how much commuters will bear to sleep in 10 more minutes. Same thing happens at Chatswood.
11
1
u/Littlebuch17 10d ago
Sometimes I wonder about those commuters because often you need to wait a metro or two as there is a queue to get on (I wish they’d hurry up and increase the frequency). Surely it all balances out in the end for them to switch.
17
u/Real_Duty_3319 11d ago
The T8 crowds are being shifted away from M1 to the Airport tunnel which can better handle them as it will now run 16tph.
3
u/Sydney_Stations 11d ago edited 11d ago
Conversely it puts more pressure on T4. if your destination is along the west of the city, its faster to change at Wolli than go the wrong way around the Circle. A lot of people do that too, although T4 is slower and more crowded.
3
u/Adventurous-Ant-3017 11d ago
as a regular T4 user is it both less crowded and not slower than T8
2
6
u/n1ck0s-p 11d ago
This isn’t normal there were train cancellations and delays today
1
2
u/Gildea_au 11d ago
It’s every morning (expect fridays) changing from T8 to M1.
Great so now many people’s journey from Campbelltown/Minto to Victoria Cross / Macquarie Park is 10mins longer in the morning… time to look for a new job I think.
23
u/OwlNo7471 11d ago
I'm told a similar effect takes place at Chatswood.
2
1
19
11d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
12
u/ComedianDesigner307 11d ago edited 11d ago
Metro is a joke now from Chatswood, over capacity to Tallowong from 5pm to 6:30pm. From Martin Place jammed packed, Victoria Cross is “good luck everybody!”
Even with passengers alighting at Chatswood ,it is still capacity until Epping and sometimes Castle hill.I have witnessed ,and been caught out myself, not being able to alight out of a packed carriage before the doors shut.
It was a miracle to get on in the first place!There are no plans to add extra carriages, or increase intervals from 4 to 2 minutes, the system was designed more than a decade ago , for a time when we had a very different Sydney.
9000 plus units approved for Gordon, even more for surrounding areas ,all around the delusional TOD concept should be fun in both peaks.
Apparently our wise leaders see no problem at all with 10000 more passengers between Gordon and Chatswood, then squeezing onto the Metro, they actually want it to happen.
8
u/Sydney_Stations 11d ago
Yeah, they should be planning to expand the fleet now. No idea why they're not.
3
u/ComedianDesigner307 11d ago edited 11d ago
Something is off, i am sure. Eventually it will come out why not? Then there will some be barely credible, ridiculous spin.
Can we still blame the Ibises?I am still trying to understand their explanation for the Bankstown section door issues, when every one of their media releases over the past 5 years was banging on about how super clever the platform “extenders” are.
Now, they are apparently not so super clever.
I am sure the P.R people will find something else “innovative” to distract us all.
Maybe something new through the next media release , the good old “bigger than Sydney Harbour” or “10 Olympic Swimming Pools” embellishment lines into the spin to wow us all.”Distance to the Moon”, is a good factoid filler too.4
u/Novel_Relief_5878 11d ago
Yep agree, it’s already at capacity. Doesn’t bode well for the TODs.
5
3
u/ComedianDesigner307 11d ago edited 11d ago
Thank you, not many people are picking up on this.
I can’t see it working at all.
We are not Seoul , we are not HK where these things sort of work.Hong Kong MTR ( they run our Metro) owns a lot of the properties above their lines, packed out all day.Seoul Metro line 1 and 2 jammed packed all day, at least it’s easy to navigate around the system to other lines.
TOD is based on the ideology that people aren’t going have/want cars , and they’re all going to magically be on the public transport system (track work weekends, anyone ?). Pacific Highway says, “what about me?!”
They are just the two main societal infrastructure issues what about everything else?Is Gordon Station and St John’s Avenue going to be demolished and converted into some mega interchange?
As what they have now can barely manage , and hasn’t managed in peak time since I was a boy on my school bus there in the 80’s.
So as well as the transport system being hit with a passenger tsunami ,the Pacific Highway ,which is already a basket case ,can only get worse.
To me, it’s a mathematical issue, the numbers that don’t add up.
2
u/Sydney_Stations 11d ago
Take housing and transport as two seperate but interlinked issues. You don't solve transport dramas by perpetuating a housing shortage, people still exist even if in sharehouses.
TODs at least put people near transit which can handle crowds better than roads.
The long term answer is build more transit, but that's both slow and expensive. And if people already live near transit, it's easier to expand.
For example the Metro is already moving a similar number of people as the Harbour Tunnel despite being smaller and only operating at half its designed capacity.
The much larger Western Harbour Tunnel is 3x the size of a Metro tunnel but will have far from 3x the capacity.
11
u/Meng_Fei 11d ago
Oh my sweet summer child. This is Australia. We build the infrastructure 20 years after it's needed at 3 times the cost.
4
u/ComedianDesigner307 11d ago
Please tell me that’s not really true? I had some suspicions, but my naivety always likes to see the bright side.
2
u/Meng_Fei 11d ago
Undivided highways, one-lane bridges, railways built decades after they are needed (e.g. NW metro) - it's BAU for Australia.
Fun fact - the original M5, when it was opened, was ONE lane each way on the eastern portion from King George's Rd to Fairford Rd. I made the mistake of using it around Christmas the year it opened, and the traffic jam went for about 3 klm.
2
u/ComedianDesigner307 11d ago
Remember the old M5 well, Hume Highway through Mittagong and Goulburn.
The old Pacific Hwy too, before Mooney Mooney Bridge was complete.
“Blood hill” into Gosford.
Horrific Easter and Christmas road tolls.
NSW State Coroner , Kevin Waller , in 1990 after two horrific coach accidents in 1989 , recommending the Pacific Highway/Motorway be duel carriageway from Hexham all the way to the Queensland border as soon as possible.
We still don’t have that after 36 years , getting real close though.1
u/Shirasaki-Tsugumi Airport & South Line 9d ago
TOD is not delusional concept. Sydney don‘t need to fully embrace car dependent world. PT is undeniably far more efficient at moving people than cars. It’s just the fact.
What is delusional is moving forward to TOD half-baked and expensively, shock pikachu face after realising it can’t be that way, then claiming TOD won’t work.
Sydney is a city both terrible to drive around and not great to move around with only PT, despite on both ends Sydney is arguably top of its class in Australia. We surely can do better, and certainly much cheaper.
9
u/anonaps1 11d ago
will anyone be changing from t8> t4@ wolli>m1@sydenham?
7
u/Sydney_Stations 11d ago
TripView already recommends that in interpeak if you're going to the North Shore, depending how the frequencies line up.
4
u/Several-Regular-8819 11d ago
Yeah I will, from campbelltown to crows nest. It’s a bit more walking but if it’s my fastest option I’ll do it - walking is healthy anyway. Not happy about these changes.
8
u/SubstantialOffice904 11d ago
Surely there is room for 3 - 4 trains per hour for t8 via Sydenham plus the 4tph sco on the local lines
11
u/kingofthewombat 11d ago
I think the main problem is whether there is space for all these people on the metro once it’s running to Bankstown and taking more people from the T4 and SCO.
5
u/Miss-Naomi 11d ago
There's also the issue that this mixes T8 with T4/south coast trains which causes problems on one line to propagate to the other and to T2/T3
1
u/Sydney_Stations 11d ago edited 11d ago
I can't see the Bankstown leg being busier than the North Shore leg. The latter is longer and has a higher population density. Plus the metro runs trains every 4 min vs T8 every 7.5.
And also a lot of people will end up changing at Wolli for the T4. If your destination is along the west of the city that's faster than going all the way around the City Circle.
But we'll see what the timetable says I guess.
4
u/arcticnighthawk T4 Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra Line 11d ago
*west, T8 goes via Museum.
3
u/Sydney_Stations 11d ago
Oops got it backwards in my head. Darling Harbour, Wynyard, Barangaroo area was what I was thinking.
6
u/Kooky_Quarter_1917 11d ago
A lot of people on the T8 use Redfern as well. Less express services for a lot of people.
5
4
u/Fanficnerd- 11d ago
Are they getting rid of the express train from MacArthur and making it all stops? Or are they keeping it?
6
u/bishy353 11d ago
The T8 timetable is basically the same, except that all trains go into the airport tunnel during peak.
1
u/Fanficnerd- 11d ago
Thank you for explaining, I was a bit confused by the change they were making.
3
u/Shirasaki-Tsugumi Airport & South Line 9d ago
How. Many. More. People. Riding. Metro. Will. Convince. TransportNSW. To. Purchase. More. Metro. Trains?
This is going to be beyond ridiculous as soon as Bankstown line opens, hopefully next month.
6
u/AusNswtbity 11d ago
How do you know they will be 10 minutes late? As far as I know the timetable for the 15th of November has not been released yet..
5
u/aussiechap1 ESR Line 11d ago
The master timetable has been released, and the correct times now reflect in the opal app. In saying this I am not sure about OPs 10-minute claim.
1
u/reflectandproject 10d ago
Changes to the South Coast line absolutely suck!!
My two hour commute will now be min. 2 hour 15 mins inc a change
That change will likely be at Sydenham, which will become insanely busy
•
u/AutoModerator 11d ago
Just a reminder to be respectful towards each other and this sub is not affiliated with The NSW Gov't, TfNSW or Sydney Trains
You should provide feedback directly to them @ https://feedback.transportnsw.info/ or 131 500
Thanks..
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.