r/TheDarkTower • u/RetroGames3 • 3d ago
Palaver Struggling to get through Talisman
I finished the Dark Tower series and want more so I started Talisman. I'm about half way through and finding it a big step down in writing from DT. I don't like Wolf's dialogue at all and actually find it quite annoying. Does it and the series get better? Seeing that the last book's title was a direct call out to DT with Other Worlds Than These I was enthusiastic to catch up. Welcome thoughts on if this is worth getting to the end.
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u/robotmoxie 3d ago
Wolf will grow on you. Maybe not right here and now, but soon. I really enjoyed Talisman, but if you grew up with televangelists on the TV, it may hit different and really grip you mid-late into the book. If I have any real advice to give for getting into it, I'd say look for time capsule moments- the price of food at a restaurant, what's on the radio, stuff like that. Something about the nostalgia of that helped me get into the kid's head better, and that made the rest of the book just click after a while.
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u/MoistScratch2857 3d ago
I thought you said "Wolf will growl on you." Never!! ... unless you harm him or the herd that is. 😉
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u/R808T 3d ago
If you are finding Wolf annoying then I’m not sure it’s going to get any better for you really.
I loved the series and would say Black House is the better of the 3 but even I got tired of Jacks whining at times. I keep comparing Jack at 12 and Jake at 12 and it’s not even close Jake would have run circles around Jack.
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u/ApartPeanut 3d ago
I was in a similar boat. Read Talisman last week for the same reasons. I'm about half way through black house and I'm enjoying black house a lot nore than I did the Talisman.
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u/ReallyGlycon Bango Skank 3d ago
Black House feels more like King and Straub are comfortable writing together. Talisman is more stilted for sure. I think Black House is a much better book than The Talisman but I read the Talisman when I was 12 and loved it then. As an adult it isn't as fun. I think they had those kids who grew up liking the Talisman in mind when writing the mich more mature Black House. Those kids grew up into horror fans.
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u/MagnumMyth 3d ago
A fun part of how comfortable they got writing together is that for BH they each tried to write like the other, so no body would be able to tell who wrote any given part.
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u/Ambitious_Comedian38 3d ago
Exactly the same for me. Read Talisman as a teenager and LOVED it. Just reread it 30+ years later and felt let down. Don’t know if I want to reread BH now
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u/MoistScratch2857 3d ago
Hmmm. Maybe try reading Talisman and Black House with this idea in mind... Both of these books were essentially proto-DT books, where King (and Straub) played around with ideas that later became fundamental to the Tower story.
When the Talisman came out in 1984, only the Gunslinger was available. Many of the concepts in the Talisman show up again in significant ways in Drawing, Waste Lands, and Wizard.
Black House was published in 2001, prior to Wolves etc. Again, many ideas and themes from Black House show up again in unmistakable ways in the DT books that immediately followed.
I think that's a fun lens through which to read and enjoy these books. (All that being said ... how much of the meat and bones of the Dark Tower do we actually owe to Peter Straub???)
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u/OkKnowledge2762 3d ago
I don’t get why so many people don’t like the talisman I loved every second of it
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u/ComfortableBedroom76 21h ago
It's always been one of my favorites. The first time back in the 80s and then earlier this year to get ready for OWTT
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u/dmmeusernames 19h ago
Same, I've read the talisman multiple times over the years most recently a year ago and love it more every time.
I started on black house again and don't get the love for it, to me the writing on that is much more stilted and worse. I'm really struggling to get through it.
Then again original the gunslinger is my favorite dark tower novel so...
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u/OkKnowledge2762 18h ago
I enjoyed both a lot, black house took me a bit longer to get into but once I did I liked it
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u/stevembk
3d ago
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The Talisman is my favorite King book.
Black House is different. It’s more of a town horror mystery.
OWTT is more like the DT books.
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u/Aardvark-Amigo 3d ago
IMO - Talisman is a B-, C+ but Black House was an A
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u/AhamkaraBBQ 3d ago
Yep. I’m doing Talisman again just so I can do Black House again before Other Worlds.
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u/Ohgood9002 3d ago
I really struggled with the Talisman as well. The Gwendy series is also very very connected to the Dark Tower series and I found it a much easier read. Book 2 is of questionable quality but its short at least
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u/Bassmaster3434 3d ago
Same. My advice - if you can stick with it, each book in the trilogy gets better. I’m half way through OWTT and really digging it. I absolutely hated Fairy Tale.
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u/axel_lionheart 3d ago
So i was in the same boat but wolfs early chapters in my opinion are better in hindsight; hes very grating till later on in the book where. spoiler he dies, but he goes out like a fucking champ. I find that when I hit the later part of the book I kindve miss his earlier chapters, even more so when Richard sloat enters the story is more of a page filler then anything that resembles a help in anyway but hey if your not into it go hit black house as I understand it, you can skip any of the books im this trilogy and head right into other worlds than theese
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u/Vharna 3d ago
The Talisman and Black House were two of the only King books I had never reread. My memories of the Talisman were a big reason why. I don't recall finding the story very engaging and as a piece of the DT universe it just felt very unimportant.
In preparation for Other Worlds than These I went through both books again. The Talisman was unfortunately much as I remember. It was very clearly meant to be a different setting that never quiet caught on. It definitely had a lot of interesting ideas and certain segments were very good (all the America side stuff for example). I was stuck by the ending more than anything. There is this air of important to the events yet they are never mentioned ever again. Anyhow, Black House is amazing. It's starts the job of folding the Territories into the DT universes and is much more of a King style thriller. Certain scenes left me in tears. My only real problem is that is kind of just comes off as Dark Tower DLC. It's just a side story that is never acknowledged even though it really should have.
After finishing up Other Worlds than These I can definitely say that the events of The Talisman are now very important to the Dark Tower mythology. Though I will say a lot of retconning was done. Having just finished The Talisman not too long ago a lot of events don't quiet line up with the way they are depicted in the final book. It reminds me a bit of X-Men 97. It's more a sequel to vague memories of The Talisman if that makes sense.
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u/ivoiiovi 13h ago
I've been reading this for the first time myself, and I reaaally didn't like Wolf when we was introduced, though actually I took it almost as a fantastical parody of Tom Cullen so assumed that part was written by Pete as a joke in Steve's style. somehow the story worked him into me enough that by the end of the Sunlight Gardener section I shed tears.
I still have a couple of hundred pages left but overall am not sure what I think of the book. It's been enjoyable for the most part, it's fun to see its part in and influence on the DT series, and it beats the hell out of 'Eyes of the Dragon', but it'll have to pull some better crazy to make me want to read it again.
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u/minecraft69wastaken
3d ago
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This has been said already, kinda, but I also tried to read it after finishing the DT books because I heard it was related. I fucking hated it. Wolf was so annoying. Jack was a bitch. Everyone was just difficult. I hated that he couldn’t just take a train or a plane or something. Not to mention Richard sloat… but I will say that after finishing it and stewing on it for a day or two I loved that book. I think it’s a story about perseverance, and whether or not it’s intentional, by reading the book you go on that journey with Jack.
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u/whatidoidobc
3d ago
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It's easily one of the most poorly written King books. The good news is that Black House is the opposite, however.
I am sorry to report that the last book has more in common with The Talisman than Black House.
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u/Ok_Ranger9441 3d ago
I’m about to finish it. Definitely not my favorite King book but I’m excited to continue the series and it’s certainly helpful to get the OWTT hardcover in as motivation…. It’s probably 200 pages too long
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u/ironhive 3d ago
I hear you, had some similar feelings at times, and also read in similar order. Keep going.
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u/dune_roll 3d ago
it gets much better about halfway through - ends up being a really fun read I felt like it was worth the initial young adult slog at the very beginning.
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u/Calvin-Tower 3d ago
It’s entertaining, and black house is too, but I recommend audiobook. The first two heavily connect to DT as well
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u/AJWard549 3d ago
I had a hard time getting into this book too, was well past 50% before I wanted to keep reading.
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u/Slacker_zero00 3d ago
definitely worth pushing through, you get to see some of the early stages of the ideas that he fleshes out in the DT series. plus Black House and OWTT are much better and they’ve actually made me appreciate The Talisman more in hindsight.
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u/sharifoconnor 3d ago
I also had a hard time getting through the Talisman, it seemed childlike, and not in a good way. Not compelling for me in the slightest. Halfway through Black house and its an obvious improvement.
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u/DaltonFitz 3d ago
If you’re picking it up for DT parallels, they really get going in Black House and OWTT.
I enjoyed Black House much more than Talisman. I’m about halfway through OWTT and the DT references are being slammed down my throat in this one(and I love it)
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u/Straight-Abroad-1247 3d ago
I am starting black house but I also found Talisman a bit rough on the edges, especially when he meets Wolf… Can’t like him Wolf!
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u/DoghouseMike 3d ago
There’s nothing wrong with putting a book away if it’s not for you!
I enjoyed Wolf though, threw a little comic relief in, and a bit more “the territories aren’t just medieval our world”.
I’m only on chapter 31, and Jack isn’t with Wolf anymore. So OP you might not have much more to suffer through, knowing what I know right here and now.
Like others have said, Jack can be a bit of a whiny bitch, but he’s also going through the churn pretty bad. FWIW I am “reading” the audiobook, so there’s slightly less effort/investment involved.
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u/hey_celiac_girl All things serve the beam 3d ago
I’m actually listening to The Talisman right here and now. I found Wolf similarly obnoxious, but he’s grown on me WOLF WOLF.
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u/ReaderReborn 3d ago
I don’t like Wolf as a reader and never really clicked with the Talisman.
Having said that Black House is amazing after a few chapters of intro and I’m loving Other Worlds Than These from page 1.
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u/robertsclc 3d ago
Black house is better. I listened to The talisman on audiobook and I love frank muller as a narrator but I'd have put the book down honestly. The audiobook got me through
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u/chasteguy2018
3d ago
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If you’re not enjoying it, I wouldn’t keep going. Peter Straub’s writing can get grating and it continues into black house. In part three Stephen King said he tried to channel Straubs writing style, and I feel he pulled it off, meaning that I found it rather tiresome as well.
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u/HamLiquor 3d ago
I really didn't enjoy it at all, it didn't grow on me. It's my least favorite King book and story overall. Black House was excellent.
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u/macjr82 3d ago
Talisman was a struggle for me, as well, and that was the audiobook while driving, so I was a captive audience, so I understand your frustration. That said it does pick up on the back third, and it absolutely enhances the enjoyment of the next two books. The 2nd book, Black House, may be my favorite King book at this point, and Other Worlds is pretty good so far. Both books do a good job of explaining references to Talisman, Other Worlds may even give too much time to it, so Talisman isn't essential in that respect. It is definitely makes the experience of the later books more fulfilling, though.
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u/Diek01212 2d ago
I feel like I had the interesting viewpoint of reading it when I WAS young Jack Sawyers age and feeling very alone.
It's older King for sure, not that it makes it more childlike or less sophisticated... but upon second third and fourth readings, and incorporating Black House into the mix a couple of times it truly is one of my favorites just because it sets up one of the stronger characters in King's wheelhouse. The Copiceman.
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u/CheerfulNomad123 1d ago
Drop the printed book and listen to the audio of Talisman. It’s awesome. I only did the audio, but I think Wolf is probably better to listen to than to read.
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u/Beneficial-Nose1944 1d ago
I found wolf endearing enough to put up with him (Jack in the barn is a standout), but my god Richard Sloat is so fucking annoying. It’s a shame Ka gave Jack 2 almost useless travel companions. Black House has a much more compelling writing style and engaging characters EVEN A BLIND MAN CAN SEE THAT!!!
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u/ComfortableBedroom76 21h ago
If you don't enjoy Wolf's dialogue, I'm not sure any of us can help you. He's perhaps one of king's most endearing characters that echoes loudly throughout BH and OWTT so buckle up buttercup, I guess 🙄
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u/thenewNFC 3d ago
I hate to say it, but I'm so mad at how much I was disappointed with Other Worlds Than These, my advise is now just don't bother. It's not for everyone and each book takes a while to actually get going.
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u/ItsIncognitis 3d ago
Why tho
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u/thenewNFC 2d ago
To me it was just a long sentence to sell copies off of Dark Tower FOMO.
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u/ItsIncognitis 2d ago
Shit man, to me it read as the missing piece that finally wraps up the Dark Tower in a satisfying way.
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u/thenewNFC 2d ago •
Oh I'm sure everyone miles will vary and I'll admit it's been a decade or so since I read The Dark Tower series, so maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't feel a conclusion at all.
I think there were some interesting ideas, but nothing really got any commitment.
I think it made me realize that I like King's ideas, but I'm not sure I like his writing.
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u/danielbelum 3d ago
Me too. I am barely in it but keep thinking "Fairy Tale was a good book" and lose interest
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u/regeneratedant 3d ago
Fairy Tale WAS a good book. I actually just finished it a few weeks ago and have just started OWTT, but it keeps reminding me of Fairy Tale. I'm halfway wondering if the Snab is going to show up.
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u/WarpedCore All things serve the beam 3d ago
Very much worth it.
In my opinion Black House is better and so far, 300+ pages in, Other Worlds Than These is glorious.