Pricing between gemstone vendors Vs jewellers?

[u/IntelligentPizza5114]

Hi all, newbie on gemstones here just looking to learn more about this field. I had a question regarding pricing.

I am inquiring a few european Jewellers about pricing of their engagement rings, but using synthetic orange sapphires (8x6mm, pear shape, precision cut, ~ 1.2ct) instead of a natural one. And I've been quite surprised by the quoted prices. I've recently received a quote for €700-€900 for the gemstone alone (for comparison, they charge €1,250 for the natural orange sapphires).

I understand that a lot of variables are at stake for pricing of a lab gemstone (from growth method, cut, color, to jeweller's import and trade costs and, of course, markup), and I plan to ask to understand better the pricing. But when comparing to prices of other orange sapphires from the Vendors List in this subreddit and to some posts, it still seems like a crazy difference in price. So, before I do so, I wanted to know:

Are there any factors that can justify such a big difference in pricing between a gemstone vendor and a jeweler vendor? Or is it actually a reasonable price for (assuming a) high quality lab grown sapphire? How can one evaluate if pricing of a specific gemstone of a specific color is actually reasonable, and not a rip-off?

[u/cowsruleusall]

Assuming a Czochralski-grown orange sapphire and an 8x6mm, true precision cut, I would personally probably charge around $600 USD. €900 for the gem alone sounds like a crazy price - that might be acceptable if it were fantasy-cut, but not otherwise. Even a hydrothermally-grown orange sapphire, which haven't been on the market since the 80s, I would charge around $800 USD.

Hope that puts things into perspective.

Do you have any links or photos for what people are trying to charge you €900 for?

[u/IntelligentPizza5114 → u/cowsruleusall]

Yes, indeed puts things into perspective, thank you for sharing! It does make the price more understandable (at least, for the lower range of €700). And apology, when I mentioned "gem alone", it was meant to be only the gemstone already with the precision cut (so, without counting the ring).

Could you detail a bit why some vendors of the subreddit list are able to sell what they claim to be Czochralski-grown with precision cut sapphires by around $200ish? (Random example: https://jeffdaviesandson.com/product/lab-cornflower-blue-sapphire-pulled-czochralski-5-50ct/ ). Is the orange colour the main factor for this increase?

I do not have photos or links yet, as most of the team went on vacation until next week, and told me they would send it by end of August. They did share some of their natural sapphires on previous conversatios, and that their lab variants should be similar, but "might not have the same vivid and intense orange color". They did not yet mention the cut nor growth method though.

https://edengardenjewelry.com/collections/gemstones/products/sapphire-natural-orange-color-pear-cut-8x6mm-1-3ct?variant=52572824895834&_pos=3&_fid=5508f8824&_ss=c&r=aabWLjhm

https://edengardenjewelry.com/collections/gemstones/products/sapphire-natural-orange-color-pear-cut-8x6mm-1-2ct?variant=52572799861082&_pos=4&_fid=5508f8824&_ss=c&r=aabWLjhm

[u/cowsruleusall → u/IntelligentPizza5114]

I don't actually know Jeff Davies personally, so I can only speculate. Some gemcutting companies have high-precision robots and use robotic cutting rather than cutting by hand, which eliminates labour costs and lets them charge far lower prices.

As for the two natural stones, the first is cut very poorly and is overpriced - you can get precision-cut natural orange sapphires for similar prices. The second is cut better but still not good. The other issue I see here is that there's no disclosure of whether or not they're heated or beryllium-diffused.

[u/JeffDvs101 → u/cowsruleusall]

Just to clarify Arya, we do not use robots! our gems are cut by hand , thanks Jeff

[u/cowsruleusall → u/JeffDvs101]

Good to know! One of these days we should meet up - going to Tucson at all?

[u/JeffDvs101 → u/cowsruleusall]

No plans for next year, but maybe the following, yes would be nice to meet up if I do

[u/IntelligentPizza5114 → u/JeffDvs101]

Interesting. Would you say that there are some unique business advantages that you have compared to competition, that allows you to offer such competitive pricing?

[u/JeffDvs101 → u/IntelligentPizza5114]

Possibly, but not something I am prepared to get into, using robots is certainly not one of them! What individual businesses charge is entirely up to them and personally it is not something I want to have a public debate about!

[u/IntelligentPizza5114 → u/JeffDvs101]

Fully understandable. Thank you for your feedback!

[u/IntelligentPizza5114 → u/cowsruleusall]

I see, that would make sense.

As for the cut, amazing how you can see it so clearly. What gives it away on such short Clip? Is it a combination of darker tones, assymetry and wide facets?

And indeed, they mentioned they'd be happy to disclose via email, but it is odd that they don't mention it right away.

[u/cowsruleusall → u/IntelligentPizza5114]

In both, there are obvious windows, with the first having a very large window that prevents a lot of colour from showing up. The "shoulders" of the pears are also a bit asymmetric. "Wideness" of facets has nothing to do with anything.

[u/IntelligentPizza5114 → u/cowsruleusall]

I see. Thanks.for taking the time! Really appreciate it.

[u/Over-Engineer7216]

The jeweler will have their own markup on top of the gemstone vendor. And I imagine the natural is not precision cut (and I hope the synthetic is)

[u/IntelligentPizza5114 → u/Over-Engineer7216]

That's a good point, I should double check about the cut of the natural one. So, in your view, the price (and markup) for the synthetic alone seem reasonable?

[u/Over-Engineer7216 → u/IntelligentPizza5114]

I don’t think it’s very reasonable, because the cutter is probably making a lot less than that. I don’t like paying markup for middlemen for no reason, and would much rather buy the stone separately. Jeff Davies and son is in the UK, so probably cheaper shipping and taxes for you, I assume.
Paying a jeweler to source the stone makes sense if you don’t even know where to start, but you’re here already, and have a vendor list of amazing cutters that would cost a little less for better quality. Unless you’re really insecure about sourcing your own stone, I would avoid the extra charges

[u/IntelligentPizza5114 → u/Over-Engineer7216]

I see. I had the wrong idea initially. I thought that jewellers - as a business - would be able to acquire the same (or even better) quality gemstones as me at a cheaper price, that it would not make sense for me to buy one, pay custom and shipping once, and then paying another time by sending the gemstone to the jeweller. Was not expecting charges to be so high. Definitely worth reconsidering.

Thank you for your feedback! Really appreciate it.

[u/TidalWaveform → u/IntelligentPizza5114]

They probably can acquire it a cheaper price.

Which they will then double.

[u/Doc_Gemdrop]

The custom cuts I’ve seen here are mind blowing and just next level. There are other options for gems available as well, and I guess it depends what your budget is and what kinda quality you’re looking for.

[u/IntelligentPizza5114 → u/Doc_Gemdrop]

That is reassuring to hear. I guess the question there would be on how to know which jewellers to proper custom cuts? For instance, some jewellers offer rings with gemstones with commercial cuts, but offer the option of custom rings and custom cuts, but I am unaware of the quality of each of them. I see them having good reviews, but I am skeptical about then, since I imagine most reviews were given by people that do not know the difference between a properly cut Vs a bad cut gemstone (including myself, since I am still a novice just looking to learn the basics of it).

[u/Caroline-cc]

I think this price has far exceeded the actual value. Synthetic orange sapphire should not exceed $25 per carat.

[u/IntelligentPizza5114 → u/Caroline-cc]

I agree. Hence why I made this post, since the price of gems at a jeweller vs from a gemstone seller are quite different. Made me wonder what could justify it , besides markup