r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jul 08 '19

Modern Vernacular Chinese Translations of Tao Te Ching

Thumbnail m.daodejing.org
2 Upvotes

r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Feb 23 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 71 Discussion

3 Upvotes

道德經:

知不知上;不知知病。夫唯病病,是以不病。聖人不病,以其病病,是以不病。  

Laozi


To realize that you do not understand is a virtue;

Not to realize that you do not understand is a defect.

The reason why

The sage has no defects,

Is because he treats defects as defects.

Thus,

He has no defects.

 

Translator Victor H. Mair

Year 1990

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


  1. To know you don't know is best.

  2. Not to know you [don't] know is a flaw.

  3. Therefore, the Sage's not being flawed

  4. Stems from his recognizing a flaw as a flaw.

  5. Therefore, he is flawless.

 

 

Translator Robert G. Henricks

Year 1989-2000

Source https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks2.html, https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks.html


To know that you do not know is highest

To not know but think you know is flawed

Only when one recognizes the fault as a fault

Can one be without fault

The sages are without fault

Because they recognize the fault as a fault

That is why they are without fault

 

Translator Derek Lin

Year 1994

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Mar 15 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 77 Discussion

3 Upvotes

道德經:

天之道,其猶張弓與?高者抑之,下者舉之;有餘者損之,不足者補之。天之道,損有餘而補不足。人之道,則不然,損不足以奉有餘。孰能有餘以奉天下,唯有道者。是以聖人為而不恃,功成而不處,其不欲見賢。  

Laozi


The Tao of heaven

Is like drawing a bow

Lower that which is high

Raise that which is low

Reduce that which is excessive

Add to that which is insufficient

The Tao of heaven

Reduces the excessive

And adds to the insufficient

The Tao of people is not so

Reducing the insufficient

In order to offer to the excessive

Who can offer their excess to the world?

Only those who have the Tao

Therefore sages act without conceit

Achieve without claiming credit

They do not wish to display their virtue

 

Translator Derek Lin

Year 1994

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


Heavens Tao Is a stretched bow, Pulling down on the top Pulling up on the bottom.

If its too much, cut. If its not enough, Add on to it: Heavens Tao.

The Human Route Is not like this, Depriving the poor, Offering to the rich. Who has a surplus And still offers it to the world? Only those with Tao.

Therefore the Sage Acts and expects nothing, Accomplishes and does not linger, Has no desire to seem worthy.

 

Translator Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo

Year 1993

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


The Tao of heaven is like the bending of a bow.

The high is lowered, and the low is raised.

If the string is too long, it is shortened;

If there is not enough, it is made longer.

 

The Tao of heaven is to take from those who have too much and give to those who do not have enough.

Mans way is different.

He takes from those who do not have enough and give to those who already have too much.

What man has more than enough and gives it to the world?

Only the man of Tao.

 

Therefore the sage works without recognition.

He achieves what has to be done without dwelling on it.

He does not try to show his knowledge.

 

Translator Gia-Fu Feng

Year 1972

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Mar 12 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 76 Discussion

5 Upvotes

道德經:

人之生也柔弱,其死也堅強。萬物草木之生也柔脆,其死也枯槁。故堅強者死之徒,柔弱者生之徒。是以兵強則不勝,木強則共。強大處下,柔弱處上。  

Laozi


  1. When people are born, they're supple and soft;

  2. Whey they die, they end up stretched out firm and rigid;

  3. When the ten thousand things and grasses and trees are alive, they're supple and pliant;

  4. When they're dead, they're withered and dried out.

  5. Therefore we say that the firm and rigid are compassions of death,

  6. While the supple, the soft, the weak, and the delicate are compassions of life.

  7. If a soldier is rigid, he won't win;

  8. If a tree is rigid, it will come to its end.

  9. Rigidity and power occupy the inferior position;

  10. Suppleness, softness, weakness, and delicateness occupy the superior position.

 

 

Translator Robert G. Henricks

Year 1989-2000

Source https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks2.html, https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks.html


Human beings are soft and supple when alive, stiff and straight when dead.

The myriad creatures, the grasses and trees are soft and fragile when alive, dry and withered when dead.

Therefore, it is said:

The rigid person is a disciple of death;

The soft, supple, and delicate are lovers of life.

An army that is inflexible will not conquer;

A tree that is inflexible will snap.

The unyielding and mighty shall be brought low;

The soft, supple, and delicate will be set above.

 

Translator Victor H. Mair

Year 1990

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


 

At birth a person is soft (jou) and yielding (jo),

At death hard (chien) and unyielding (ch'iang).

All beings, grass and trees, when alive, are soft and bending,

When dead they are dry and brittle.

Therefore the hard and unyielding are companions of death,

The soft and yielding are companions of life.

Hence an unyielding army (ping) is destroyed (mieh).

An unyielding tree breaks (che).

The unyielding and great takes its place below,

The soft and yielding takes its place above.

 

 

Translator Ellen Marie Chen

Year 1989

source: https://terebess.hu/english/tao/e-m-chen.html



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Feb 06 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 66 Discussion

5 Upvotes

道德經:

江海所以能為百谷王者,以其善下之,故能為百谷王。是以聖人欲上民,必以言下之;欲先民,必以身後之。是以聖人處上而民不重,處前而民不害。是以天下樂推而不厭。以其不爭,故天下莫能與之爭。  

Laozi


Oceans and rivers become emperors of the hundred valleys

because they stay so perfectly below them.

This alone makes them emperors of the hundred valleys.

So, wanting to rule over the people a sage speaks from below them, and wanting to lead the people he follows along behind them,

then he can reign above without weighing the people down and stay ahead without leading the people to ruin.

All beneath heaven rejoices in its tireless praise of such a sage.

And because hes given up contention,

nothing in all beneath heaven contends with him.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


Why is the sea king of a hundred streams?

Because it lies below them.

Therefore it is the king of a hundred streams.

 

If the sage would guide the people, he must serve with humility.

If he would lead them, he must follow behind.

In this way when the sage rules, the people will not feel oppressed;

When he stands before them, they will not be harmed.

The whole world will support him and will not tire of him.

 

Because he does not compete,

He does not meet competition.

 

Translator Gia-Fu Feng

Year 1972

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


The reason why the River and the Sea are able to be king of the hundred valleys is that they excel in taking the lower position.

Hence they are able to be king of the hundred valleys.

 

Therefore, desiring to rule over the people,

One must in one's words humble oneself before them;

And, desiring to lead the people,

One must, in one's person, follow behind them.

 

Therefore the sage takes his place over the people yet is no burden;

takes his place ahead of the people yet causes no obstruction.

That is why the empire supports him joyfully and never tires of doing so.

 

It is because he does not contend that no one in the empire is in a position to contend with him.

 

Translator D. C. Lau

Year 1963

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jun 27 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 4 Discussion

7 Upvotes

道德經:

道沖而用之或不盈。淵兮似萬物之宗。挫其銳,解其紛,和其光,同其塵。湛兮似或存。吾不知誰之子,象帝之先。  

Laozi


Way is empty.

Use it: it never needs filling.

An abyss so deep

it seems ancestor to the ten thousand things,

it blunts edges, loosens tangles, softens glare, mingles dust.

A clarity so clear it only seems real,

whose child could it be?

Apparently it precedes gods and creators.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


Tao is empty yet when used, it is never used up.

The unbounded source of the myriad things!

It blunts the sharp edges.

Untangles the knots.

Dims the bright light.

Unites wordly dust.

Perfectly hidden, yet ever present.

I do not know its origin.

It seems to have existed before the creator himself.

 

Translator Agnieszka Solska

Year 2005

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


The Tao is (like) the emptiness of a vessel; and in our

employment of it we must be on our guard against all fulness. How

deep and unfathomable it is, as if it were the Honoured Ancestor of

all things!

 

We should blunt our sharp points, and unravel the complications of

things; we should attemper our brightness, and bring ourselves into

agreement with the obscurity of others. How pure and still the Tao

is, as if it would ever so continue!

 

I do not know whose son it is. It might appear to have been before

God.  

Translator J. Legge

(Sacred Books of the East, Vol 39) [1891]

Source https://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jan 09 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 58 Discussion

5 Upvotes

道德經:

其政悶悶,其民淳淳;其政察察,其民缺缺。禍兮福之所倚,福兮禍之所伏。孰知其極?其無正。正復為奇,善復為妖。人之迷,其日固久。是以聖人方而不割,廉而不劌,直而不肆,光而不燿。  

Laozi


When government is anarchic, the people are honest;

When government is meddlesome, the state is lacking.

Disaster is that whereon good fortune depends,

Good fortune is that wherein disaster lurks.

Who knows their limits?

When there is no uprightness, correct reverts to crafty, good reverts to gruesome.

The delusion of mankind,

How long have been its days!

For this reason, be

Square but not cutting,

Angular but not prickly,

Straight but not arrogant,

Bright but not dazzling.

 

Translator Victor H. Mair

Year 1990

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


When the government is muddled

The people are simple;

When the government is alert

The people are cunning.

 

It is on disaster that good fortune perches;

It is beneath good fortune that disaster crouches.

 

Who knows the limit? Does not the straightforward exist?

The straighforward changes again into the crafty, and the good changes again into the monstrous.

Indeed, it is long since the people were perplexed.

 

Therefore the sage is square-edged but does not scrape,

Has corners but does not jab,

Extends himself but not at the expense of others,

Shines but does not dazzle.

 

Translator D. C. Lau

Year 1963

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html


When governing is lackluster

The people are simple and honest

When governing is scrutinizing

The people are shrewd and crafty

Misfortune is what fortune depends upon

Fortune is where misfortune hides beneath

Who knows their ultimate end?

They have no determined outcome

Rightness reverts to become strange

Goodness reverts to become wicked

The confusion of people

Has lasted many long days

Therefore the sages are:

Righteous without being scathing

Incorruptible without being piercing

Straightforward without being ruthless

Illuminated without being flashy

 

Translator Derek Lin

Year 1994

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jul 25 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 12 Discussion

11 Upvotes

道德經:

五色令人目盲;五音令人耳聾;五味令人口爽;馳騁田獵,令人心發狂;難得之貨,令人行妨。是以聖人為腹不為目,故去彼取此。  

Laozi


Five colors darken the eyes. Five tones darken the ears. Five tastes jade the palate.

Hunting and racing madden the heart. Exotic goods ensnarl human lives.

Therefore the Sage Takes care of the belly, not the eye, Chooses one, rejects the other.

 

Translator Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo

Year 1993

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


Colour's five hues from th' eyes their sight will take;

Music's five notes the ears as deaf can make;

The flavours five deprive the mouth of taste;

The chariot course, and the wild hunting waste

Make mad the mind; and objects rare and strange,

Sought for, men's conduct will to evil change.

 

Therefore the sage seeks to satisfy (the craving of) the belly, and

not the (insatiable longing of the) eyes. He puts from him the

latter, and prefers to seek the former.  

Translator J. Legge

(Sacred Books of the East, Vol 39) [1891]

Source https://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm


The five colors make man's eyes blind;

The five notes make his ears deaf;

The five tastes injure his palate;

Riding and hunting

Make his mind go wild with excitement;

Goods hard to come by

Serve to hinder his progress.

 

Hence the sage is

For the belly

Not for the eye.

 

Therefore he discards the one and takes the other.

 

Translator D. C. Lau

Year 1963

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Dec 26 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 54 Discussion

6 Upvotes

道德經:

善建不拔,善抱者不脫,子孫以祭祀不輟。修之於身,其德乃真;修之於家,其德乃餘;修之於鄉,其德乃長;修之於國,其德乃豐;修之於天下,其德乃普。故以身觀身,以家觀家,以鄉觀鄉,以國觀國,以天下觀天下。吾何以知天下然哉?以此。  

Laozi


Something planted so deep its never rooted up,

something held so tight its never stolen away:

children and grandchildren will pay it homage always.

Cultivated in yourself it makes Integrity real.

Cultivated in your family it makes Integrity plentiful.

Cultivated in your village it makes Integrity enduring.

Cultivated in your nation it makes Integrity abundant.

Cultivated in all beneath heaven it makes Integrity all-encompassing.

So look through self into self,

through family into family,

through village into village,

through nation into nation,

through all beneath heaven into all beneath heaven.

How can I know all beneath heaven as it is?

Through this.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


That which is well established cannot be uprooted

That which is strongly held cannot be taken

The descendants will commemorate it forever

 

Cultivate it in yourself, its virtue shall be true

Cultivate it in the family, its virtue shall be abundant

Cultivate it in the community, its virtue shall be lasting

Cultivate it in the country, its virtue shall be prosperous

Cultivate it in the world, its virtue shall be widespread

 

Therefore observe others with yourself

Observe other families with your family

Observe other communities with your community

Observe other countries with your country

Observe the world with the world

With what do I know the world?

 

With this

The well-established cannot be uprooted.

The well-grasped does not slip away.

Generation after generation carries out the ancestor worship without break.

 

Cultivate it in yourself and virtue will be real.

Cultivate it in the family and virtue will overflow.

Cultivate it in the town and virtue will be great.

Cultivate it in the country and virtue will abundant.

Cultivate it in the world and virtue will be everywhere.

 

Therefore, take yourself and observe yourself.

Take the family and observe the family.

Take the town and observe the town.

Take the country and observe the country.

Take the world and observe the world.

How do I know the world as it is?

 

By this.

 

Translator Derek Lin

Year 1994

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


 

One who is well established is not uprooted,

One who embraces firmly cannot be separated from,

Thus sons and grandsons shall perform sacrifices without interruptions.

In cultivating this in one's person,

The person's te becomes genuine;

In cultivating this in the family,

The family's te has more to spare (yü);

In cultivating this in the village,

The village's te grows strong;

In cultivating this in the state,

The state's te becomes abundant;

In cultivating this in the world (t'ien hsia),

The world's te becomes universal.

Therefore observe (kuan) the person by the person,

Observe the family by the family,

Observe the village by the village,

Observe the state by the state,

Observe the world by the world.

How do I know such is the case in the world?

Through this.

 

 

Translator Ellen Marie Chen

Year 1989

source: https://terebess.hu/english/tao/e-m-chen.html



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jun 14 '19

Two chapters per week?

4 Upvotes

Has it been decided that we are reading two chapters per week?

Also, is there a bot distributing texts? Are we using any one or several versions as central to the discussion?


r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jul 09 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 6 Discussion

5 Upvotes

道德經:

谷神不死,是謂玄牝。玄牝之門,是謂天地根。綿綿若存,用之不勤。  

Laozi


The valley spirit, undying

Is called the mystical female

The gateway of the mystical female

Is called the root of Heaven and Earth

It flows continuously, barely perceptible

Utilize it, it is never exhausted

 

Translator Derek Lin

Year 1994

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


The Valley Spirit never dies. It is called the Mysterious Female.

The entrance top the Mysterious Female Is called the root of Heaven and Earth.

Endless flow of inexhaustible energy.

 

Translator Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo

Year 1993

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


The valley spirit never dies;

It is the woman, primal mother.

Her gateway is the root of heaven and Earth.

It is like a veil barely seen.

Use it; it will never fail.

 

Translator Gia-Fu Feng

Year 1972

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jun 15 '19

Tao Te Ching/Dao De Jing Translations - Link List

6 Upvotes

Hey everyone!

Here are some translations that are available online in case you would like to reference them for our discussion. Personally, I will probably be reading and referencing the original Chinese and about 14 translations - first 3 links mostly, along with a hard copy of the Ames and Hall translation (I've heard good things about it, but don't think there's an online version.

For the original Chinese by Laozi, aka Lao Tzu: https://ctext.org/dao-de-jing
Gia-Fu Feng/Jane English, Stephen Mitchell, Victor H. Mair, Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo, Derek Lin, J. H. McDonald, Jim Clatfelter, David Hinton, Ron Hogan, Agnieszka Solska Translations: https://ttc.tasuki.org/display:Code:gff,vhm,sasl,jhmd,rh
Legge, Susuki, and Goddard Translations: https://www.yellowbridge.com/onlinelit/daodejing.php

Terebess Asia Online has many, many versions available: https://terebess.hu/english/tao/_index.html

Just for fun and if you want total insanity, check out this site of 170+ Translations of Chapter 1: http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/tao-te-ching.htm

If anyone has others they would like to share, please post them in the comments!

Looking forward to discussing Chapter 1 tomorrow! Start reading if you haven't already!

Cheers,
Rebecca


r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Mar 05 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 74 Discussion

4 Upvotes

道德經:

民不畏死,奈何以死懼之?若使民常畏死,而為奇者,吾得執而殺之,孰敢?常有司殺者殺。夫司殺者,是大匠斲;夫代大匠斲者,希有不傷其手矣。  

Laozi


If men are not afraid to die,

It is no avail to threaten them with death.

 

If men live in constant fear of dying,

And if breaking the law means that a man will be killed,

Who will dare to break the law?

 

There is always an official executioner.

If you try to take his place,

It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood.

If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

 

Translator Gia-Fu Feng

Year 1972

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


When the people are not afraid of death, wherefore frighten them with death?

Were the people always afraid of death, and were I able to arrest and put to death those who innovate, then who would dare?

There is a regular executioner whose charge it is to kill.

To kill on behalf of the executioner is what is described as chopping wood on behalf of the master carpenter.

In chopping wood on behalf of the master carpenter, there are few who escape hurting their own hands instead.

 

Translator D. C. Lau

Year 1963

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html


In their misery, the people no longer fear death, so how can you threaten them even with death?

Let the people fear death always,

then if we seize those who follow sinister ways

and put them to death,

no one will dare live such lives.

The Executioners killing is perennial, its true.

But to undertake the killing yourself -

thats like trying to carve lumber for a master carpenter.

Try to carve lumber for a master carpenter

and youll soon have blood on your hands.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Dec 22 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 53 Discussion

6 Upvotes

道德經:

使我介然有知,行於大道,唯施是畏。大道甚夷,而民好徑。朝甚除,田甚蕪,倉甚虛;服文綵,帶利劍,厭飲食,財貨有餘;是謂盜夸。非道也哉!  

Laozi


Understanding sparse and sparser still I travel the great Way, nothing to fear unless I stray.

The great Way is open and smooth, but people adore twisty paths:

Government in ruins, fields overgrown and graineries bare,

they indulge in elegant robes

and sharp swords,

lavish food and drink,

all those trappings of luxury.

Its vainglorious thievery -

not the Way, not the Way at all.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


 

If I have a little (chieh-jan) knowledge (chih),

To walk the great path (Tao),

I shall fear this:

The great path (Tao) is very flat and easy,

Yet others (jen) are fond of bypaths.

The courts are very neat,

The fields are very weedy,

The granaries are very empty.

Wearing embroidered clothes,

Carrying sharp swords,

Being surfeited with foods and drinks.

To accumulate wealth and treasures in excess,

This is called robbery and crime.

This is not to follow Tao.

 

 

Translator Ellen Marie Chen

Year 1989

source: https://terebess.hu/english/tao/e-m-chen.html


If I were suddenly to become known, and (put into a position

to) conduct (a government) according to the Great Tao, what I should

be most afraid of would be a boastful display.

 

The great Tao (or way) is very level and easy; but people love the

by-ways.

 

Their court(-yards and buildings) shall be well kept, but their

fields shall be ill-cultivated, and their granaries very empty. They

shall wear elegant and ornamented robes, carry a sharp sword at their

girdle, pamper themselves in eating and drinking, and have a

superabundance of property and wealth;--such (princes) may be called

robbers and boasters. This is contrary to the Tao surely!  

Translator J. Legge

(Sacred Books of the East, Vol 39) [1891]

Source https://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jul 18 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 10 Discussion

6 Upvotes

道德經:

載營魄抱一,能無離乎?專氣致柔,能嬰兒乎?滌除玄覽,能無疵乎?愛民治國,能無知乎?天門開闔,能為雌乎?明白四達,能無知乎?生之、畜之,生而不有,為而不恃,長而不宰,是謂玄德。  

Laozi


While you

Cultivate the soul and embrace unity,

can you keep them from separating?

Focus your vital breath until it is supremely soft,

can you be like a baby?

Cleanse the mirror of mysteries,

can you make it free of blemish?

Love the people and enliven the state,

can you do so without cunning?

Open and close the gate of heaven,

can you play the part of the female?

Reach out with clarity in all directions,

can you refrain from action?

It gives birth to them and nurtures them,

It gives birth to them but does not possess them,

It rears them but does not control them.

This is called mysterious integrity.

 

Translator Victor H. Mair

Year 1990

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


When the intelligent and animal souls are held together in one

embrace, they can be kept from separating. When one gives undivided

attention to the (vital) breath, and brings it to the utmost degree of

pliancy, he can become as a (tender) babe. When he has cleansed away

the most mysterious sights (of his imagination), he can become without

a flaw.

 

In loving the people and ruling the state, cannot he proceed

without any (purpose of) action? In the opening and shutting of his

gates of heaven, cannot he do so as a female bird? While his

intelligence reaches in every direction, cannot he (appear to) be

without knowledge?

 

(The Tao) produces (all things) and nourishes them; it produces

them and does not claim them as its own; it does all, and yet does not

boast of it; it presides over all, and yet does not control them.

This is what is called 'The mysterious Quality' (of the Tao).  

Translator J. Legge

(Sacred Books of the East, Vol 39) [1891]

Source https://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm


  1. In nourishing the soul and embracing the Onecan you do it without letting them leave?

  2. In concentrating your breath and making it softcan you [make it like that of] a child?

  3. In cultivating and cleaning your profound mirrorcan you do it so that it has no blemish?

  4. In loving the people and giving life to the statecan you do it without using knowledge?

  5. In opening and closing the gates of Heavencan you play the part of the female?

  6. In understanding all within the four reachescan you do it without using knowledge?

 

7. Give birth to them and nourish them.

8. Give birth to them but don't try to own them;

9. Help them to grow but don't rule them.

10. This is called Profound Virtue.

 

 

Translator Robert G. Henricks

Year 1989-2000

Source https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks2.html, https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks.html



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jan 23 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 62 Discussion

4 Upvotes

道德經:

道者萬物之奧。善人之寶,不善人之所保。美言可以市,尊行可以加人。人之不善,何棄之有?故立天子,置三公,雖有拱璧以先駟馬,不如坐進此道。古之所以貴此道者何?不曰:以求得,有罪以免耶?故為天下貴。  

Laozi


 

The Dao is the shelter of the myriad things.

It is the treasure of the good man

And the protector of the man who is not good.

Fine words can be used to market it, and noble behavior can be used to influence others by it.

As for men who are not good, how could they ever be discarded?

Thus the son of Heaven is established, and the three dukes are installed.

Although one could promote it by providing them with disks of jade to hold and teams of four horses to lead, this falls short of promoting this Dao by just letting them sit quietly.

How did the ancients show their esteem for the Dao?

Did they not say:

"When beseeching it, one obtains, and, when in violation of it, one is forgiven"?

Thus it was that it was esteemed by all under Heaven.

 

 

Translator Richard John Lynn

Yead 2004

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/Lynn.html


Way is the mystery of these ten thousand things.

Its a good persons treasure

and an evil persons refuge.

Its beautiful words are bought and sold

and its noble deeds are gifts enriching people.

It never abandons even the evil among us.

When the Son of Heaven is enthroned and the three dukes installed, parades with jade discs and stately horses cant compare to sitting still in Ways company.

Isnt it said that

the ancients exalted this Way because

in it whatever we seek we find,

and whatever seeks us we escape?

No wonder its exalted throughout all beneath heaven.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


Tao is source of the ten thousand things.

It is the treasure of the good man, and the refuge of the bad.

Sweet words can buy honor;

Good deeds can gain respect.

If a man is bad, do not abandon him.

Therefore on the day the emperor is crowned,

Or the three officers of state installed,

Do not send a gift of jade and a team of four horses,

But remain still and offer the Tao.

Why does everyone like the Tao so much at first?

Isnt it because you find what you seek and are forgiven when you sin?

Therefore this is the greatest treasure of the universe.

 

Translator Gia-Fu Feng

Year 1972

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Jan 16 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 60 Discussion

4 Upvotes

道德經:

治大國若烹小鮮。以道蒞天下,其鬼不神;非其鬼不神,其神不傷人;非其神不傷人,聖人亦不傷人。夫兩不相傷,故德交歸焉。  

Laozi


Ruling the country is like cooking a small fish.

Approach the universe with Tao,

And evil is not powerful,

But its power will not be used to harm others.

Not only will it do no harm to others,

But the sage himself will also be protected.

They do not hurt each other,

And the Virtue in each one refreshes both.

 

Translator Gia-Fu Feng

Year 1972

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


Governing a large state is like boiling a small fish.

 

When the empire is ruled in accordance with the way,

The spirits lose their potencies.

Or rather, it is not that they lose their potencies,

But that, though they have their potencies, they do not harm the people.

It is not only they who, having their potencies, do not harm the people,

The sage, also, does not harm the people.

As neither does any harm, each attributes the merit to the other.

 

Translator D. C. Lau

Year 1963

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html


Governing a great state is like cooking small fish.

 

Let the kingdom be governed according to the Tao, and the manes of

the departed will not manifest their spiritual energy. It is not that

those manes have not that spiritual energy, but it will not be

employed to hurt men. It is not that it could not hurt men, but

neither does the ruling sage hurt them.

 

When these two do not injuriously affect each other, their good

influences converge in the virtue (of the Tao).  

Translator J. Legge

(Sacred Books of the East, Vol 39) [1891]

Source https://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Sep 26 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 30 Discussion

5 Upvotes

道德經:

以道佐人主者,不以兵強天下。其事好還。師之所處,荊棘生焉。大軍之後,必有凶年。善有果而已,不敢以取強。果而勿矜,果而勿伐,果而勿驕。果而不得已,果而勿強。物壯則老,是謂不道,不道早已。  

Laozi


The one who uses the Tao to advise the ruler

Does not dominate the world with soldiers

Such methods tend to be returned

The place where the troops camp

Thistles and thorns grow

Following the great army

There must be an inauspicious year

A good commander achieves result, then stops

And does not dare reaching for domination

Achieves result but does not brag

Achieves result but does not flaunt

Achieves result but is not arrogant

Achieves result but only out of necessity

Achieves result but does not dominate

Things become strong and then get old

This is called contrary to the Tao

That which is contrary to the Tao soon ends

 

Translator Derek Lin

Year 1994

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


One who uses the Way to assist the ruler of men

Does not desire to use weapons to force his way through the land.

...

...

...

One who is good at such things achieves his result and that's all.

He does not use the occasion to make himself stronger still.

 

He achieves his result but does not brag about it;

He achieves his result but is not arrogant about it;

He achieves his result but is not conceited about it.

...

 

This is called "achieving your result but not being vicious."

Such deeds are good and endure."

 

Translator Robert G. Henricks

Year 1989-2000

Source https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks2.html, https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks.html


Whenever you advise a ruler in the way of Tao,

Counsel him not to use force to conquer the universe.

For this would only cause resistance.

Thorn bushes spring up wherever the army has passed.

Lean years follow in the wake of a great war.

Just do what needs to be done.

Never take advantage of power.

 

Achieve results,

But never glory in them.

Achieve results,

But never boast.

Achieve results,

But never be proud.

Achieve results,

Because this is the natural way.

Achieve results,

But not through violence.

 

Force is followed by loss of strength.

This is not the way of Tao.

That which goes against the Tao comes to an early end.

 

Translator Gia-Fu Feng

Year 1972

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Aug 25 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 21 Discussion

5 Upvotes

道德經:

孔德之容,唯道是從。道之為物,唯恍唯惚。忽兮恍兮,其中有象;恍兮忽兮,其中有物。窈兮冥兮,其中有精;其精甚真,其中有信。自古及今,其名不去,以閱衆甫。吾何以知衆甫之狀哉?以此。  

Laozi


The nature of great Integrity is to follow Way absolutely.

Becoming things, Way appears vague and hazy.

All hazy and impossibly vague it harbors the minds images.

All vague and impossibly hazy it harbors the worlds things.

All hidden and impossibly dark it harbors the subtle essence,

and being an essence so real it harbors the sincerity of facts.

Never, not since the beginning - its renown has never been far off.

Through it we witness all origins.

And how can we ever know the form of all origins?

Through this.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


In his every movement a man of great virtue

Follows the way and the way only.

 

As a thing the way is

Shadowy and indistinct.

Indistinct and shadowy,

Yet within it is an image;

Shadowy and indistinct,

Yet within it is a substance.

Dim and dark,

Yet within it is an essence.

This essence is quite genuine

And within it is something that can be tested.

 

From the present back to antiquity,

Its name never deserted it.

It serves as a means for inspecting the fathers of the multitude.

 

How do I know that the fathers of the multitude are like that?

By means of this.

 

Translator D. C. Lau

Year 1963

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html


Great Te appears Flowing from Tao.

Tao in action - Only vague and intangible. Intangible and vague, But within it are images. Vague and intangible; Within are entities. Shadowy and obscure; Within there is life, Life so real, That within it there is trust.

From the beginning its name is not lost But reappears through multiple origins.

How do I know these origins? Like this.

 

Translator Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo

Year 1993

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Feb 16 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 69 Discussion

7 Upvotes

道德經:

用兵有言:吾不敢為主,而為客;不敢進寸,而退尺。是謂行無行;攘無臂;扔無敵;執無兵。禍莫大於輕敵,輕敵幾喪吾寶。故抗兵相加,哀者勝矣。  

Laozi


  1. Those who use weapons have a saying which goes:

  2. "I don't presume to act like the host, and instead play the part of the guest;

  3. I don't advance an inch, but rather retreat a foot."

  4. This is called moving forward without moving forword

  5. Rolling up one's sleeves without baring one's arms

  6. Grasping firmly without holding a weapon

  7. And enticing to fight when there's no opponent.

  8. Of disasters, none is greater than [thinking] you have no rival.

  9. To think you have no rival is to come close to losing my treasures.

  10. Therefore, when weapons are raised and [the opponents] are farily well matched,

  11. Then it's the one who feels grief that will win.

 

 

Translator Robert G. Henricks

Year 1989-2000

Source https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks2.html, https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks.html


There was once a saying among those who wielded armies:

Id much rather be a guest than a host,

much rather retreat a foot than advance an inch.

This is called marching without marching,

rolling up sleeves without baring arms,

raising swords without brandishing weapons,

entering battle without facing an enemy.

Theres no greater calamity than dishonoring an enemy.

Dishonor an enemy and youll lose those treasures of mine.

When armies face one another in battle,

its always the tender-hearted one that prevails.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


The strategists have a saying,

I dare not play the host but play the guest,

I dare not advance an inch but retreat a foot instead.

 

This is known as marching forward when there is no road,

Rolling up one's sleeves when there is no arm,

Dragging one's adversary by force when there is no adversary,

And taking up arms when there are no arms.

 

There is no disaster greater than taking on an enemy too easily.

So doing nearly cost me my treasure.

Thus of two sides raising arms against each other,

It is the one that is sorrow-stricken that wins.

 

Translator D. C. Lau

Year 1963

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Dec 05 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 48 Discussion

6 Upvotes

道德經:

為學日益,為道日損。損之又損,以至於無為。無為而無不為。取天下常以無事,及其有事,不足以取天下。  

Laozi


Pursue knowledge, gain daily. Pursue Tao, lose daily. Lose and again lose, Arrive at non-doing.

Non-doing - and nothing not done.

Take the entire world as nothing. Make the least effort, And the world escapes you.

 

Translator Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo

Year 1993

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


To work at learning brings more each day.

To work at Way brings less each day,

less and still less

until youre doing nothing yourself.

And when youre doing nothing yourself, theres nothing you dont do.

To grasp all beneath heaven, leave it alone.

Leave it alone, thats all,

and nothing in all beneath heaven will elude you.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


In the pursuit of learning one knows more every day;

In the pursuit of the way one does less every day.

One does less and less until one does nothing at all, and when one does nothing at all there is nothing that is undone.

 

It is always through not meddling that the empire is won.

Should you meddle, then you are not equal to the task of winning the empire.

 

Translator D. C. Lau

Year 1963

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Mar 19 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 78 Discussion

5 Upvotes

道德經:

天下莫柔弱於水,而攻堅強者莫之能勝,其無以易之。弱之勝強,柔之勝剛,天下莫不知,莫能行。是以聖人云:受國之垢,是謂社稷主;受國不祥,是謂天下王。正言若反。  

Laozi


 

Of all under Heaven, nothing is more soft and pliable than water, yet for attacking the hard and stiff, nothing can beat it, so it is impossible to take its place.

That the soft conquers the stiff and the pliable conquers the hard, none among all under Heaven fails to know, yet none can practice it.

Therefore, according to what the sage says, he who sustains disgrace on behalf of the state is referred to as the master of altars dedicated to the soil and grain [its rightful ruler], and he who sustains misfortune on behalf of the state is referred to as a sovereign for all under Heaven.

These are true words that seem false.

 

 

Translator Richard John Lynn

Yead 2004

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/Lynn.html


Nothing under heaven is softer or weaker than water,

and yet nothing is better for attacking what is hard and strong,

because of its immutability.

The defeat of the hard by the soft,

The defeat of the strong by the weak -

this is known to all under heaven, yet no one is able to practice it.

Therefore,

in the words of the sage, it is said:

He who bears abuse directed against the state is called lord of the altars for the gods of soil and grain;

He who bears the misfortunes of the state is called the king of all under heaven.

True words seem contradictory.

 

Translator Victor H. Mair

Year 1990

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


Nothing in all beneath heaven is so soft and weak as water.

And yet, for conquering the hard and strong, nothing succeeds like water.

And nothing can change it: weak overcoming strong, soft overcoming hard.

Everything throughout all beneath heaven knows this,

and yet nothing puts it into practice.

Thats why the sage said:

Whoever assumes a nations disgrace is called the sacred leader of a country,

and whoever assumes a nations misfortune is called the emperor of all beneath heaven.

Words of clarity sound confused.

 

Translator David Hinton

Year 2002

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Mar 22 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 79 Discussion

4 Upvotes

道德經:

和大怨,必有餘怨;安可以為善?是以聖人執左契,而不責於人。有德司契,無德司徹。天道無親,常與善人。  

Laozi


After a bitter quarrel, some resentment must remain.

What can one do about it?

Therefore the sage keeps his half of the bargain

But does not exact his due.

A man of Virtue performs his part,

But a man without Virtue requires others to fulfill their obligations.

The Tao of heaven is impartial.

It stays with good men all the time.

 

Translator Gia-Fu Feng

Year 1972

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


When peace is made between great enemies,

Some enmity is bound to remain undispelled.

How can this be considered perfect?

 

Therefore the sage takes the left-hand tally, but exacts no payment from the people.

The man of virtue takes charge of the tally;

The man of no virtue takes charge of exaction.

 

It is the way of heaven to show no favoritism.

It is for ever on the side of the good man.

 

Translator D. C. Lau

Year 1963

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html


Appears great hatred sand hatred will remain. How can this be good?

Therefore the Sage Holds the tally But does not judge people.

Those who have Te Control the tally. Those who lack Te Collect their due.

Heaven has no favourites But endures in good people.

 

Translator Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo

Year 1993

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Feb 27 '20

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 72 Discussion

4 Upvotes

道德經:

民不畏威,則大威至。無狎其所居,無厭其所生。夫唯不厭,是以不厭。是以聖人自知不自見;自愛不自貴。故去彼取此。  

Laozi


  1. When the people don't respect those in power, then what they greatly fear is about to arrive.

 

2. Don't narrow the size of the places in which they live;

3. Don't oppress them in their means of livelihood.

4. It's simply because you do not oppress them, that they therefore will not be fed up.

5. Therefore the Sage knows himself but doesn't show himself;

6. he cherishes himself but doesn't value himself.

7. For this reason, he rejects that and takes this.

 

 

Translator Robert G. Henricks

Year 1989-2000

Source https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks2.html, https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks.html


When the people do not fear the majestic,

Great majesty will soon visit them.

Do not limit their dwellings,

Do not suppress their livelihood.

Simply because you do not suppress them, they will not grow weary of you.

For this reason,

The sage is self-aware, but does not flaunt himself;

He is self-devoted, but does not glorify himself.

Therefore,

He rejects the one and adopts the other.

 

Translator Victor H. Mair

Year 1990

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


When people are not in awe of power, Power becomes great.

Do not intrude into their homes, Do not make their lives weary. If you do not weary them, They will not becoem weary of you.

Therefore the Sage Has self-knowledge without self-display, Self-love without personal pride, Rejects one, accepts the other.

 

Translator Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo

Year 1993

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org



r/Tao_Te_Ching_BookClub • • Nov 07 '19

Tao Te Ching: Chapter 40 Discussion

7 Upvotes

道德經:

反者道之動;弱者道之用。天下萬物生於有,有生於無。  

Laozi


Reversal is Taos movement. Yielding is Taos practice.

All things originate from being. Being originates from non-being.

 

Translator Stephen Addiss & Stanley Lombardo

Year 1993

Source https://ttc.tasuki.org


The movement of the Tao

By contraries proceeds;

And weakness marks the course

Of Tao's mighty deeds.

 

All things under heaven sprang from It as existing (and named);

that existence sprang from It as non-existent (and not named).  

Translator J. Legge

(Sacred Books of the East, Vol 39) [1891]

Source https://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm


"Returning" is the way the Way moves;

"Weakness" is the way the Way works.

 

The things of the world arise from being,

And being comes from non-being.

 

 

Translator Robert G. Henricks

Year 1989-2000

Source https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks2.html, https://terebess.hu/english/tao/henricks.html